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Re: Questions on creating an object

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  • KE6BB
    ... I did the same thing the first time I tried it, but then that is why I tried it in a no-pressure situation first. I had the same learning curve with
    Message 1 of 29 , Feb 10, 2013
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      Read James' response first. I might add a couple of tips:

      > That's
      > kind of unfriendly without giving me more of an explanation. Adding
      > some text like "You must position the screen centre to create an
      > object." would be nice.

      I did the same thing the first time I tried it, but then that is why I tried it in a no-pressure situation first. I had the same learning curve with UI-view, but it had a fabulous help system for EVERY screen, which was really nice. (I am NOT going back though!!!)

      > 2) In this particular instance I wanted to create an object that is a
      > farmers house which is an HF contest station. All that you can see
      > on the map is grid roads. I have the lat long from some raw APRS
      > packets last night and I just wanted to copy and paste those in.

      Since my hands are old and shaky, and I am usually using a laptop with a touch pad, I find it easiest to drag the map to the general coordinates I am interested in, and then switch to the cursor keys: UP/DOWN keys to zoom in and out, and CTRL-UP, CTRL-DOWN, CTRL-LEFT, CTRL-RIGHT to move the map in small increments until the coordinates match. It really takes longer to describe than to do it. I can now do it faster than using the copy-paste method. Once the object is positioned, I zoom in closer and check that it is where I want it. If not, I move it to where it should be (separate discussion, I'm sure). If it is a location that isn't on a map (such as a farmhouse), I switch to MapQuest Aerial maps and find the item in their "photo-maps" and move the object using those maps. If you zoom in far enough, you will be moving in such small increments that you will be smaller than the smallest increment available, so the object will not move. Can't get any better than that without resorting to techniques beyond this discussion!

      Mark
      KE6BB
    • Adam Mahnke
      There is the right click option. Zoom to where you want the object, right click, select the coordinates, create object here, and away you go. Objects always
      Message 2 of 29 , Feb 10, 2013
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        There is the right click option.

        Zoom to where you want the object, right click, select the coordinates, create object here, and away you go.

        Objects always require an ID no matter what client you're using.

        Adam
        KC2ANT

        -----Original Message-----

        From: KE6BB
        Sent: 10 Feb 2013 18:01:40 GMT
        To: aprsisce@yahoogroups.com
        Subject: [aprsisce] Re: Questions on creating an object

         

        Read James' response first. I might add a couple of tips:

        > That's
        > kind of unfriendly without giving me more of an explanation. Adding
        > some text like "You must position the screen centre to create an
        > object." would be nice.

        I did the same thing the first time I tried it, but then that is why I tried it in a no-pressure situation first. I had the same learning curve with UI-view, but it had a fabulous help system for EVERY screen, which was really nice. (I am NOT going back though!!!)

        > 2) In this particular instance I wanted to create an object that is a
        > farmers house which is an HF contest station. All that you can see
        > on the map is grid roads. I have the lat long from some raw APRS
        > packets last night and I just wanted to copy and paste those in.

        Since my hands are old and shaky, and I am usually using a laptop with a touch pad, I find it easiest to drag the map to the general coordinates I am interested in, and then switch to the cursor keys: UP/DOWN keys to zoom in and out, and CTRL-UP, CTRL-DOWN, CTRL-LEFT, CTRL-RIGHT to move the map in small increments until the coordinates match. It really takes longer to describe than to do it. I can now do it faster than using the copy-paste method. Once the object is positioned, I zoom in closer and check that it is where I want it. If not, I move it to where it should be (separate discussion, I'm sure). If it is a location that isn't on a map (such as a farmhouse), I switch to MapQuest Aerial maps and find the item in their "photo-maps" and move the object using those maps. If you zoom in far enough, you will be moving in such small increments that you will be smaller than the smallest increment available, so the object will not move. Can't get any better than that without resorting to techniques beyond this discussion!

        Mark
        KE6BB

      • Tony VE6MVP
        ... Among other things there are about four different ways of entering a lat long what with degrees and decimals, degrees, minutes and decimal, etc and grid
        Message 3 of 29 , Feb 10, 2013
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          At 10:03 AM 2013-02-10, James Ewen wrote:

          > 1) Configure > Create Object and it asks me to Create Object at Screen
          > Centre. I respond No because I will key in the lat & long (or so I think.)

          This is Lynn's sandbox... we have to play the way he wants us to.
          There have been many requests to have the ability to enter lat/long
          information directly into a dialog box, but Lynn is still
          contemplating how to implement that type of functionality.

          Among other things there are about four different ways of entering a lat long what with degrees and decimals, degrees, minutes and decimal, etc and grid square.

          Now I do agree that 99.9% of the time objects will be in an urban environment or on significant roads so they're easy to locate on the map.  This one just happened to be the 0.1% situation.  St

          Done... http://aprsisce.wikidot.com/menu:configure-objects

          Thanks for the updates to the web pages.

          Tony
        • Tony VE6MVP
          ... Exactly. I figured I d muck with this long before I ever needed it. ... with a touch pad, I *CAN T* stand the frigging touch pad. I always have a mouse
          Message 4 of 29 , Feb 10, 2013
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            At 11:01 AM 2013-02-10, KE6BB wrote:

            I did the same thing the first time I tried it, but then that is why I tried it in a no-pressure situation first.

            Exactly.  I figured I'd muck with this long before I ever needed it.

            >Since my hands are old and shaky, and I am usually using a laptop with a touch pad,

            I *CAN"T* stand the frigging touch pad.  I always have a mouse with me.

            >I find it easiest to drag the map to the general coordinates I am interested in, and then switch to the cursor keys: UP/DOWN keys to zoom in and out, and CTRL-UP, CTRL-DOWN, CTRL-LEFT, CTRL-RIGHT to move the map in small increments until the coordinates match.

            Oh, that's an interesting idea.  Ok, I'll try that.   James, could you update the Wiki to include this technique.

            > If it is a location that isn't on a map (such as a farmhouse), I switch to MapQuest Aerial maps

            I'm a bit confused here.  Do you switch to these maps from within APRSIS32?  Or do you use these externally in a web browser?

            Tony
          • Mark Petiford
            APRISCE/APRSIS32 can use a number of different maps (map tiles), and you can switch from one to the other on the fly.  Take a look at:
            Message 5 of 29 , Feb 10, 2013
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              APRISCE/APRSIS32 can use a number of different maps (map tiles), and you can switch from one to the other on the fly.  Take a look at:

              http://aprsisce.wikidot.com/tile-sets

              I find that each tile set has its own strong and weak points, and the ability to switch on the fly is really nice.

              I am probably the the wrong person to be tutoring on the subject of using different tiles.  I find that I can get some of the ones listed to work, and others won't.

              Mark
              KE6BB


              From: Tony VE6MVP <tony@...>
              To: aprsisce@yahoogroups.com
              Sent: Sunday, February 10, 2013 12:17 PM
              Subject: Re: [aprsisce] Re: Questions on creating an object

               
              At 11:01 AM 2013-02-10, KE6BB wrote:

              I did the same thing the first time I tried it, but then that is why I tried it in a no-pressure situation first.

              Exactly.  I figured I'd muck with this long before I ever needed it.

              >Since my hands are old and shaky, and I am usually using a laptop with a touch pad,

              I *CAN"T* stand the frigging touch pad.  I always have a mouse with me.

              >I find it easiest to drag the map to the general coordinates I am interested in, and then switch to the cursor keys: UP/DOWN keys to zoom in and out, and CTRL-UP, CTRL-DOWN, CTRL-LEFT, CTRL-RIGHT to move the map in small increments until the coordinates match.

              Oh, that's an interesting idea.  Ok, I'll try that.   James, could you update the Wiki to include this technique.

              > If it is a location that isn't on a map (such as a farmhouse), I switch to MapQuest Aerial maps

              I'm a bit confused here.  Do you switch to these maps from within APRSIS32?  Or do you use these externally in a web browser?

              Tony


            • James Ewen
              ... Here in lies the problem... Are you creating a new object (generic term, not necessarily an APRS object), or trying to find out where that object is? Let s
              Message 6 of 29 , Feb 10, 2013
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                On Sun, Feb 10, 2013 at 11:01 AM, KE6BB <rv6amark@...> wrote:

                > Since my hands are old and shaky, and I am usually using a laptop with a touch
                > pad, I find it easiest to drag the map to the general coordinates I am interested in
                >, and then switch to the cursor keys: UP/DOWN keys to zoom in and out, and
                > CTRL-UP, CTRL-DOWN, CTRL-LEFT, CTRL-RIGHT to move the map in small
                > increments until the coordinates match. It really takes longer to describe than
                > to do it. I can now do it faster than using the copy-paste method. Once the object
                > is positioned, I zoom in closer and check that it is where I want it. If not, I move
                > it to where it should be (separate discussion, I'm sure).

                Here in lies the problem...

                Are you creating a new object (generic term, not necessarily an APRS
                object), or trying to find out where that object is?

                Let's pretend we are all standing in front of a big map on the wall.
                There's a big X on the map which is labelled "You are here". We all
                can see that big X on the map, and it is very easy for everyone to
                understand where they are in relation to the map.

                Now someone decides that it's time for a donut... "Where's the closest
                Krispy Kreme?" they pipe up.

                Someone else says, "Half a block west of the intersection of 5th
                street, and 3rd avenue on the south side of the road."

                What happens now? Maybe some people already know where it is located.
                They are good to go, and start walking in the correct direction.
                Others might be able to visualize where the donut shop is located, but
                they still have to look closer at the map to see where it is in
                relation to where they currently are. Still others who have no
                knowledge of the area have to spend a bunch of time looking realy
                closely at the map to read the street numbers, figure out where 5th
                and 3rd intersect, and then determine how to get there from here.

                Wouldn't have been much easier for all involved if someone just
                pointed to the location on the map? Maybe even put a pushpin in the
                map for everyone to see?

                That's what we are talking about here. Someone has to know the
                location of the Krispy Kreme to start with, and then locate it on the
                map, but once the pushpin is stuck in the map, others simply have to
                look for the pushpin, and don't have to worry about looking at the
                street and avenue numbers.

                If you have the latitude/longitude values given to you, it is easier
                to simply enter the numbers into a dialog box and have the icon pop up
                on the screen at the correct location than it is to
                scroll/zoom/scroll/zoom/scroll/zoom until the coordinates display
                matches the desired location.

                Could you imagine how annoying it would be if APRSISCE/32 simply
                created a list of stations on the left, with icons and lat/long
                values, and it was up to you to have to scroll the map around to get
                the lat/long values correct, and then drag the icon and place it on
                the map?

                --
                James
                VE6SRV
              • Mark Petiford
                Re:  If you have the latitude/longitude values given to you, it is easier to simply enter the numbers into a dialog box and have the icon pop up on the
                Message 7 of 29 , Feb 10, 2013
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                  Re:  "If you have the latitude/longitude values given to you, it is easier
                  to simply enter the numbers into a dialog box and have the icon pop up
                  on the screen at the correct location than..."

                  Agreed!  I should have made it clear that I didn't mean to imply that what I do is better, or take the pressure off of Lynn <grin> to consider a "data entry" approach.  Just meant to provide an alternative until (hopefully) that is available.  I am sure that will cause us to repeat the old thread as to what format the Lat/Lon data should be in.  Oops, now I've done it!

                  Mark
                  KE6BB


                  From: James Ewen <ve6srv@...>
                  To: aprsisce@yahoogroups.com
                  Sent: Sunday, February 10, 2013 12:45 PM
                  Subject: Re: [aprsisce] Re: Questions on creating an object

                   
                  On Sun, Feb 10, 2013 at 11:01 AM, KE6BB rv6amark@...> wrote:

                  > Since my hands are old and shaky, and I am usually using a laptop with a touch
                  > pad, I find it easiest to drag the map to the general coordinates I am interested in
                  >, and then switch to the cursor keys: UP/DOWN keys to zoom in and out, and
                  > CTRL-UP, CTRL-DOWN, CTRL-LEFT, CTRL-RIGHT to move the map in small
                  > increments until the coordinates match. It really takes longer to describe than
                  > to do it. I can now do it faster than using the copy-paste method. Once the object
                  > is positioned, I zoom in closer and check that it is where I want it. If not, I move
                  > it to where it should be (separate discussion, I'm sure).

                  Here in lies the problem...

                  Are you creating a new object (generic term, not necessarily an APRS
                  object), or trying to find out where that object is?

                  Let's pretend we are all standing in front of a big map on the wall.
                  There's a big X on the map which is labelled "You are here". We all
                  can see that big X on the map, and it is very easy for everyone to
                  understand where they are in relation to the map.

                  Now someone decides that it's time for a donut... "Where's the closest
                  Krispy Kreme?" they pipe up.

                  Someone else says, "Half a block west of the intersection of 5th
                  street, and 3rd avenue on the south side of the road."

                  What happens now? Maybe some people already know where it is located.
                  They are good to go, and start walking in the correct direction.
                  Others might be able to visualize where the donut shop is located, but
                  they still have to look closer at the map to see where it is in
                  relation to where they currently are. Still others who have no
                  knowledge of the area have to spend a bunch of time looking realy
                  closely at the map to read the street numbers, figure out where 5th
                  and 3rd intersect, and then determine how to get there from here.

                  Wouldn't have been much easier for all involved if someone just
                  pointed to the location on the map? Maybe even put a pushpin in the
                  map for everyone to see?

                  That's what we are talking about here. Someone has to know the
                  location of the Krispy Kreme to start with, and then locate it on the
                  map, but once the pushpin is stuck in the map, others simply have to
                  look for the pushpin, and don't have to worry about looking at the
                  street and avenue numbers.

                  If you have the latitude/longitude values given to you, it is easier
                  to simply enter the numbers into a dialog box and have the icon pop up
                  on the screen at the correct location than it is to
                  scroll/zoom/scroll/zoom/scroll/zoom until the coordinates display
                  matches the desired location.

                  Could you imagine how annoying it would be if APRSISCE/32 simply
                  created a list of stations on the left, with icons and lat/long
                  values, and it was up to you to have to scroll the map around to get
                  the lat/long values correct, and then drag the icon and place it on
                  the map?

                  --
                  James
                  VE6SRV


                • James Ewen
                  ... data ... as ... There s no need to have a fight over what format the lat/long should be in... the APRS specification defines the format used internally.
                  Message 8 of 29 , Feb 10, 2013
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                    On Sun, Feb 10, 2013 at 2:26 PM, Mark Petiford <rv6amark@...> wrote:

                    > Agreed!  I should have made it clear that I didn't mean to imply that what
                    > I do is better, or take the pressure off of Lynn <grin> to consider a "data
                    > entry" approach.  Just meant to provide an alternative until (hopefully)
                    > that is available.  I am sure that will cause us to repeat the old thread as
                    > to what format the Lat/Lon data should be in.  Oops, now I've done it!

                    There's no need to have a fight over what format the lat/long should be in... the APRS specification defines the format used internally.

                    However those silly users outside of the box can't get organized. So, why try and make the users change? Computers are supposed to make life easier for us. 

                    Give the user 3 entry boxes for the degrees, minutes, and seconds.

                    Allow the user to enter the data in whatever format is desired. If a decimal value is entered into one of the boxes, then any information (if entered) in the box(es) to the right is ignored. Your entry dialog box would look something like this:

                    Inline image 1

                    Data entry into the boxes could be accepted in any of the formats below

                    Degrees

                    Minutes

                    Seconds

                    -113

                    17

                    27.00

                    -113

                    17.45

                     

                    -113.2908

                     

                     



                    If a decimal value is entered into the degrees entry box, and the user has also entered values into the Minutes and Seconds boxes, the data in those boxes would be ignored. Another option would be to clear and grey out the boxes to the right of a box that has a decimal entered into it to show the user that the subsequent data will be ignored. Similar action would take place if whole degrees and decimal minutes values are entered... the seconds values would be greyed out/ignored.

                    With this entry method available, one does not have to worry about changing the program preferences, or converting between DDD.ddddd / DDD MM.mmm / DDD MM SS.sss to the required format before entry.

                    --
                    James
                    VE6SRV
                  • Tony VE6MVP
                    ... Agreed with a minor clarification. There should be some text on that screen something like: Degrees and Minutes can include decimal portion. Otherwise
                    Message 9 of 29 , Feb 10, 2013
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                      At 04:04 PM 2013-02-10, James Ewen wrote:

                      Allow the user to enter the data in whatever format is desired. If a decimal value is entered into one of the boxes, then any information (if entered) in the box(es) to the right is ignored. Your entry dialog box would look something like this:

                      Inline image 1

                      Agreed with a minor clarification.   There should be some text on that screen something like:
                               Degrees and Minutes can include decimal portion. 
                      Otherwise newbies to the software will labouriously convert decimal degrees to Degrees, Minutes and Seconds.

                      Tony
                    • James Ewen
                      ... Yes, there would need to be a bit of text explaining things to the user. RadioMobile uses this exact entry method, and it works exceedingly well. -- James
                      Message 10 of 29 , Feb 10, 2013
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                        On Sun, Feb 10, 2013 at 4:24 PM, Tony VE6MVP <tony@...> wrote:

                        > Agreed with a minor clarification. There should be some text on that
                        > screen something like:
                        > Degrees and Minutes can include decimal portion.
                        > Otherwise newbies to the software will labouriously convert decimal
                        > degrees to Degrees, Minutes and Seconds.

                        Yes, there would need to be a bit of text explaining things to the
                        user. RadioMobile uses this exact entry method, and it works
                        exceedingly well.

                        --
                        James
                        VE6SRV
                      • Fred Hillhouse
                        I have found a couple of bad links on the WIKI and have fixed them. If you have trouble with a tile set, please list it here. I would be happy to fix it. The
                        Message 11 of 29 , Feb 11, 2013
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                          I have found a couple of bad links on the WIKI and have fixed them. If you have trouble with a tile set, please list it here. I would be happy to fix it.
                           
                          The AEROMAP.US (aeronautical charts) has become a dead-end so it is know longer in the WIKI.
                          And I found one of the ArcGIS links to be incorrect so it has been fixed.
                           
                          Thanks!
                          Fred, N7FMH
                           


                          From: aprsisce@yahoogroups.com [mailto:aprsisce@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Mark Petiford
                          Sent: Sunday, February 10, 2013 15:33
                          To: aprsisce@yahoogroups.com
                          Subject: Re: [aprsisce] Re: Questions on creating an object

                           

                          APRISCE/APRSIS32 can use a number of different maps (map tiles), and you can switch from one to the other on the fly.  Take a look at:

                          http://aprsisce.wikidot.com/tile-sets

                          I find that each tile set has its own strong and weak points, and the ability to switch on the fly is really nice.

                          I am probably the the wrong person to be tutoring on the subject of using different tiles.  I find that I can get some of the ones listed to work, and others won't.

                          Mark
                          KE6BB


                          From: Tony VE6MVP <tony@...>
                          To: aprsisce@yahoogroups.com
                          Sent: Sunday, February 10, 2013 12:17 PM
                          Subject: Re: [aprsisce] Re: Questions on creating an object

                           
                          At 11:01 AM 2013-02-10, KE6BB wrote:

                          I did the same thing the first time I tried it, but then that is why I tried it in a no-pressure situation first.

                          Exactly.  I figured I'd muck with this long before I ever needed it.

                          >Since my hands are old and shaky, and I am usually using a laptop with a touch pad,

                          I *CAN"T* stand the frigging touch pad.  I always have a mouse with me.

                          >I find it easiest to drag the map to the general coordinates I am interested in, and then switch to the cursor keys: UP/DOWN keys to zoom in and out, and CTRL-UP, CTRL-DOWN, CTRL-LEFT, CTRL-RIGHT to move the map in small increments until the coordinates match.

                          Oh, that's an interesting idea.  Ok, I'll try that.   James, could you update the Wiki to include this technique.

                          > If it is a location that isn't on a map (such as a farmhouse), I switch to MapQuest Aerial maps

                          I'm a bit confused here.  Do you switch to these maps from within APRSIS32?  Or do you use these externally in a web browser?

                          Tony


                        • Fred Hillhouse
                          I should also add that the links are often changed at the server end. So while today the link might work, tomorrow it may not. Best regards, Fred, N7FMH _____
                          Message 12 of 29 , Feb 11, 2013
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                            I should also add that the links are often changed at the server end. So while today the link might work, tomorrow it may not.
                             
                            Best regards,
                            Fred, N7FMH
                             


                            From: aprsisce@yahoogroups.com [mailto:aprsisce@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Fred Hillhouse
                            Sent: Monday, February 11, 2013 10:26
                            To: aprsisce@yahoogroups.com
                            Subject: RE: [aprsisce] Re: Questions on creating an object

                             

                            I have found a couple of bad links on the WIKI and have fixed them. If you have trouble with a tile set, please list it here. I would be happy to fix it.
                             
                            The AEROMAP.US (aeronautical charts) has become a dead-end so it is know longer in the WIKI.
                            And I found one of the ArcGIS links to be incorrect so it has been fixed.
                             
                            Thanks!
                            Fred, N7FMH
                             


                            From: aprsisce@yahoogroups.com [mailto:aprsisce@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Mark Petiford
                            Sent: Sunday, February 10, 2013 15:33
                            To: aprsisce@yahoogroups.com
                            Subject: Re: [aprsisce] Re: Questions on creating an object

                             

                            APRISCE/APRSIS32 can use a number of different maps (map tiles), and you can switch from one to the other on the fly.  Take a look at:

                            http://aprsisce.wikidot.com/tile-sets

                            I find that each tile set has its own strong and weak points, and the ability to switch on the fly is really nice.

                            I am probably the the wrong person to be tutoring on the subject of using different tiles.  I find that I can get some of the ones listed to work, and others won't.

                            Mark
                            KE6BB


                            From: Tony VE6MVP <tony@...>
                            To: aprsisce@yahoogroups.com
                            Sent: Sunday, February 10, 2013 12:17 PM
                            Subject: Re: [aprsisce] Re: Questions on creating an object

                             
                            At 11:01 AM 2013-02-10, KE6BB wrote:

                            I did the same thing the first time I tried it, but then that is why I tried it in a no-pressure situation first.

                            Exactly.  I figured I'd muck with this long before I ever needed it.

                            >Since my hands are old and shaky, and I am usually using a laptop with a touch pad,

                            I *CAN"T* stand the frigging touch pad.  I always have a mouse with me.

                            >I find it easiest to drag the map to the general coordinates I am interested in, and then switch to the cursor keys: UP/DOWN keys to zoom in and out, and CTRL-UP, CTRL-DOWN, CTRL-LEFT, CTRL-RIGHT to move the map in small increments until the coordinates match.

                            Oh, that's an interesting idea.  Ok, I'll try that.   James, could you update the Wiki to include this technique.

                            > If it is a location that isn't on a map (such as a farmhouse), I switch to MapQuest Aerial maps

                            I'm a bit confused here.  Do you switch to these maps from within APRSIS32?  Or do you use these externally in a web browser?

                            Tony


                          • KE6BB
                            ... No, Fred. Our thanks to you!!! We really appreciate your snooping these things out. Sorry to see the aero maps go. Was one of my favorite play toys.
                            Message 13 of 29 , Feb 11, 2013
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                              Re:
                              > Thanks!
                              > Fred, N7FMH
                              >

                              No, Fred. Our thanks to you!!! We really appreciate your "snooping" these things out. Sorry to see the aero maps go. Was one of my favorite play toys.

                              Mark
                              KE6BB
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