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  • paul.w5lz
    I ve been asked to help set up a series of weather stations. There will be 10 - 11 of them sending information back to a central location and using APRSIS32
    Message 1 of 6 , Jun 6, 2014
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      I've been asked to help set up a series of weather stations.  There will be 10 - 11 of them sending information back to a central location and using APRSIS32 to display that information.  That information will also be sent to the NWS via another system.  I think I know how to set up the weather stations and transmit the information, but am not sure how to set up APRSIS32.  The 'plan' is to also track watchers and combine their position reports with that from the weather stations.  So, how do I go ablut 'combining' the two sets of data, or can it be done at all?
      This is more a 'proposed' thing than actual right this minute.  More research is needed and that's what this question is.
       - 'Doc
    • James Ewen
      On Fri, Jun 6, 2014 at 3:32 PM, paul.w5lz@yahoo.com [aprsisce] ... How will you be using APRSISCE/32 to display the information? I don t really care about
      Message 2 of 6 , Jun 6, 2014
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        On Fri, Jun 6, 2014 at 3:32 PM, paul.w5lz@... [aprsisce]
        <aprsisce@yahoogroups.com> wrote:

        > I've been asked to help set up a series of weather stations. There will be 10 - 11
        > of them sending information back to a central location and using APRSIS32 to
        > display that information.

        How will you be using APRSISCE/32 to display the information? I don't
        really care about weather stations, and thankfully we have very few
        around here cluttering up the airwaves, but I don't think there's not
        really much in the way of display capability built into APRSISCE/32.
        All I can find is a line of text telling you the data when you left
        click on the WX station. Unless you are talking about putting labels
        on the station and showing weather barbs... that's a display, I guess.

        > I think I know how to set up the weather stations and transmit the information,
        > but am not sure how to set up APRSIS32.

        http://aprsisce.wikidot.com/initial-startup

        > The 'plan' is to also track watchers and combine their position reports
        > with that from the weather stations.

        What are watchers? Are you talking about Skywarn severe weather chasers?

        If this is the case, it doesn't make sense to combine a location of
        one asset with information from another asset.

        > So, how do I go ablut 'combining' the two sets of data, or can it be done at all?

        Describe what it is that you are attempting to do so we can understand
        what it is you want. From there we might be able to provide
        instruction as to how to achieve what you want, or at the very least
        tell you it is not feasible.

        > This is more a 'proposed' thing than actual right this minute. More research is
        > needed and that's what this question is.

        When you come up with a final concept plan after you research what it
        is that you want, spell it out here, and we can see if we can help you
        make APRSISCE/32 show you what you want.

        --
        James
        VE6SRV
      • Lynn W Deffenbaugh (Mr)
        James, You mean you ve never turned on Screen / Labels / Weather? Then you don t have to click on the station to get the latest temperature and wind
        Message 3 of 6 , Jun 6, 2014
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        James,

        You mean you've never turned on Screen / Labels / Weather?  Then you don't have to click on the station to get the latest temperature and wind information.  The remainder of whatever is available is in the station detail popup.



        AF4EX via T2SJC+
        .weewx-2.0.0rc1-Vantage

        Sym: WX Service (/_)
        Temp: 77ºF
        Wind: 0mph SSW (Gust:1)
        Rain(in): 0.00/hr 0.00/24h 0.00(today)
        Bar: 29.98in Hum: 87%
        Unit: UnknownP(.weew)

        App: Generic APRS
        I: 4 12 12 12 12 12 12 14
        FromCtr: 0.24mi WNW
        FromME: 3.76mi NW (323º)
        GridSquare: EL98pa
        2802.45N 08041.72W
        Time: 00-07 03:10:00z
        2014-06-07 03:10:16 (2m39s)
        TCPIP*
        TCP


        Lynn (D) - KJ4ERJ - Author of APRSISCE for Windows Mobile and Win32



        On 6/6/2014 7:51 PM, James Ewen ve6srv@... [aprsisce] wrote:
        How will you be using APRSISCE/32 to display the information? I don't really care about weather stations, and thankfully we have very few around here cluttering up the airwaves, but I don't think there's not really much in the way of display capability built into APRSISCE/32. All I can find is a line of text telling you the data when you left click on the WX station. Unless you are talking about putting labels on the station and showing weather barbs... that's a display, I guess.

      • James Ewen
        On Fri, Jun 6, 2014 at 9:13 PM, Lynn W Deffenbaugh (Mr) ... Yes, I have. ... Maybe what he s after is a map with the weather stations on it, and the storm
        Message 4 of 6 , Jun 6, 2014
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          On Fri, Jun 6, 2014 at 9:13 PM, 'Lynn W Deffenbaugh (Mr)'
          kj4erj@... [aprsisce] <aprsisce@yahoogroups.com> wrote:

          > You mean you've never turned on Screen / Labels / Weather?

          Yes, I have.

          >> Unless you are talking about putting labels on the station and showing
          >> weather barbs... that's a display, I guess.

          Maybe what he's after is a map with the weather stations on it, and
          the storm chasers plotted on it...

          You could do that with !SHRIEKS! and limit the display to only the
          stations you're after.

          Once Paul figures out what it is he's after, we can start figuring out
          how to do what he wants.

          --
          James
          VE6SRV
        • paul.w5lz
          For a little clarification... The local EOC plots the position of watchers during storms. That provides more information about where observations are made and
          Message 5 of 6 , Jun 8, 2014
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            For a little clarification...
            The local EOC plots the position of watchers during storms.  That provides more information about where observations are made and simplifies things.  Not all of the watchers have the instrumentation (winds speed, direction, all that) in their vehicles to provide meaningful 'numbers'.  One solution is to have fixed reporting WX stations.  That, in addition to the things being reported by watchers can tell you a lot. 
            The idea is to combine those two sources of information into one so that a completely 'new' system for displaying that information isn't required.  One method of doing that is just like others do that, on APRS.  It could be disruptive, cluttering things up, but there are certainly alternatives (separate freq, for one).
            This is a 'brainstorming' type thingy at present.  There are a lot of other things in the 'mix', and it's not a huge 'thing' at present.  A 'it can be done, but should it be done' thingy...
             - Doc / Paul
          • James Ewen
            On Sun, Jun 8, 2014 at 6:56 AM, paul.w5lz@yahoo.com [aprsisce]
            Message 6 of 6 , Jun 8, 2014
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              On Sun, Jun 8, 2014 at 6:56 AM, paul.w5lz@... [aprsisce] <aprsisce@yahoogroups.com> wrote:

              > The local EOC plots the position of watchers during storms.  That provides
              > more information about where observations are made and simplifies things.
              > Not all of the watchers have the instrumentation (winds speed, direction,
              > all that) in their vehicles to provide meaningful 'numbers'.  One solution is to
              > have fixed reporting WX stations.  That, in addition to the things being
              > reported by watchers can tell you a lot.
              > The idea is to combine those two sources of information into one so that a
              > completely 'new' system for displaying that information isn't required.
              > One method of doing that is just like others do that, on APRS.

              So you're just looking to display weather stations and active Skywarn observers on a map.

              > It could be disruptive, cluttering things up, but there are certainly
              > alternatives (separate freq, for one).

              Disruptive to who? Just to your local APRS channel?

              10 weather stations in Pittsburgh County (I'm going to assume this is a local initiative) would be a fairly dense network, but the load these stations present on the local network depends upon how you set them up.

              This weather information is of utmost importance to you and your served agency/area. People 100 miles away aren't as interested in the information as you are, but could probably make use of your information. Those further away can always observe the data via the APRS-IS.

              APRS is all about providing LOCAL tactical information. Note the emphasis on LOCAL. That's probably the most important concept that gets missed in designing APRS system operational characteristics.

              Currently, your packets are having to travel about 80 miles to the north or the east to get to an i-gate. You are using one or 2 hops to get to those i-gates. That makes your station part of the LOCAL network for both of those i-gates. If you add in 10 weather stations that are going to become part of both of those local networks, you're going to add a significant amount of traffic into both those areas.

              You can see how many packets these i-gates are already handling per month. BTW, since these reports are based on the heavily filtered APRS-IS feed, these numbers are well below what these i-gates actually see.

              Inline image 1 
              Inline image 2

              If you set up 10 weather stations, each providing 1 WX report every 10 minutes, that's an additional packet per minute being added to the LOCAL network. That's not much, right? 1 packet per minute, 60 packets an hour, 1440 packets per day, 43,200 packets every 30 days. Now we have to account for the WX stations sending the packets out via digipeaters... If they all just hit the local digipeater W5CUQ, that now becomes 86,400 packets that can be heard just in McAlester. But, W5CUQ can be heard by these digipeaters:

              W5NGU-4,N5ADA,N5SOR-1,NB5B-2,WB0VTM-7,SOKC,KA4BNI-5,K5FRC-7,STLWTR,W5DBK-5,WA5VXI,N5SOR-4,W5BEC-5,KTCHM,N5TEQ-10,CLRWTR,MTMAG,AB5CC-2,WHTNY,K5CS-12,W5LHG,W5NGU-3,KK5PP-3,AF5I-1,KEETON,KF5OEB-1,MOUNDS,WD5MHZ-1, and POTEAU (pulled from http://aprs.fi/info/a/W5CUQ May 2014)

              29 digipeaters, but some of those might have been propagation anomalies... let's drop down to only digipeaters that have been able to report heaing W5CUQ at least 10 times in the month. That gives us 9 digipeaters. So, if the WX stations are using WIDE2-2 to get to the closest i-gates reliably, you'll be bouncing through W5CUQ, and ALL of those 9 other digipeaters. That then repeats those 86,400 packets another 777,600 times. Then you need to factor in the possibility that the WX stations might get picked up directly by a different digipeater than W5CUQ on the first hop, where you'll have to figure out how many digipeaters will hear and act upon that second hop from there.

              So, you can see that you can have a huge impact on the LOCAL RF network, which in fact can be a very large area. So, does that mean you can't install these WX stations? Nope, that's not the case, but you need to consider their impact. So what can be done to lessen the impact? Well, where did the numbers explode above? It got really big on that second digipeater hop because of the number of digipeaters being activated. So what can be done to lessen that impact? How about dropping the number of hops requested down to a single digipeater hop? So now only W5CUQ (or other close by digipeaters) will act upon the WX packets, distributing them around Pittsburg County, and other neighboring areas. Will those packets get to the APRS-IS reliably now? Maybe, maybe not... do you care? If delivering them to the APRS-IS reliably is a concern, then the simple solution is to add an i-gate into McAlester to feed the data to the APRS-IS.

              You get your 10 WX stations, you get the data you want, and you deliver that data to the APRS-IS, all with minimal impact on your LOCAL APRS network. The same thing applies to your local SKYWARN weather spotters... when they are out and about, having an i-gate locally located will help get their packets to the APRS-IS for remote viewing.

              Not only does getting the packets to the APRS-IS allow you to view the data on sites like aprs.fi, but it will also ensure delivery of the data to your observing stations running APRSISCE/32 if they are tied into the web as well as RF.

              So, the moral of the story? Add assets to your local APRS network, but don't flood the neighbors with all your data. Make noise, but keep it local. The higher the traffic density, the closer to home you have to restrict the noise.

              -- 
              James
              VE6SRV
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