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Wingers

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  • Selwyn Staples
    All I am hearing is gimmy this ,gimmy that. And lot of personal comment that are off topic. You were given APRSIS32, a FREE PRODUCT, suck it up or shut up.
    Message 1 of 15 , Oct 14, 2013
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      All I am hearing is ‘gimmy this ,gimmy that. And lot of personal comment that are off topic.

       

      You were given APRSIS32, a FREE PRODUCT, suck it up or shut up. Stop winging

       

      Regards,

       

      Sel [zs6ss]

    • James Ewen
      ... One of the purposes of this forum is to be able to provide feedback to the program author. Some of that feedback is called requesting features, while other
      Message 2 of 15 , Oct 14, 2013
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        On Mon, Oct 14, 2013 at 11:17 PM, Selwyn Staples <zs6ss@...> wrote:

        > All I am hearing is ‘gimmy this ,gimmy that. And lot of personal comment
        > that are off topic.
        >
        > You were given APRSIS32, a FREE PRODUCT, suck it up or shut up. Stop winging

        One of the purposes of this forum is to be able to provide feedback to
        the program author. Some of that feedback is called requesting
        features, while other feedback can take the form of user responses to
        implementations.

        You may consider it whining, but it is an important part of building
        the best product available.

        Without user feedback, many of the features in APRSISCE/32 wouldn't
        exist, or would exist in a less "user-friendly" form.

        Yes, you could consider my continued desire for APRSISCE/32 to conform
        to the basic Windows user interface concepts such as a double click on
        a map requests a zoom in, and the arrow keys normally scroll the map
        to be whining, but maybe someday Lynn will allow us to custom map
        keystrokes to events so that APRSISCE/32 would become a more intuitive
        program to use than it currently is.

        If Lynn didn't want user feedback and input, he could simply shut down
        the forum, and program to his heart's content, never releasing another
        update of the application.

        There are still a lot of things that can be done to or added to
        APRSISCE/32 to increase it's performance and integration, and users
        asking for changes allows Lynn to gauge the number of people wanting
        specific features, or changes. I'll never stop wanting to be able to
        add in hill shading to my maps, it adds a great deal of information to
        the map in my opinion. Perhaps one day Lynn will find a trivial way to
        make it happen, and APRSISCE/32 will gain another feature!

        I think we all agree that Lynn is undercharging for the application a
        great deal, and that we appreciate the amount of work that it takes to
        make such a great application.

        Thanks again Lynn!

        --
        James
        VE6SRV
      • Lynn W Deffenbaugh (Mr)
        Selwyn, I don t mind people asking (and even re-asking) for features in APRSISCE/32. And people use different tones in their requests, this is human nature.
        Message 3 of 15 , Oct 15, 2013
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          Selwyn, I don't mind people asking (and even re-asking) for features in APRSISCE/32.  And people use different tones in their requests, this is human nature.  What one person intends as emphasis, another person considers whining (what's a winger anyway?  Google only turned up a rock band).  Put on your "somebody else's problem" (http://tinyurl.com/3g2jkex) glasses and poke delete if it bothers you.

          This group exists for multiple purposes, roughly in order of importance (to me, the group owner, and the only one that matters* <grin>):

          1) To field problem reports, questions, and announcements related to APRSISCE/32 - This is, as expected, the primary purpose.

          2) To field enhancement requests and solicit justification for said requests.  My (infrequent?) requests for opinions on some internal decisions fall into this category as well.

          3) To discuss topics related to APRS usage in general - Although I may deflect some of these to the aprssig

          4) To allow some information communication among APRSISCE/32 users (we're all licensed hams which means we need to hone our communications skills).  This communication is expected to remain friendly and constructive, not belligerent nor demeaning.

          With this charter in mind, I see no issues with the recent discussion(s) except for your post which was fine until you got to the "suck it up or shut up" comment.  If it bothers you, just poke delete, don't lash out with an attack.  I almost did that (delete) with your posting, but decided it's been long enough since the goals (and openness) of the group had been stated (probably never this formally), that it would be worth responding.

          So, to all - Be tolerant, ask for things, and keep your comments friendly.  Some off-topic is allowed, and rest assured that I'll step into the fray if I think a non-related thread is going on too long.  If you think any given topic is headed that direction, please contact me off-list (or via aprsisce-owner@yahoogroups.com) and state your concern.  But every now and then a burst of 10+ messages in one evening is to be expected (and ignored if necessary).

          Lynn (D) - KJ4ERJ - Author of APRSISCE for Windows Mobile and Win32

          * Just kidding on the "only one that matters" jibe.  All active participants in this group matter to me.  ARPSISCE/32 wouldn't be what it is today without the (sometimes insistent) input from you, the users.  James was correct in his posting as well.  Read it if you skipped it.  It was well-stated.

          On 10/15/2013 1:17 AM, Selwyn Staples wrote:

          All I am hearing is ‘gimmy this ,gimmy that. And lot of personal comment that are off topic.

           

          You were given APRSIS32, a FREE PRODUCT, suck it up or shut up. Stop winging

           

          Regards,

           

          Sel [zs6ss]


        • Lynn W Deffenbaugh (Mr)
          ... The basic Windows user interface , I m pretty sure, does not include zooming. That s a fairly recent addition to the Graphical User Interface. If a
          Message 4 of 15 , Oct 15, 2013
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            On 10/15/2013 1:35 AM, James Ewen wrote:
            > Yes, you could consider my continued desire for APRSISCE/32 to conform
            > to the basic Windows user interface concepts such as a double click on
            > a map requests a zoom in, and the arrow keys normally scroll the map
            > to be whining, but maybe someday Lynn will allow us to custom map
            > keystrokes to events so that APRSISCE/32 would become a more intuitive
            > program to use than it currently is.

            The "basic Windows user interface", I'm pretty sure, does not include
            zooming. That's a fairly recent addition to the Graphical User Interface.

            If a double-click zooms in, what zooms out? Up/Down are intuitively
            reversible.

            And if you want the arrow keys to scroll, just hold down Control while
            you hit the arrow keys. Ok, so maybe sometime I'll add a configuration
            option to toggle which does what, but who's going to maintain the
            exceptions in the Wiki?

            Lynn (D) - KJ4ERJ - Author of APRSISCE for Windows Mobile and Win32
          • Lynn W Deffenbaugh (Mr)
            +1 and You re welcome James and everyone. Well stated over all. Lynn (D) - KJ4ERJ - Author of APRSISCE for Windows Mobile and Win32 PS. Where do you think I
            Message 5 of 15 , Oct 15, 2013
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              +1 and You're welcome James and everyone. Well stated over all.

              Lynn (D) - KJ4ERJ - Author of APRSISCE for Windows Mobile and Win32

              PS. Where do you think I can increase the "performance" of
              APRSISCE/32? Just curious.

              On 10/15/2013 1:35 AM, James Ewen wrote:
              > On Mon, Oct 14, 2013 at 11:17 PM, Selwyn Staples <zs6ss@...> wrote:
              >
              >> All I am hearing is ‘gimmy this ,gimmy that. And lot of personal comment
              >> that are off topic.
              >>
              >> You were given APRSIS32, a FREE PRODUCT, suck it up or shut up. Stop winging
              > One of the purposes of this forum is to be able to provide feedback to
              > the program author. Some of that feedback is called requesting
              > features, while other feedback can take the form of user responses to
              > implementations.
              >
              > You may consider it whining, but it is an important part of building
              > the best product available.
              >
              > Without user feedback, many of the features in APRSISCE/32 wouldn't
              > exist, or would exist in a less "user-friendly" form.
              >
              > Yes, you could consider my continued desire for APRSISCE/32 to conform
              > to the basic Windows user interface concepts such as a double click on
              > a map requests a zoom in, and the arrow keys normally scroll the map
              > to be whining, but maybe someday Lynn will allow us to custom map
              > keystrokes to events so that APRSISCE/32 would become a more intuitive
              > program to use than it currently is.
              >
              > If Lynn didn't want user feedback and input, he could simply shut down
              > the forum, and program to his heart's content, never releasing another
              > update of the application.
              >
              > There are still a lot of things that can be done to or added to
              > APRSISCE/32 to increase it's performance and integration, and users
              > asking for changes allows Lynn to gauge the number of people wanting
              > specific features, or changes. I'll never stop wanting to be able to
              > add in hill shading to my maps, it adds a great deal of information to
              > the map in my opinion. Perhaps one day Lynn will find a trivial way to
              > make it happen, and APRSISCE/32 will gain another feature!
              >
              > I think we all agree that Lynn is undercharging for the application a
              > great deal, and that we appreciate the amount of work that it takes to
              > make such a great application.
              >
              > Thanks again Lynn!
              >
            • Fred Hillhouse
              Performance from a processor point of view or user point of view? From a processor point of view, I have compared similar actions on a couple of clients and
              Message 6 of 15 , Oct 15, 2013
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                Performance from a processor point of view or user point of view?

                From a processor point of view, I have compared similar actions on a couple
                of clients and APRSIS32 has been better. I have a large area specified in my
                filter. The other application just gagged on it.

                From a user point of view, well, there is your to-do list for starters. And
                I have more ... :D

                Best regards,
                Fred N7FMH


                > -----Original Message-----
                > From: aprsisce@yahoogroups.com
                > [mailto:aprsisce@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Lynn W Deffenbaugh (Mr)
                > Sent: Tuesday, October 15, 2013 09:51
                > To: aprsisce@yahoogroups.com
                > Subject: Re: [aprsisce] Wingers
                >
                > +1 and You're welcome James and everyone. Well stated over all.
                >
                > Lynn (D) - KJ4ERJ - Author of APRSISCE for Windows Mobile and Win32
                >
                > PS. Where do you think I can increase the "performance" of
                > APRSISCE/32? Just curious.
                >
                > On 10/15/2013 1:35 AM, James Ewen wrote:
                > > On Mon, Oct 14, 2013 at 11:17 PM, Selwyn Staples
                > <zs6ss@...> wrote:
                > >
                > >> All I am hearing is 'gimmy this ,gimmy that. And lot of personal
                > >> comment that are off topic.
                > >>
                > >> You were given APRSIS32, a FREE PRODUCT, suck it up or
                > shut up. Stop
                > >> winging
                > > One of the purposes of this forum is to be able to provide
                > feedback to
                > > the program author. Some of that feedback is called requesting
                > > features, while other feedback can take the form of user
                > responses to
                > > implementations.
                > >
                > > You may consider it whining, but it is an important part of
                > building
                > > the best product available.
                > >
                > > Without user feedback, many of the features in APRSISCE/32 wouldn't
                > > exist, or would exist in a less "user-friendly" form.
                > >
                > > Yes, you could consider my continued desire for APRSISCE/32
                > to conform
                > > to the basic Windows user interface concepts such as a
                > double click on
                > > a map requests a zoom in, and the arrow keys normally
                > scroll the map
                > > to be whining, but maybe someday Lynn will allow us to custom map
                > > keystrokes to events so that APRSISCE/32 would become a
                > more intuitive
                > > program to use than it currently is.
                > >
                > > If Lynn didn't want user feedback and input, he could
                > simply shut down
                > > the forum, and program to his heart's content, never
                > releasing another
                > > update of the application.
                > >
                > > There are still a lot of things that can be done to or added to
                > > APRSISCE/32 to increase it's performance and integration, and users
                > > asking for changes allows Lynn to gauge the number of
                > people wanting
                > > specific features, or changes. I'll never stop wanting to
                > be able to
                > > add in hill shading to my maps, it adds a great deal of
                > information to
                > > the map in my opinion. Perhaps one day Lynn will find a
                > trivial way to
                > > make it happen, and APRSISCE/32 will gain another feature!
                > >
                > > I think we all agree that Lynn is undercharging for the
                > application a
                > > great deal, and that we appreciate the amount of work that
                > it takes to
                > > make such a great application.
                > >
                > > Thanks again Lynn!
                > >
                >
                >
                >
                > ------------------------------------
                >
                > Yahoo! Groups Links
                >
                >
                >
              • James Ewen
                On Tue, Oct 15, 2013 at 6:19 AM, Lynn W Deffenbaugh (Mr) ... I ll give you that, but just about every application that has a map on it allows you to double
                Message 7 of 15 , Oct 15, 2013
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                  On Tue, Oct 15, 2013 at 6:19 AM, Lynn W Deffenbaugh (Mr)
                  <kj4erj@...> wrote:

                  > The "basic Windows user interface", I'm pretty sure, does not include
                  > zooming. That's a fairly recent addition to the Graphical User Interface.

                  I'll give you that, but just about every application that has a map on
                  it allows you to double click to zoom.

                  > If a double-click zooms in, what zooms out? Up/Down are intuitively
                  > reversible.

                  That's not quite as universal... some use the ALT key modifier. Some
                  you just have to click on the zoom out button. The key is that one
                  does not have to continually move the map trying to get the desired
                  location centered while zooming. You just keep clicking on the desired
                  spot and it zooms in. You easily adjust the desired zoom location by
                  clicking on it.

                  > And if you want the arrow keys to scroll, just hold down Control while
                  > you hit the arrow keys. Ok, so maybe sometime I'll add a configuration
                  > option to toggle which does what, but who's going to maintain the
                  > exceptions in the Wiki?

                  This would be a much easier process if you actually interacted with
                  the rest of the world like many people do. I understand that you do
                  not want to contaminate the purity of APRSISCE/32 by looking at what
                  other authors have done, but by interacting with other applications
                  and systems, you can learn and appreciate the user interfaces that
                  your users have become accustomed to utilizing.

                  Go to the local Walmart and go into the electronics section. Get one
                  of the teenagers to show you the control configurations screens for a
                  game like Call of Duty or such. There are a whole bunch of buttons on
                  the controllers, and you can reassign the available functions to the
                  buttons as you desire. This allows people who have gotten accustomed
                  to a specific button layout, perhaps from another game to modify the
                  controller to match their desires, rather than having to retrain their
                  brains to a whole new layout because the programmer liked it better
                  another way.

                  Remapping keystrokes to events shouldn't be a show stopper... It would
                  take some work to perhaps change hard coded values over to variables,
                  and then create a keystroke assignment interface, but it would
                  probably help out a bit.

                  This all said while thousands of miles out of striking distance! ;)

                  --
                  James
                  VE6SRV
                • James Ewen
                  ... There s the two of us looking over the same fence from different sides again! :) Like Fred said, more performance from my side of the fence equates to more
                  Message 8 of 15 , Oct 15, 2013
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                    On Tue, Oct 15, 2013 at 8:39 AM, Fred Hillhouse <fmhillhouse@...> wrote:

                    > Performance from a processor point of view or user point of view?
                    >
                    > From a processor point of view, I have compared similar actions on a couple
                    > of clients and APRSIS32 has been better. I have a large area specified in my
                    > filter. The other application just gagged on it.
                    >
                    > From a user point of view, well, there is your to-do list for starters. And
                    > I have more ... :D

                    There's the two of us looking over the same fence from different sides again! :)

                    Like Fred said, more performance from my side of the fence equates to
                    more bells and whistles.

                    From your side of the fence it's make this puppy scream along as fast
                    as I can...

                    From your side of the fence, APRSISCE/32 is a well oiled machine. I'm
                    sure you've got the code tweaked out like no one else would. It
                    definitely isn't one of those bloated 6 GB downloads that doesn't do
                    much.

                    I can't say I have ever seen the program lolly-gag along doing nothing
                    and making me wait for it.

                    --
                    James
                    VE6SRV
                  • Lynn W Deffenbaugh (Mr)
                    ... Yep, 2,416 miles at 325 degrees. Cruise missile has been launched. But wait, VE6SRV is now running ZL4FOX SARTRACK? I really didn t think my user
                    Message 9 of 15 , Oct 15, 2013
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                      On 10/15/2013 2:37 PM, James Ewen wrote:
                      > This all said while thousands of miles out of striking distance! ;)

                      Yep, 2,416 miles at 325 degrees. Cruise missile has been launched. <grin>

                      But wait, VE6SRV is now running ZL4FOX SARTRACK? I really didn't think
                      my user interface was THAT bad! Or did you decide to help another
                      author clean up his APRS client?

                      Lynn (D) - KJ4ERJ - Author of APRSISCE for Windows Mobile and Win32
                    • Lynn W Deffenbaugh (Mr)
                      ... The only time it does that is when it s struggling to get an Internet connection to something like the address server. At least, as far as I know that
                      Message 10 of 15 , Oct 15, 2013
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                        On 10/15/2013 3:05 PM, James Ewen wrote:
                        > I can't say I have ever seen the program lolly-gag along doing nothing
                        > and making me wait for it.

                        The only time it does that is when it's struggling to get an Internet
                        connection to something like the address server. At least, as far as I
                        know that should be the only observable slowdown.

                        Thanks for your definition of "performance". I'll sleep better tonight
                        knowing that there isn't something I was unaware of slowing the program
                        down.

                        Lynn (D) - KJ4ERJ - Author of APRSISCE for Windows Mobile and Win32
                      • Lynn W Deffenbaugh (Mr)
                        ... Oh wait... I haven t done self-moving objects yet. Cruise launch cancelled pending further APRSISCE/32 enhancements. Lynn (D) - KJ4ERJ - Author of
                        Message 11 of 15 , Oct 15, 2013
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                          On 10/15/2013 3:38 PM, Lynn W Deffenbaugh (Mr) wrote:
                          > On 10/15/2013 2:37 PM, James Ewen wrote:
                          >> This all said while thousands of miles out of striking distance! ;)
                          > Yep, 2,416 miles at 325 degrees. Cruise missile has been launched. <grin>

                          Oh wait... I haven't done self-moving objects yet. Cruise launch
                          cancelled pending further APRSISCE/32 enhancements.

                          Lynn (D) - KJ4ERJ - Author of APRSISCE for Windows Mobile and Win32
                        • Patrick Wood
                          Awww, you mean that wasn t a feature announcement? p
                          Message 12 of 15 , Oct 15, 2013
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                            Awww, you mean that wasn't a feature announcement?

                            p


                            On Tue, Oct 15, 2013 at 3:47 PM, Lynn W Deffenbaugh (Mr) <kj4erj@...> wrote:
                            On 10/15/2013 3:38 PM, Lynn W Deffenbaugh (Mr) wrote:
                            > On 10/15/2013 2:37 PM, James Ewen wrote:
                            >> This all said while thousands of miles out of striking distance! ;)
                            > Yep, 2,416 miles at 325 degrees.  Cruise missile has been launched. <grin>

                            Oh wait... I haven't done self-moving objects yet.  Cruise launch
                            cancelled pending further APRSISCE/32 enhancements.

                            Lynn (D) - KJ4ERJ - Author of APRSISCE for Windows Mobile and Win32



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                          • James Ewen
                            On Tue, Oct 15, 2013 at 1:47 PM, Lynn W Deffenbaugh (Mr) ... That one is of course on the feature request list, right? With the ability to follow a prescribed
                            Message 13 of 15 , Oct 15, 2013
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                              On Tue, Oct 15, 2013 at 1:47 PM, Lynn W Deffenbaugh (Mr)
                              <kj4erj@...> wrote:

                              > Oh wait... I haven't done self-moving objects yet. Cruise launch
                              > cancelled pending further APRSISCE/32 enhancements.

                              That one is of course on the feature request list, right? With the
                              ability to follow a prescribed GPX track at a user configurable rate
                              of speed...

                              --
                              James
                              VE6SRV
                            • Keith VE7GDH
                              Lynn KJ4ERJ wrote... ... Just one? Chance of success would be low. We have millions of Canada Geese patrolling the borders! 73 es cul - Keith VE7GDH
                              Message 14 of 15 , Oct 15, 2013
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                                Lynn KJ4ERJ wrote...

                                > Yep, 2,416 miles at 325 degrees. Cruise missile has been launched.

                                Just one? Chance of success would be low. We have millions
                                of Canada Geese patrolling the borders!

                                73 es cul - Keith VE7GDH
                                www.ui-view.org
                                --
                                "I may be lost, but I know exactly where I am!"
                              • James Ewen
                                On Tue, Oct 15, 2013 at 1:38 PM, Lynn W Deffenbaugh (Mr) ... I decided to see if another author listens to feature requests! You re the one who alerted
                                Message 15 of 15 , Oct 15, 2013
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                                  On Tue, Oct 15, 2013 at 1:38 PM, Lynn W Deffenbaugh (Mr)
                                  <kj4erj@...> wrote:

                                  > But wait, VE6SRV is now running ZL4FOX SARTRACK? I really didn't think
                                  > my user interface was THAT bad! Or did you decide to help another
                                  > author clean up his APRS client?

                                  I decided to see if another author listens to feature requests! <smirk>

                                  You're the one who alerted me to the program with the update to deal
                                  with TACTICAL assignments. I had to go see what that was all about,
                                  and now am playing with yet another APRS program.

                                  I'm of a different mindset than you... I'll go anywhere looking for
                                  application features that give me what I want. SARTrack looks to have
                                  some interesting features. I still have to play with it more.

                                  --
                                  James
                                  VE6SRV
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