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Re: [aprsisce] EMCOMM communications setup suggestion?

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  • Rob Giuliano
    there are several, but they may not have the capability of APRSIS32. I ve used APRSd on OpenWRT and I know there are others. A search on APRS on WRT should
    Message 1 of 15 , May 27, 2013
    • 0 Attachment
      there are several, but they may not have the capability of APRSIS32.
      I've used APRSd on OpenWRT and I know there are others. A search on APRS on WRT should give several hits.

      I'd still go with APRSIS32 (and have)
      Robert Giuliano
      KB8RCO

      ---------------------------------------------

      From: Greg D <ko6th.greg@...>
      To: aprsisce@yahoogroups.com
      Sent: Monday, May 27, 2013 8:38 PM
      Subject: Re: [aprsisce] EMCOMM communications setup suggestion?

       
      Hi Rob,

      Ok, right.  I was thinking that might be what you had in mind, but it's far beyond what this team would want to deal with.  It might be interesting to port a headless APRS server to OpenWRT to serve this function...

      So, I think we're good...  (assuming Lynn agrees...)

      Thanks,

      Greg  KO6TH


      Rob Giuliano wrote:
       
      APRSIS32 may be able to run on the AP itself, if the AP is something like a Linux box (with WINE) setup as an access point / router / etc. (rather than using a Linksys, DLink, or other more limited router), but that may be more effort than you are looking at.  The comment was more about the APRSIS server box needing to be centeral as it will be getting a lot of traffic in both directions, so the more computers "seeing" it directly, the better.
       
      MASTER -> APRSIS with IS-server or Local Server (I haven't used this one yet).
          All other computers on the network would set their IS-Server "IP or DNS" set to the MASTER
       
      With this connection, and all the RF->IS / IS->RF  set, the computers should be able to communicate through anything on the APRSIS32 "Message" menu item:
         Send Message, Chat, Announcements, Bulletins, etc (e-mail will need internet).
       
      I have done this wired in my house ) well actually, wired/wireless while my internet connection was down.  I could still send messages that came up on the other computers.
       
      Robert Giuliano
      KB8RCO


      ---------------------------------------------
      From: Greg D <ko6th.greg@...>
      To: aprsisce@yahoogroups.com
      Sent: Monday, May 27, 2013 2:46 PM
      Subject: Re: [aprsisce] EMCOMM communications setup suggestion?
       
      Hi Rob,

      Some additional thoughts, below.  Thanks for your help,

      Greg  KO6TH


      Rob Giuliano wrote:
       
      2. This is definitely possible.     They (clients computers) may need the server, but they can definitely talk to each other with APRSIS32 clients as a group or individually.      (they won't, or at least won't as much, if the network goes RF).      APRSIS Server "AT" or "ON" the ACCESS point would ensure all computers can reach it, since they need to reach the Access-Point to get an IP.

      3.  AP with DHCP server provides the capability of keeping the "network" togethe.      The question is "will the Access-Point provide the routing capability without the internet?"      With APRSIS32 as the ISserver, it would be the gateway for the other clients. 4. Yes, all connected are part of the infrustructure - of course filtering could limited that if needed.
      So, APRSIS/32 can't run on the AP itself, at least not the kind of AP that's typically available.  What I am imagining is that one of the PCs would be designated as the master, and would run APRSIS/32 with its server port open.  All the other PCs would connect to that PC's APRSIS32 instance.  The question is whether all of the so-connected PCs would be able to talk to each other as well as the master, any RF-connected clients via that master PC or other PCs, and the Internet IS through the access point router when it comes up.  I think you said "yes" to all of the above.  Right?  (Note that to do this, the Master's copy of APRSIS/32 would need to replicate the APRS traffic to all of the connected instances below it, not just forward the message to the Internet port (which wouldn't go anywhere if the Internet is down).
      I'm sure Lynn (and many others) could be more specific.  They seem to have more experience in this area - from previous posts.
      Lynn?

      Robert Giuliano KB8RCO
      ---------------------------------------------
      From: Greg D mailto:ko6th.greg@...
      To: aprsisce@yahoogroups.com
      Sent: Monday, May 27, 2013 12:57 AM
      Subject: [aprsisce] EMCOMM communications setup suggestion?
       
      Hi folks, I turned on the radio to our local repeater this evening, just in time to hear the end of a Net discussion about setting up computers for direct communication. One person said you can do this now (implying newly) with Windows 8 over Wi-Fi. Since I know something about Wi-Fi communication (it's an occupational liability), I chimed in... What they want to do is be able the sending of messages from one computer to another, so they were talking about the link technology. One person had asked, before I joined, about the client software, and wouldn't you need a server somewhere to make this all work. And what were the options as other services (e.g. Internet) came on line. After chatting for a bit and understanding what they were after, it sounded to me like what APRS was precisely created for. Whether over a TNC-based RF channel, APRS-IS internet connectivity, or a combination of both, APRS gives the client-to-client messaging they are after. And also all that situational awareness that they'd want as well. So, back to the original topics of this email: 1. Given a bunch of Laptops I see two ways to get link-level connectivity; with a central Wi-Fi access point (typically a home router/AP), and ad-hoc. With the central AP, each laptop gets its own IP Address from the AP, and can talk between any and all of them at an IP level. I am not quite as familiar with ad-hoc, especially as it pertains to Windows 8, but I'm pretty sure it dates back to at least Windows XP, if not earlier, and suspect the same client to client communication can be accomplished with a sufficient bit of fiddling. Does anyone have more experience with ad-hoc mode to confirm this? I know about the link-level protocol; it's the Windows (and MAC for that matter) end of things I'm a bit fuzzy about. 2. More importantly, and pertaining to this group... Once one has a link between PCs, what client software to use? APRSIS immediately comes to mind. I am thinking that one of the PCs could be set up as the "master", enabling its APRSIS Server, and all the other PCs would connect to it. Would this enable the same messaging connectivity among all clients, so any and all of them could message each other, and all of the other APRS shared-awareness stuff that goes with APRS? Or is there a directedness about the communication such that leaf-level clients can only talk to the "server", and not to each other? 3. My leaning is toward the "central AP" as the interconnect of choice, as most PCs are already set up for the proper communication model (DHCP and all that), and if Internet connectivity becomes available, one already has the infrastructure to use it. If so, would that master node automatically become a gateway to the IS, transparently enabling the global infrastructure for all of the clients? 4. Incluiding the RF infrastructure should be simply a matter of having one or more of the PCs be connected to a TNC and radio. If so, do the RF clients and anyone they hear also become automatic members of the whole infrastructure, able to talk to anyone else? Thanks, Greg KO6TH


    • Matthew Willis
      I have a 4-radio digi plus igate running off a WRT54GL using OpenWRT and aprx. Since you can run the routers on 12v, they are great for this job. -lilmatt
      Message 2 of 15 , May 28, 2013
      • 0 Attachment
        I have a 4-radio digi plus igate running off a WRT54GL using OpenWRT and aprx.  Since you can run the routers on 12v, they are great for this job.  

        -lilmatt
        N2PYI

        On May 27, 2013, at 10:59 PM, Rob Giuliano <kb8rco@...> wrote:

         

        there are several, but they may not have the capability of APRSIS32.
        I've used APRSd on OpenWRT and I know there are others. A search on APRS on WRT should give several hits.

        I'd still go with APRSIS32 (and have)
        Robert Giuliano
        KB8RCO

        ---------------------------------------------

        From: Greg D <ko6th.greg@...>
        To: aprsisce@yahoogroups.com
        Sent: Monday, May 27, 2013 8:38 PM
        Subject: Re: [aprsisce] EMCOMM communications setup suggestion?

         
        Hi Rob,

        Ok, right.  I was thinking that might be what you had in mind, but it's far beyond what this team would want to deal with.  It might be interesting to port a headless APRS server to OpenWRT to serve this function...

        So, I think we're good...  (assuming Lynn agrees...)

        Thanks,

        Greg  KO6TH


        Rob Giuliano wrote:
         
        APRSIS32 may be able to run on the AP itself, if the AP is something like a Linux box (with WINE) setup as an access point / router / etc. (rather than using a Linksys, DLink, or other more limited router), but that may be more effort than you are looking at.  The comment was more about the APRSIS server box needing to be centeral as it will be getting a lot of traffic in both directions, so the more computers "seeing" it directly, the better.
         
        MASTER -> APRSIS with IS-server or Local Server (I haven't used this one yet).
            All other computers on the network would set their IS-Server "IP or DNS" set to the MASTER
         
        With this connection, and all the RF->IS / IS->RF  set, the computers should be able to communicate through anything on the APRSIS32 "Message" menu item:
           Send Message, Chat, Announcements, Bulletins, etc (e-mail will need internet).
         
        I have done this wired in my house ) well actually, wired/wireless while my internet connection was down.  I could still send messages that came up on the other computers.
         
        Robert Giuliano
        KB8RCO


        ---------------------------------------------
        From: Greg D <ko6th.greg@...>
        To: aprsisce@yahoogroups.com
        Sent: Monday, May 27, 2013 2:46 PM
        Subject: Re: [aprsisce] EMCOMM communications setup suggestion?
         
        Hi Rob,

        Some additional thoughts, below.  Thanks for your help,

        Greg  KO6TH


        Rob Giuliano wrote:
         
        2. This is definitely possible.     They (clients computers) may need the server, but they can definitely talk to each other with APRSIS32 clients as a group or individually.      (they won't, or at least won't as much, if the network goes RF).      APRSIS Server "AT" or "ON" the ACCESS point would ensure all computers can reach it, since they need to reach the Access-Point to get an IP.

        3.  AP with DHCP server provides the capability of keeping the "network" togethe.      The question is "will the Access-Point provide the routing capability without the internet?"      With APRSIS32 as the ISserver, it would be the gateway for the other clients. 4. Yes, all connected are part of the infrustructure - of course filtering could limited that if needed.
        So, APRSIS/32 can't run on the AP itself, at least not the kind of AP that's typically available.  What I am imagining is that one of the PCs would be designated as the master, and would run APRSIS/32 with its server port open.  All the other PCs would connect to that PC's APRSIS32 instance.  The question is whether all of the so-connected PCs would be able to talk to each other as well as the master, any RF-connected clients via that master PC or other PCs, and the Internet IS through the access point router when it comes up.  I think you said "yes" to all of the above.  Right?  (Note that to do this, the Master's copy of APRSIS/32 would need to replicate the APRS traffic to all of the connected instances below it, not just forward the message to the Internet port (which wouldn't go anywhere if the Internet is down).
        I'm sure Lynn (and many others) could be more specific.  They seem to have more experience in this area - from previous posts.
        Lynn?

        Robert Giuliano KB8RCO
        ---------------------------------------------
        From: Greg D mailto:ko6th.greg@...
        To: aprsisce@yahoogroups.com
        Sent: Monday, May 27, 2013 12:57 AM
        Subject: [aprsisce] EMCOMM communications setup suggestion?
         
        Hi folks, I turned on the radio to our local repeater this evening, just in time to hear the end of a Net discussion about setting up computers for direct communication. One person said you can do this now (implying newly) with Windows 8 over Wi-Fi. Since I know something about Wi-Fi communication (it's an occupational liability), I chimed in... What they want to do is be able the sending of messages from one computer to another, so they were talking about the link technology. One person had asked, before I joined, about the client software, and wouldn't you need a server somewhere to make this all work. And what were the options as other services (e.g. Internet) came on line. After chatting for a bit and understanding what they were after, it sounded to me like what APRS was precisely created for. Whether over a TNC-based RF channel, APRS-IS internet connectivity, or a combination of both, APRS gives the client-to-client messaging they are after. And also all that situational awareness that they'd want as well. So, back to the original topics of this email: 1. Given a bunch of Laptops I see two ways to get link-level connectivity; with a central Wi-Fi access point (typically a home router/AP), and ad-hoc. With the central AP, each laptop gets its own IP Address from the AP, and can talk between any and all of them at an IP level. I am not quite as familiar with ad-hoc, especially as it pertains to Windows 8, but I'm pretty sure it dates back to at least Windows XP, if not earlier, and suspect the same client to client communication can be accomplished with a sufficient bit of fiddling. Does anyone have more experience with ad-hoc mode to confirm this? I know about the link-level protocol; it's the Windows (and MAC for that matter) end of things I'm a bit fuzzy about. 2. More importantly, and pertaining to this group... Once one has a link between PCs, what client software to use? APRSIS immediately comes to mind. I am thinking that one of the PCs could be set up as the "master", enabling its APRSIS Server, and all the other PCs would connect to it. Would this enable the same messaging connectivity among all clients, so any and all of them could message each other, and all of the other APRS shared-awareness stuff that goes with APRS? Or is there a directedness about the communication such that leaf-level clients can only talk to the "server", and not to each other? 3. My leaning is toward the "central AP" as the interconnect of choice, as most PCs are already set up for the proper communication model (DHCP and all that), and if Internet connectivity becomes available, one already has the infrastructure to use it. If so, would that master node automatically become a gateway to the IS, transparently enabling the global infrastructure for all of the clients? 4. Incluiding the RF infrastructure should be simply a matter of having one or more of the PCs be connected to a TNC and radio. If so, do the RF clients and anyone they hear also become automatic members of the whole infrastructure, able to talk to anyone else? Thanks, Greg KO6TH


      • Rob Giuliano
        Sorry - I meant aprx!    That was what I intsalled on my WRT54g.  It is offline now, but has the ability to connect TNC(s) through the 2 serial port
        Message 3 of 15 , May 28, 2013
        • 0 Attachment
          Sorry - I meant aprx!
             That was what I intsalled on my WRT54g.  It is offline now, but has the ability to connect TNC(s) through the 2 serial port headers (although I have only used 1).
           
           
          Thanks Matthew!
           
          Robert Giuliano
          KB8RCO


          ---------------------------------------------
          From: Matthew Willis <mattwillis@...>
          To: "aprsisce@yahoogroups.com" <aprsisce@yahoogroups.com>
          Sent: Tuesday, May 28, 2013 7:49 AM
          Subject: Re: [aprsisce] EMCOMM communications setup suggestion?
           
          I have a 4-radio digi plus igate running off a WRT54GL using OpenWRT and aprx.  Since you can run the routers on 12v, they are great for this job.  

          -lilmatt
          N2PYI On May 27, 2013, at 10:59 PM, Rob Giuliano <kb8rco@...> wrote:
           
          there are several, but they may not have the capability of APRSIS32. I've used APRSd on OpenWRT and I know there are others. A search on APRS on WRT should give several hits.

          I'd still go with APRSIS32 (and have)
          Robert Giuliano KB8RCO
          ---------------------------------------------
          From: Greg D <ko6th.greg@...>
          To: aprsisce@yahoogroups.com
          Sent: Monday, May 27, 2013 8:38 PM
          Subject: Re: [aprsisce] EMCOMM communications setup suggestion?
           
          Hi Rob, Ok, right.  I was thinking that might be what you had in mind, but it's far beyond what this team would want to deal with.  It might be interesting to port a headless APRS server to OpenWRT to serve this function... So, I think we're good...  (assuming Lynn agrees...) Thanks, Greg  KO6TH Rob Giuliano wrote:
           
          APRSIS32 may be able to run on the AP itself, if the AP is something like a Linux box (with WINE) setup as an access point / router / etc. (rather than using a Linksys, DLink, or other more limited router), but that may be more effort than you are looking at.  The comment was more about the APRSIS server box needing to be centeral as it will be getting a lot of traffic in both directions, so the more computers "seeing" it directly, the better.
           
          MASTER -> APRSIS with IS-server or Local Server (I haven't used this one yet).
              All other computers on the network would set their IS-Server "IP or DNS" set to the MASTER
           
          With this connection, and all the RF->IS / IS->RF  set, the computers should be able to communicate through anything on the APRSIS32 "Message" menu item:
             Send Message, Chat, Announcements, Bulletins, etc (e-mail will need internet).
           
          I have done this wired in my house ) well actually, wired/wireless while my internet connection was down.  I could still send messages that came up on the other computers.
           
          Robert Giuliano
          KB8RCO
          ---------------------------------------------
          From: Greg D mailto:ko6th.greg@...
          To: aprsisce@yahoogroups.com
          Sent: Monday, May 27, 2013 2:46 PM
          Subject: Re: [aprsisce] EMCOMM communications setup suggestion?
           
          Hi Rob, Some additional thoughts, below.  Thanks for your help, Greg  KO6TH Rob Giuliano wrote:
           
          2. This is definitely possible.     They (clients computers) may need the server, but they can definitely talk to each other with APRSIS32 clients as a group or individually.      (they won't, or at least won't as much, if the network goes RF).      APRSIS Server "AT" or "ON" the ACCESS point would ensure all computers can reach it, since they need to reach the Access-Point to get an IP.

          3.  AP with DHCP server provides the capability of keeping the "network" togethe.      The question is "will the Access-Point provide the routing capability without the internet?"      With APRSIS32 as the ISserver, it would be the gateway for the other clients. 4. Yes, all connected are part of the infrustructure - of course filtering could limited that if needed.
          So, APRSIS/32 can't run on the AP itself, at least not the kind of AP that's typically available.  What I am imagining is that one of the PCs would be designated as the master, and would run APRSIS/32 with its server port open.  All the other PCs would connect to that PC's APRSIS32 instance.  The question is whether all of the so-connected PCs would be able to talk to each other as well as the master, any RF-connected clients via that master PC or other PCs, and the Internet IS through the access point router when it comes up.  I think you said "yes" to all of the above.  Right?  (Note that to do this, the Master's copy of APRSIS/32 would need to replicate the APRS traffic to all of the connected instances below it, not just forward the message to the Internet port (which wouldn't go anywhere if the Internet is down).
          I'm sure Lynn (and many others) could be more specific.  They seem to have more experience in this area - from previous posts.
          Lynn?

          Robert Giuliano KB8RCO
          ---------------------------------------------
          From: Greg D mailto:ko6th.greg@...
          To: aprsisce@yahoogroups.com
          Sent: Monday, May 27, 2013 12:57 AM
          Subject: [aprsisce] EMCOMM communications setup suggestion?
           
          Hi folks, I turned on the radio to our local repeater this evening, just in time to hear the end of a Net discussion about setting up computers for direct communication. One person said you can do this now (implying newly) with Windows 8 over Wi-Fi. Since I know something about Wi-Fi communication (it's an occupational liability), I chimed in... What they want to do is be able the sending of messages from one computer to another, so they were talking about the link technology. One person had asked, before I joined, about the client software, and wouldn't you need a server somewhere to make this all work. And what were the options as other services (e.g. Internet) came on line. After chatting for a bit and understanding what they were after, it sounded to me like what APRS was precisely created for. Whether over a TNC-based RF channel, APRS-IS internet connectivity, or a combination of both, APRS gives the client-to-client messaging they are after. And also all that situational awareness that they'd want as well. So, back to the original topics of this email: 1. Given a bunch of Laptops I see two ways to get link-level connectivity; with a central Wi-Fi access point (typically a home router/AP), and ad-hoc. With the central AP, each laptop gets its own IP Address from the AP, and can talk between any and all of them at an IP level. I am not quite as familiar with ad-hoc, especially as it pertains to Windows 8, but I'm pretty sure it dates back to at least Windows XP, if not earlier, and suspect the same client to client communication can be accomplished with a sufficient bit of fiddling. Does anyone have more experience with ad-hoc mode to confirm this? I know about the link-level protocol; it's the Windows (and MAC for that matter) end of things I'm a bit fuzzy about. 2. More importantly, and pertaining to this group... Once one has a link between PCs, what client software to use? APRSIS immediately comes to mind. I am thinking that one of the PCs could be set up as the "master", enabling its APRSIS Server, and all the other PCs would connect to it. Would this enable the same messaging connectivity among all clients, so any and all of them could message each other, and all of the other APRS shared-awareness stuff that goes with APRS? Or is there a directedness about the communication such that leaf-level clients can only talk to the "server", and not to each other? 3. My leaning is toward the "central AP" as the interconnect of choice, as most PCs are already set up for the proper communication model (DHCP and all that), and if Internet connectivity becomes available, one already has the infrastructure to use it. If so, would that master node automatically become a gateway to the IS, transparently enabling the global infrastructure for all of the clients? 4. Incluiding the RF infrastructure should be simply a matter of having one or more of the PCs be connected to a TNC and radio. If so, do the RF clients and anyone they hear also become automatic members of the whole infrastructure, able to talk to anyone else? Thanks, Greg KO6TH
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