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Re: [aprsisce] Fixed iGate moving

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  • Lynn W Deffenbaugh (Mr)
    Question: Is W9NGC located at 41 5.60N 85 10.55W or somewhere within EN71jb? You re transmitting the following pair of packets:
    Message 1 of 6 , Feb 7, 2013
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      Question:  Is W9NGC located at 41 5.60N 85 10.55W or somewhere within EN71jb?  You're transmitting the following pair of packets:

      W9NGC>APWW10,TCPIP*,qAC,T2MIDWEST:;146.88-FW*072107z4105.60N/08510.55WrPHG8600/146.880MHz T0ff -060 ACARTS
      W9NGC>APWW10,TCPIP*,qAC,T2MIDWEST:>EN71jb/I APRSISCE/32

      Depending on the APRS client, they may process one, the other, or both locations as they are received.  Earlier (and possibly the version that  you're watching with) versions of APRSISCE/32 processed both resulting in the station bouncing between two points, one accurate, and one at the center of the grid square.

      The newest (possibly only the development) release of APRSISCE/32 now retains only the most accurate location received and no longer moves the station.

      As for what UI-View does when faced with this pair of packets, I'll leave to someone that knows UI-View to answer.

      It's best to only transmit ONE location.  I suggest unchecking Configure / Status Report / GridSquare and just leave your location be fixed at the lat/lon-based posit packet.  From http://aprsisce.wikidot.com/menu:configure-status-report

      GridSquare - If checked, the current GridSquare will be included in the Status Report. Use this with caution if you are also transmitting position beacons as the position resolution between the GridSquare and Lat/Lon coordinates is significantly different, possibly resulting in a station that ping-pongs between two locations depending on which packet was heard most recently.

      Lynn (D) - KJ4ERJ - Author of APRSISCE for Windows Mobile and Win32


      On 2/7/2013 3:05 PM, E.J. Caylor wrote:
      All,
         I currently have a fixed iGate (W9NGC) running APRSIS32, build 2012/08/30.  This instance also controls my weather station (W9NGC-13) and QRU server (QRUW9NGC) with the same coordinates.  Over the past month or so, I have observed at my home iGate running UIView (KC9HIY) that W9NGC appears to jump around its specified location, within about a 1 mile radius.  I have also noticed on occasion that the distance and heading window on APRSIS32 opens showing a change in distance (last seen, 0.61mi @ 169 degrees).  I have not observed this hopping with the weather station or QRU server object.

      I've gone back through the trace on both the APRS-IS port and my TNC port, and have not seen any packets with corrupted GPS information.  I have also verified this on packets received over the air at KC9HIY. The station doesn't seem move on aprs.fi either.

      Does anyone have an idea why this may be happening?  I'll admit that I may not be brightest bulb on the tree, but I just can't seem to pin down why this is occurring, and why it only occurs to W9NGC.  Do I have a setting wrong?

      -----

      While writing this email, I observed the icon jump again on my UI-View screen at KC9HIY.  The packet received at that time from W9NGC was the status beacon, which I have set to transmit every 15 minutes. So, knowing this, is there a setting I'm missing to fix it, other than disabling the status beacon? I'd like to leave it on, since I transmit received DX with it.

      Thanks,
      E.J.

    • E.J. Caylor
      Lynn, The first packet you listed is the frequency object for a local repeater that I am sourcing at W9NGC. The coordinates are its location. I ll turn off the
      Message 2 of 6 , Feb 7, 2013
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        Lynn,

        The first packet you listed is the frequency object for a local repeater that I am sourcing at W9NGC. The coordinates are its location.

        I'll turn off the grid square option for status and see if that solves it.

        Thanks, E.J.

        On Feb 7, 2013 4:48 PM, "Lynn W Deffenbaugh (Mr)" <kj4erj@...> wrote:


        Question:  Is W9NGC located at 41 5.60N 85 10.55W or somewhere within EN71jb?  You're transmitting the following pair of packets:

        W9NGC>APWW10,TCPIP*,qAC,T2MIDWEST:;146.88-FW*072107z4105.60N/08510.55WrPHG8600/146.880MHz T0ff -060 ACARTS
        W9NGC>APWW10,TCPIP*,qAC,T2MIDWEST:>EN71jb/I APRSISCE/32

        Depending on the APRS client, they may process one, the other, or both locations as they are received.  Earlier (and possibly the version that  you're watching with) versions of APRSISCE/32 processed both resulting in the station bouncing between two points, one accurate, and one at the center of the grid square.

        The newest (possibly only the development) release of APRSISCE/32 now retains only the most accurate location received and no longer moves the station.

        As for what UI-View does when faced with this pair of packets, I'll leave to someone that knows UI-View to answer.

        It's best to only transmit ONE location.  I suggest unchecking Configure / Status Report / GridSquare and just leave your location be fixed at the lat/lon-based posit packet.  From http://aprsisce.wikidot.com/menu:configure-status-report

        GridSquare - If checked, the current GridSquare will be included in the Status Report. Use this with caution if you are also transmitting position beacons as the position resolution between the GridSquare and Lat/Lon coordinates is significantly different, possibly resulting in a station that ping-pongs between two locations depending on which packet was heard most recently.

        Lynn (D) - KJ4ERJ - Author of APRSISCE for Windows Mobile and Win32


        On 2/7/2013 3:05 PM, E.J. Caylor wrote:
        All,
           I currently have a fixed iGate (W9NGC) running APRSIS32, build 2012/08/30.  This instance also controls my weather station (W9NGC-13) and QRU server (QRUW9NGC) with the same coordinates.  Over the past month or so, I have observed at my home iGate running UIView (KC9HIY) that W9NGC appears to jump around its specified location, within about a 1 mile radius.  I have also noticed on occasion that the distance and heading window on APRSIS32 opens showing a change in distance (last seen, 0.61mi @ 169 degrees).  I have not observed this hopping with the weather station or QRU server object.

        I've gone back through the trace on both the APRS-IS port and my TNC port, and have not seen any packets with corrupted GPS information.  I have also verified this on packets received over the air at KC9HIY. The station doesn't seem move on aprs.fi either.

        Does anyone have an idea why this may be happening?  I'll admit that I may not be brightest bulb on the tree, but I just can't seem to pin down why this is occurring, and why it only occurs to W9NGC.  Do I have a setting wrong?

        -----

        While writing this email, I observed the icon jump again on my UI-View screen at KC9HIY.  The packet received at that time from W9NGC was the status beacon, which I have set to transmit every 15 minutes. So, knowing this, is there a setting I'm missing to fix it, other than disabling the status beacon? I'd like to leave it on, since I transmit received DX with it.

        Thanks,
        E.J.



      • Lynn W Deffenbaugh (Mr)
        You are correct, I didn t look at it closely enough. Here s the two packets that would be providing conflicting location resolution for your station:
        Message 3 of 6 , Feb 7, 2013
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          You are correct, I didn't look at it closely enough.  Here's the two packets that would be providing conflicting location resolution for your station:

          W9NGC>APWW10,TCPIP*,qAC,T2MIDWEST:@210713h4104.09N/08513.34WIPHG3100/iGate, Fort Wayne, IN NGFARS
          W9NGC>APWW10,TCPIP*,qAC,T2MIDWEST:>EN71jb/I APRSISCE/32

          But I think you got the concept down anyway.

          Lynn (D) - KJ4ERJ - Author of APRSISCE for Windows Mobile and Win32

          On 2/7/2013 9:47 PM, E.J. Caylor wrote:

          Lynn,

          The first packet you listed is the frequency object for a local repeater that I am sourcing at W9NGC. The coordinates are its location.

          I'll turn off the grid square option for status and see if that solves it.

          Thanks, E.J.

          On Feb 7, 2013 4:48 PM, "Lynn W Deffenbaugh (Mr)" <kj4erj@...> wrote:


          Question:  Is W9NGC located at 41 5.60N 85 10.55W or somewhere within EN71jb?  You're transmitting the following pair of packets:

          W9NGC>APWW10,TCPIP*,qAC,T2MIDWEST:;146.88-FW*072107z4105.60N/08510.55WrPHG8600/146.880MHzT0ff -060 ACARTS
          W9NGC>APWW10,TCPIP*,qAC,T2MIDWEST:>EN71jb/I APRSISCE/32

          Depending on the APRS client, they may process one, the other, or both locations as they are received.  Earlier (and possibly the version that  you're watching with) versions of APRSISCE/32 processed both resulting in the station bouncing between two points, one accurate, and one at the center of the grid square.

          The newest (possibly only the development) release of APRSISCE/32 now retains only the most accurate location received and no longer moves the station.

          As for what UI-View does when faced with this pair of packets, I'll leave to someone that knows UI-View to answer.

          It's best to only transmit ONE location.  I suggest unchecking Configure / Status Report / GridSquare and just leave your location be fixed at the lat/lon-based posit packet.  From http://aprsisce.wikidot.com/menu:configure-status-report

          GridSquare - If checked, the current GridSquare will be included in the Status Report. Use this with caution if you are also transmitting position beacons as the position resolution between the GridSquare and Lat/Lon coordinates is significantly different, possibly resulting in a station that ping-pongs between two locations depending on which packet was heard most recently.

          Lynn (D) - KJ4ERJ - Author of APRSISCE for Windows Mobile and Win32


          On 2/7/2013 3:05 PM, E.J. Caylor wrote:
          All,
             I currently have a fixed iGate (W9NGC) running APRSIS32, build 2012/08/30.  This instance also controls my weather station (W9NGC-13) and QRU server (QRUW9NGC) with the same coordinates.  Over the past month or so, I have observed at my home iGate running UIView (KC9HIY) that W9NGC appears to jump around its specified location, within about a 1 mile radius.  I have also noticed on occasion that the distance and heading window on APRSIS32 opens showing a change in distance (last seen, 0.61mi @ 169 degrees).  I have not observed this hopping with the weather station or QRU server object.

          I've gone back through the trace on both the APRS-IS port and my TNC port, and have not seen any packets with corrupted GPS information.  I have also verified this on packets received over the air at KC9HIY. The station doesn't seem move on aprs.fi either.

          Does anyone have an idea why this may be happening?  I'll admit that I may not be brightest bulb on the tree, but I just can't seem to pin down why this is occurring, and why it only occurs to W9NGC.  Do I have a setting wrong?

          -----

          While writing this email, I observed the icon jump again on my UI-View screen at KC9HIY.  The packet received at that time from W9NGC was the status beacon, which I have set to transmit every 15 minutes. So, knowing this, is there a setting I'm missing to fix it, other than disabling the status beacon? I'd like to leave it on, since I transmit received DX with it.

          Thanks,
          E.J.




        • Lynn W Deffenbaugh (Mr)
          BTW, this is very similar to the sometimes reported problem of a station that displays at different locations in different APRS clients due to transmitting
          Message 4 of 6 , Feb 7, 2013
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            BTW, this is very similar to the sometimes reported "problem" of a station that displays at different locations in different APRS clients due to transmitting purposely ambiguous location information.  In such an instance, APRS clients are free to display such stations somewhere within their range of ambiguity and different viewers may choose different locations even between different packets from a static station (random positioning within the ambiguous area).

            Lynn (D) - KJ4ERJ - Author of APRSISCE for Windows Mobile and Win32

            On 2/7/2013 10:05 PM, Lynn W Deffenbaugh (Mr) wrote:
            You are correct, I didn't look at it closely enough.  Here's the two packets that would be providing conflicting location resolution for your station:

            W9NGC>APWW10,TCPIP*,qAC,T2MIDWEST:@210713h4104.09N/08513.34WIPHG3100/iGate, Fort Wayne, IN NGFARS
            W9NGC>APWW10,TCPIP*,qAC,T2MIDWEST:>EN71jb/I APRSISCE/32

            But I think you got the concept down anyway.

            Lynn (D) - KJ4ERJ - Author of APRSISCE for Windows Mobile and Win32

            On 2/7/2013 9:47 PM, E.J. Caylor wrote:

            Lynn,

            The first packet you listed is the frequency object for a local repeater that I am sourcing at W9NGC. The coordinates are its location.

            I'll turn off the grid square option for status and see if that solves it.

            Thanks, E.J.

            On Feb 7, 2013 4:48 PM, "Lynn W Deffenbaugh (Mr)" <kj4erj@...> wrote:


            Question:  Is W9NGC located at 41 5.60N 85 10.55W or somewhere within EN71jb?  You're transmitting the following pair of packets:

            W9NGC>APWW10,TCPIP*,qAC,T2MIDWEST:;146.88-FW*072107z4105.60N/08510.55WrPHG8600/146.880MHzT0ff -060 ACARTS
            W9NGC>APWW10,TCPIP*,qAC,T2MIDWEST:>EN71jb/I APRSISCE/32

            Depending on the APRS client, they may process one, the other, or both locations as they are received.  Earlier (and possibly the version that  you're watching with) versions of APRSISCE/32 processed both resulting in the station bouncing between two points, one accurate, and one at the center of the grid square.

            The newest (possibly only the development) release of APRSISCE/32 now retains only the most accurate location received and no longer moves the station.

            As for what UI-View does when faced with this pair of packets, I'll leave to someone that knows UI-View to answer.

            It's best to only transmit ONE location.  I suggest unchecking Configure / Status Report / GridSquare and just leave your location be fixed at the lat/lon-based posit packet.  From http://aprsisce.wikidot.com/menu:configure-status-report

            GridSquare - If checked, the current GridSquare will be included in the Status Report. Use this with caution if you are also transmitting position beacons as the position resolution between the GridSquare and Lat/Lon coordinates is significantly different, possibly resulting in a station that ping-pongs between two locations depending on which packet was heard most recently.

            Lynn (D) - KJ4ERJ - Author of APRSISCE for Windows Mobile and Win32


            On 2/7/2013 3:05 PM, E.J. Caylor wrote:
            All,
               I currently have a fixed iGate (W9NGC) running APRSIS32, build 2012/08/30.  This instance also controls my weather station (W9NGC-13) and QRU server (QRUW9NGC) with the same coordinates.  Over the past month or so, I have observed at my home iGate running UIView (KC9HIY) that W9NGC appears to jump around its specified location, within about a 1 mile radius.  I have also noticed on occasion that the distance and heading window on APRSIS32 opens showing a change in distance (last seen, 0.61mi @ 169 degrees).  I have not observed this hopping with the weather station or QRU server object.

            I've gone back through the trace on both the APRS-IS port and my TNC port, and have not seen any packets with corrupted GPS information.  I have also verified this on packets received over the air at KC9HIY. The station doesn't seem move on aprs.fi either.

            Does anyone have an idea why this may be happening?  I'll admit that I may not be brightest bulb on the tree, but I just can't seem to pin down why this is occurring, and why it only occurs to W9NGC.  Do I have a setting wrong?

            -----

            While writing this email, I observed the icon jump again on my UI-View screen at KC9HIY.  The packet received at that time from W9NGC was the status beacon, which I have set to transmit every 15 minutes. So, knowing this, is there a setting I'm missing to fix it, other than disabling the status beacon? I'd like to leave it on, since I transmit received DX with it.

            Thanks,
            E.J.





          • Keith VE7GDH
            Lynn KJ4ERJ wrote... ... If someone is beaconing two positions, UI-View will show the most recently heard position. There is a setting that specifies whether
            Message 5 of 6 , Feb 8, 2013
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              Lynn KJ4ERJ wrote...

              > As for what UI-View does when faced with this pair of
              > packets, I'll leave to someone that knows UI-View to answer.

              If someone is beaconing two positions, UI-View will show
              the most recently heard position. There is a setting that specifies
              whether grid squares are plotted at the centre of the grid square
              or at a random position within the grid square.

              73 es cul - Keith VE7GDH
              www.ui-view.org
              --
              "I may be lost, but I know exactly where I am!"
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