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Re: [aprsisce] Re: Questions on creating an object

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  • James Ewen
    ... Here in lies the problem... Are you creating a new object (generic term, not necessarily an APRS object), or trying to find out where that object is? Let s
    Message 1 of 29 , Feb 10, 2013
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      On Sun, Feb 10, 2013 at 11:01 AM, KE6BB <rv6amark@...> wrote:

      > Since my hands are old and shaky, and I am usually using a laptop with a touch
      > pad, I find it easiest to drag the map to the general coordinates I am interested in
      >, and then switch to the cursor keys: UP/DOWN keys to zoom in and out, and
      > CTRL-UP, CTRL-DOWN, CTRL-LEFT, CTRL-RIGHT to move the map in small
      > increments until the coordinates match. It really takes longer to describe than
      > to do it. I can now do it faster than using the copy-paste method. Once the object
      > is positioned, I zoom in closer and check that it is where I want it. If not, I move
      > it to where it should be (separate discussion, I'm sure).

      Here in lies the problem...

      Are you creating a new object (generic term, not necessarily an APRS
      object), or trying to find out where that object is?

      Let's pretend we are all standing in front of a big map on the wall.
      There's a big X on the map which is labelled "You are here". We all
      can see that big X on the map, and it is very easy for everyone to
      understand where they are in relation to the map.

      Now someone decides that it's time for a donut... "Where's the closest
      Krispy Kreme?" they pipe up.

      Someone else says, "Half a block west of the intersection of 5th
      street, and 3rd avenue on the south side of the road."

      What happens now? Maybe some people already know where it is located.
      They are good to go, and start walking in the correct direction.
      Others might be able to visualize where the donut shop is located, but
      they still have to look closer at the map to see where it is in
      relation to where they currently are. Still others who have no
      knowledge of the area have to spend a bunch of time looking realy
      closely at the map to read the street numbers, figure out where 5th
      and 3rd intersect, and then determine how to get there from here.

      Wouldn't have been much easier for all involved if someone just
      pointed to the location on the map? Maybe even put a pushpin in the
      map for everyone to see?

      That's what we are talking about here. Someone has to know the
      location of the Krispy Kreme to start with, and then locate it on the
      map, but once the pushpin is stuck in the map, others simply have to
      look for the pushpin, and don't have to worry about looking at the
      street and avenue numbers.

      If you have the latitude/longitude values given to you, it is easier
      to simply enter the numbers into a dialog box and have the icon pop up
      on the screen at the correct location than it is to
      scroll/zoom/scroll/zoom/scroll/zoom until the coordinates display
      matches the desired location.

      Could you imagine how annoying it would be if APRSISCE/32 simply
      created a list of stations on the left, with icons and lat/long
      values, and it was up to you to have to scroll the map around to get
      the lat/long values correct, and then drag the icon and place it on
      the map?

      --
      James
      VE6SRV
    • Mark Petiford
      Re:  If you have the latitude/longitude values given to you, it is easier to simply enter the numbers into a dialog box and have the icon pop up on the
      Message 2 of 29 , Feb 10, 2013
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        Re:  "If you have the latitude/longitude values given to you, it is easier
        to simply enter the numbers into a dialog box and have the icon pop up
        on the screen at the correct location than..."

        Agreed!  I should have made it clear that I didn't mean to imply that what I do is better, or take the pressure off of Lynn <grin> to consider a "data entry" approach.  Just meant to provide an alternative until (hopefully) that is available.  I am sure that will cause us to repeat the old thread as to what format the Lat/Lon data should be in.  Oops, now I've done it!

        Mark
        KE6BB


        From: James Ewen <ve6srv@...>
        To: aprsisce@yahoogroups.com
        Sent: Sunday, February 10, 2013 12:45 PM
        Subject: Re: [aprsisce] Re: Questions on creating an object

         
        On Sun, Feb 10, 2013 at 11:01 AM, KE6BB rv6amark@...> wrote:

        > Since my hands are old and shaky, and I am usually using a laptop with a touch
        > pad, I find it easiest to drag the map to the general coordinates I am interested in
        >, and then switch to the cursor keys: UP/DOWN keys to zoom in and out, and
        > CTRL-UP, CTRL-DOWN, CTRL-LEFT, CTRL-RIGHT to move the map in small
        > increments until the coordinates match. It really takes longer to describe than
        > to do it. I can now do it faster than using the copy-paste method. Once the object
        > is positioned, I zoom in closer and check that it is where I want it. If not, I move
        > it to where it should be (separate discussion, I'm sure).

        Here in lies the problem...

        Are you creating a new object (generic term, not necessarily an APRS
        object), or trying to find out where that object is?

        Let's pretend we are all standing in front of a big map on the wall.
        There's a big X on the map which is labelled "You are here". We all
        can see that big X on the map, and it is very easy for everyone to
        understand where they are in relation to the map.

        Now someone decides that it's time for a donut... "Where's the closest
        Krispy Kreme?" they pipe up.

        Someone else says, "Half a block west of the intersection of 5th
        street, and 3rd avenue on the south side of the road."

        What happens now? Maybe some people already know where it is located.
        They are good to go, and start walking in the correct direction.
        Others might be able to visualize where the donut shop is located, but
        they still have to look closer at the map to see where it is in
        relation to where they currently are. Still others who have no
        knowledge of the area have to spend a bunch of time looking realy
        closely at the map to read the street numbers, figure out where 5th
        and 3rd intersect, and then determine how to get there from here.

        Wouldn't have been much easier for all involved if someone just
        pointed to the location on the map? Maybe even put a pushpin in the
        map for everyone to see?

        That's what we are talking about here. Someone has to know the
        location of the Krispy Kreme to start with, and then locate it on the
        map, but once the pushpin is stuck in the map, others simply have to
        look for the pushpin, and don't have to worry about looking at the
        street and avenue numbers.

        If you have the latitude/longitude values given to you, it is easier
        to simply enter the numbers into a dialog box and have the icon pop up
        on the screen at the correct location than it is to
        scroll/zoom/scroll/zoom/scroll/zoom until the coordinates display
        matches the desired location.

        Could you imagine how annoying it would be if APRSISCE/32 simply
        created a list of stations on the left, with icons and lat/long
        values, and it was up to you to have to scroll the map around to get
        the lat/long values correct, and then drag the icon and place it on
        the map?

        --
        James
        VE6SRV


      • James Ewen
        ... data ... as ... There s no need to have a fight over what format the lat/long should be in... the APRS specification defines the format used internally.
        Message 3 of 29 , Feb 10, 2013
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          On Sun, Feb 10, 2013 at 2:26 PM, Mark Petiford <rv6amark@...> wrote:

          > Agreed!  I should have made it clear that I didn't mean to imply that what
          > I do is better, or take the pressure off of Lynn <grin> to consider a "data
          > entry" approach.  Just meant to provide an alternative until (hopefully)
          > that is available.  I am sure that will cause us to repeat the old thread as
          > to what format the Lat/Lon data should be in.  Oops, now I've done it!

          There's no need to have a fight over what format the lat/long should be in... the APRS specification defines the format used internally.

          However those silly users outside of the box can't get organized. So, why try and make the users change? Computers are supposed to make life easier for us. 

          Give the user 3 entry boxes for the degrees, minutes, and seconds.

          Allow the user to enter the data in whatever format is desired. If a decimal value is entered into one of the boxes, then any information (if entered) in the box(es) to the right is ignored. Your entry dialog box would look something like this:

          Inline image 1

          Data entry into the boxes could be accepted in any of the formats below

          Degrees

          Minutes

          Seconds

          -113

          17

          27.00

          -113

          17.45

           

          -113.2908

           

           



          If a decimal value is entered into the degrees entry box, and the user has also entered values into the Minutes and Seconds boxes, the data in those boxes would be ignored. Another option would be to clear and grey out the boxes to the right of a box that has a decimal entered into it to show the user that the subsequent data will be ignored. Similar action would take place if whole degrees and decimal minutes values are entered... the seconds values would be greyed out/ignored.

          With this entry method available, one does not have to worry about changing the program preferences, or converting between DDD.ddddd / DDD MM.mmm / DDD MM SS.sss to the required format before entry.

          --
          James
          VE6SRV
        • Tony VE6MVP
          ... Agreed with a minor clarification. There should be some text on that screen something like: Degrees and Minutes can include decimal portion. Otherwise
          Message 4 of 29 , Feb 10, 2013
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            At 04:04 PM 2013-02-10, James Ewen wrote:

            Allow the user to enter the data in whatever format is desired. If a decimal value is entered into one of the boxes, then any information (if entered) in the box(es) to the right is ignored. Your entry dialog box would look something like this:

            Inline image 1

            Agreed with a minor clarification.   There should be some text on that screen something like:
                     Degrees and Minutes can include decimal portion. 
            Otherwise newbies to the software will labouriously convert decimal degrees to Degrees, Minutes and Seconds.

            Tony
          • James Ewen
            ... Yes, there would need to be a bit of text explaining things to the user. RadioMobile uses this exact entry method, and it works exceedingly well. -- James
            Message 5 of 29 , Feb 10, 2013
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              On Sun, Feb 10, 2013 at 4:24 PM, Tony VE6MVP <tony@...> wrote:

              > Agreed with a minor clarification. There should be some text on that
              > screen something like:
              > Degrees and Minutes can include decimal portion.
              > Otherwise newbies to the software will labouriously convert decimal
              > degrees to Degrees, Minutes and Seconds.

              Yes, there would need to be a bit of text explaining things to the
              user. RadioMobile uses this exact entry method, and it works
              exceedingly well.

              --
              James
              VE6SRV
            • Fred Hillhouse
              I have found a couple of bad links on the WIKI and have fixed them. If you have trouble with a tile set, please list it here. I would be happy to fix it. The
              Message 6 of 29 , Feb 11, 2013
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                I have found a couple of bad links on the WIKI and have fixed them. If you have trouble with a tile set, please list it here. I would be happy to fix it.
                 
                The AEROMAP.US (aeronautical charts) has become a dead-end so it is know longer in the WIKI.
                And I found one of the ArcGIS links to be incorrect so it has been fixed.
                 
                Thanks!
                Fred, N7FMH
                 


                From: aprsisce@yahoogroups.com [mailto:aprsisce@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Mark Petiford
                Sent: Sunday, February 10, 2013 15:33
                To: aprsisce@yahoogroups.com
                Subject: Re: [aprsisce] Re: Questions on creating an object

                 

                APRISCE/APRSIS32 can use a number of different maps (map tiles), and you can switch from one to the other on the fly.  Take a look at:

                http://aprsisce.wikidot.com/tile-sets

                I find that each tile set has its own strong and weak points, and the ability to switch on the fly is really nice.

                I am probably the the wrong person to be tutoring on the subject of using different tiles.  I find that I can get some of the ones listed to work, and others won't.

                Mark
                KE6BB


                From: Tony VE6MVP <tony@...>
                To: aprsisce@yahoogroups.com
                Sent: Sunday, February 10, 2013 12:17 PM
                Subject: Re: [aprsisce] Re: Questions on creating an object

                 
                At 11:01 AM 2013-02-10, KE6BB wrote:

                I did the same thing the first time I tried it, but then that is why I tried it in a no-pressure situation first.

                Exactly.  I figured I'd muck with this long before I ever needed it.

                >Since my hands are old and shaky, and I am usually using a laptop with a touch pad,

                I *CAN"T* stand the frigging touch pad.  I always have a mouse with me.

                >I find it easiest to drag the map to the general coordinates I am interested in, and then switch to the cursor keys: UP/DOWN keys to zoom in and out, and CTRL-UP, CTRL-DOWN, CTRL-LEFT, CTRL-RIGHT to move the map in small increments until the coordinates match.

                Oh, that's an interesting idea.  Ok, I'll try that.   James, could you update the Wiki to include this technique.

                > If it is a location that isn't on a map (such as a farmhouse), I switch to MapQuest Aerial maps

                I'm a bit confused here.  Do you switch to these maps from within APRSIS32?  Or do you use these externally in a web browser?

                Tony


              • Fred Hillhouse
                I should also add that the links are often changed at the server end. So while today the link might work, tomorrow it may not. Best regards, Fred, N7FMH _____
                Message 7 of 29 , Feb 11, 2013
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                  I should also add that the links are often changed at the server end. So while today the link might work, tomorrow it may not.
                   
                  Best regards,
                  Fred, N7FMH
                   


                  From: aprsisce@yahoogroups.com [mailto:aprsisce@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Fred Hillhouse
                  Sent: Monday, February 11, 2013 10:26
                  To: aprsisce@yahoogroups.com
                  Subject: RE: [aprsisce] Re: Questions on creating an object

                   

                  I have found a couple of bad links on the WIKI and have fixed them. If you have trouble with a tile set, please list it here. I would be happy to fix it.
                   
                  The AEROMAP.US (aeronautical charts) has become a dead-end so it is know longer in the WIKI.
                  And I found one of the ArcGIS links to be incorrect so it has been fixed.
                   
                  Thanks!
                  Fred, N7FMH
                   


                  From: aprsisce@yahoogroups.com [mailto:aprsisce@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Mark Petiford
                  Sent: Sunday, February 10, 2013 15:33
                  To: aprsisce@yahoogroups.com
                  Subject: Re: [aprsisce] Re: Questions on creating an object

                   

                  APRISCE/APRSIS32 can use a number of different maps (map tiles), and you can switch from one to the other on the fly.  Take a look at:

                  http://aprsisce.wikidot.com/tile-sets

                  I find that each tile set has its own strong and weak points, and the ability to switch on the fly is really nice.

                  I am probably the the wrong person to be tutoring on the subject of using different tiles.  I find that I can get some of the ones listed to work, and others won't.

                  Mark
                  KE6BB


                  From: Tony VE6MVP <tony@...>
                  To: aprsisce@yahoogroups.com
                  Sent: Sunday, February 10, 2013 12:17 PM
                  Subject: Re: [aprsisce] Re: Questions on creating an object

                   
                  At 11:01 AM 2013-02-10, KE6BB wrote:

                  I did the same thing the first time I tried it, but then that is why I tried it in a no-pressure situation first.

                  Exactly.  I figured I'd muck with this long before I ever needed it.

                  >Since my hands are old and shaky, and I am usually using a laptop with a touch pad,

                  I *CAN"T* stand the frigging touch pad.  I always have a mouse with me.

                  >I find it easiest to drag the map to the general coordinates I am interested in, and then switch to the cursor keys: UP/DOWN keys to zoom in and out, and CTRL-UP, CTRL-DOWN, CTRL-LEFT, CTRL-RIGHT to move the map in small increments until the coordinates match.

                  Oh, that's an interesting idea.  Ok, I'll try that.   James, could you update the Wiki to include this technique.

                  > If it is a location that isn't on a map (such as a farmhouse), I switch to MapQuest Aerial maps

                  I'm a bit confused here.  Do you switch to these maps from within APRSIS32?  Or do you use these externally in a web browser?

                  Tony


                • KE6BB
                  ... No, Fred. Our thanks to you!!! We really appreciate your snooping these things out. Sorry to see the aero maps go. Was one of my favorite play toys.
                  Message 8 of 29 , Feb 11, 2013
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                    Re:
                    > Thanks!
                    > Fred, N7FMH
                    >

                    No, Fred. Our thanks to you!!! We really appreciate your "snooping" these things out. Sorry to see the aero maps go. Was one of my favorite play toys.

                    Mark
                    KE6BB
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