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EMCOMM communications setup suggestion?

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  • Greg D
    Hi folks, I turned on the radio to our local repeater this evening, just in time to hear the end of a Net discussion about setting up computers for direct
    Message 1 of 15 , May 26, 2013
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      Hi folks,

      I turned on the radio to our local repeater this evening, just in time
      to hear the end of a Net discussion about setting up computers for
      direct communication. One person said you can do this now (implying
      newly) with Windows 8 over Wi-Fi. Since I know something about Wi-Fi
      communication (it's an occupational liability), I chimed in...

      What they want to do is be able the sending of messages from one
      computer to another, so they were talking about the link technology.
      One person had asked, before I joined, about the client software, and
      wouldn't you need a server somewhere to make this all work. And what
      were the options as other services (e.g. Internet) came on line.

      After chatting for a bit and understanding what they were after, it
      sounded to me like what APRS was precisely created for. Whether over a
      TNC-based RF channel, APRS-IS internet connectivity, or a combination of
      both, APRS gives the client-to-client messaging they are after. And
      also all that situational awareness that they'd want as well.

      So, back to the original topics of this email:

      1. Given a bunch of Laptops I see two ways to get link-level
      connectivity; with a central Wi-Fi access point (typically a home
      router/AP), and ad-hoc. With the central AP, each laptop gets its own
      IP Address from the AP, and can talk between any and all of them at an
      IP level. I am not quite as familiar with ad-hoc, especially as it
      pertains to Windows 8, but I'm pretty sure it dates back to at least
      Windows XP, if not earlier, and suspect the same client to client
      communication can be accomplished with a sufficient bit of fiddling.
      Does anyone have more experience with ad-hoc mode to confirm this? I
      know about the link-level protocol; it's the Windows (and MAC for that
      matter) end of things I'm a bit fuzzy about.

      2. More importantly, and pertaining to this group... Once one has a
      link between PCs, what client software to use? APRSIS immediately comes
      to mind. I am thinking that one of the PCs could be set up as the
      "master", enabling its APRSIS Server, and all the other PCs would
      connect to it. Would this enable the same messaging connectivity among
      all clients, so any and all of them could message each other, and all of
      the other APRS shared-awareness stuff that goes with APRS? Or is there
      a directedness about the communication such that leaf-level clients can
      only talk to the "server", and not to each other?

      3. My leaning is toward the "central AP" as the interconnect of choice,
      as most PCs are already set up for the proper communication model (DHCP
      and all that), and if Internet connectivity becomes available, one
      already has the infrastructure to use it. If so, would that master node
      automatically become a gateway to the IS, transparently enabling the
      global infrastructure for all of the clients?

      4. Incluiding the RF infrastructure should be simply a matter of having
      one or more of the PCs be connected to a TNC and radio. If so, do the
      RF clients and anyone they hear also become automatic members of the
      whole infrastructure, able to talk to anyone else?

      Thanks,

      Greg KO6TH
    • Ron Wenig
      Hi Greg, Have you looked into the HSMM-MESH project. It uses linksys routers, 2.4 GHz, to create a mesh network using firmware that was created for this
      Message 2 of 15 , May 27, 2013
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        Hi Greg,

        Have you looked into the HSMM-MESH project.  It uses linksys routers, 2.4 GHz, to create a mesh network using firmware that was created for this purpose.  You set up as many mesh units as you can to expand coverage.  You can install an internet chat server program in one of the routers and use chat clients to talk to each other along with file transfer and video and voice over ip programs.  There are a lot of emcomm groups using this.  More information here:

        http://www.hsmm-mesh.org/

        73, Ron ny3j

        On 5/27/2013 12:57 AM, Greg D wrote:
         

        Hi folks,

        I turned on the radio to our local repeater this evening, just in time
        to hear the end of a Net discussion about setting up computers for
        direct communication. One person said you can do this now (implying
        newly) with Windows 8 over Wi-Fi. Since I know something about Wi-Fi
        communication (it's an occupational liability), I chimed in...


      • Don Rolph
        In reading this I am confused. It seems you are trying to setup a chat system for perhaps an EOC. Is that your goal? Some questions: 1) do you want the
        Message 3 of 15 , May 27, 2013
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          In reading this I am confused.

          It seems you are trying to setup a chat system for perhaps an EOC.  Is that your goal?

          Some questions:

          1) do you want the traffic to be: point to point or broadcast?
          - incident intelligence?
          - tactical communications?
          - logistical communications?
          - command communications?

          2) how should the system behave when the internet returns?

          3) what is the role of RF stations in this model?

          4) Do you need permanent records?

          73,
          AB1PH
          Don Rolph


          On Mon, May 27, 2013 at 12:57 AM, Greg D <ko6th.greg@...> wrote:
           

          Hi folks,

          I turned on the radio to our local repeater this evening, just in time
          to hear the end of a Net discussion about setting up computers for
          direct communication. One person said you can do this now (implying
          newly) with Windows 8 over Wi-Fi. Since I know something about Wi-Fi
          communication (it's an occupational liability), I chimed in...

          What they want to do is be able the sending of messages from one
          computer to another, so they were talking about the link technology.
          One person had asked, before I joined, about the client software, and
          wouldn't you need a server somewhere to make this all work. And what
          were the options as other services (e.g. Internet) came on line.

          After chatting for a bit and understanding what they were after, it
          sounded to me like what APRS was precisely created for. Whether over a
          TNC-based RF channel, APRS-IS internet connectivity, or a combination of
          both, APRS gives the client-to-client messaging they are after. And
          also all that situational awareness that they'd want as well.

          So, back to the original topics of this email:

          1. Given a bunch of Laptops I see two ways to get link-level
          connectivity; with a central Wi-Fi access point (typically a home
          router/AP), and ad-hoc. With the central AP, each laptop gets its own
          IP Address from the AP, and can talk between any and all of them at an
          IP level. I am not quite as familiar with ad-hoc, especially as it
          pertains to Windows 8, but I'm pretty sure it dates back to at least
          Windows XP, if not earlier, and suspect the same client to client
          communication can be accomplished with a sufficient bit of fiddling.
          Does anyone have more experience with ad-hoc mode to confirm this? I
          know about the link-level protocol; it's the Windows (and MAC for that
          matter) end of things I'm a bit fuzzy about.

          2. More importantly, and pertaining to this group... Once one has a
          link between PCs, what client software to use? APRSIS immediately comes
          to mind. I am thinking that one of the PCs could be set up as the
          "master", enabling its APRSIS Server, and all the other PCs would
          connect to it. Would this enable the same messaging connectivity among
          all clients, so any and all of them could message each other, and all of
          the other APRS shared-awareness stuff that goes with APRS? Or is there
          a directedness about the communication such that leaf-level clients can
          only talk to the "server", and not to each other?

          3. My leaning is toward the "central AP" as the interconnect of choice,
          as most PCs are already set up for the proper communication model (DHCP
          and all that), and if Internet connectivity becomes available, one
          already has the infrastructure to use it. If so, would that master node
          automatically become a gateway to the IS, transparently enabling the
          global infrastructure for all of the clients?

          4. Incluiding the RF infrastructure should be simply a matter of having
          one or more of the PCs be connected to a TNC and radio. If so, do the
          RF clients and anyone they hear also become automatic members of the
          whole infrastructure, able to talk to anyone else?

          Thanks,

          Greg KO6TH


        • Rob Giuliano
          Since you asked on the APRSISce list, I ll use that as the model. I KNOW what you are looking for is ALL in the structure of APRS (and fully capable within
          Message 4 of 15 , May 27, 2013
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            Since you asked on the APRSISce list, I'll use that as the model.
            I KNOW what you are looking for is ALL in the structure of APRS (and fully capable within APRSISce/32).  Bulletins, chats, groups, !SHRIEKS!, etc. are all tools to send to one or more APRS instances in carious ways. 

            As fro the network part, it is just allowing them to communicate (WI-FI, TNC-RF, WIRED, whatever is available).  As long as each computer can see the another and has a mechanism for relaying on (DIGI on RF), the connection is there for communication.

            Your direct comments/questions
            1. I haven't used a wireless router in Ad-Hoc, but always use Access-Point.
                So I can't exactly help here.

            2. This is definitely possible.
                They (clients computers) may need the server, but they can definitely talk to each other with APRSIS32 clients as a group or individually.
                 (they won't, or at least won't as much, if the network goes RF). 
                APRSIS Server "AT" or "ON" the ACCESS point would ensure all computers can reach it, since they need to reach the Access-Point to get an IP.

            3.  AP with DHCP server provides the capability of keeping the "network" togethe.
                 The question is "will the Access-Point provide the routing capability without the internet?"
                 With APRSIS32 as the ISserver, it would be the gateway for the other clients.

            4. Yes, all connected are part of the infrustructure - of course filtering could limited that if needed.

            I'm sure Lynn (and many others) could be more specific.  They seem to have more experience in this area - from previous posts.

            Robert Giuliano
            KB8RCO

            ---------------------------------------------

            From: Greg D <ko6th.greg@...>
            To: aprsisce@yahoogroups.com
            Sent: Monday, May 27, 2013 12:57 AM
            Subject: [aprsisce] EMCOMM communications setup suggestion?

             
            Hi folks,

            I turned on the radio to our local repeater this evening, just in time
            to hear the end of a Net discussion about setting up computers for
            direct communication. One person said you can do this now (implying
            newly) with Windows 8 over Wi-Fi. Since I know something about Wi-Fi
            communication (it's an occupational liability), I chimed in...

            What they want to do is be able the sending of messages from one
            computer to another, so they were talking about the link technology.
            One person had asked, before I joined, about the client software, and
            wouldn't you need a server somewhere to make this all work. And what
            were the options as other services (e.g. Internet) came on line.

            After chatting for a bit and understanding what they were after, it
            sounded to me like what APRS was precisely created for. Whether over a
            TNC-based RF channel, APRS-IS internet connectivity, or a combination of
            both, APRS gives the client-to-client messaging they are after. And
            also all that situational awareness that they'd want as well.

            So, back to the original topics of this email:

            1. Given a bunch of Laptops I see two ways to get link-level
            connectivity; with a central Wi-Fi access point (typically a home
            router/AP), and ad-hoc. With the central AP, each laptop gets its own
            IP Address from the AP, and can talk between any and all of them at an
            IP level. I am not quite as familiar with ad-hoc, especially as it
            pertains to Windows 8, but I'm pretty sure it dates back to at least
            Windows XP, if not earlier, and suspect the same client to client
            communication can be accomplished with a sufficient bit of fiddling.
            Does anyone have more experience with ad-hoc mode to confirm this? I
            know about the link-level protocol; it's the Windows (and MAC for that
            matter) end of things I'm a bit fuzzy about.

            2. More importantly, and pertaining to this group... Once one has a
            link between PCs, what client software to use? APRSIS immediately comes
            to mind. I am thinking that one of the PCs could be set up as the
            "master", enabling its APRSIS Server, and all the other PCs would
            connect to it. Would this enable the same messaging connectivity among
            all clients, so any and all of them could message each other, and all of
            the other APRS shared-awareness stuff that goes with APRS? Or is there
            a directedness about the communication such that leaf-level clients can
            only talk to the "server", and not to each other?

            3. My leaning is toward the "central AP" as the interconnect of choice,
            as most PCs are already set up for the proper communication model (DHCP
            and all that), and if Internet connectivity becomes available, one
            already has the infrastructure to use it. If so, would that master node
            automatically become a gateway to the IS, transparently enabling the
            global infrastructure for all of the clients?

            4. Incluiding the RF infrastructure should be simply a matter of having
            one or more of the PCs be connected to a TNC and radio. If so, do the
            RF clients and anyone they hear also become automatic members of the
            whole infrastructure, able to talk to anyone else?

            Thanks,

            Greg KO6TH



          • Greg D
            Hi Don, I missed most of the Net, but that s the essence of what I understand they are looking to do. They were only talking about messaging between the PCs,
            Message 5 of 15 , May 27, 2013
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              Hi Don,

              I missed most of the Net, but that's the essence of what I understand they are looking to do.  They were only talking about messaging between the PCs, but I can guess all of what that can expand to (your point #1) could apply.

              My own spin would be that the communications should seamlessly expand with whatever connectivity is available.  So if there are RF clients, they should be able to participate.  Same with IS (Internet).  If we do this right, they shouldn't have to be aware of, or re-configure for, a change in connectivity.  That's partly why I'm leaning away from using ad-hoc Wi-Fi for the network.  It requires a change to enable it, and would have to be undone to bring in IS when it becomes available.

              Your point #4 is a really good one - hadn't considered that.  If we use aprsis/32 software, the logging is built in, but it would need to be enabled.  Thanks for the reminder!

              Greg.
               

              Don Rolph wrote:
               
              In reading this I am confused.

              It seems you are trying to setup a chat system for perhaps an EOC.  Is that your goal?

              Some questions:

              1) do you want the traffic to be: point to point or broadcast?
              - incident intelligence?
              - tactical communications?
              - logistical communications?
              - command communications?

              2) how should the system behave when the internet returns?

              3) what is the role of RF stations in this model?

              4) Do you need permanent records?

              73,
              AB1PH
              Don Rolph


              On Mon, May 27, 2013 at 12:57 AM, Greg D <ko6th.greg@...> wrote:
               

              Hi folks,

              I turned on the radio to our local repeater this evening, just in time
              to hear the end of a Net discussion about setting up computers for
              direct communication. One person said you can do this now (implying
              newly) with Windows 8 over Wi-Fi. Since I know something about Wi-Fi
              communication (it's an occupational liability), I chimed in...

              What they want to do is be able the sending of messages from one
              computer to another, so they were talking about the link technology.
              One person had asked, before I joined, about the client software, and
              wouldn't you need a server somewhere to make this all work. And what
              were the options as other services (e.g. Internet) came on line.

              After chatting for a bit and understanding what they were after, it
              sounded to me like what APRS was precisely created for. Whether over a
              TNC-based RF channel, APRS-IS internet connectivity, or a combination of
              both, APRS gives the client-to-client messaging they are after. And
              also all that situational awareness that they'd want as well.

              So, back to the original topics of this email:

              1. Given a bunch of Laptops I see two ways to get link-level
              connectivity; with a central Wi-Fi access point (typically a home
              router/AP), and ad-hoc. With the central AP, each laptop gets its own
              IP Address from the AP, and can talk between any and all of them at an
              IP level. I am not quite as familiar with ad-hoc, especially as it
              pertains to Windows 8, but I'm pretty sure it dates back to at least
              Windows XP, if not earlier, and suspect the same client to client
              communication can be accomplished with a sufficient bit of fiddling.
              Does anyone have more experience with ad-hoc mode to confirm this? I
              know about the link-level protocol; it's the Windows (and MAC for that
              matter) end of things I'm a bit fuzzy about.

              2. More importantly, and pertaining to this group... Once one has a
              link between PCs, what client software to use? APRSIS immediately comes
              to mind. I am thinking that one of the PCs could be set up as the
              "master", enabling its APRSIS Server, and all the other PCs would
              connect to it. Would this enable the same messaging connectivity among
              all clients, so any and all of them could message each other, and all of
              the other APRS shared-awareness stuff that goes with APRS? Or is there
              a directedness about the communication such that leaf-level clients can
              only talk to the "server", and not to each other?

              3. My leaning is toward the "central AP" as the interconnect of choice,
              as most PCs are already set up for the proper communication model (DHCP
              and all that), and if Internet connectivity becomes available, one
              already has the infrastructure to use it. If so, would that master node
              automatically become a gateway to the IS, transparently enabling the
              global infrastructure for all of the clients?

              4. Incluiding the RF infrastructure should be simply a matter of having
              one or more of the PCs be connected to a TNC and radio. If so, do the
              RF clients and anyone they hear also become automatic members of the
              whole infrastructure, able to talk to anyone else?

              Thanks,

              Greg KO6TH


            • Greg D
              Hi Rob, Some additional thoughts, below. Thanks for your help, Greg KO6TH Rob Giuliano wrote: 2. This is definitely possible. They (clients computers) may need
              Message 6 of 15 , May 27, 2013
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                Hi Rob,

                Some additional thoughts, below.  Thanks for your help,

                Greg  KO6TH


                Rob Giuliano wrote:
                 

                2. This is definitely possible.
                    They (clients computers) may need the server, but they can definitely talk to each other with APRSIS32 clients as a group or individually.
                     (they won't, or at least won't as much, if the network goes RF). 
                    APRSIS Server "AT" or "ON" the ACCESS point would ensure all computers can reach it, since they need to reach the Access-Point to get an IP.

                3.  AP with DHCP server provides the capability of keeping the "network" togethe.
                     The question is "will the Access-Point provide the routing capability without the internet?"
                     With APRSIS32 as the ISserver, it would be the gateway for the other clients.

                4. Yes, all connected are part of the infrustructure - of course filtering could limited that if needed.


                So, APRSIS/32 can't run on the AP itself, at least not the kind of AP that's typically available.  What I am imagining is that one of the PCs would be designated as the master, and would run APRSIS/32 with its server port open.  All the other PCs would connect to that PC's APRSIS32 instance.  The question is whether all of the so-connected PCs would be able to talk to each other as well as the master, any RF-connected clients via that master PC or other PCs, and the Internet IS through the access point router when it comes up.  I think you said "yes" to all of the above.  Right?  (Note that to do this, the Master's copy of APRSIS/32 would need to replicate the APRS traffic to all of the connected instances below it, not just forward the message to the Internet port (which wouldn't go anywhere if the Internet is down).


                I'm sure Lynn (and many others) could be more specific.  They seem to have more experience in this area - from previous posts.

                Lynn?


                Robert Giuliano
                KB8RCO

                ---------------------------------------------

                From: Greg D <ko6th.greg@...>
                To: aprsisce@yahoogroups.com
                Sent: Monday, May 27, 2013 12:57 AM
                Subject: [aprsisce] EMCOMM communications setup suggestion?

                 
                Hi folks,

                I turned on the radio to our local repeater this evening, just in time
                to hear the end of a Net discussion about setting up computers for
                direct communication. One person said you can do this now (implying
                newly) with Windows 8 over Wi-Fi. Since I know something about Wi-Fi
                communication (it's an occupational liability), I chimed in...

                What they want to do is be able the sending of messages from one
                computer to another, so they were talking about the link technology.
                One person had asked, before I joined, about the client software, and
                wouldn't you need a server somewhere to make this all work. And what
                were the options as other services (e.g. Internet) came on line.

                After chatting for a bit and understanding what they were after, it
                sounded to me like what APRS was precisely created for. Whether over a
                TNC-based RF channel, APRS-IS internet connectivity, or a combination of
                both, APRS gives the client-to-client messaging they are after. And
                also all that situational awareness that they'd want as well.

                So, back to the original topics of this email:

                1. Given a bunch of Laptops I see two ways to get link-level
                connectivity; with a central Wi-Fi access point (typically a home
                router/AP), and ad-hoc. With the central AP, each laptop gets its own
                IP Address from the AP, and can talk between any and all of them at an
                IP level. I am not quite as familiar with ad-hoc, especially as it
                pertains to Windows 8, but I'm pretty sure it dates back to at least
                Windows XP, if not earlier, and suspect the same client to client
                communication can be accomplished with a sufficient bit of fiddling.
                Does anyone have more experience with ad-hoc mode to confirm this? I
                know about the link-level protocol; it's the Windows (and MAC for that
                matter) end of things I'm a bit fuzzy about.

                2. More importantly, and pertaining to this group... Once one has a
                link between PCs, what client software to use? APRSIS immediately comes
                to mind. I am thinking that one of the PCs could be set up as the
                "master", enabling its APRSIS Server, and all the other PCs would
                connect to it. Would this enable the same messaging connectivity among
                all clients, so any and all of them could message each other, and all of
                the other APRS shared-awareness stuff that goes with APRS? Or is there
                a directedness about the communication such that leaf-level clients can
                only talk to the "server", and not to each other?

                3. My leaning is toward the "central AP" as the interconnect of choice,
                as most PCs are already set up for the proper communication model (DHCP
                and all that), and if Internet connectivity becomes available, one
                already has the infrastructure to use it. If so, would that master node
                automatically become a gateway to the IS, transparently enabling the
                global infrastructure for all of the clients?

                4. Incluiding the RF infrastructure should be simply a matter of having
                one or more of the PCs be connected to a TNC and radio. If so, do the
                RF clients and anyone they hear also become automatic members of the
                whole infrastructure, able to talk to anyone else?

                Thanks,

                Greg KO6TH



              • Greg D
                Hi Ron, Oh, yeah. I had forgotten about this. I think this might have a place in what they are thinking, but I d like to start with something a whole lot less
                Message 7 of 15 , May 27, 2013
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                  Hi Ron,

                  Oh, yeah.  I had forgotten about this.

                  I think this might have a place in what they are thinking, but I'd like to start with something a whole lot less complicated.  A single home AP box with 802.11n connectivity can cover a pretty wide area too start with.  Let me see if that will do it for them.  If not, this could expand the coverage.

                  Thanks,

                  Greg  KO6TH


                  Ron Wenig wrote:
                   

                  Hi Greg,

                  Have you looked into the HSMM-MESH project.  It uses linksys routers, 2.4 GHz, to create a mesh network using firmware that was created for this purpose.  You set up as many mesh units as you can to expand coverage.  You can install an internet chat server program in one of the routers and use chat clients to talk to each other along with file transfer and video and voice over ip programs.  There are a lot of emcomm groups using this.  More information here:

                  http://www.hsmm-mesh.org/

                  73, Ron ny3j

                  On 5/27/2013 12:57 AM, Greg D wrote:
                   

                  Hi folks,

                  I turned on the radio to our local repeater this evening, just in time
                  to hear the end of a Net discussion about setting up computers for
                  direct communication. One person said you can do this now (implying
                  newly) with Windows 8 over Wi-Fi. Since I know something about Wi-Fi
                  communication (it's an occupational liability), I chimed in...


                • Ron Wenig
                  Greg, That s a good point. Our ARES group is looking at a variety of ways of moving digital traffic and APRS messaging is one of them. I m going to be
                  Message 8 of 15 , May 27, 2013
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                    Greg,

                    That's a good point.  Our ARES group is looking at a variety of ways of moving digital traffic and APRS messaging is one of them.  I'm going to be interested in what your group comes up with.

                    Ron ny3j

                    On 5/27/2013 2:49 PM, Greg D wrote:
                     

                    Hi Ron,

                    Oh, yeah.  I had forgotten about this.

                    I think this might have a place in what they are thinking, but I'd like to start with something a whole lot less complicated.  A single home AP box with 802.11n connectivity can cover a pretty wide area too start with.  Let me see if that will do it for them.  If not, this could expand the coverage.

                    Thanks,

                    Greg  KO6TH


                    Ron Wenig wrote:

                     

                    Hi Greg,

                    Have you looked into the HSMM-MESH project.  It uses linksys routers, 2.4 GHz, to create a mesh network using firmware that was created for this purpose.  You set up as many mesh units as you can to expand coverage.  You can install an internet chat server program in one of the routers and use chat clients to talk to each other along with file transfer and video and voice over ip programs.  There are a lot of emcomm groups using this.  More information here:

                    http://www.hsmm-mesh.org/

                    73, Ron ny3j

                    On 5/27/2013 12:57 AM, Greg D wrote:
                     

                    Hi folks,

                    I turned on the radio to our local repeater this evening, just in time
                    to hear the end of a Net discussion about setting up computers for
                    direct communication. One person said you can do this now (implying
                    newly) with Windows 8 over Wi-Fi. Since I know something about Wi-Fi
                    communication (it's an occupational liability), I chimed in...



                  • Rob Giuliano
                    APRSIS32 may be able to run on the AP itself, if the AP is something like a Linux box (with WINE) setup as an access point / router / etc. (rather than using
                    Message 9 of 15 , May 27, 2013
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                      APRSIS32 may be able to run on the AP itself, if the AP is something like a Linux box (with WINE) setup as an access point / router / etc. (rather than using a Linksys, DLink, or other more limited router), but that may be more effort than you are looking at.  The comment was more about the APRSIS server box needing to be centeral as it will be getting a lot of traffic in both directions, so the more computers "seeing" it directly, the better.
                       
                      MASTER -> APRSIS with IS-server or Local Server (I haven't used this one yet).
                          All other computers on the network would set their IS-Server "IP or DNS" set to the MASTER
                       
                      With this connection, and all the RF->IS / IS->RF  set, the computers should be able to communicate through anything on the APRSIS32 "Message" menu item:
                         Send Message, Chat, Announcements, Bulletins, etc (e-mail will need internet).
                       
                      I have done this wired in my house ) well actually, wired/wireless while my internet connection was down.  I could still send messages that came up on the other computers.
                       
                      Robert Giuliano
                      KB8RCO


                      ---------------------------------------------
                      From: Greg D <ko6th.greg@...>
                      To: aprsisce@yahoogroups.com
                      Sent: Monday, May 27, 2013 2:46 PM
                      Subject: Re: [aprsisce] EMCOMM communications setup suggestion?
                       
                      Hi Rob,

                      Some additional thoughts, below.  Thanks for your help,

                      Greg  KO6TH


                      Rob Giuliano wrote:
                       
                      2. This is definitely possible.     They (clients computers) may need the server, but they can definitely talk to each other with APRSIS32 clients as a group or individually.      (they won't, or at least won't as much, if the network goes RF).      APRSIS Server "AT" or "ON" the ACCESS point would ensure all computers can reach it, since they need to reach the Access-Point to get an IP.

                      3.  AP with DHCP server provides the capability of keeping the "network" togethe.      The question is "will the Access-Point provide the routing capability without the internet?"      With APRSIS32 as the ISserver, it would be the gateway for the other clients. 4. Yes, all connected are part of the infrustructure - of course filtering could limited that if needed.
                      So, APRSIS/32 can't run on the AP itself, at least not the kind of AP that's typically available.  What I am imagining is that one of the PCs would be designated as the master, and would run APRSIS/32 with its server port open.  All the other PCs would connect to that PC's APRSIS32 instance.  The question is whether all of the so-connected PCs would be able to talk to each other as well as the master, any RF-connected clients via that master PC or other PCs, and the Internet IS through the access point router when it comes up.  I think you said "yes" to all of the above.  Right?  (Note that to do this, the Master's copy of APRSIS/32 would need to replicate the APRS traffic to all of the connected instances below it, not just forward the message to the Internet port (which wouldn't go anywhere if the Internet is down).
                      I'm sure Lynn (and many others) could be more specific.  They seem to have more experience in this area - from previous posts.
                      Lynn?

                      Robert Giuliano KB8RCO
                      ---------------------------------------------
                      From: Greg D mailto:ko6th.greg@...
                      To: aprsisce@yahoogroups.com
                      Sent: Monday, May 27, 2013 12:57 AM
                      Subject: [aprsisce] EMCOMM communications setup suggestion?
                       
                      Hi folks, I turned on the radio to our local repeater this evening, just in time to hear the end of a Net discussion about setting up computers for direct communication. One person said you can do this now (implying newly) with Windows 8 over Wi-Fi. Since I know something about Wi-Fi communication (it's an occupational liability), I chimed in... What they want to do is be able the sending of messages from one computer to another, so they were talking about the link technology. One person had asked, before I joined, about the client software, and wouldn't you need a server somewhere to make this all work. And what were the options as other services (e.g. Internet) came on line. After chatting for a bit and understanding what they were after, it sounded to me like what APRS was precisely created for. Whether over a TNC-based RF channel, APRS-IS internet connectivity, or a combination of both, APRS gives the client-to-client messaging they are after. And also all that situational awareness that they'd want as well. So, back to the original topics of this email: 1. Given a bunch of Laptops I see two ways to get link-level connectivity; with a central Wi-Fi access point (typically a home router/AP), and ad-hoc. With the central AP, each laptop gets its own IP Address from the AP, and can talk between any and all of them at an IP level. I am not quite as familiar with ad-hoc, especially as it pertains to Windows 8, but I'm pretty sure it dates back to at least Windows XP, if not earlier, and suspect the same client to client communication can be accomplished with a sufficient bit of fiddling. Does anyone have more experience with ad-hoc mode to confirm this? I know about the link-level protocol; it's the Windows (and MAC for that matter) end of things I'm a bit fuzzy about. 2. More importantly, and pertaining to this group... Once one has a link between PCs, what client software to use? APRSIS immediately comes to mind. I am thinking that one of the PCs could be set up as the "master", enabling its APRSIS Server, and all the other PCs would connect to it. Would this enable the same messaging connectivity among all clients, so any and all of them could message each other, and all of the other APRS shared-awareness stuff that goes with APRS? Or is there a directedness about the communication such that leaf-level clients can only talk to the "server", and not to each other? 3. My leaning is toward the "central AP" as the interconnect of choice, as most PCs are already set up for the proper communication model (DHCP and all that), and if Internet connectivity becomes available, one already has the infrastructure to use it. If so, would that master node automatically become a gateway to the IS, transparently enabling the global infrastructure for all of the clients? 4. Incluiding the RF infrastructure should be simply a matter of having one or more of the PCs be connected to a TNC and radio. If so, do the RF clients and anyone they hear also become automatic members of the whole infrastructure, able to talk to anyone else? Thanks, Greg KO6TH
                    • Lynn W Deffenbaugh (Mr)
                      ... Announcements needs the centralized, APRS-IS-resident ANSRVR, so you d either need direct APRS-IS, or an operational IGate somewhere within RF range. Lynn
                      Message 10 of 15 , May 27, 2013
                      • 0 Attachment
                        On 5/27/2013 7:27 PM, Rob Giuliano wrote:
                           Send Message, Chat, Announcements, Bulletins, etc (e-mail will need internet).

                        Announcements needs the centralized, APRS-IS-resident ANSRVR, so you'd either need direct APRS-IS, or an operational IGate somewhere within RF range.

                        Lynn (D) - KJ4ERJ - Author of APRSISCE for Windows Mobile and Win32

                      • Greg D
                        Hi Lynn, Ok, that makes sense for ANSRVR or CQ functions. But isn t there some sort of broadcast message capability within APRS natively? I thought ANSRVR and
                        Message 11 of 15 , May 27, 2013
                        • 0 Attachment
                          Hi Lynn,

                          Ok, that makes sense for ANSRVR or CQ functions.  But isn't there some sort of broadcast message capability within APRS natively?  I thought ANSRVR and CQ were there to provide subscription-based filtering of the traffic.

                          Even if not, if I have one PC with APRSIS/32 running as a server, and several other PCs connecting to it, all of them can message by call sign directly with each other, and to any clients connected by TNC / RF to any of the PCs.  And all of them will have a shared map of the situation, with anyone being able to create an object that all will see.  Right?

                          Can the messages be to tactical call signs in addition to real ones?

                          Are there any limits as to how many clients can attach to a single APRSIS/32 server instance?

                          Thanks,

                          Greg  KO6TH


                          Lynn W Deffenbaugh (Mr) wrote:
                           

                          On 5/27/2013 7:27 PM, Rob Giuliano wrote:
                             Send Message, Chat, Announcements, Bulletins, etc (e-mail will need internet).

                          Announcements needs the centralized, APRS-IS-resident ANSRVR, so you'd either need direct APRS-IS, or an operational IGate somewhere within RF range.

                          Lynn (D) - KJ4ERJ - Author of APRSISCE for Windows Mobile and Win32

                      • Greg D
                        Hi Rob, Ok, right. I was thinking that might be what you had in mind, but it s far beyond what this team would want to deal with. It might be interesting to
                        Message 12 of 15 , May 27, 2013
                        • 0 Attachment
                          Hi Rob,

                          Ok, right.  I was thinking that might be what you had in mind, but it's far beyond what this team would want to deal with.  It might be interesting to port a headless APRS server to OpenWRT to serve this function...

                          So, I think we're good...  (assuming Lynn agrees...)

                          Thanks,

                          Greg  KO6TH


                          Rob Giuliano wrote:
                           
                          APRSIS32 may be able to run on the AP itself, if the AP is something like a Linux box (with WINE) setup as an access point / router / etc. (rather than using a Linksys, DLink, or other more limited router), but that may be more effort than you are looking at.  The comment was more about the APRSIS server box needing to be centeral as it will be getting a lot of traffic in both directions, so the more computers "seeing" it directly, the better.
                           
                          MASTER -> APRSIS with IS-server or Local Server (I haven't used this one yet).
                              All other computers on the network would set their IS-Server "IP or DNS" set to the MASTER
                           
                          With this connection, and all the RF->IS / IS->RF  set, the computers should be able to communicate through anything on the APRSIS32 "Message" menu item:
                             Send Message, Chat, Announcements, Bulletins, etc (e-mail will need internet).
                           
                          I have done this wired in my house ) well actually, wired/wireless while my internet connection was down.  I could still send messages that came up on the other computers.
                           
                          Robert Giuliano
                          KB8RCO


                          ---------------------------------------------
                          From: Greg D <ko6th.greg@...>
                          To: aprsisce@yahoogroups.com
                          Sent: Monday, May 27, 2013 2:46 PM
                          Subject: Re: [aprsisce] EMCOMM communications setup suggestion?
                           
                          Hi Rob,

                          Some additional thoughts, below.  Thanks for your help,

                          Greg  KO6TH


                          Rob Giuliano wrote:
                           
                          2. This is definitely possible.     They (clients computers) may need the server, but they can definitely talk to each other with APRSIS32 clients as a group or individually.      (they won't, or at least won't as much, if the network goes RF).      APRSIS Server "AT" or "ON" the ACCESS point would ensure all computers can reach it, since they need to reach the Access-Point to get an IP.

                          3.  AP with DHCP server provides the capability of keeping the "network" togethe.      The question is "will the Access-Point provide the routing capability without the internet?"      With APRSIS32 as the ISserver, it would be the gateway for the other clients. 4. Yes, all connected are part of the infrustructure - of course filtering could limited that if needed.
                          So, APRSIS/32 can't run on the AP itself, at least not the kind of AP that's typically available.  What I am imagining is that one of the PCs would be designated as the master, and would run APRSIS/32 with its server port open.  All the other PCs would connect to that PC's APRSIS32 instance.  The question is whether all of the so-connected PCs would be able to talk to each other as well as the master, any RF-connected clients via that master PC or other PCs, and the Internet IS through the access point router when it comes up.  I think you said "yes" to all of the above.  Right?  (Note that to do this, the Master's copy of APRSIS/32 would need to replicate the APRS traffic to all of the connected instances below it, not just forward the message to the Internet port (which wouldn't go anywhere if the Internet is down).
                          I'm sure Lynn (and many others) could be more specific.  They seem to have more experience in this area - from previous posts.
                          Lynn?

                          Robert Giuliano KB8RCO
                          ---------------------------------------------
                          From: Greg D mailto:ko6th.greg@...
                          To: aprsisce@yahoogroups.com
                          Sent: Monday, May 27, 2013 12:57 AM
                          Subject: [aprsisce] EMCOMM communications setup suggestion?
                           
                          Hi folks, I turned on the radio to our local repeater this evening, just in time to hear the end of a Net discussion about setting up computers for direct communication. One person said you can do this now (implying newly) with Windows 8 over Wi-Fi. Since I know something about Wi-Fi communication (it's an occupational liability), I chimed in... What they want to do is be able the sending of messages from one computer to another, so they were talking about the link technology. One person had asked, before I joined, about the client software, and wouldn't you need a server somewhere to make this all work. And what were the options as other services (e.g. Internet) came on line. After chatting for a bit and understanding what they were after, it sounded to me like what APRS was precisely created for. Whether over a TNC-based RF channel, APRS-IS internet connectivity, or a combination of both, APRS gives the client-to-client messaging they are after. And also all that situational awareness that they'd want as well. So, back to the original topics of this email: 1. Given a bunch of Laptops I see two ways to get link-level connectivity; with a central Wi-Fi access point (typically a home router/AP), and ad-hoc. With the central AP, each laptop gets its own IP Address from the AP, and can talk between any and all of them at an IP level. I am not quite as familiar with ad-hoc, especially as it pertains to Windows 8, but I'm pretty sure it dates back to at least Windows XP, if not earlier, and suspect the same client to client communication can be accomplished with a sufficient bit of fiddling. Does anyone have more experience with ad-hoc mode to confirm this? I know about the link-level protocol; it's the Windows (and MAC for that matter) end of things I'm a bit fuzzy about. 2. More importantly, and pertaining to this group... Once one has a link between PCs, what client software to use? APRSIS immediately comes to mind. I am thinking that one of the PCs could be set up as the "master", enabling its APRSIS Server, and all the other PCs would connect to it. Would this enable the same messaging connectivity among all clients, so any and all of them could message each other, and all of the other APRS shared-awareness stuff that goes with APRS? Or is there a directedness about the communication such that leaf-level clients can only talk to the "server", and not to each other? 3. My leaning is toward the "central AP" as the interconnect of choice, as most PCs are already set up for the proper communication model (DHCP and all that), and if Internet connectivity becomes available, one already has the infrastructure to use it. If so, would that master node automatically become a gateway to the IS, transparently enabling the global infrastructure for all of the clients? 4. Incluiding the RF infrastructure should be simply a matter of having one or more of the PCs be connected to a TNC and radio. If so, do the RF clients and anyone they hear also become automatic members of the whole infrastructure, able to talk to anyone else? Thanks, Greg KO6TH
                        • Rob Giuliano
                          there are several, but they may not have the capability of APRSIS32. I ve used APRSd on OpenWRT and I know there are others. A search on APRS on WRT should
                          Message 13 of 15 , May 27, 2013
                          • 0 Attachment
                            there are several, but they may not have the capability of APRSIS32.
                            I've used APRSd on OpenWRT and I know there are others. A search on APRS on WRT should give several hits.

                            I'd still go with APRSIS32 (and have)
                            Robert Giuliano
                            KB8RCO

                            ---------------------------------------------

                            From: Greg D <ko6th.greg@...>
                            To: aprsisce@yahoogroups.com
                            Sent: Monday, May 27, 2013 8:38 PM
                            Subject: Re: [aprsisce] EMCOMM communications setup suggestion?

                             
                            Hi Rob,

                            Ok, right.  I was thinking that might be what you had in mind, but it's far beyond what this team would want to deal with.  It might be interesting to port a headless APRS server to OpenWRT to serve this function...

                            So, I think we're good...  (assuming Lynn agrees...)

                            Thanks,

                            Greg  KO6TH


                            Rob Giuliano wrote:
                             
                            APRSIS32 may be able to run on the AP itself, if the AP is something like a Linux box (with WINE) setup as an access point / router / etc. (rather than using a Linksys, DLink, or other more limited router), but that may be more effort than you are looking at.  The comment was more about the APRSIS server box needing to be centeral as it will be getting a lot of traffic in both directions, so the more computers "seeing" it directly, the better.
                             
                            MASTER -> APRSIS with IS-server or Local Server (I haven't used this one yet).
                                All other computers on the network would set their IS-Server "IP or DNS" set to the MASTER
                             
                            With this connection, and all the RF->IS / IS->RF  set, the computers should be able to communicate through anything on the APRSIS32 "Message" menu item:
                               Send Message, Chat, Announcements, Bulletins, etc (e-mail will need internet).
                             
                            I have done this wired in my house ) well actually, wired/wireless while my internet connection was down.  I could still send messages that came up on the other computers.
                             
                            Robert Giuliano
                            KB8RCO


                            ---------------------------------------------
                            From: Greg D <ko6th.greg@...>
                            To: aprsisce@yahoogroups.com
                            Sent: Monday, May 27, 2013 2:46 PM
                            Subject: Re: [aprsisce] EMCOMM communications setup suggestion?
                             
                            Hi Rob,

                            Some additional thoughts, below.  Thanks for your help,

                            Greg  KO6TH


                            Rob Giuliano wrote:
                             
                            2. This is definitely possible.     They (clients computers) may need the server, but they can definitely talk to each other with APRSIS32 clients as a group or individually.      (they won't, or at least won't as much, if the network goes RF).      APRSIS Server "AT" or "ON" the ACCESS point would ensure all computers can reach it, since they need to reach the Access-Point to get an IP.

                            3.  AP with DHCP server provides the capability of keeping the "network" togethe.      The question is "will the Access-Point provide the routing capability without the internet?"      With APRSIS32 as the ISserver, it would be the gateway for the other clients. 4. Yes, all connected are part of the infrustructure - of course filtering could limited that if needed.
                            So, APRSIS/32 can't run on the AP itself, at least not the kind of AP that's typically available.  What I am imagining is that one of the PCs would be designated as the master, and would run APRSIS/32 with its server port open.  All the other PCs would connect to that PC's APRSIS32 instance.  The question is whether all of the so-connected PCs would be able to talk to each other as well as the master, any RF-connected clients via that master PC or other PCs, and the Internet IS through the access point router when it comes up.  I think you said "yes" to all of the above.  Right?  (Note that to do this, the Master's copy of APRSIS/32 would need to replicate the APRS traffic to all of the connected instances below it, not just forward the message to the Internet port (which wouldn't go anywhere if the Internet is down).
                            I'm sure Lynn (and many others) could be more specific.  They seem to have more experience in this area - from previous posts.
                            Lynn?

                            Robert Giuliano KB8RCO
                            ---------------------------------------------
                            From: Greg D mailto:ko6th.greg@...
                            To: aprsisce@yahoogroups.com
                            Sent: Monday, May 27, 2013 12:57 AM
                            Subject: [aprsisce] EMCOMM communications setup suggestion?
                             
                            Hi folks, I turned on the radio to our local repeater this evening, just in time to hear the end of a Net discussion about setting up computers for direct communication. One person said you can do this now (implying newly) with Windows 8 over Wi-Fi. Since I know something about Wi-Fi communication (it's an occupational liability), I chimed in... What they want to do is be able the sending of messages from one computer to another, so they were talking about the link technology. One person had asked, before I joined, about the client software, and wouldn't you need a server somewhere to make this all work. And what were the options as other services (e.g. Internet) came on line. After chatting for a bit and understanding what they were after, it sounded to me like what APRS was precisely created for. Whether over a TNC-based RF channel, APRS-IS internet connectivity, or a combination of both, APRS gives the client-to-client messaging they are after. And also all that situational awareness that they'd want as well. So, back to the original topics of this email: 1. Given a bunch of Laptops I see two ways to get link-level connectivity; with a central Wi-Fi access point (typically a home router/AP), and ad-hoc. With the central AP, each laptop gets its own IP Address from the AP, and can talk between any and all of them at an IP level. I am not quite as familiar with ad-hoc, especially as it pertains to Windows 8, but I'm pretty sure it dates back to at least Windows XP, if not earlier, and suspect the same client to client communication can be accomplished with a sufficient bit of fiddling. Does anyone have more experience with ad-hoc mode to confirm this? I know about the link-level protocol; it's the Windows (and MAC for that matter) end of things I'm a bit fuzzy about. 2. More importantly, and pertaining to this group... Once one has a link between PCs, what client software to use? APRSIS immediately comes to mind. I am thinking that one of the PCs could be set up as the "master", enabling its APRSIS Server, and all the other PCs would connect to it. Would this enable the same messaging connectivity among all clients, so any and all of them could message each other, and all of the other APRS shared-awareness stuff that goes with APRS? Or is there a directedness about the communication such that leaf-level clients can only talk to the "server", and not to each other? 3. My leaning is toward the "central AP" as the interconnect of choice, as most PCs are already set up for the proper communication model (DHCP and all that), and if Internet connectivity becomes available, one already has the infrastructure to use it. If so, would that master node automatically become a gateway to the IS, transparently enabling the global infrastructure for all of the clients? 4. Incluiding the RF infrastructure should be simply a matter of having one or more of the PCs be connected to a TNC and radio. If so, do the RF clients and anyone they hear also become automatic members of the whole infrastructure, able to talk to anyone else? Thanks, Greg KO6TH


                          • Matthew Willis
                            I have a 4-radio digi plus igate running off a WRT54GL using OpenWRT and aprx. Since you can run the routers on 12v, they are great for this job. -lilmatt
                            Message 14 of 15 , May 28, 2013
                            • 0 Attachment
                              I have a 4-radio digi plus igate running off a WRT54GL using OpenWRT and aprx.  Since you can run the routers on 12v, they are great for this job.  

                              -lilmatt
                              N2PYI

                              On May 27, 2013, at 10:59 PM, Rob Giuliano <kb8rco@...> wrote:

                               

                              there are several, but they may not have the capability of APRSIS32.
                              I've used APRSd on OpenWRT and I know there are others. A search on APRS on WRT should give several hits.

                              I'd still go with APRSIS32 (and have)
                              Robert Giuliano
                              KB8RCO

                              ---------------------------------------------

                              From: Greg D <ko6th.greg@...>
                              To: aprsisce@yahoogroups.com
                              Sent: Monday, May 27, 2013 8:38 PM
                              Subject: Re: [aprsisce] EMCOMM communications setup suggestion?

                               
                              Hi Rob,

                              Ok, right.  I was thinking that might be what you had in mind, but it's far beyond what this team would want to deal with.  It might be interesting to port a headless APRS server to OpenWRT to serve this function...

                              So, I think we're good...  (assuming Lynn agrees...)

                              Thanks,

                              Greg  KO6TH


                              Rob Giuliano wrote:
                               
                              APRSIS32 may be able to run on the AP itself, if the AP is something like a Linux box (with WINE) setup as an access point / router / etc. (rather than using a Linksys, DLink, or other more limited router), but that may be more effort than you are looking at.  The comment was more about the APRSIS server box needing to be centeral as it will be getting a lot of traffic in both directions, so the more computers "seeing" it directly, the better.
                               
                              MASTER -> APRSIS with IS-server or Local Server (I haven't used this one yet).
                                  All other computers on the network would set their IS-Server "IP or DNS" set to the MASTER
                               
                              With this connection, and all the RF->IS / IS->RF  set, the computers should be able to communicate through anything on the APRSIS32 "Message" menu item:
                                 Send Message, Chat, Announcements, Bulletins, etc (e-mail will need internet).
                               
                              I have done this wired in my house ) well actually, wired/wireless while my internet connection was down.  I could still send messages that came up on the other computers.
                               
                              Robert Giuliano
                              KB8RCO


                              ---------------------------------------------
                              From: Greg D <ko6th.greg@...>
                              To: aprsisce@yahoogroups.com
                              Sent: Monday, May 27, 2013 2:46 PM
                              Subject: Re: [aprsisce] EMCOMM communications setup suggestion?
                               
                              Hi Rob,

                              Some additional thoughts, below.  Thanks for your help,

                              Greg  KO6TH


                              Rob Giuliano wrote:
                               
                              2. This is definitely possible.     They (clients computers) may need the server, but they can definitely talk to each other with APRSIS32 clients as a group or individually.      (they won't, or at least won't as much, if the network goes RF).      APRSIS Server "AT" or "ON" the ACCESS point would ensure all computers can reach it, since they need to reach the Access-Point to get an IP.

                              3.  AP with DHCP server provides the capability of keeping the "network" togethe.      The question is "will the Access-Point provide the routing capability without the internet?"      With APRSIS32 as the ISserver, it would be the gateway for the other clients. 4. Yes, all connected are part of the infrustructure - of course filtering could limited that if needed.
                              So, APRSIS/32 can't run on the AP itself, at least not the kind of AP that's typically available.  What I am imagining is that one of the PCs would be designated as the master, and would run APRSIS/32 with its server port open.  All the other PCs would connect to that PC's APRSIS32 instance.  The question is whether all of the so-connected PCs would be able to talk to each other as well as the master, any RF-connected clients via that master PC or other PCs, and the Internet IS through the access point router when it comes up.  I think you said "yes" to all of the above.  Right?  (Note that to do this, the Master's copy of APRSIS/32 would need to replicate the APRS traffic to all of the connected instances below it, not just forward the message to the Internet port (which wouldn't go anywhere if the Internet is down).
                              I'm sure Lynn (and many others) could be more specific.  They seem to have more experience in this area - from previous posts.
                              Lynn?

                              Robert Giuliano KB8RCO
                              ---------------------------------------------
                              From: Greg D mailto:ko6th.greg@...
                              To: aprsisce@yahoogroups.com
                              Sent: Monday, May 27, 2013 12:57 AM
                              Subject: [aprsisce] EMCOMM communications setup suggestion?
                               
                              Hi folks, I turned on the radio to our local repeater this evening, just in time to hear the end of a Net discussion about setting up computers for direct communication. One person said you can do this now (implying newly) with Windows 8 over Wi-Fi. Since I know something about Wi-Fi communication (it's an occupational liability), I chimed in... What they want to do is be able the sending of messages from one computer to another, so they were talking about the link technology. One person had asked, before I joined, about the client software, and wouldn't you need a server somewhere to make this all work. And what were the options as other services (e.g. Internet) came on line. After chatting for a bit and understanding what they were after, it sounded to me like what APRS was precisely created for. Whether over a TNC-based RF channel, APRS-IS internet connectivity, or a combination of both, APRS gives the client-to-client messaging they are after. And also all that situational awareness that they'd want as well. So, back to the original topics of this email: 1. Given a bunch of Laptops I see two ways to get link-level connectivity; with a central Wi-Fi access point (typically a home router/AP), and ad-hoc. With the central AP, each laptop gets its own IP Address from the AP, and can talk between any and all of them at an IP level. I am not quite as familiar with ad-hoc, especially as it pertains to Windows 8, but I'm pretty sure it dates back to at least Windows XP, if not earlier, and suspect the same client to client communication can be accomplished with a sufficient bit of fiddling. Does anyone have more experience with ad-hoc mode to confirm this? I know about the link-level protocol; it's the Windows (and MAC for that matter) end of things I'm a bit fuzzy about. 2. More importantly, and pertaining to this group... Once one has a link between PCs, what client software to use? APRSIS immediately comes to mind. I am thinking that one of the PCs could be set up as the "master", enabling its APRSIS Server, and all the other PCs would connect to it. Would this enable the same messaging connectivity among all clients, so any and all of them could message each other, and all of the other APRS shared-awareness stuff that goes with APRS? Or is there a directedness about the communication such that leaf-level clients can only talk to the "server", and not to each other? 3. My leaning is toward the "central AP" as the interconnect of choice, as most PCs are already set up for the proper communication model (DHCP and all that), and if Internet connectivity becomes available, one already has the infrastructure to use it. If so, would that master node automatically become a gateway to the IS, transparently enabling the global infrastructure for all of the clients? 4. Incluiding the RF infrastructure should be simply a matter of having one or more of the PCs be connected to a TNC and radio. If so, do the RF clients and anyone they hear also become automatic members of the whole infrastructure, able to talk to anyone else? Thanks, Greg KO6TH


                            • Rob Giuliano
                              Sorry - I meant aprx!    That was what I intsalled on my WRT54g.  It is offline now, but has the ability to connect TNC(s) through the 2 serial port
                              Message 15 of 15 , May 28, 2013
                              • 0 Attachment
                                Sorry - I meant aprx!
                                   That was what I intsalled on my WRT54g.  It is offline now, but has the ability to connect TNC(s) through the 2 serial port headers (although I have only used 1).
                                 
                                 
                                Thanks Matthew!
                                 
                                Robert Giuliano
                                KB8RCO


                                ---------------------------------------------
                                From: Matthew Willis <mattwillis@...>
                                To: "aprsisce@yahoogroups.com" <aprsisce@yahoogroups.com>
                                Sent: Tuesday, May 28, 2013 7:49 AM
                                Subject: Re: [aprsisce] EMCOMM communications setup suggestion?
                                 
                                I have a 4-radio digi plus igate running off a WRT54GL using OpenWRT and aprx.  Since you can run the routers on 12v, they are great for this job.  

                                -lilmatt
                                N2PYI On May 27, 2013, at 10:59 PM, Rob Giuliano <kb8rco@...> wrote:
                                 
                                there are several, but they may not have the capability of APRSIS32. I've used APRSd on OpenWRT and I know there are others. A search on APRS on WRT should give several hits.

                                I'd still go with APRSIS32 (and have)
                                Robert Giuliano KB8RCO
                                ---------------------------------------------
                                From: Greg D <ko6th.greg@...>
                                To: aprsisce@yahoogroups.com
                                Sent: Monday, May 27, 2013 8:38 PM
                                Subject: Re: [aprsisce] EMCOMM communications setup suggestion?
                                 
                                Hi Rob, Ok, right.  I was thinking that might be what you had in mind, but it's far beyond what this team would want to deal with.  It might be interesting to port a headless APRS server to OpenWRT to serve this function... So, I think we're good...  (assuming Lynn agrees...) Thanks, Greg  KO6TH Rob Giuliano wrote:
                                 
                                APRSIS32 may be able to run on the AP itself, if the AP is something like a Linux box (with WINE) setup as an access point / router / etc. (rather than using a Linksys, DLink, or other more limited router), but that may be more effort than you are looking at.  The comment was more about the APRSIS server box needing to be centeral as it will be getting a lot of traffic in both directions, so the more computers "seeing" it directly, the better.
                                 
                                MASTER -> APRSIS with IS-server or Local Server (I haven't used this one yet).
                                    All other computers on the network would set their IS-Server "IP or DNS" set to the MASTER
                                 
                                With this connection, and all the RF->IS / IS->RF  set, the computers should be able to communicate through anything on the APRSIS32 "Message" menu item:
                                   Send Message, Chat, Announcements, Bulletins, etc (e-mail will need internet).
                                 
                                I have done this wired in my house ) well actually, wired/wireless while my internet connection was down.  I could still send messages that came up on the other computers.
                                 
                                Robert Giuliano
                                KB8RCO
                                ---------------------------------------------
                                From: Greg D mailto:ko6th.greg@...
                                To: aprsisce@yahoogroups.com
                                Sent: Monday, May 27, 2013 2:46 PM
                                Subject: Re: [aprsisce] EMCOMM communications setup suggestion?
                                 
                                Hi Rob, Some additional thoughts, below.  Thanks for your help, Greg  KO6TH Rob Giuliano wrote:
                                 
                                2. This is definitely possible.     They (clients computers) may need the server, but they can definitely talk to each other with APRSIS32 clients as a group or individually.      (they won't, or at least won't as much, if the network goes RF).      APRSIS Server "AT" or "ON" the ACCESS point would ensure all computers can reach it, since they need to reach the Access-Point to get an IP.

                                3.  AP with DHCP server provides the capability of keeping the "network" togethe.      The question is "will the Access-Point provide the routing capability without the internet?"      With APRSIS32 as the ISserver, it would be the gateway for the other clients. 4. Yes, all connected are part of the infrustructure - of course filtering could limited that if needed.
                                So, APRSIS/32 can't run on the AP itself, at least not the kind of AP that's typically available.  What I am imagining is that one of the PCs would be designated as the master, and would run APRSIS/32 with its server port open.  All the other PCs would connect to that PC's APRSIS32 instance.  The question is whether all of the so-connected PCs would be able to talk to each other as well as the master, any RF-connected clients via that master PC or other PCs, and the Internet IS through the access point router when it comes up.  I think you said "yes" to all of the above.  Right?  (Note that to do this, the Master's copy of APRSIS/32 would need to replicate the APRS traffic to all of the connected instances below it, not just forward the message to the Internet port (which wouldn't go anywhere if the Internet is down).
                                I'm sure Lynn (and many others) could be more specific.  They seem to have more experience in this area - from previous posts.
                                Lynn?

                                Robert Giuliano KB8RCO
                                ---------------------------------------------
                                From: Greg D mailto:ko6th.greg@...
                                To: aprsisce@yahoogroups.com
                                Sent: Monday, May 27, 2013 12:57 AM
                                Subject: [aprsisce] EMCOMM communications setup suggestion?
                                 
                                Hi folks, I turned on the radio to our local repeater this evening, just in time to hear the end of a Net discussion about setting up computers for direct communication. One person said you can do this now (implying newly) with Windows 8 over Wi-Fi. Since I know something about Wi-Fi communication (it's an occupational liability), I chimed in... What they want to do is be able the sending of messages from one computer to another, so they were talking about the link technology. One person had asked, before I joined, about the client software, and wouldn't you need a server somewhere to make this all work. And what were the options as other services (e.g. Internet) came on line. After chatting for a bit and understanding what they were after, it sounded to me like what APRS was precisely created for. Whether over a TNC-based RF channel, APRS-IS internet connectivity, or a combination of both, APRS gives the client-to-client messaging they are after. And also all that situational awareness that they'd want as well. So, back to the original topics of this email: 1. Given a bunch of Laptops I see two ways to get link-level connectivity; with a central Wi-Fi access point (typically a home router/AP), and ad-hoc. With the central AP, each laptop gets its own IP Address from the AP, and can talk between any and all of them at an IP level. I am not quite as familiar with ad-hoc, especially as it pertains to Windows 8, but I'm pretty sure it dates back to at least Windows XP, if not earlier, and suspect the same client to client communication can be accomplished with a sufficient bit of fiddling. Does anyone have more experience with ad-hoc mode to confirm this? I know about the link-level protocol; it's the Windows (and MAC for that matter) end of things I'm a bit fuzzy about. 2. More importantly, and pertaining to this group... Once one has a link between PCs, what client software to use? APRSIS immediately comes to mind. I am thinking that one of the PCs could be set up as the "master", enabling its APRSIS Server, and all the other PCs would connect to it. Would this enable the same messaging connectivity among all clients, so any and all of them could message each other, and all of the other APRS shared-awareness stuff that goes with APRS? Or is there a directedness about the communication such that leaf-level clients can only talk to the "server", and not to each other? 3. My leaning is toward the "central AP" as the interconnect of choice, as most PCs are already set up for the proper communication model (DHCP and all that), and if Internet connectivity becomes available, one already has the infrastructure to use it. If so, would that master node automatically become a gateway to the IS, transparently enabling the global infrastructure for all of the clients? 4. Incluiding the RF infrastructure should be simply a matter of having one or more of the PCs be connected to a TNC and radio. If so, do the RF clients and anyone they hear also become automatic members of the whole infrastructure, able to talk to anyone else? Thanks, Greg KO6TH
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