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RE: [aprsisce] Lower Case Letters in Maidenhead Locator?

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  • Steve Daniels
    I must admit I usually see and characters after the first 6 as lowercase and as the spec said the should be received in both, I don t see why it matters how
    Message 1 of 29 , Feb 9, 2013
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      I must admit I usually see and characters after the first 6 as lowercase and as the spec said the should be received in both, I don’t see why it matters how they are transmitted

       

      Steve Daniels

      Amateur Radio Callsign G6UIM

      Torbay Freecycle  Owner

      http://uk.groups.yahoo.com/group/torbay_freecycle

      APRSISCE/32 Beta tester and WIKI editor http://aprsisce.wikidot.com

       


      From: aprsisce@yahoogroups.com [mailto: aprsisce@yahoogroups.com ] On Behalf Of Bob Harris
      Sent: 09 February 2013 20:32
      To: aprsisce@yahoogroups.com
      Subject: Re: [aprsisce] Lower Case Letters in Maidenhead Locator?

       

      Maybe Dr. Bob will weigh in. Outside of APRS, every time I have seen a 6-character Maidenhead grid square, the last two digits have been in lower case. A quick tour of the web seems to say that those two characters can be either upper or lower case.

      On 2/9/2013 3:20 PM, Steve Daniels wrote:

       

      Not having read the spec seems to me Dire Wolf is doing a reasonable thing, I will have a look through and see if there is an update.

      But Lynn will probably know

       

      Steve Daniels

      Amateur Radio Callsign G6UIM

      Torbay Freecycle  Owner

      http://uk.groups.yahoo.com/group/torbay_freecycle

      APRSISCE/32 Beta tester and WIKI editor http://aprsisce.wikidot.com

       


      From: aprsisce@yahoogroups.com [mailto:aprsisce@yahoogroups.com ] On Behalf Of Colin XSD
      Sent: 09 February 2013 19:00
      To: aprsisce@yahoogroups.com
      Cc: John Langner WB2OSZ
      Subject: Re: [aprsisce] Lower Case Letters in Maidenhead Locator?

       

      Copied back to the Group for any comments since I don't have a clue.


      73,
      Colin
      M0XSD.

      On 09/02/2013 18:40, John Langner WB2OSZ wrote:

      Please refer to the APRS Protocol Reference, chapter 16.  http://aprs.org/doc/APRS101.PDF 

       

       

      Page 81:  

      The Maidenhead grid locator may be 4 or 6 characters long, and must

      immediately follow the > Data Type Identifier.

      All letters must be transmitted in upper case. Letters may be received in

      upper case or lower case.”

       

      Dire Wolf complains if lower case is found in the grid locator but still processes it the same as upper case.

       

      The protocol reference also states the first character of status text must be a space:

       

      “The Symbol Table Identifier and Symbol Code follow the locator.

      If the report also contains status text, the first character of the text must be a

      space.”

       

      It even gives a couple examples showing this.

       

       

      Perhaps there is some other later addendum that says a DX report doesn’t need to start with a space.

       

      If you can point me to a suitable reference, I will take out the error message.

       

       

      From: Colin XSD [mailto:m0xsd@...]
      Sent: Saturday, February 09, 2013 11:23 AM
      To: wb2osz@...
      Subject: Fwd: RE: [aprsisce] Lower Case Letters in Maidenhead Locator?

       

      Hi John,

      Please see the thread below.


      73,
      Colin
      M0XSD



      -------- Original Message --------

      Subject:

      RE: [aprsisce] Lower Case Letters in Maidenhead Locator?

      Date:

      Sat, 9 Feb 2013 15:20:53 -0000

      From:

      Steve Daniels <steve@...>

      Reply-To:

      aprsisce@yahoogroups.com

      To:

      <aprsisce@yahoogroups.com>



       

      Looks like John needs a bug report then, we are beta testing it after all

       

      Steve Daniels

      Amateur Radio Callsign G6UIM

      Torbay Freecycle  Owner

      http://uk.groups.yahoo.com/group/torbay_freecycle

      APRSISCE/32 Beta tester and WIKI editor http://aprsisce.wikidot.com

       


      From: aprsisce@yahoogroups.com [mailto:aprsisce@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Colin XSD
      Sent: 09 February 2013 15:03
      To: aprsisce@yahoogroups.com
      Subject: Re: [aprsisce] Lower Case Letters in Maidenhead Locator?

       

      Hi Bob,

      I think you are right, it looks like DireWolf isn't interpreting the DX report correctly, seeing the '/-' as a Symbol.

      I can rule out that it is anything the Digi is doing since I have also now heard my own packet direct & I get the same result.



      73,
      Colin
      M0XSD.

      On 09/02/2013 14:39, Bob Harris wrote:

      Re grid square: looks like John has an error in his code. Everything I have seen says the fifth and sixth characters are lower case letters.

      I have seen reports of "errors" (like the "Found 'D'...") on some packets received by DireWolf but aprsis32 handles the packets without a problem.

      On 2/9/2013 8:52 AM, Colin XSD wrote:

      I've started getting these warnings/errors showing up in my DireWolf display:

      So far I have only seen the warnings/errors appear on my own packets that I'm hearing being Digipeated, anyone have any idea if it a problem with my APRSIS64 setup or something the Digi is doing to my Packet?


      73,
      Colin
      M0XSD.

       

      --

      Bob Harris (K9UDX)
      Bath , NH

       

       

       

       

       

      --

      Bob Harris (K9UDX)
      Bath , NH

    • Tony VE6MVP
      Folks So just for fun I decide to create a test object so I know what I m doing. Of course I have some questions and comments. 1) Configure Create
      Message 2 of 29 , Feb 9, 2013
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        Folks

        So just for fun I decide to create a test object so I know what I'm doing.   Of course I have some questions and comments.  <smile>

        1) Configure > Create Object and it asks me to Create Object at Screen Centre.  I respond No because I will key in the lat & long (or so I think.)  Then that's it.  My first response is WTF?   That's kind of unfriendly without giving me more of an explanation.   Adding some text like "You must position the screen centre to create an object." would be nice.

        2) In this particular instance I wanted to create an object that is a farmers house which is an HF contest station.  All that you can see on the map is grid roads.   I have the lat long from some raw APRS packets last night and I just wanted to copy and paste those in.  How can I do that?   Besides, presumably, updating the XML configuration file.

        3)   http://aprsisce.wikidot.com/menu:configure
        My eyes skipped right over some text on that page.  Could a wiki editor please change
                 Create a new object at the centre of the screen. more information here createobject     
        to something like
                 Create a new object at the centre of the screen.   
        And put an underline link at this entire sentence rather than having createobject in lower case without an intervening blank..

        3) I get a message stating ID and comment are required.  I have no idea what that means.   There is no mention of ID in the Wiki create objects page  Putting something done in the second from the top field on the right hand side clears that message but I have no idea what that field is for.  Ahh, in reading the create object page that is probably the Name field.

        4) I'm assuming Comprs means packet compression?  Not that it's a big deal but that field isn't mentioned on the Create Objects page.

        I'll probably have some more comments later when I think about things.  <smile>

        Tony



      • James Ewen
        ... This is Lynn s sandbox... we have to play the way he wants us to. There have been many requests to have the ability to enter lat/long information directly
        Message 3 of 29 , Feb 10, 2013
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          On Sat, Feb 9, 2013 at 10:40 PM, Tony VE6MVP <tony@...> wrote:

          > 1) Configure > Create Object and it asks me to Create Object at Screen
          > Centre. I respond No because I will key in the lat & long (or so I think.)
          > Then that's it. My first response is WTF? That's kind of unfriendly
          > without giving me more of an explanation. Adding some text like "You must
          > position the screen centre to create an object." would be nice.

          This is Lynn's sandbox... we have to play the way he wants us to.
          There have been many requests to have the ability to enter lat/long
          information directly into a dialog box, but Lynn is still
          contemplating how to implement that type of functionality. If you look
          at just about everything you do with APRSISCE/32, if it has to do with
          the map, you have to center the map on what you want to deal with,
          then you choose the action. Very rarely can you click on a spot on the
          map and be able to perform some type of action at that point.

          > 2) In this particular instance I wanted to create an object that is a
          > farmers house which is an HF contest station. All that you can see on the
          > map is grid roads. I have the lat long from some raw APRS packets last
          > night and I just wanted to copy and paste those in. How can I do that?
          > Besides, presumably, updating the XML configuration file.

          If you want to directly enter information like that, you need to shut
          down the program, edit the XML file, and then start back up again. You
          could also use the test packet feature... hand craft an object for
          VE5RI with the packet format perfect, and then hit CTRL-P and paste
          your test packet into the dialog box. Your desired object will appear
          on the map.

          VE6SRV-14>APWW10,WIDE2-1:;VE5RI *111111z5307.84N/10951.28W-Len's
          Contest Station


          > 3) http://aprsisce.wikidot.com/menu:configure
          > My eyes skipped right over some text on that page. Could a wiki editor
          > please change
          > Create a new object at the centre of the screen. more information
          > here createobject
          > to something like
          > Create a new object at the centre of the screen.
          > And put an underline link at this entire sentence rather than having
          > createobject in lower case without an intervening blank..

          Done... http://aprsisce.wikidot.com/menu:configure-objects

          > 3) I get a message stating ID and comment are required. I have no idea
          > what that means. There is no mention of ID in the Wiki create objects page
          > Putting something done in the second from the top field on the right hand
          > side clears that message but I have no idea what that field is for. Ahh, in
          > reading the create object page that is probably the Name field.

          Looks like Lynn ran out of room to put a label beside the Name (ID) input box.

          > 4) I'm assuming Comprs means packet compression? Not that it's a big deal
          > but that field isn't mentioned on the Create Objects page.

          We'll have to blame that on Steve and Lynn... I'm big into using
          screenshots so that you can reference what the screen looks like while
          reading the descriptions. I tend to build pages like this:
          http://aprsisce.wikidot.com/direction-finding

          I'll see if I can make that wiki page a little more descriptive.

          --
          James
          VE6SRV
        • KE6BB
          ... I did the same thing the first time I tried it, but then that is why I tried it in a no-pressure situation first. I had the same learning curve with
          Message 4 of 29 , Feb 10, 2013
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            Read James' response first. I might add a couple of tips:

            > That's
            > kind of unfriendly without giving me more of an explanation. Adding
            > some text like "You must position the screen centre to create an
            > object." would be nice.

            I did the same thing the first time I tried it, but then that is why I tried it in a no-pressure situation first. I had the same learning curve with UI-view, but it had a fabulous help system for EVERY screen, which was really nice. (I am NOT going back though!!!)

            > 2) In this particular instance I wanted to create an object that is a
            > farmers house which is an HF contest station. All that you can see
            > on the map is grid roads. I have the lat long from some raw APRS
            > packets last night and I just wanted to copy and paste those in.

            Since my hands are old and shaky, and I am usually using a laptop with a touch pad, I find it easiest to drag the map to the general coordinates I am interested in, and then switch to the cursor keys: UP/DOWN keys to zoom in and out, and CTRL-UP, CTRL-DOWN, CTRL-LEFT, CTRL-RIGHT to move the map in small increments until the coordinates match. It really takes longer to describe than to do it. I can now do it faster than using the copy-paste method. Once the object is positioned, I zoom in closer and check that it is where I want it. If not, I move it to where it should be (separate discussion, I'm sure). If it is a location that isn't on a map (such as a farmhouse), I switch to MapQuest Aerial maps and find the item in their "photo-maps" and move the object using those maps. If you zoom in far enough, you will be moving in such small increments that you will be smaller than the smallest increment available, so the object will not move. Can't get any better than that without resorting to techniques beyond this discussion!

            Mark
            KE6BB
          • Adam Mahnke
            There is the right click option. Zoom to where you want the object, right click, select the coordinates, create object here, and away you go. Objects always
            Message 5 of 29 , Feb 10, 2013
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              There is the right click option.

              Zoom to where you want the object, right click, select the coordinates, create object here, and away you go.

              Objects always require an ID no matter what client you're using.

              Adam
              KC2ANT

              -----Original Message-----

              From: KE6BB
              Sent: 10 Feb 2013 18:01:40 GMT
              To: aprsisce@yahoogroups.com
              Subject: [aprsisce] Re: Questions on creating an object

               

              Read James' response first. I might add a couple of tips:

              > That's
              > kind of unfriendly without giving me more of an explanation. Adding
              > some text like "You must position the screen centre to create an
              > object." would be nice.

              I did the same thing the first time I tried it, but then that is why I tried it in a no-pressure situation first. I had the same learning curve with UI-view, but it had a fabulous help system for EVERY screen, which was really nice. (I am NOT going back though!!!)

              > 2) In this particular instance I wanted to create an object that is a
              > farmers house which is an HF contest station. All that you can see
              > on the map is grid roads. I have the lat long from some raw APRS
              > packets last night and I just wanted to copy and paste those in.

              Since my hands are old and shaky, and I am usually using a laptop with a touch pad, I find it easiest to drag the map to the general coordinates I am interested in, and then switch to the cursor keys: UP/DOWN keys to zoom in and out, and CTRL-UP, CTRL-DOWN, CTRL-LEFT, CTRL-RIGHT to move the map in small increments until the coordinates match. It really takes longer to describe than to do it. I can now do it faster than using the copy-paste method. Once the object is positioned, I zoom in closer and check that it is where I want it. If not, I move it to where it should be (separate discussion, I'm sure). If it is a location that isn't on a map (such as a farmhouse), I switch to MapQuest Aerial maps and find the item in their "photo-maps" and move the object using those maps. If you zoom in far enough, you will be moving in such small increments that you will be smaller than the smallest increment available, so the object will not move. Can't get any better than that without resorting to techniques beyond this discussion!

              Mark
              KE6BB

            • Tony VE6MVP
              ... Among other things there are about four different ways of entering a lat long what with degrees and decimals, degrees, minutes and decimal, etc and grid
              Message 6 of 29 , Feb 10, 2013
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                At 10:03 AM 2013-02-10, James Ewen wrote:

                > 1) Configure > Create Object and it asks me to Create Object at Screen
                > Centre. I respond No because I will key in the lat & long (or so I think.)

                This is Lynn's sandbox... we have to play the way he wants us to.
                There have been many requests to have the ability to enter lat/long
                information directly into a dialog box, but Lynn is still
                contemplating how to implement that type of functionality.

                Among other things there are about four different ways of entering a lat long what with degrees and decimals, degrees, minutes and decimal, etc and grid square.

                Now I do agree that 99.9% of the time objects will be in an urban environment or on significant roads so they're easy to locate on the map.  This one just happened to be the 0.1% situation.  St

                Done... http://aprsisce.wikidot.com/menu:configure-objects

                Thanks for the updates to the web pages.

                Tony
              • Tony VE6MVP
                ... Exactly. I figured I d muck with this long before I ever needed it. ... with a touch pad, I *CAN T* stand the frigging touch pad. I always have a mouse
                Message 7 of 29 , Feb 10, 2013
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                  At 11:01 AM 2013-02-10, KE6BB wrote:

                  I did the same thing the first time I tried it, but then that is why I tried it in a no-pressure situation first.

                  Exactly.  I figured I'd muck with this long before I ever needed it.

                  >Since my hands are old and shaky, and I am usually using a laptop with a touch pad,

                  I *CAN"T* stand the frigging touch pad.  I always have a mouse with me.

                  >I find it easiest to drag the map to the general coordinates I am interested in, and then switch to the cursor keys: UP/DOWN keys to zoom in and out, and CTRL-UP, CTRL-DOWN, CTRL-LEFT, CTRL-RIGHT to move the map in small increments until the coordinates match.

                  Oh, that's an interesting idea.  Ok, I'll try that.   James, could you update the Wiki to include this technique.

                  > If it is a location that isn't on a map (such as a farmhouse), I switch to MapQuest Aerial maps

                  I'm a bit confused here.  Do you switch to these maps from within APRSIS32?  Or do you use these externally in a web browser?

                  Tony
                • Mark Petiford
                  APRISCE/APRSIS32 can use a number of different maps (map tiles), and you can switch from one to the other on the fly.  Take a look at:
                  Message 8 of 29 , Feb 10, 2013
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                    APRISCE/APRSIS32 can use a number of different maps (map tiles), and you can switch from one to the other on the fly.  Take a look at:

                    http://aprsisce.wikidot.com/tile-sets

                    I find that each tile set has its own strong and weak points, and the ability to switch on the fly is really nice.

                    I am probably the the wrong person to be tutoring on the subject of using different tiles.  I find that I can get some of the ones listed to work, and others won't.

                    Mark
                    KE6BB


                    From: Tony VE6MVP <tony@...>
                    To: aprsisce@yahoogroups.com
                    Sent: Sunday, February 10, 2013 12:17 PM
                    Subject: Re: [aprsisce] Re: Questions on creating an object

                     
                    At 11:01 AM 2013-02-10, KE6BB wrote:

                    I did the same thing the first time I tried it, but then that is why I tried it in a no-pressure situation first.

                    Exactly.  I figured I'd muck with this long before I ever needed it.

                    >Since my hands are old and shaky, and I am usually using a laptop with a touch pad,

                    I *CAN"T* stand the frigging touch pad.  I always have a mouse with me.

                    >I find it easiest to drag the map to the general coordinates I am interested in, and then switch to the cursor keys: UP/DOWN keys to zoom in and out, and CTRL-UP, CTRL-DOWN, CTRL-LEFT, CTRL-RIGHT to move the map in small increments until the coordinates match.

                    Oh, that's an interesting idea.  Ok, I'll try that.   James, could you update the Wiki to include this technique.

                    > If it is a location that isn't on a map (such as a farmhouse), I switch to MapQuest Aerial maps

                    I'm a bit confused here.  Do you switch to these maps from within APRSIS32?  Or do you use these externally in a web browser?

                    Tony


                  • James Ewen
                    ... Here in lies the problem... Are you creating a new object (generic term, not necessarily an APRS object), or trying to find out where that object is? Let s
                    Message 9 of 29 , Feb 10, 2013
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                      On Sun, Feb 10, 2013 at 11:01 AM, KE6BB <rv6amark@...> wrote:

                      > Since my hands are old and shaky, and I am usually using a laptop with a touch
                      > pad, I find it easiest to drag the map to the general coordinates I am interested in
                      >, and then switch to the cursor keys: UP/DOWN keys to zoom in and out, and
                      > CTRL-UP, CTRL-DOWN, CTRL-LEFT, CTRL-RIGHT to move the map in small
                      > increments until the coordinates match. It really takes longer to describe than
                      > to do it. I can now do it faster than using the copy-paste method. Once the object
                      > is positioned, I zoom in closer and check that it is where I want it. If not, I move
                      > it to where it should be (separate discussion, I'm sure).

                      Here in lies the problem...

                      Are you creating a new object (generic term, not necessarily an APRS
                      object), or trying to find out where that object is?

                      Let's pretend we are all standing in front of a big map on the wall.
                      There's a big X on the map which is labelled "You are here". We all
                      can see that big X on the map, and it is very easy for everyone to
                      understand where they are in relation to the map.

                      Now someone decides that it's time for a donut... "Where's the closest
                      Krispy Kreme?" they pipe up.

                      Someone else says, "Half a block west of the intersection of 5th
                      street, and 3rd avenue on the south side of the road."

                      What happens now? Maybe some people already know where it is located.
                      They are good to go, and start walking in the correct direction.
                      Others might be able to visualize where the donut shop is located, but
                      they still have to look closer at the map to see where it is in
                      relation to where they currently are. Still others who have no
                      knowledge of the area have to spend a bunch of time looking realy
                      closely at the map to read the street numbers, figure out where 5th
                      and 3rd intersect, and then determine how to get there from here.

                      Wouldn't have been much easier for all involved if someone just
                      pointed to the location on the map? Maybe even put a pushpin in the
                      map for everyone to see?

                      That's what we are talking about here. Someone has to know the
                      location of the Krispy Kreme to start with, and then locate it on the
                      map, but once the pushpin is stuck in the map, others simply have to
                      look for the pushpin, and don't have to worry about looking at the
                      street and avenue numbers.

                      If you have the latitude/longitude values given to you, it is easier
                      to simply enter the numbers into a dialog box and have the icon pop up
                      on the screen at the correct location than it is to
                      scroll/zoom/scroll/zoom/scroll/zoom until the coordinates display
                      matches the desired location.

                      Could you imagine how annoying it would be if APRSISCE/32 simply
                      created a list of stations on the left, with icons and lat/long
                      values, and it was up to you to have to scroll the map around to get
                      the lat/long values correct, and then drag the icon and place it on
                      the map?

                      --
                      James
                      VE6SRV
                    • Mark Petiford
                      Re:  If you have the latitude/longitude values given to you, it is easier to simply enter the numbers into a dialog box and have the icon pop up on the
                      Message 10 of 29 , Feb 10, 2013
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                        Re:  "If you have the latitude/longitude values given to you, it is easier
                        to simply enter the numbers into a dialog box and have the icon pop up
                        on the screen at the correct location than..."

                        Agreed!  I should have made it clear that I didn't mean to imply that what I do is better, or take the pressure off of Lynn <grin> to consider a "data entry" approach.  Just meant to provide an alternative until (hopefully) that is available.  I am sure that will cause us to repeat the old thread as to what format the Lat/Lon data should be in.  Oops, now I've done it!

                        Mark
                        KE6BB


                        From: James Ewen <ve6srv@...>
                        To: aprsisce@yahoogroups.com
                        Sent: Sunday, February 10, 2013 12:45 PM
                        Subject: Re: [aprsisce] Re: Questions on creating an object

                         
                        On Sun, Feb 10, 2013 at 11:01 AM, KE6BB rv6amark@...> wrote:

                        > Since my hands are old and shaky, and I am usually using a laptop with a touch
                        > pad, I find it easiest to drag the map to the general coordinates I am interested in
                        >, and then switch to the cursor keys: UP/DOWN keys to zoom in and out, and
                        > CTRL-UP, CTRL-DOWN, CTRL-LEFT, CTRL-RIGHT to move the map in small
                        > increments until the coordinates match. It really takes longer to describe than
                        > to do it. I can now do it faster than using the copy-paste method. Once the object
                        > is positioned, I zoom in closer and check that it is where I want it. If not, I move
                        > it to where it should be (separate discussion, I'm sure).

                        Here in lies the problem...

                        Are you creating a new object (generic term, not necessarily an APRS
                        object), or trying to find out where that object is?

                        Let's pretend we are all standing in front of a big map on the wall.
                        There's a big X on the map which is labelled "You are here". We all
                        can see that big X on the map, and it is very easy for everyone to
                        understand where they are in relation to the map.

                        Now someone decides that it's time for a donut... "Where's the closest
                        Krispy Kreme?" they pipe up.

                        Someone else says, "Half a block west of the intersection of 5th
                        street, and 3rd avenue on the south side of the road."

                        What happens now? Maybe some people already know where it is located.
                        They are good to go, and start walking in the correct direction.
                        Others might be able to visualize where the donut shop is located, but
                        they still have to look closer at the map to see where it is in
                        relation to where they currently are. Still others who have no
                        knowledge of the area have to spend a bunch of time looking realy
                        closely at the map to read the street numbers, figure out where 5th
                        and 3rd intersect, and then determine how to get there from here.

                        Wouldn't have been much easier for all involved if someone just
                        pointed to the location on the map? Maybe even put a pushpin in the
                        map for everyone to see?

                        That's what we are talking about here. Someone has to know the
                        location of the Krispy Kreme to start with, and then locate it on the
                        map, but once the pushpin is stuck in the map, others simply have to
                        look for the pushpin, and don't have to worry about looking at the
                        street and avenue numbers.

                        If you have the latitude/longitude values given to you, it is easier
                        to simply enter the numbers into a dialog box and have the icon pop up
                        on the screen at the correct location than it is to
                        scroll/zoom/scroll/zoom/scroll/zoom until the coordinates display
                        matches the desired location.

                        Could you imagine how annoying it would be if APRSISCE/32 simply
                        created a list of stations on the left, with icons and lat/long
                        values, and it was up to you to have to scroll the map around to get
                        the lat/long values correct, and then drag the icon and place it on
                        the map?

                        --
                        James
                        VE6SRV


                      • James Ewen
                        ... data ... as ... There s no need to have a fight over what format the lat/long should be in... the APRS specification defines the format used internally.
                        Message 11 of 29 , Feb 10, 2013
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                          On Sun, Feb 10, 2013 at 2:26 PM, Mark Petiford <rv6amark@...> wrote:

                          > Agreed!  I should have made it clear that I didn't mean to imply that what
                          > I do is better, or take the pressure off of Lynn <grin> to consider a "data
                          > entry" approach.  Just meant to provide an alternative until (hopefully)
                          > that is available.  I am sure that will cause us to repeat the old thread as
                          > to what format the Lat/Lon data should be in.  Oops, now I've done it!

                          There's no need to have a fight over what format the lat/long should be in... the APRS specification defines the format used internally.

                          However those silly users outside of the box can't get organized. So, why try and make the users change? Computers are supposed to make life easier for us. 

                          Give the user 3 entry boxes for the degrees, minutes, and seconds.

                          Allow the user to enter the data in whatever format is desired. If a decimal value is entered into one of the boxes, then any information (if entered) in the box(es) to the right is ignored. Your entry dialog box would look something like this:

                          Inline image 1

                          Data entry into the boxes could be accepted in any of the formats below

                          Degrees

                          Minutes

                          Seconds

                          -113

                          17

                          27.00

                          -113

                          17.45

                           

                          -113.2908

                           

                           



                          If a decimal value is entered into the degrees entry box, and the user has also entered values into the Minutes and Seconds boxes, the data in those boxes would be ignored. Another option would be to clear and grey out the boxes to the right of a box that has a decimal entered into it to show the user that the subsequent data will be ignored. Similar action would take place if whole degrees and decimal minutes values are entered... the seconds values would be greyed out/ignored.

                          With this entry method available, one does not have to worry about changing the program preferences, or converting between DDD.ddddd / DDD MM.mmm / DDD MM SS.sss to the required format before entry.

                          --
                          James
                          VE6SRV
                        • Tony VE6MVP
                          ... Agreed with a minor clarification. There should be some text on that screen something like: Degrees and Minutes can include decimal portion. Otherwise
                          Message 12 of 29 , Feb 10, 2013
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                            At 04:04 PM 2013-02-10, James Ewen wrote:

                            Allow the user to enter the data in whatever format is desired. If a decimal value is entered into one of the boxes, then any information (if entered) in the box(es) to the right is ignored. Your entry dialog box would look something like this:

                            Inline image 1

                            Agreed with a minor clarification.   There should be some text on that screen something like:
                                     Degrees and Minutes can include decimal portion. 
                            Otherwise newbies to the software will labouriously convert decimal degrees to Degrees, Minutes and Seconds.

                            Tony
                          • James Ewen
                            ... Yes, there would need to be a bit of text explaining things to the user. RadioMobile uses this exact entry method, and it works exceedingly well. -- James
                            Message 13 of 29 , Feb 10, 2013
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                              On Sun, Feb 10, 2013 at 4:24 PM, Tony VE6MVP <tony@...> wrote:

                              > Agreed with a minor clarification. There should be some text on that
                              > screen something like:
                              > Degrees and Minutes can include decimal portion.
                              > Otherwise newbies to the software will labouriously convert decimal
                              > degrees to Degrees, Minutes and Seconds.

                              Yes, there would need to be a bit of text explaining things to the
                              user. RadioMobile uses this exact entry method, and it works
                              exceedingly well.

                              --
                              James
                              VE6SRV
                            • Fred Hillhouse
                              I have found a couple of bad links on the WIKI and have fixed them. If you have trouble with a tile set, please list it here. I would be happy to fix it. The
                              Message 14 of 29 , Feb 11, 2013
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                                I have found a couple of bad links on the WIKI and have fixed them. If you have trouble with a tile set, please list it here. I would be happy to fix it.
                                 
                                The AEROMAP.US (aeronautical charts) has become a dead-end so it is know longer in the WIKI.
                                And I found one of the ArcGIS links to be incorrect so it has been fixed.
                                 
                                Thanks!
                                Fred, N7FMH
                                 


                                From: aprsisce@yahoogroups.com [mailto:aprsisce@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Mark Petiford
                                Sent: Sunday, February 10, 2013 15:33
                                To: aprsisce@yahoogroups.com
                                Subject: Re: [aprsisce] Re: Questions on creating an object

                                 

                                APRISCE/APRSIS32 can use a number of different maps (map tiles), and you can switch from one to the other on the fly.  Take a look at:

                                http://aprsisce.wikidot.com/tile-sets

                                I find that each tile set has its own strong and weak points, and the ability to switch on the fly is really nice.

                                I am probably the the wrong person to be tutoring on the subject of using different tiles.  I find that I can get some of the ones listed to work, and others won't.

                                Mark
                                KE6BB


                                From: Tony VE6MVP <tony@...>
                                To: aprsisce@yahoogroups.com
                                Sent: Sunday, February 10, 2013 12:17 PM
                                Subject: Re: [aprsisce] Re: Questions on creating an object

                                 
                                At 11:01 AM 2013-02-10, KE6BB wrote:

                                I did the same thing the first time I tried it, but then that is why I tried it in a no-pressure situation first.

                                Exactly.  I figured I'd muck with this long before I ever needed it.

                                >Since my hands are old and shaky, and I am usually using a laptop with a touch pad,

                                I *CAN"T* stand the frigging touch pad.  I always have a mouse with me.

                                >I find it easiest to drag the map to the general coordinates I am interested in, and then switch to the cursor keys: UP/DOWN keys to zoom in and out, and CTRL-UP, CTRL-DOWN, CTRL-LEFT, CTRL-RIGHT to move the map in small increments until the coordinates match.

                                Oh, that's an interesting idea.  Ok, I'll try that.   James, could you update the Wiki to include this technique.

                                > If it is a location that isn't on a map (such as a farmhouse), I switch to MapQuest Aerial maps

                                I'm a bit confused here.  Do you switch to these maps from within APRSIS32?  Or do you use these externally in a web browser?

                                Tony


                              • Fred Hillhouse
                                I should also add that the links are often changed at the server end. So while today the link might work, tomorrow it may not. Best regards, Fred, N7FMH _____
                                Message 15 of 29 , Feb 11, 2013
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                                  I should also add that the links are often changed at the server end. So while today the link might work, tomorrow it may not.
                                   
                                  Best regards,
                                  Fred, N7FMH
                                   


                                  From: aprsisce@yahoogroups.com [mailto:aprsisce@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Fred Hillhouse
                                  Sent: Monday, February 11, 2013 10:26
                                  To: aprsisce@yahoogroups.com
                                  Subject: RE: [aprsisce] Re: Questions on creating an object

                                   

                                  I have found a couple of bad links on the WIKI and have fixed them. If you have trouble with a tile set, please list it here. I would be happy to fix it.
                                   
                                  The AEROMAP.US (aeronautical charts) has become a dead-end so it is know longer in the WIKI.
                                  And I found one of the ArcGIS links to be incorrect so it has been fixed.
                                   
                                  Thanks!
                                  Fred, N7FMH
                                   


                                  From: aprsisce@yahoogroups.com [mailto:aprsisce@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Mark Petiford
                                  Sent: Sunday, February 10, 2013 15:33
                                  To: aprsisce@yahoogroups.com
                                  Subject: Re: [aprsisce] Re: Questions on creating an object

                                   

                                  APRISCE/APRSIS32 can use a number of different maps (map tiles), and you can switch from one to the other on the fly.  Take a look at:

                                  http://aprsisce.wikidot.com/tile-sets

                                  I find that each tile set has its own strong and weak points, and the ability to switch on the fly is really nice.

                                  I am probably the the wrong person to be tutoring on the subject of using different tiles.  I find that I can get some of the ones listed to work, and others won't.

                                  Mark
                                  KE6BB


                                  From: Tony VE6MVP <tony@...>
                                  To: aprsisce@yahoogroups.com
                                  Sent: Sunday, February 10, 2013 12:17 PM
                                  Subject: Re: [aprsisce] Re: Questions on creating an object

                                   
                                  At 11:01 AM 2013-02-10, KE6BB wrote:

                                  I did the same thing the first time I tried it, but then that is why I tried it in a no-pressure situation first.

                                  Exactly.  I figured I'd muck with this long before I ever needed it.

                                  >Since my hands are old and shaky, and I am usually using a laptop with a touch pad,

                                  I *CAN"T* stand the frigging touch pad.  I always have a mouse with me.

                                  >I find it easiest to drag the map to the general coordinates I am interested in, and then switch to the cursor keys: UP/DOWN keys to zoom in and out, and CTRL-UP, CTRL-DOWN, CTRL-LEFT, CTRL-RIGHT to move the map in small increments until the coordinates match.

                                  Oh, that's an interesting idea.  Ok, I'll try that.   James, could you update the Wiki to include this technique.

                                  > If it is a location that isn't on a map (such as a farmhouse), I switch to MapQuest Aerial maps

                                  I'm a bit confused here.  Do you switch to these maps from within APRSIS32?  Or do you use these externally in a web browser?

                                  Tony


                                • KE6BB
                                  ... No, Fred. Our thanks to you!!! We really appreciate your snooping these things out. Sorry to see the aero maps go. Was one of my favorite play toys.
                                  Message 16 of 29 , Feb 11, 2013
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                                    Re:
                                    > Thanks!
                                    > Fred, N7FMH
                                    >

                                    No, Fred. Our thanks to you!!! We really appreciate your "snooping" these things out. Sorry to see the aero maps go. Was one of my favorite play toys.

                                    Mark
                                    KE6BB
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