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Configuring KPC3+ with APRSISCE/32

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  • Don Rolph
    As usual, moving environments is always exciting. My next configuration in the EMA office uses a Kantronics KPC3+. I checked and it seems to be in KISS mode,
    Message 1 of 11 , Jan 21, 2013
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      As usual, moving environments is always exciting.

      My next configuration in the EMA office uses a Kantronics KPC3+. I checked and it seems to be in KISS mode, however, that can be changed.

      I can not find a KPC3+ TNC port configuration.

      I do see an AGW port configuration, but it is unclear how to connect it to the AGWPE driver.

      Thoughts?

      Thanks in advance!

      73,
      AB1PH
      Don Rolph
    • Adam Mahnke
      The trick I ve found with Kantronics TNC s is to lock them into KISS mode, and get them to stay that was across a power reset. Here is the message string from
      Message 2 of 11 , Jan 21, 2013
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        The trick I've found with Kantronics TNC's is to lock them into KISS mode, and get them to stay that was across a power reset.

        Here is the message string from when I was trying to get a 9612 to stay in KISS mode

        http://groups.yahoo.com/group/aprsisce/message/8883

        Once the TNC stays in KISS mode, the KISS configuration for APRSIS32 works great.


        Adam
        KC2ANT


        To: aprsisce@yahoogroups.com
        From: don.rolph@...
        Date: Mon, 21 Jan 2013 15:35:32 +0000
        Subject: [aprsisce] Configuring KPC3+ with APRSISCE/32

         
        As usual, moving environments is always exciting.

        My next configuration in the EMA office uses a Kantronics KPC3+. I checked and it seems to be in KISS mode, however, that can be changed.

        I can not find a KPC3+ TNC port configuration.

        I do see an AGW port configuration, but it is unclear how to connect it to the AGWPE driver.

        Thoughts?

        Thanks in advance!

        73,
        AB1PH
        Don Rolph


      • Lynn W Deffenbaugh (Mr)
        See aprsisce.wikidot.com/tnc-kpc-3 AGW is not necessary unless you ve got a need to share access to the KPC-3+ with other programs. Lynn (D) - KJ4ERJ - Author
        Message 3 of 11 , Jan 21, 2013
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          See aprsisce.wikidot.com/tnc-kpc-3

          AGW is not necessary unless you've got a need to share access to the
          KPC-3+ with other programs.

          Lynn (D) - KJ4ERJ - Author of APRSISCE for Windows Mobile and Win32

          On 1/21/2013 10:35 AM, Don Rolph wrote:
          > As usual, moving environments is always exciting.
          >
          > My next configuration in the EMA office uses a Kantronics KPC3+. I checked and it seems to be in KISS mode, however, that can be changed.
          >
          > I can not find a KPC3+ TNC port configuration.
          >
          > I do see an AGW port configuration, but it is unclear how to connect it to the AGWPE driver.
          >
          > Thoughts?
          >
          > Thanks in advance!
          >
          > 73,
          > AB1PH
          > Don Rolph
          >
          >
          >
          > ------------------------------------
          >
          > Yahoo! Groups Links
          >
          >
          >
          >
        • Lynn W Deffenbaugh (Mr)
          ... That d be Simply(KISS), otherwise the KISS-mode s will take the KPC-3+ out of KISS mode until the next power cycle. Lynn (D) - KJ4ERJ - Author of
          Message 4 of 11 , Jan 21, 2013
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            On 1/21/2013 10:45 AM, Adam Mahnke wrote:
            Once the TNC stays in KISS mode, the KISS configuration for APRSIS32 works great.

            That'd be Simply(KISS), otherwise the KISS-mode <CloseCmd>s will take the KPC-3+ out of KISS mode until the next power cycle.

            Lynn (D) - KJ4ERJ - Author of APRSISCE for Windows Mobile and Win32
          • Adam Mahnke
            Thanks for the correction, I set it up so long ago I forgot that part. Adam KC2ANT ... From: Lynn W Deffenbaugh (Mr) Sent: 21 Jan 2013 15:54:29 GMT To:
            Message 5 of 11 , Jan 21, 2013
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              Thanks for the correction, I set it up so long ago I forgot that part.

              Adam
              KC2ANT

              -----Original Message-----

              From: Lynn W Deffenbaugh (Mr)
              Sent: 21 Jan 2013 15:54:29 GMT
              To: aprsisce@yahoogroups.com
              Subject: Re: [aprsisce] Configuring KPC3+ with APRSISCE/32

               

              On 1/21/2013 10:45 AM, Adam Mahnke wrote:
              Once the TNC stays in KISS mode, the KISS configuration for APRSIS32 works great.

              That'd be Simply(KISS), otherwise the KISS-mode <CloseCmd>s will take the KPC-3+ out of KISS mode until the next power cycle.

              Lynn (D) - KJ4ERJ - Author of APRSISCE for Windows Mobile and Win32

            • Don Rolph
              Ok answered my own question. Used the TNC KPC-3+ notes to modify config file, works fine now. Sent from my iPhone
              Message 6 of 11 , Jan 21, 2013
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                Ok answered my own question.  Used the TNC KPC-3+ notes to modify config file, works fine now.

                Sent from my iPhone

                On Jan 21, 2013, at 10:35 AM, "Don Rolph" <don.rolph@...> wrote:

                 

                As usual, moving environments is always exciting.

                My next configuration in the EMA office uses a Kantronics KPC3+. I checked and it seems to be in KISS mode, however, that can be changed.

                I can not find a KPC3+ TNC port configuration.

                I do see an AGW port configuration, but it is unclear how to connect it to the AGWPE driver.

                Thoughts?

                Thanks in advance!

                73,
                AB1PH
                Don Rolph

              • James Ewen
                ... Just watch for the accumulated delay issue with a KPC-3 running in KISS mode. You won t see the issue on your own station, but if you suddenly start gating
                Message 7 of 11 , Jan 21, 2013
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                  On Mon, Jan 21, 2013 at 9:14 AM, Don Rolph <don.rolph@...> wrote:

                  > Ok answered my own question. Used the TNC KPC-3+ notes to modify config
                  > file, works fine now.

                  Just watch for the accumulated delay issue with a KPC-3 running in KISS mode.

                  You won't see the issue on your own station, but if you suddenly start
                  gating a lot more packets than usual, that's probably due to your
                  i-gate delaying packets and injecting them after the anti-dupe filters
                  have expired. Other stations will notice zig-zag patterns on their
                  tracks, or flagged raw packets on aprs.fi. The zig-zag is hard to find
                  on aprs.fi since Hessu does a bunch of filtering to try and hide the
                  issues caused by delayed packets.

                  --
                  James
                  VE6SRV
                • Don Rolph
                  What causes the delayed packets?? From: aprsisce@yahoogroups.com [mailto:aprsisce@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of James Ewen Sent: Monday, January 21, 2013 11:26
                  Message 8 of 11 , Jan 21, 2013
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                    What causes the delayed packets??

                     

                    From: aprsisce@yahoogroups.com [mailto:aprsisce@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of James Ewen
                    Sent: Monday, January 21, 2013 11:26 AM
                    To: aprsisce@yahoogroups.com
                    Subject: Re: [aprsisce] Configuring KPC3+ with APRSISCE/32

                     

                     

                    On Mon, Jan 21, 2013 at 9:14 AM, Don Rolph don.rolph@...> wrote:

                    > Ok answered my own question. Used the TNC KPC-3+ notes to modify config
                    > file, works fine now.

                    Just watch for the accumulated delay issue with a KPC-3 running in KISS mode.

                    You won't see the issue on your own station, but if you suddenly start
                    gating a lot more packets than usual, that's probably due to your
                    i-gate delaying packets and injecting them after the anti-dupe filters
                    have expired. Other stations will notice zig-zag patterns on their
                    tracks, or flagged raw packets on aprs.fi. The zig-zag is hard to find
                    on aprs.fi since Hessu does a bunch of filtering to try and hide the
                    issues caused by delayed packets.

                    --
                    James
                    VE6SRV

                  • James Ewen
                    We don t have access to the source code or development environment to be able to determine the cause. It s just a known issue. ... -- Sent from my mobile
                    Message 9 of 11 , Jan 21, 2013
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                      We don't have access to the source code or development environment to
                      be able to determine the cause.

                      It's just a known issue.



                      On 1/21/13, Don Rolph <don.rolph@...> wrote:
                      > What causes the delayed packets??
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      > From: aprsisce@yahoogroups.com [mailto:aprsisce@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf
                      > Of James Ewen
                      > Sent: Monday, January 21, 2013 11:26 AM
                      > To: aprsisce@yahoogroups.com
                      > Subject: Re: [aprsisce] Configuring KPC3+ with APRSISCE/32
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      > On Mon, Jan 21, 2013 at 9:14 AM, Don Rolph don.rolph@...
                      > <mailto:don.rolph%40gmail.com> > wrote:
                      >
                      >> Ok answered my own question. Used the TNC KPC-3+ notes to modify config
                      >> file, works fine now.
                      >
                      > Just watch for the accumulated delay issue with a KPC-3 running in KISS
                      > mode.
                      >
                      > You won't see the issue on your own station, but if you suddenly start
                      > gating a lot more packets than usual, that's probably due to your
                      > i-gate delaying packets and injecting them after the anti-dupe filters
                      > have expired. Other stations will notice zig-zag patterns on their
                      > tracks, or flagged raw packets on aprs.fi. The zig-zag is hard to find
                      > on aprs.fi since Hessu does a bunch of filtering to try and hide the
                      > issues caused by delayed packets.
                      >
                      > --
                      > James
                      > VE6SRV
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >

                      --
                      Sent from my mobile device

                      James
                      VE6SRV
                    • Lynn W Deffenbaugh (Mr)
                      See http://blog.aprs.fi/2011/03/kantronics-kpc3-considered-harmful.html for about the best description. Make sure you check out the videos that show the
                      Message 10 of 11 , Jan 21, 2013
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                        See http://blog.aprs.fi/2011/03/kantronics-kpc3-considered-harmful.html for about the best description.  Make sure you check out the videos that show the reproduction and proof of the issue.

                        It is only known to affect KPC-3+ (the plus version) and only when running in KISS mode for an extended period of time where the time is shorter in areas of heavier traffic.  Personally, my money is on a circular buffer pointer race condition in the firmware whereby the head and tail pointers vs some counter is getting steadily out of sync causing received packets to sit in the buffer until a new packet "bumps" it out.  When the race condition is met, another packet ends up in the buffer, slowing increasing the delays until they become noticeable by exceeding the 30 second APRS-IS dupe detect window.

                        I plan to incorporate a "reset timer" in the upcoming port support of APRSISCE/32 that will automatically execute a port's <Close/OpenCmd>s on a timed basis.  It has been shown that simply dropping the KPC-3+ out of KISS mode and putting it back into KISS mode will eliminate the delays.  A power cycle on a KPC-3+ that comes up in KISS mode will, of course, also clear the buffering/delay issue.

                        Lynn (D) - KJ4ERJ - Author of APRSISCE for Windows Mobile and Win32

                        On 1/21/2013 1:33 PM, Don Rolph wrote:

                        What causes the delayed packets??

                         

                        From: aprsisce@yahoogroups.com [mailto:aprsisce@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of James Ewen
                        Sent: Monday, January 21, 2013 11:26 AM
                        To: aprsisce@yahoogroups.com
                        Subject: Re: [aprsisce] Configuring KPC3+ with APRSISCE/32

                         

                         

                        On Mon, Jan 21, 2013 at 9:14 AM, Don Rolph don.rolph@...> wrote:

                        > Ok answered my own question. Used the TNC KPC-3+ notes to modify config
                        > file, works fine now.

                        Just watch for the accumulated delay issue with a KPC-3 running in KISS mode.

                        You won't see the issue on your own station, but if you suddenly start
                        gating a lot more packets than usual, that's probably due to your
                        i-gate delaying packets and injecting them after the anti-dupe filters
                        have expired. Other stations will notice zig-zag patterns on their
                        tracks, or flagged raw packets on aprs.fi. The zig-zag is hard to find
                        on aprs.fi since Hessu does a bunch of filtering to try and hide the
                        issues caused by delayed packets.

                        --
                        James
                        VE6SRV


                      • Don Rolph
                        Lynn, Thanks for the info. I find myself using KPC3+ TNCs for server and TNC-X TNCs for clients. Thanks for the warning here! From: aprsisce@yahoogroups.com
                        Message 11 of 11 , Jan 21, 2013
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                          Lynn,

                           

                          Thanks for the info.

                           

                          I find myself using KPC3+ TNCs for server and TNC-X TNCs for clients.  Thanks for the warning here!

                           

                          From: aprsisce@yahoogroups.com [mailto:aprsisce@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Lynn W Deffenbaugh (Mr)
                          Sent: Monday, January 21, 2013 1:47 PM
                          To: aprsisce@yahoogroups.com
                          Subject: Re: [aprsisce] Configuring KPC3+ with APRSISCE/32

                           

                           

                          See http://blog.aprs.fi/2011/03/kantronics-kpc3-considered-harmful.html for about the best description.  Make sure you check out the videos that show the reproduction and proof of the issue.

                          It is only known to affect KPC-3+ (the plus version) and only when running in KISS mode for an extended period of time where the time is shorter in areas of heavier traffic.  Personally, my money is on a circular buffer pointer race condition in the firmware whereby the head and tail pointers vs some counter is getting steadily out of sync causing received packets to sit in the buffer until a new packet "bumps" it out.  When the race condition is met, another packet ends up in the buffer, slowing increasing the delays until they become noticeable by exceeding the 30 second APRS-IS dupe detect window.

                          I plan to incorporate a "reset timer" in the upcoming port support of APRSISCE/32 that will automatically execute a port's <Close/OpenCmd>s on a timed basis.  It has been shown that simply dropping the KPC-3+ out of KISS mode and putting it back into KISS mode will eliminate the delays.  A power cycle on a KPC-3+ that comes up in KISS mode will, of course, also clear the buffering/delay issue.

                          Lynn (D) - KJ4ERJ - Author of APRSISCE for Windows Mobile and Win32

                          On 1/21/2013 1:33 PM, Don Rolph wrote:

                          What causes the delayed packets??

                           

                          From: aprsisce@yahoogroups.com [mailto:aprsisce@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of James Ewen
                          Sent: Monday, January 21, 2013 11:26 AM
                          To: aprsisce@yahoogroups.com
                          Subject: Re: [aprsisce] Configuring KPC3+ with APRSISCE/32

                           

                           

                          On Mon, Jan 21, 2013 at 9:14 AM, Don Rolph don.rolph@...> wrote:

                          > Ok answered my own question. Used the TNC KPC-3+ notes to modify config
                          > file, works fine now.

                          Just watch for the accumulated delay issue with a KPC-3 running in KISS mode.

                          You won't see the issue on your own station, but if you suddenly start
                          gating a lot more packets than usual, that's probably due to your
                          i-gate delaying packets and injecting them after the anti-dupe filters
                          have expired. Other stations will notice zig-zag patterns on their
                          tracks, or flagged raw packets on aprs.fi. The zig-zag is hard to find
                          on aprs.fi since Hessu does a bunch of filtering to try and hide the
                          issues caused by delayed packets.

                          --
                          James
                          VE6SRV

                           

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