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RE: [aprsisce] Dual iGate: Terrestrial and ISS

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  • Adam Mahnke
    So, in follow up to this. We are experimenting with APRS96 on UHF in the Ithaca area.
    Message 1 of 14 , May 7, 2013
      So, in follow up to this.

      We are experimenting with APRS96 on UHF in the Ithaca area. 


      I ran two separate instances of APRSIS32 for this to start with, but now I have a single instance running two radio ports.


      You may also notice
      as a stand alone UHF APRS96 Digi in the Ithaca area (same site as W2CXM-1) on a D700 with no APRSIS32 connection

      So far APRSIS32 seems to be behaving normally running both ports rather happily. It is a WIDE1-1 Digi, and a bidirectional IGate for both (not gating packets to RF, just messages) and we have N2PYI-4 gating IS traffic from our little 3 county area to RF on the UHF channel. It's an interesting experiment.

      I'm wondering if that is something similar to what Reed is attempting to do, a single instance and SSID running two different frequencies?

      Adam
      KC2ANT


      To: aprsisce@yahoogroups.com
      From: steve@...
      Date: Mon, 29 Apr 2013 16:18:13 +0100
      Subject: RE: [aprsisce] Dual iGate: Terrestrial and ISS

       

      A good start is here http://aprsisce.wikidot.com/doc:satelliteops I wrote most of that after using the ISS for awhile

       

      Steve Daniels

      Amateur Radio Callsign G6UIM

      Torbay Freecycle  Owner

      http://uk.groups.yahoo.com/group/torbay_freecycle

      APRSISCE/32 Beta tester and WIKI editor http://aprsisce.wikidot.com

       


      From: aprsisce@yahoogroups.com [mailto:aprsisce@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of reed2web
      Sent: 29 April 2013 15:48
      To: aprsisce@yahoogroups.com
      Subject: [aprsisce] Dual iGate: Terrestrial and ISS

       

       


      I would appreciate hints on the best way to setup APRSISCE to receive APRS from the ISS 145.825) and receive/send from land (144.39) using one computer. I would like to do this on a single Windows XP laptop. I will add an external ham sound "card," using the internal sound card for 144.39 and external for 145.825 (without hardware TNCs). At least, that's the initial plan.

      For example, should I run two instances of APRSISCE in two separate directory structures, or can one instance handle both situations? I expect I will need to run two instances of the TNC software.

      Your thoughts appreciated, *especially* if you have setup a dual-port station like this. I am inexperienced with APRSISCE, so please don't assume I already know all the details. Being an old geek, I do have a lengthy computer background, although most of it is with Unix/Linux and Mac.

      Thanks ... Reed K7FLY


    • Lynn W Deffenbaugh (Mr)
      Just be aware that the current APRSISCE/32 doesn t keep track of WHICH port a station was recently heard local for gating messages from -IS to RF, just the
      Message 2 of 14 , May 7, 2013
        Just be aware that the current APRSISCE/32 doesn't keep track of WHICH port a station was "recently heard local" for gating messages from -IS to RF, just the fact that it WAS recently heard local.  So, if a message comes across the APRS-IS for a station that's on UHF, it will be transmitted on both UHF and VHF ports.

        And there is also no cross-port gating supported in the current incarnation, so messages won't cross between the UHF and VHF ports.

        Now, if you ran separate instances with an APRS-IS server between them, messages will only go out on the instance/port that heard the station recently local and UHF/VHF cross messages will gate to/from the APRS-IS and manage the cross-band activity properly there as well.

        So, what is it you're gaining by using a single dual-ported instance?

        Lynn (D) - KJ4ERJ - Author of APRSISCE for Windows Mobile and Win32

        On 5/7/2013 4:55 PM, Adam Mahnke wrote:
        So, in follow up to this.

        We are experimenting with APRS96 on UHF in the Ithaca area. 


        I ran two separate instances of APRSIS32 for this to start with, but now I have a single instance running two radio ports.


        You may also notice
        as a stand alone UHF APRS96 Digi in the Ithaca area (same site as W2CXM-1) on a D700 with no APRSIS32 connection

        So far APRSIS32 seems to be behaving normally running both ports rather happily. It is a WIDE1-1 Digi, and a bidirectional IGate for both (not gating packets to RF, just messages) and we have N2PYI-4 gating IS traffic from our little 3 county area to RF on the UHF channel. It's an interesting experiment.

        I'm wondering if that is something similar to what Reed is attempting to do, a single instance and SSID running two different frequencies?

        Adam
        KC2ANT


        To: aprsisce@yahoogroups.com
        From: steve@...
        Date: Mon, 29 Apr 2013 16:18:13 +0100
        Subject: RE: [aprsisce] Dual iGate: Terrestrial and ISS

         

        A good start is here http://aprsisce.wikidot.com/doc:satelliteops I wrote most of that after using the ISS for awhile

         

        Steve Daniels

        Amateur Radio Callsign G6UIM

        Torbay Freecycle  Owner

        http://uk.groups.yahoo.com/group/torbay_freecycle

        APRSISCE/32 Beta tester and WIKI editor http://aprsisce.wikidot.com

         


        From: aprsisce@yahoogroups.com [mailto:aprsisce@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of reed2web
        Sent: 29 April 2013 15:48
        To: aprsisce@yahoogroups.com
        Subject: [aprsisce] Dual iGate: Terrestrial and ISS

         

         


        I would appreciate hints on the best way to setup APRSISCE to receive APRS from the ISS 145.825) and receive/send from land (144.39) using one computer. I would like to do this on a single Windows XP laptop. I will add an external ham sound "card," using the internal sound card for 144.39 and external for 145.825 (without hardware TNCs). At least, that's the initial plan.

        For example, should I run two instances of APRSISCE in two separate directory structures, or can one instance handle both situations? I expect I will need to run two instances of the TNC software.

        Your thoughts appreciated, *especially* if you have setup a dual-port station like this. I am inexperienced with APRSISCE, so please don't assume I already know all the details. Being an old geek, I do have a lengthy computer background, although most of it is with Unix/Linux and Mac.

        Thanks ... Reed K7FLY



      • Adam Mahnke
        Honestly, just one less program running on the PC at any given time. (and one less for the YL to have to worry about starting back up if/when it crashes) I may
        Message 3 of 14 , May 7, 2013
          Honestly, just one less program running on the PC at any given time. (and one less for the YL to have to worry about starting back up if/when it crashes)

          I may go back to the double instances though, just for the messaging... didn't think about that part. 

          Adam
          KC2ANT


          To: aprsisce@yahoogroups.com
          From: kj4erj@...
          Date: Tue, 7 May 2013 18:59:57 -0400
          Subject: Re: [aprsisce] Dual iGate: Terrestrial and ISS

           

          Just be aware that the current APRSISCE/32 doesn't keep track of WHICH port a station was "recently heard local" for gating messages from -IS to RF, just the fact that it WAS recently heard local.  So, if a message comes across the APRS-IS for a station that's on UHF, it will be transmitted on both UHF and VHF ports.

          And there is also no cross-port gating supported in the current incarnation, so messages won't cross between the UHF and VHF ports.

          Now, if you ran separate instances with an APRS-IS server between them, messages will only go out on the instance/port that heard the station recently local and UHF/VHF cross messages will gate to/from the APRS-IS and manage the cross-band activity properly there as well.

          So, what is it you're gaining by using a single dual-ported instance?

          Lynn (D) - KJ4ERJ - Author of APRSISCE for Windows Mobile and Win32

          On 5/7/2013 4:55 PM, Adam Mahnke wrote:
          So, in follow up to this.

          We are experimenting with APRS96 on UHF in the Ithaca area. 


          I ran two separate instances of APRSIS32 for this to start with, but now I have a single instance running two radio ports.


          You may also notice
          as a stand alone UHF APRS96 Digi in the Ithaca area (same site as W2CXM-1) on a D700 with no APRSIS32 connection

          So far APRSIS32 seems to be behaving normally running both ports rather happily. It is a WIDE1-1 Digi, and a bidirectional IGate for both (not gating packets to RF, just messages) and we have N2PYI-4 gating IS traffic from our little 3 county area to RF on the UHF channel. It's an interesting experiment.

          I'm wondering if that is something similar to what Reed is attempting to do, a single instance and SSID running two different frequencies?

          Adam
          KC2ANT


          To: aprsisce@yahoogroups.com
          From: steve@...
          Date: Mon, 29 Apr 2013 16:18:13 +0100
          Subject: RE: [aprsisce] Dual iGate: Terrestrial and ISS

           

          A good start is here http://aprsisce.wikidot.com/doc:satelliteops I wrote most of that after using the ISS for awhile

           

          Steve Daniels

          Amateur Radio Callsign G6UIM

          Torbay Freecycle  Owner

          http://uk.groups.yahoo.com/group/torbay_freecycle

          APRSISCE/32 Beta tester and WIKI editor http://aprsisce.wikidot.com

           


          From: aprsisce@yahoogroups.com [mailto:aprsisce@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of reed2web
          Sent: 29 April 2013 15:48
          To: aprsisce@yahoogroups.com
          Subject: [aprsisce] Dual iGate: Terrestrial and ISS

           

           


          I would appreciate hints on the best way to setup APRSISCE to receive APRS from the ISS 145.825) and receive/send from land (144.39) using one computer. I would like to do this on a single Windows XP laptop. I will add an external ham sound "card," using the internal sound card for 144.39 and external for 145.825 (without hardware TNCs). At least, that's the initial plan.

          For example, should I run two instances of APRSISCE in two separate directory structures, or can one instance handle both situations? I expect I will need to run two instances of the TNC software.

          Your thoughts appreciated, *especially* if you have setup a dual-port station like this. I am inexperienced with APRSISCE, so please don't assume I already know all the details. Being an old geek, I do have a lengthy computer background, although most of it is with Unix/Linux and Mac.

          Thanks ... Reed K7FLY




        • Steve Daniels
          Just put links in the startup folder, will load up on reboot then. Probably safest to ban the YL from the PC. I want at some point to run HF VHF cross band, I
          Message 4 of 14 , May 7, 2013

            Just put links in the startup folder, will load up on reboot then. Probably safest to ban the YL from the PC.

            I want at some point to run HF VHF cross band, I have a fair amount of traffic going down the English Channel, and I usually get thanks for keeping the HF and VHF running so the can message.

            Obviously there needs to be a fair amount of filtering on VHF to HF and IS to HF

            But if you are on a boat the ability to receive a message from friends is a big advantage, be it VHF to HF or IS to HF.

             

            Steve Daniels

            Amateur Radio Callsign G6UIM

            Torbay Freecycle  Owner

            http://uk.groups.yahoo.com/group/torbay_freecycle

            APRSISCE/32 Beta tester and WIKI editor http://aprsisce.wikidot.com

             


            From: aprsisce@yahoogroups.com [mailto: aprsisce@yahoogroups.com ] On Behalf Of Adam Mahnke
            Sent: 08 May 2013 00:22
            To: aprsisce@yahoogroups.com
            Subject: RE: [aprsisce] Dual iGate: Terrestrial and ISS

             

             

            Honestly, just one less program running on the PC at any given time. (and one less for the YL to have to worry about starting back up if/when it crashes)

             

            I may go back to the double instances though, just for the messaging... didn't think about that part. 

             

            Adam

            KC2ANT


            To: aprsisce@yahoogroups.com
            From: kj4erj@...
            Date: Tue, 7 May 2013 18:59:57 -0400
            Subject: Re: [aprsisce] Dual iGate: Terrestrial and ISS

             

             

            Just be aware that the current APRSISCE/32 doesn't keep track of WHICH port a station was "recently heard local" for gating messages from -IS to RF, just the fact that it WAS recently heard local.  So, if a message comes across the APRS-IS for a station that's on UHF, it will be transmitted on both UHF and VHF ports.

            And there is also no cross-port gating supported in the current incarnation, so messages won't cross between the UHF and VHF ports.

            Now, if you ran separate instances with an APRS-IS server between them, messages will only go out on the instance/port that heard the station recently local and UHF/VHF cross messages will gate to/from the APRS-IS and manage the cross-band activity properly there as well.

            So, what is it you're gaining by using a single dual-ported instance?

            Lynn (D) - KJ4ERJ - Author of APRSISCE for Windows Mobile and Win32

            On 5/7/2013 4:55 PM, Adam Mahnke wrote:

            So, in follow up to this.

             

            We are experimenting with APRS96 on UHF in the Ithaca area. 

             

             

            I ran two separate instances of APRSIS32 for this to start with, but now I have a single instance running two radio ports.

             

             

            You may also notice

            as a stand alone UHF APRS96 Digi in the Ithaca area (same site as W2CXM-1) on a D700 with no APRSIS32 connection

             

            So far APRSIS32 seems to be behaving normally running both ports rather happily. It is a WIDE1-1 Digi, and a bidirectional IGate for both (not gating packets to RF, just messages) and we have N2PYI-4 gating IS traffic from our little 3 county area to RF on the UHF channel. It's an interesting experiment.

             

            I'm wondering if that is something similar to what Reed is attempting to do, a single instance and SSID running two different frequencies?

             

            Adam

            KC2ANT


            To: aprsisce@yahoogroups.com
            From: steve@...
            Date: Mon, 29 Apr 2013 16:18:13 +0100
            Subject: RE: [aprsisce] Dual iGate: Terrestrial and ISS

             

             

            A good start is here http://aprsisce.wikidot.com/doc:satelliteops I wrote most of that after using the ISS for awhile

             

            Steve Daniels

            Amateur Radio Callsign G6UIM

            Torbay Freecycle  Owner

            http://uk.groups.yahoo.com/group/torbay_freecycle

            APRSISCE/32 Beta tester and WIKI editor http://aprsisce.wikidot.com

             


            From: aprsisce@yahoogroups.com [mailto:aprsisce@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of reed2web
            Sent: 29 April 2013 15:48
            To: aprsisce@yahoogroups.com
            Subject: [aprsisce] Dual iGate: Terrestrial and ISS

             

             


            I would appreciate hints on the best way to setup APRSISCE to receive APRS from the ISS 145.825) and receive/send from land (144.39) using one computer. I would like to do this on a single Windows XP laptop. I will add an external ham sound "card," using the internal sound card for 144.39 and external for 145.825 (without hardware TNCs). At least, that's the initial plan.

            For example, should I run two instances of APRSISCE in two separate directory structures, or can one instance handle both situations? I expect I will need to run two instances of the TNC software.

            Your thoughts appreciated, *especially* if you have setup a dual-port station like this. I am inexperienced with APRSISCE, so please don't assume I already know all the details. Being an old geek, I do have a lengthy computer background, although most of it is with Unix/Linux and Mac.

            Thanks ... Reed K7FLY

             

             

          • adam_kc2ant
            Ha ha, funny guy. In the interest of domestic tranquility i ll leave that as a last resort. We ve got a 30M gateway in the area, seems silly to have 2 within
            Message 5 of 14 , May 7, 2013
              Ha ha, funny guy. In the interest of domestic tranquility i'll leave that as a last resort.

              We've got a 30M gateway in the area, seems silly to have 2 within 20 miles of each other.

              I may populate the startup folder though

              Adam
              KC2ANT

              --- Original Message ---

              From: "Steve Daniels" <steve@...>
              Sent: May 7, 2013 8:38 PM
              To: aprsisce@yahoogroups.com
              Subject: RE: [aprsisce] Dual iGate: Terrestrial and ISS

               

              Just put links in the startup folder, will load up on reboot then. Probably safest to ban the YL from the PC.

              I want at some point to run HF VHF cross band, I have a fair amount of traffic going down the English Channel, and I usually get thanks for keeping the HF and VHF running so the can message.

              Obviously there needs to be a fair amount of filtering on VHF to HF and IS to HF

              But if you are on a boat the ability to receive a message from friends is a big advantage, be it VHF to HF or IS to HF.

               

              Steve Daniels

              Amateur Radio Callsign G6UIM

              Torbay Freecycle  Owner

              http://uk.groups.yahoo.com/group/torbay_freecycle

              APRSISCE/32 Beta tester and WIKI editor http://aprsisce.wikidot.com

               


              From: aprsisce@yahoogroups.com [mailto:aprsisce@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Adam Mahnke
              Sent: 08 May 2013 00:22
              To: aprsisce@yahoogroups.com
              Subject: RE: [aprsisce] Dual iGate: Terrestrial and ISS

               

               

              Honestly, just one less program running on the PC at any given time. (and one less for the YL to have to worry about starting back up if/when it crashes)

               

              I may go back to the double instances though, just for the messaging... didn't think about that part. 

               

              Adam

              KC2ANT


              To: aprsisce@yahoogroups.com
              From: kj4erj@...
              Date: Tue, 7 May 2013 18:59:57 -0400
              Subject: Re: [aprsisce] Dual iGate: Terrestrial and ISS

               

               

              Just be aware that the current APRSISCE/32 doesn't keep track of WHICH port a station was "recently heard local" for gating messages from -IS to RF, just the fact that it WAS recently heard local.  So, if a message comes across the APRS-IS for a station that's on UHF, it will be transmitted on both UHF and VHF ports.

              And there is also no cross-port gating supported in the current incarnation, so messages won't cross between the UHF and VHF ports.

              Now, if you ran separate instances with an APRS-IS server between them, messages will only go out on the instance/port that heard the station recently local and UHF/VHF cross messages will gate to/from the APRS-IS and manage the cross-band activity properly there as well.

              So, what is it you're gaining by using a single dual-ported instance?

              Lynn (D) - KJ4ERJ - Author of APRSISCE for Windows Mobile and Win32

              On 5/7/2013 4:55 PM, Adam Mahnke wrote:

              So, in follow up to this.

               

              We are experimenting with APRS96 on UHF in the Ithaca area. 

               

               

              I ran two separate instances of APRSIS32 for this to start with, but now I have a single instance running two radio ports.

               

               

              You may also notice

              as a stand alone UHF APRS96 Digi in the Ithaca area (same site as W2CXM-1) on a D700 with no APRSIS32 connection

               

              So far APRSIS32 seems to be behaving normally running both ports rather happily. It is a WIDE1-1 Digi, and a bidirectional IGate for both (not gating packets to RF, just messages) and we have N2PYI-4 gating IS traffic from our little 3 county area to RF on the UHF channel. It's an interesting experiment.

               

              I'm wondering if that is something similar to what Reed is attempting to do, a single instance and SSID running two different frequencies?

               

              Adam

              KC2ANT


              To: aprsisce@yahoogroups.com
              From: steve@...
              Date: Mon, 29 Apr 2013 16:18:13 +0100
              Subject: RE: [aprsisce] Dual iGate: Terrestrial and ISS

               

               

              A good start is here http://aprsisce.wikidot.com/doc:satelliteops I wrote most of that after using the ISS for awhile

               

              Steve Daniels

              Amateur Radio Callsign G6UIM

              Torbay Freecycle  Owner

              http://uk.groups.yahoo.com/group/torbay_freecycle

              APRSISCE/32 Beta tester and WIKI editor http://aprsisce.wikidot.com

               


              From: aprsisce@yahoogroups.com [mailto:aprsisce@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of reed2web
              Sent: 29 April 2013 15:48
              To: aprsisce@yahoogroups.com
              Subject: [aprsisce] Dual iGate: Terrestrial and ISS

               

               


              I would appreciate hints on the best way to setup APRSISCE to receive APRS from the ISS 145.825) and receive/send from land (144.39) using one computer. I would like to do this on a single Windows XP laptop. I will add an external ham sound "card," using the internal sound card for 144.39 and external for 145.825 (without hardware TNCs). At least, that's the initial plan.

              For example, should I run two instances of APRSISCE in two separate directory structures, or can one instance handle both situations? I expect I will need to run two instances of the TNC software.

              Your thoughts appreciated, *especially* if you have setup a dual-port station like this. I am inexperienced with APRSISCE, so please don't assume I already know all the details. Being an old geek, I do have a lengthy computer background, although most of it is with Unix/Linux and Mac.

              Thanks ... Reed K7FLY

               

               

            • Robert Bruninga
              ... Not at all. That is called spatial diversity and is a vast benefit for any HF net. Even if they were a few hundred meters a part, they would still show
              Message 6 of 14 , May 8, 2013
                > We've got a 30M gateway in the area,
                > seems silly to have 2 within 20 miles of each other.

                Not at all. That is called spatial diversity and is a vast benefit for any
                HF net. Even if they were a few hundred meters a part, they would still
                show diversity. When one is in a fade, the other would not be. Diversity
                whether in the spatial, or time domain or any other domain is a great way to
                improve link reliability.

                > I want at some point to run HF VHF cross band,
                > I have a fair amount of traffic going down the English Channel...
                > Obviously there needs to be a fair amount of filtering on VHF to HF and IS
                > to HF

                Red flags going up here (though I have not followed the thread closely).
                But here are the "rules" for HF/VHF gating established back in 1994 or 5 or
                so.

                1) Gating every packet from HF to local VHF is fine... but ONLY if we assume
                everyone on HF is using a path no longer than GATE,WIDE1-1. The idea being
                that the packet is heard in the SAME local area as the HF=>VHF gate. Thus
                locals who know the GATer can work out if the load is a problem

                2) Gating VHF to HF is strictly not desired under any circumstances *other*
                than messages. Messages are CALL-A to CALL-B and should go
                anywhere/everywhere there is a path available.

                3) There should be no DIGIPEATING on HF except for emergency messages or
                live one-on-one testing for short periods. The APRS HF network is the
                worlds largest spatial diversity receiver. Some gate, somewhere will hear a
                packet if it is to be heard. No sense doubling the QRM all the time by
                digipeating.

                Hope that helps.
                Bob, WB4APR
              • reed2web
                Adam ... Thank you for your thoughts. Knowing the alternatives is a big help. I am on the learning curve, so I will start with one radio (rec only) and one
                Message 7 of 14 , May 8, 2013
                  Adam ...

                  Thank you for your thoughts. Knowing the alternatives is a big help.

                  I am on the learning curve, so I will start with one radio (rec only) and one instance of APRIS32. Then add a second radio for ISS, both radios receive only, and still one instance. If there is a need for the second instance, I will do it. As Einstein said, "Make things as simple as possible, but no simpler." ( At least, I think it was Einstein.)

                  I live in an area that has very low APRS activity (probably due in part to the lack of nodes!). So, at the moment, doing a perfect implementation is less important than perfection would be in a congested area.

                  I think I read that Dire Wolf (TNC software) can handle two channels of input (hopefully, right and left channels of the audio input to the PC). If that works, the whole deal would be pretty slick. And better yet, no additional hardware to purchase! In theory, at least.

                  At the moment, a house-painting project is keeping me at bay.

                  Regards ... Reed K7FLY
                • Fred Hillhouse
                  I have heard, make something simple and only the simple will use it. Dire Wolf does support to channels. In the zip files, there are a few PDFs to look
                  Message 8 of 14 , May 8, 2013
                    I have heard, "make something simple and only the simple will use it."
                     
                    Dire Wolf does support to channels. In the zip files, there are a few PDFs to look through. I am working on implementing this on a Raspberry Pi. I finally got it to see my USB soundcard dongle yesterday. Now I have to put it down for about a week while needing to do something else.
                     
                    Best regards,
                    Fred, N7FMH
                     


                    From: aprsisce@yahoogroups.com [mailto:aprsisce@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of reed2web
                    Sent: Wednesday, May 08, 2013 09:33
                    To: aprsisce@yahoogroups.com
                    Subject: [aprsisce] Re: Dual iGate: Terrestrial and ISS

                     


                    Adam ...

                    Thank you for your thoughts. Knowing the alternatives is a big help.

                    I am on the learning curve, so I will start with one radio (rec only) and one instance of APRIS32. Then add a second radio for ISS, both radios receive only, and still one instance. If there is a need for the second instance, I will do it. As Einstein said, "Make things as simple as possible, but no simpler." ( At least, I think it was Einstein.)

                    I live in an area that has very low APRS activity (probably due in part to the lack of nodes!). So, at the moment, doing a perfect implementation is less important than perfection would be in a congested area.

                    I think I read that Dire Wolf (TNC software) can handle two channels of input (hopefully, right and left channels of the audio input to the PC). If that works, the whole deal would be pretty slick. And better yet, no additional hardware to purchase! In theory, at least.

                    At the moment, a house-painting project is keeping me at bay.

                    Regards ... Reed K7FLY

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