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Re: [aprsisce] Feature Requests - Rotating and Color Symbol Attributes & Mile Markers

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  • Hal Mueller
    I m going on your quote of the slide deck, not the original spec. It seems like a bad idea on several fronts. First, the spec as you stated it is ambiguous.
    Message 1 of 5 , May 22 4:37 AM
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      I'm going on your quote of the slide deck, not the original spec. It seems like a bad idea on several fronts.

      First, the spec as you stated it is ambiguous. What is the correct color for my active object (yellow) when moved (blue) from 85 minutes ago (black) with an Emergency status (red)? And what does it mean to apply these colors to colored icons?

      Second, using only colors, and particularly these colors, violates what we know today about UI design. The colors themselves have no inherent meaning; it's arbitrary. Furthermore, the colors are not distinguishable by people with common color vision deficiencies. We'll just be presenting a plot of randomly colored objects, a recipe for confusion.

      Third, the APRS spec should not dictate appearance. The model-view-controller paradigm has appeared since APRS was invented: separate the presentation from the data values. If the APRS spec restricts presentation and appearance, a lot of the innovative UI stuff Lynn has done becomes technically illegal. There's no benefit to the community in this sort of restriction.

      73
      Hal
      N3YX

      On May 21, 2013, at 11:48 AM, "kb3mno" <kb3mno@...> wrote:

      > Color Meanings: (taken from Bob's PowerPoint)
      > White - A full APRS mobile station
      > Grey - A tracker with no message capability
      > Blue - The previous posit when moved
      > Yellow - Your active objects
      > Violet - Someone else's objects
      > Cyan - Moving or dead reckoned
      > Black - Faded. More than 80 mins old
      > Red - Alarmed, Emergency or unknown
      > Circle - Ambiguous (guessed)
    • Kyle Sipple
      I see your point. I guess having all of these colors would make to display more confusing and we can get this info from the beacon info anyway. I do however
      Message 2 of 5 , May 22 4:50 AM
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        I see your point.  I guess having all of these colors would make to display more confusing and we can get this info from the beacon info anyway.  

        I do however think the symbols need to be rotated and pointed in the direction of movement as they are on aprs.fi.  


        On Wed, May 22, 2013 at 7:37 AM, Hal Mueller <hal@...> wrote:
         

        I'm going on your quote of the slide deck, not the original spec. It seems like a bad idea on several fronts.

        First, the spec as you stated it is ambiguous. What is the correct color for my active object (yellow) when moved (blue) from 85 minutes ago (black) with an Emergency status (red)? And what does it mean to apply these colors to colored icons?

        Second, using only colors, and particularly these colors, violates what we know today about UI design. The colors themselves have no inherent meaning; it's arbitrary. Furthermore, the colors are not distinguishable by people with common color vision deficiencies. We'll just be presenting a plot of randomly colored objects, a recipe for confusion.

        Third, the APRS spec should not dictate appearance. The model-view-controller paradigm has appeared since APRS was invented: separate the presentation from the data values. If the APRS spec restricts presentation and appearance, a lot of the innovative UI stuff Lynn has done becomes technically illegal. There's no benefit to the community in this sort of restriction.

        73
        Hal
        N3YX



        On May 21, 2013, at 11:48 AM, "kb3mno" <kb3mno@...> wrote:

        > Color Meanings: (taken from Bob's PowerPoint)
        > White - A full APRS mobile station
        > Grey - A tracker with no message capability
        > Blue - The previous posit when moved
        > Yellow - Your active objects
        > Violet - Someone else's objects
        > Cyan - Moving or dead reckoned
        > Black - Faded. More than 80 mins old
        > Red - Alarmed, Emergency or unknown
        > Circle - Ambiguous (guessed)


      • Don Rolph
        I just completed a first pass comparison of APRS technology, using APRSISCE as the console software, and a commercial offering to perform a similar task. Short
        Message 3 of 5 , May 22 5:15 AM
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          I just completed a first pass comparison of APRS technology, using APRSISCE as the console software, and a commercial offering to perform a similar task.

          Short answer:  APRS with APRSISCE is about 1/3 the price for the base station deployment for nearly identical  base functionality and with some advantages.

          There are a variety of reasons for the cost differential, but in part this is because APRS is simple.  It does what it does effectively and efficiently but does not try to be overburdened with features.  If we make APRS too ornate, we risk losing its effectiveness but more importantly its robustness.

          73,
          AB1PH
          Don Rolph


          On Wed, May 22, 2013 at 7:50 AM, Kyle Sipple <kb3mno@...> wrote:
           

          I see your point.  I guess having all of these colors would make to display more confusing and we can get this info from the beacon info anyway.  

          I do however think the symbols need to be rotated and pointed in the direction of movement as they are on aprs.fi.  


          On Wed, May 22, 2013 at 7:37 AM, Hal Mueller <hal@...> wrote:
           

          I'm going on your quote of the slide deck, not the original spec. It seems like a bad idea on several fronts.

          First, the spec as you stated it is ambiguous. What is the correct color for my active object (yellow) when moved (blue) from 85 minutes ago (black) with an Emergency status (red)? And what does it mean to apply these colors to colored icons?

          Second, using only colors, and particularly these colors, violates what we know today about UI design. The colors themselves have no inherent meaning; it's arbitrary. Furthermore, the colors are not distinguishable by people with common color vision deficiencies. We'll just be presenting a plot of randomly colored objects, a recipe for confusion.

          Third, the APRS spec should not dictate appearance. The model-view-controller paradigm has appeared since APRS was invented: separate the presentation from the data values. If the APRS spec restricts presentation and appearance, a lot of the innovative UI stuff Lynn has done becomes technically illegal. There's no benefit to the community in this sort of restriction.

          73
          Hal
          N3YX



          On May 21, 2013, at 11:48 AM, "kb3mno" <kb3mno@...> wrote:

          > Color Meanings: (taken from Bob's PowerPoint)
          > White - A full APRS mobile station
          > Grey - A tracker with no message capability
          > Blue - The previous posit when moved
          > Yellow - Your active objects
          > Violet - Someone else's objects
          > Cyan - Moving or dead reckoned
          > Black - Faded. More than 80 mins old
          > Red - Alarmed, Emergency or unknown
          > Circle - Ambiguous (guessed)



        • Robert Bruninga
          ... Depends on whether you want to be able to glance at a display and see what is going on (IE, see what icons are what) or whether you want to go around and
          Message 4 of 5 , May 22 7:52 AM
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            > I guess having all of these colors would make to display more confusing
            > and we can get this info from the beacon info anyway.

            Depends on whether you want to be able to "glance" at a display and see
            what is going on (IE, see what icons are what) or whether you want to go
            around and click on all 300 of them one at a time to see what they are..

            > Third, the APRS spec should not dictate appearance.

            It doesn’t. But the design of APRS was always about conveing information
            to the viewer without him having to go around and click on every single
            symbol on the map to find out which ones are old, new, within the last
            minute, moving, or objects or your objects or your objects moved by
            someone else, or message capable, or flagged or alarmed.

            APRS should work under stress. Adding the requirement to go click on
            every Icon to see what it is about does not help.

            There are 8 dimensions or attributes to *what* a symbol represents. Not
            presenting those attributes to the viewer has been the biggest loss when
            most clients shifted to simple Windows Icons as if they were all the same.

            Yes, in the Baltimore/Washington area there are 300 symbols in the local
            VHF radio range, a mass of symbols... though at any one time, only maybe a
            handful are doing anything or involved in your immediate interest. When
            the attributes are visibile, it is easy to see which ones those are.

            Bob, WB4APR


            On May 21, 2013, at 11:48 AM, "kb3mno" <kb3mno@...> wrote:

            > Color Meanings: (taken from Bob's PowerPoint)
            > White - A full APRS mobile station
            > Grey - A tracker with no message capability
            > Blue - The previous posit when moved
            > Yellow - Your active objects
            > Violet - Someone else's objects
            > Cyan - Moving or dead reckoned
            > Black - Faded. More than 80 mins old
            > Red - Alarmed, Emergency or unknown
            > Circle - Ambiguous (guessed)
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