Loading ...
Sorry, an error occurred while loading the content.

APRS message sent seemingly correctly but not registered on the Kenwood TH D7

Expand Messages
  • derek.elias@btinternet.com
    Not exactly on APRSISCE but maybe someone has an idea. We have built a transmitter to go into a balloon. We checked the APRS messages from the transmitter by
    Message 1 of 8 , Feb 6 3:08 PM
    • 0 Attachment
      Not exactly on APRSISCE but maybe someone has an idea. We have built a transmitter to go into a balloon. We checked the APRS messages from the transmitter by connecting the Kenwood to a pc and used a terminal emulator called Putty.

      Then an APRS message was sent from the transmitter to the Kenwood and then via the pc to the emulator. The message showed that up correctly on the emulator program. The message had included position info but this did not show but the call sign and some other descriptive script showed correctly.

      So the message was recognised by the Kenwood as an APRS message. However when we disconnected the Kenwood from the pc and again sent the message it would not register as a received message and be stored by the Kenwood. From the sound in the Kenwood though it was clear that some signal was received. We did of course take the Kenwood out of PACKET mode and return it to data mode before trying to receive the message.

      We are very puzzled by this and wonder if anyone has an idea. We are assuming that we must be leaving something off the APRS message. Having studied APRS101 though we can't figure it out. Would anyone have any ideas. 73 from Derek
    • Keith VE7GDH
      Derek (M6CYT?) wrote... ... What was the callsign-SSID of the station sending the APRS messages? Perhaps they were sent from a callsign other than M6CYT. Did
      Message 2 of 8 , Feb 6 4:27 PM
      • 0 Attachment
        Derek (M6CYT?) wrote...

        > So the message was recognised by the Kenwood as an APRS
        > message. However when we disconnected the Kenwood from
        > the pc and again sent the message it would not register as a
        > received message and be stored by the Kenwood...

        What was the callsign-SSID of the station sending the APRS
        messages? Perhaps they were sent from a callsign other than
        M6CYT. Did they make it to the APRS-IS... i.e. did they make
        it to an IGate?

        73 es cul - Keith VE7GDH
        www.ui-view.org
        --
        "I may be lost, but I know exactly where I am!"
      • James Ewen
        On Thu, Feb 6, 2014 at 4:08 PM, derek.elias@btinternet.com ... Can you copy the packet into an email message and share it with us? ... So did the message show
        Message 3 of 8 , Feb 6 7:35 PM
        • 0 Attachment
          On Thu, Feb 6, 2014 at 4:08 PM, derek.elias@...
          <derek.elias@...> wrote:

          > The message showed that up correctly on the emulator program.

          Can you copy the packet into an email message and share it with us?

          > The message had included position info but this did not show but
          > the call sign and some other descriptive script showed correctly.

          So did the message show up correctly as stated in the first sentence,
          or was it missing pieces as you describe in the second sentence? You
          can't have it both ways. Either it was correctly received, or it
          wasn't correctly received.

          > So the message was recognised by the Kenwood as an APRS message.

          Was the packet actually an APRS message, or was it a different type of
          APRS packet such as a position report?

          > We are very puzzled by this and wonder if anyone has an idea.

          Collectively, we probably have a few million ideas... I can probably
          come up with a few thousand specifically related to APRS and your
          packet problem, and a couple hundred thousand about things totally
          unrelated.

          > We are assuming that we must be leaving something off the APRS message.

          That's a good assumption.

          > Having studied APRS101 though we can't figure it out. Would anyone have
          > any ideas.

          Still have that offer for a few million ideas on the table from the offer above.

          If you were to provide something other than nebulous, vague queries,
          we could provide more than just totally useless responses...

          Sorry if this answer is a little obtuse, I've been chasing around this
          tree at work for 3 days...

          Project Manager: "How long will it take you to install this
          communications system?"

          Me: "What does the full project entail?"

          Project Manager: "We're not really sure... it's some kind of
          communications system."

          Me: "It could take an hour, it could take months."

          Project Manager: "That's not very helpful, can't you be a little more precise?"


          Derek, please help us help you by providing more information

          --
          James
          VE6SRV
        • derek.elias@btinternet.com
          Well first thanks to James and Keith for very rapid replies to my call for help. I ve not been in this Yahoo Group for more than a a week and it s really
          Message 4 of 8 , Feb 7 2:59 PM
          • 0 Attachment
            Well first thanks to James and Keith for very rapid replies to my call for help. I've not been in this Yahoo Group for more than a a week and it's really fantastic the enthusiasm and help shown. It's a tough area for complete newbies and the help is much appreciated.

            My son seems to have come up with the solution. Being new we hadn't realised that eg position data has to be compressed via Mic-E (page 44 APRS101). We had seen this strange stuff from the Kenwood but not understood it. When we converted our position data from the balloon transmitter into the compressed form it worked. It sounds stupid but we were amazed. You shall go to the ball as the fairy said in Cinderella. So we will have something to take to GPSL in Kansas in June. If you've never been to a balloon hunt it's great fun. The GPSL in Pella Iowa last year was great fun.
            So thanks again. Best regards 73 Derek

            --- In aprsisce@yahoogroups.com, James Ewen <ve6srv@...> wrote:
            >
            > On Thu, Feb 6, 2014 at 4:08 PM, derek.elias@...
            > <derek.elias@...> wrote:
            >
            > > The message showed that up correctly on the emulator program.
            >
            > Can you copy the packet into an email message and share it with us?
            >
            > > The message had included position info but this did not show but
            > > the call sign and some other descriptive script showed correctly.
            >
            > So did the message show up correctly as stated in the first sentence,
            > or was it missing pieces as you describe in the second sentence? You
            > can't have it both ways. Either it was correctly received, or it
            > wasn't correctly received.
            >
            > > So the message was recognised by the Kenwood as an APRS message.
            >
            > Was the packet actually an APRS message, or was it a different type of
            > APRS packet such as a position report?
            >
            > > We are very puzzled by this and wonder if anyone has an idea.
            >
            > Collectively, we probably have a few million ideas... I can probably
            > come up with a few thousand specifically related to APRS and your
            > packet problem, and a couple hundred thousand about things totally
            > unrelated.
            >
            > > We are assuming that we must be leaving something off the APRS message.
            >
            > That's a good assumption.
            >
            > > Having studied APRS101 though we can't figure it out. Would anyone have
            > > any ideas.
            >
            > Still have that offer for a few million ideas on the table from the offer above.
            >
            > If you were to provide something other than nebulous, vague queries,
            > we could provide more than just totally useless responses...
            >
            > Sorry if this answer is a little obtuse, I've been chasing around this
            > tree at work for 3 days...
            >
            > Project Manager: "How long will it take you to install this
            > communications system?"
            >
            > Me: "What does the full project entail?"
            >
            > Project Manager: "We're not really sure... it's some kind of
            > communications system."
            >
            > Me: "It could take an hour, it could take months."
            >
            > Project Manager: "That's not very helpful, can't you be a little more precise?"
            >
            >
            > Derek, please help us help you by providing more information
            >
            > --
            > James
            > VE6SRV
            >
          • derek.elias@btinternet.com
            Well first thanks to James and Keith for very rapid replies to my call for help. I ve not been in this Yahoo Group for more than a a week and it s really
            Message 5 of 8 , Feb 7 3:00 PM
            • 0 Attachment
              Well first thanks to James and Keith for very rapid replies to my call for help. I've not been in this Yahoo Group for more than a a week and it's really fantastic the enthusiasm and help shown. It's a tough area for complete newbies and the help is much appreciated.

              My son seems to have come up with the solution. Being new we hadn't realised that eg position data has to be compressed via Mic-E (page 44 APRS101). We had seen this strange stuff from the Kenwood but not understood it. When we converted our position data from the balloon transmitter into the compressed form it worked. It sounds stupid but we were amazed. You shall go to the ball as the fairy said in Cinderella. So we will have something to take to GPSL in Kansas in June. If you've never been to a balloon hunt it's great fun. The GPSL in Pella Iowa last year was great fun.
              So thanks again. Best regards 73 Derek

              --- In aprsisce@yahoogroups.com, "Keith VE7GDH" <ve7gdh@...> wrote:
              >
              > Derek (M6CYT?) wrote...
              >
              > > So the message was recognised by the Kenwood as an APRS
              > > message. However when we disconnected the Kenwood from
              > > the pc and again sent the message it would not register as a
              > > received message and be stored by the Kenwood...
              >
              > What was the callsign-SSID of the station sending the APRS
              > messages? Perhaps they were sent from a callsign other than
              > M6CYT. Did they make it to the APRS-IS... i.e. did they make
              > it to an IGate?
              >
              > 73 es cul - Keith VE7GDH
              > www.ui-view.org
              > --
              > "I may be lost, but I know exactly where I am!"
              >
            • Lynn W Deffenbaugh (Mr)
              You don t have to convert to Mic-E, but that s one of the formatting options. You only need to make sure that the packets you are transmitting are fully
              Message 6 of 8 , Feb 7 3:05 PM
              • 0 Attachment
                You don't have to convert to Mic-E, but that's one of the formatting
                options. You only need to make sure that the packets you are
                transmitting are fully formed according to one of the formats in
                aprs101.pdf. Any deviation, no matter how slight, will cause your
                packet to be QRM on the channel. You'll still see it if you directly
                connect to the TNC, because it's valid AX.25 data on the air, but no
                APRS program or radio will be able to understand it.

                Lynn (D) - KJ4ERJ - Author of APRSISCE for Windows Mobile and Win32

                On 2/7/2014 6:00 PM, derek.elias@... wrote:
                > Well first thanks to James and Keith for very rapid replies to my call for help. I've not been in this Yahoo Group for more than a a week and it's really fantastic the enthusiasm and help shown. It's a tough area for complete newbies and the help is much appreciated.
                >
                > My son seems to have come up with the solution. Being new we hadn't realised that eg position data has to be compressed via Mic-E (page 44 APRS101). We had seen this strange stuff from the Kenwood but not understood it. When we converted our position data from the balloon transmitter into the compressed form it worked. It sounds stupid but we were amazed. You shall go to the ball as the fairy said in Cinderella. So we will have something to take to GPSL in Kansas in June. If you've never been to a balloon hunt it's great fun. The GPSL in Pella Iowa last year was great fun.
                > So thanks again. Best regards 73 Derek
                >
                > --- In aprsisce@yahoogroups.com, "Keith VE7GDH" <ve7gdh@...> wrote:
                >> Derek (M6CYT?) wrote...
                >>
                >>> So the message was recognised by the Kenwood as an APRS
                >>> message. However when we disconnected the Kenwood from
                >>> the pc and again sent the message it would not register as a
                >>> received message and be stored by the Kenwood...
                >> What was the callsign-SSID of the station sending the APRS
                >> messages? Perhaps they were sent from a callsign other than
                >> M6CYT. Did they make it to the APRS-IS... i.e. did they make
                >> it to an IGate?
                >>
                >> 73 es cul - Keith VE7GDH
                >> www.ui-view.org
                >> --
                >> "I may be lost, but I know exactly where I am!"
                >>
                >
                >
                >
                > ------------------------------------
                >
                > Yahoo Groups Links
                >
                >
                >
                >
              • derek.elias@btinternet.com
                Lynn Thank you once again. regards and 73 Derek
                Message 7 of 8 , Feb 8 5:14 AM
                • 0 Attachment
                  Lynn Thank you once again.
                  regards and 73 Derek

                  --- In aprsisce@yahoogroups.com, "Lynn W Deffenbaugh (Mr)" <kj4erj@...> wrote:
                  >
                  > You don't have to convert to Mic-E, but that's one of the formatting
                  > options. You only need to make sure that the packets you are
                  > transmitting are fully formed according to one of the formats in
                  > aprs101.pdf. Any deviation, no matter how slight, will cause your
                  > packet to be QRM on the channel. You'll still see it if you directly
                  > connect to the TNC, because it's valid AX.25 data on the air, but no
                  > APRS program or radio will be able to understand it.
                  >
                  > Lynn (D) - KJ4ERJ - Author of APRSISCE for Windows Mobile and Win32
                  >
                  > On 2/7/2014 6:00 PM, derek.elias@... wrote:
                  > > Well first thanks to James and Keith for very rapid replies to my call for help. I've not been in this Yahoo Group for more than a a week and it's really fantastic the enthusiasm and help shown. It's a tough area for complete newbies and the help is much appreciated.
                  > >
                  > > My son seems to have come up with the solution. Being new we hadn't realised that eg position data has to be compressed via Mic-E (page 44 APRS101). We had seen this strange stuff from the Kenwood but not understood it. When we converted our position data from the balloon transmitter into the compressed form it worked. It sounds stupid but we were amazed. You shall go to the ball as the fairy said in Cinderella. So we will have something to take to GPSL in Kansas in June. If you've never been to a balloon hunt it's great fun. The GPSL in Pella Iowa last year was great fun.
                  > > So thanks again. Best regards 73 Derek
                  > >
                  > > --- In aprsisce@yahoogroups.com, "Keith VE7GDH" <ve7gdh@> wrote:
                  > >> Derek (M6CYT?) wrote...
                  > >>
                  > >>> So the message was recognised by the Kenwood as an APRS
                  > >>> message. However when we disconnected the Kenwood from
                  > >>> the pc and again sent the message it would not register as a
                  > >>> received message and be stored by the Kenwood...
                  > >> What was the callsign-SSID of the station sending the APRS
                  > >> messages? Perhaps they were sent from a callsign other than
                  > >> M6CYT. Did they make it to the APRS-IS... i.e. did they make
                  > >> it to an IGate?
                  > >>
                  > >> 73 es cul - Keith VE7GDH
                  > >> www.ui-view.org
                  > >> --
                  > >> "I may be lost, but I know exactly where I am!"
                  > >>
                  > >
                  > >
                  > >
                  > > ------------------------------------
                  > >
                  > > Yahoo Groups Links
                  > >
                  > >
                  > >
                  > >
                  >
                • derek.elias@btinternet.com
                  James Sorry if this goes twice. Not sure I clicked the right button before. Well I collected the logs. However the log from the Yaesu FT1DR to the Kenwood
                  Message 8 of 8 , Feb 15 10:45 AM
                  • 0 Attachment
                    James
                    Sorry if this goes twice. Not sure I clicked the right button before.
                    Well I collected the logs. However the log from the Yaesu FT1DR to the Kenwood (connected to the pc) is fine. However we are concerned that the log from the transmission from our balloon transmitter to the Kenwood won't be much use as nothing was registered as far as we know in APRSIS. These are the logs:

                    From the Yaesu which gave a position on APRSIS

                    WinMain:2014-02-13T21:04:05.684 Restore Saved Enable

                    WinMain:2014-02-13T21:04:13.152 Starting Port(Kat)

                    Port(Kat):2014-02-13T21:04:13.152 CpReader Running on COM5:9600,N,8,1 (6 OpenCmds, 4 CloseCmds)

                    Port(Kat):2014-02-13T21:04:13.152 Opening COM5:9600,N,8,1

                    Port(Kat):2014-02-13T21:04:13.152 Opening COM5 with 4 Args

                    Port(Kat):2014-02-13T21:04:13.183 COM5:Packet Length 64 Version 2

                    Port(Kat):2014-02-13T21:04:13.183 COM5:ServiceMask 0x1 Reserved1 0x0

                    Port(Kat):2014-02-13T21:04:13.183 COM5:MaxQueue Tx 0 Rx 0 Baud 268435456

                    Port(Kat):2014-02-13T21:04:13.183 COM5:Provider SubType 1 Capabilities 0xFF

                    Port(Kat):2014-02-13T21:04:13.183 COM5:Settable Params 127 Baud 0x1007FFFF Data 0xF StopParity 0x1F07

                    Port(Kat):2014-02-13T21:04:13.183 COM5:Current Queue Tx 0 Rx 4096

                    Port(Kat):2014-02-13T21:04:13.183 COM5:Provider Specifics 0x0 0x0

                    Port(Kat):2014-02-13T21:04:13.188 CpOpen:Port COM5 9600,N,8,1 !CTSFlow !DSRFlow !OutXon(2048) !InXoff(512) DTR_ENABLE !DSRSense RTS_ENABLE

                    Port(Kat):2014-02-13T21:04:13.188 Opened COM5:9600,N,8,1, Flushing 0 in TransmitQueue, Sending 6 OpenCmds

                    Port(Kat):2014-02-13T21:04:13.188 Command[3]:^M~

                    Port(Kat):2014-02-13T21:04:13.188 Output[1]:<0D>

                    Port(Kat):2014-02-13T21:04:13.210 CmdResp[6]:<0D 0A>cmd:

                    Port(Kat):2014-02-13T21:04:13.210 Command[3]:^M~

                    Port(Kat):2014-02-13T21:04:13.210 Output[1]:<0D>

                    Port(Kat):2014-02-13T21:04:13.230 CmdResp[6]:<0D 0A>cmd:

                    Port(Kat):2014-02-13T21:04:13.230 Command[9]:XFLOW OFF

                    Port(Kat):2014-02-13T21:04:13.230 Output[10]:XFLOW OFF<0D>

                    Port(Kat):2014-02-13T21:04:13.278 CmdResp[32]:XFLOW OFF<0D 0A>XFLOW    was ON<0D 0A>cmd:

                    Port(Kat):2014-02-13T21:04:13.278 Command[11]:FULLDUP OFF

                    Port(Kat):2014-02-13T21:04:13.278 Output[12]:FULLDUP OFF<0D>

                    Port(Kat):2014-02-13T21:04:13.317 CmdResp[22]:FULLDUP OFF<0D 0A>?EH<0D 0A>cmd:

                    Port(Kat):2014-02-13T21:04:13.317 Command[7]:KISS ON

                    Port(Kat):2014-02-13T21:04:13.317 Output[8]:KISS ON<0D>

                    Port(Kat):2014-02-13T21:04:13.364 CmdResp[31]:KISS ON<0D 0A>KISS     was OFF<0D 0A>cmd:

                    Port(Kat):2014-02-13T21:04:13.364 Command[7]:RESTART

                    Port(Kat):2014-02-13T21:04:13.364 Output[8]:RESTART<0D>

                    Port(Kat):2014-02-13T21:04:13.708 KISS:Missing Leading C0[9]:RESTART<0D 0A>

                    Port(Kat):2014-02-13T21:04:48.213 KISS:M6CYT-10>UQRUPP,WIDE1-1,WIDE2-1:`v0l [/`_$  (36)


                    From Our Balloon Transmitter (We may have let the log run on too long)

                    WinMain:2014-02-13T21:06:32.316 Restore Saved Enable

                    WinMain:2014-02-13T21:06:40.483 Starting Port(Kat)

                    Port(Kat):2014-02-13T21:06:40.484 CpReader Running on COM5:9600,N,8,1 (6 OpenCmds, 4 CloseCmds)

                    Port(Kat):2014-02-13T21:06:40.484 Opening COM5:9600,N,8,1

                    Port(Kat):2014-02-13T21:06:40.484 Opening COM5 with 4 Args

                    Port(Kat):2014-02-13T21:06:40.516 COM5:Packet Length 64 Version 2

                    Port(Kat):2014-02-13T21:06:40.516 COM5:ServiceMask 0x1 Reserved1 0x0

                    Port(Kat):2014-02-13T21:06:40.516 COM5:MaxQueue Tx 0 Rx 0 Baud 268435456

                    Port(Kat):2014-02-13T21:06:40.516 COM5:Provider SubType 1 Capabilities 0xFF

                    Port(Kat):2014-02-13T21:06:40.516 COM5:Settable Params 127 Baud 0x1007FFFF Data 0xF StopParity 0x1F07

                    Port(Kat):2014-02-13T21:06:40.516 COM5:Current Queue Tx 0 Rx 4096

                    Port(Kat):2014-02-13T21:06:40.516 COM5:Provider Specifics 0x0 0x0

                    Port(Kat):2014-02-13T21:06:40.523 CpOpen:Port COM5 9600,N,8,1 !CTSFlow !DSRFlow !OutXon(2048) !InXoff(512) DTR_ENABLE !DSRSense RTS_ENABLE

                    Port(Kat):2014-02-13T21:06:40.523 Opened COM5:9600,N,8,1, Flushing 0 in TransmitQueue, Sending 6 OpenCmds

                    Port(Kat):2014-02-13T21:06:40.523 Command[3]:^M~

                    Port(Kat):2014-02-13T21:06:40.523 Output[1]:<0D>

                    Port(Kat):2014-02-13T21:06:40.544 CmdResp[6]:<0D 0A>cmd:

                    Port(Kat):2014-02-13T21:06:40.544 Command[3]:^M~

                    Port(Kat):2014-02-13T21:06:40.544 Output[1]:<0D>

                    Port(Kat):2014-02-13T21:06:40.567 CmdResp[6]:<0D 0A>cmd:

                    Port(Kat):2014-02-13T21:06:40.567 Command[9]:XFLOW OFF

                    Port(Kat):2014-02-13T21:06:40.567 Output[10]:XFLOW OFF<0D>

                    Port(Kat):2014-02-13T21:06:40.616 CmdResp[32]:XFLOW OFF<0D 0A>XFLOW    was ON<0D 0A>cmd:

                    Port(Kat):2014-02-13T21:06:40.616 Command[11]:FULLDUP OFF

                    Port(Kat):2014-02-13T21:06:40.616 Output[12]:FULLDUP OFF<0D>

                    Port(Kat):2014-02-13T21:06:40.653 CmdResp[22]:FULLDUP OFF<0D 0A>?EH<0D 0A>cmd:

                    Port(Kat):2014-02-13T21:06:40.653 Command[7]:KISS ON

                    Port(Kat):2014-02-13T21:06:40.653 Output[8]:KISS ON<0D>

                    Port(Kat):2014-02-13T21:06:40.701 CmdResp[31]:KISS ON<0D 0A>KISS     was OFF<0D 0A>cmd:

                    Port(Kat):2014-02-13T21:06:40.701 Command[7]:RESTART

                    Port(Kat):2014-02-13T21:06:40.701 Output[8]:RESTART<0D>

                    Port(Kat):2014-02-13T21:06:41.045 KISS:Missing Leading C0[9]:RESTART<0D 0A>


                    So there is no message from the balloon. We also sent the balloon message through the Kenwood

                    to a terminal emulator. Here is the record from the balloon transmission which failed to make APRSIS respond.


                    21:17:12$ fm M6CYT-10 to UQRUP-0 via WIDE1-1,WIDE2-1 UI PID=F0

                    `v0l [/`_$


                    Obviously there is some difference eg the UI PID=F0 which we don't understand.


                    We had been thinking that we were not dealing with the audio frequencies for the 1's and 0's properly. We originally set the 1's at 1200hz and the 0's on 2400 hz. Someone commented to us that the frequencies should not be harmonics so we changed the 2400hz to 2200hz. We also played about with the emphasis between the frequencies but still no joy. Of course there is a wide range of possibilities for changing the emphasis and we were really just shooting in the dark as we weren't getting any useful info via APRSIS that we understood. 


                    So there it stands at the moment. We have been using a programmable chip in our transmitter which has allowed us to be flexible. We are now wondering if we shouldn't just get an Arduino, stick the GPS shield on it and download the software. But this goes against the grain a bit of producing your own product.


                    Any ideas would be gratefully received. I'll send this to Lynn too who has made some helpful comments.

                    best regards and 73

                    Derek


                  Your message has been successfully submitted and would be delivered to recipients shortly.