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Re: [aprsisce] UK Ballooning Regs

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  • James Ewen
    On Sat, Dec 8, 2012 at 4:16 PM, Steve Daniels ... Well, this reflector is for support of APRSISCE/32, and the wiki is for describing the functions and
    Message 1 of 23 , Dec 8, 2012
      On Sat, Dec 8, 2012 at 4:16 PM, Steve Daniels
      <steve@...> wrote:

      > I got asked by an American APRS hardware manufacturer to clarify UK regs
      > as they were getting requests for hardware for balloons but conflicting info
      > on what was and was not legal.
      >
      > I hope to add a ballooning page to the wiki, which I hope James will
      > contribute to, is it worth me adding UK info to it, or doing a post here, or
      > none of that

      Well, this reflector is for support of APRSISCE/32, and the wiki is
      for describing the functions and operations of APRSISCE/32. Balloon
      specifics as far as hardware and regulations are concerned really
      aren't germane to this reflector, nor the wiki. We can of course add
      information about using APRSISCE/32 for chasing and recovering
      balloons.

      Specifics about UK regulations should probably end up in a more
      generic information repository. The main APRS wiki has a page for
      ballooning. A subpage off of that page which details the UK
      regulations would be a good place for the information. A hotlink from
      the ARHAB page linking to the APRSISCE/32 specific balloon tracking
      page would tie things together. A link from the APRSISCE/32 balloon
      tracking page to the ARHAB page would get people to the right
      information.

      http://info.aprs.net/index.php?title=ARHAB

      Trying to replicate every bit of information available in every wiki
      on the internet in every other wiki is a lot of replicated work.

      Generic information about general subjects belongs in the main wiki,
      and then specific information about APRSISCE/32 belongs in the
      APRSISCE/32 wiki.

      --
      James
      VE6SRV
    • Bob Burns W9RXR
      ... A man with two non-identical clocks really doesn t know what time it is. Either or both of his clocks could be wrong. Same goes for information on the
      Message 2 of 23 , Dec 8, 2012
        At 09:03 PM 12/8/2012, James Ewen wrote:

        >Trying to replicate every bit of information available in every wiki
        >on the internet in every other wiki is a lot of replicated work.

        A man with two non-identical clocks really doesn't know what time it
        is. Either or both of his clocks could be wrong.

        Same goes for information on the Internet. Unfortunately, the more
        times it's duplicated, the greater chance of somebody being wrong or
        out of date.

        We've discussed in the past that this group should focus on
        APRSISCE/32, how to use it, and how it can be used within the large
        sphere of APRS. I have the same opinion of the APRSISCE/32 Wiki.
        Let's keep it focused on how to use the program.

        Bob...
      • James Ewen
        On Sat, Dec 8, 2012 at 4:16 PM, Steve Daniels ... Added more information to the APRS Wiki ARHAB page. I created a section that contains information about the
        Message 3 of 23 , Dec 9, 2012
          On Sat, Dec 8, 2012 at 4:16 PM, Steve Daniels
          <steve@...> wrote:

          > I hope to add a ballooning page to the wiki, which I hope James will
          > contribute to, is it worth me adding UK info to it, or doing a post here, or
          > none of that

          Added more information to the APRS Wiki ARHAB page. I created a
          section that contains information about the USA (just information that
          was already on the page since US amateurs think the world revolves
          around them), added information about Canadian regulations, and also a
          section for UK regulations.

          Steve, if you can add more information, such as a pull quote from the
          UK regulations where it says you can not use amateur radio airborne,
          that would be good.

          I also added in places for more information about viewing ARHAB
          flights on websites like aprs.fi, db0anf.de, OpenAprs.net. There are
          also sections for using programs like APRSISCE/32, with a brief
          description, and a link back to the APRSISCE/32 wiki page dedicated to
          ARHAB observation and tracking.

          --
          James
          VE6SRV
        • Steve Daniels
          Will do James, I will quote things as our regulator has a habit of moving documents, and links get broken. I misread your reply to my earlier message and
          Message 4 of 23 , Dec 9, 2012

            Will do James, I will quote things as our regulator has a habit of moving documents, and links get broken.

            I misread your reply to my earlier message and thought you were saying not to do anything rather than not to post to the group

             

            Steve Daniels

            Amateur Radio Callsign G6UIM

            Torbay Freecycle  Owner

            http://uk.groups.yahoo.com/group/torbay_freecycle

            APRSISCE/32 Beta tester and WIKI editor http://aprsisce.wikidot.com

             


            From: aprsisce@yahoogroups.com [mailto: aprsisce@yahoogroups.com ] On Behalf Of James Ewen
            Sent: 09 December 2012 21:30
            To: aprsisce@yahoogroups.com
            Subject: Re: [aprsisce] UK Ballooning Regs

             

             

            On Sat, Dec 8, 2012 at 4:16 PM, Steve Daniels
            <steve@...> wrote:

            > I hope to add a ballooning page to the wiki, which I hope James will
            > contribute to, is it worth me adding
            w:st="on">UK info to it, or doing a post here, or
            > none of that

            Added more information to the APRS Wiki ARHAB page. I created a
            section that contains information about the USA (just information that
            was already on the page since US amateurs think the world revolves
            around them), added information about Canadian regulations, and also a
            section for UK regulations.

            Steve, if you can add more information, such as a pull quote from the
            UK regulations where it says you can not use amateur radio airborne,
            that would be good.

            I also added in places for more information about viewing ARHAB
            flights on websites like aprs.fi, db0anf.de, OpenAprs.net. There are
            also sections for using programs like APRSISCE/32, with a brief
            description, and a link back to the APRSISCE/32 wiki page dedicated to
            ARHAB observation and tracking.

            --
            James
            VE6SRV

          • James Ewen
            On Sun, Dec 9, 2012 at 2:41 PM, Steve Daniels ... There are only 2 lines in the CARs that really affect the size of the balloon, which I quoted in the Canadian
            Message 5 of 23 , Dec 9, 2012
              On Sun, Dec 9, 2012 at 2:41 PM, Steve Daniels
              <steve@...> wrote:

              > Will do James, I will quote things as our regulator has a habit of moving
              > documents, and links get broken.

              There are only 2 lines in the CARs that really affect the size of the
              balloon, which I quoted in the Canadian section. There's no
              restrictions on the radio portion, so I didn't put anything about that
              in the wiki.

              I just put in a generic placeholder of information about the UK.
              Specific quoted sections to back it up would be good.

              > I misread your reply to my earlier message and thought you were saying not
              > to do anything rather than not to post to the group

              Actually what I said was that the APRSISCE/32 wiki was probably not
              the best place for the information. The main APRS wiki seems like a
              better location for the information. Why would anyone looking for
              generic ARHAB information head to the APRSISCE/32 wiki?

              Just trying to keep from reinventing the wheel.

              We need to get Keith to add information to the main wiki about using
              UI-View for chasing balloons...

              --
              James
              VE6SRV
            • Randy Love
              Ok. I maybe I m being dense, or blind, or both, but I can t seem to find any of the pages that James has mentioned. Google was not good to me and I usually can
              Message 6 of 23 , Dec 9, 2012
                Ok. 
                I maybe I'm being dense, or blind, or both, but I can't seem to find any of the pages that James has mentioned. Google was not good to me and I usually can find all sorts of obscure stuff using it. I did find the EN_Ballooning page on aprsisce32.wikidot.com, but not the link to the ARHAB stuff at the other APRS Wiki.

                James, could you post links, please?

                Thanks,
                Randy
                WF5X

              • Colin XSD
                Hi Steve, Don t forget there is nothing stopping the General Public from using the UHF ISM/LPD frequencies within the rules some of which happen to be in our
                Message 7 of 23 , Dec 9, 2012
                  Hi Steve,

                  Don't forget there is nothing stopping the 'General Public' from using the UHF ISM/LPD frequencies within the rules some of which happen to be in our 70cm band (on for instance 433.800MHz which happens to be our UHF APRS frequency).


                  73,
                  Colin
                  M0XSD.

                  On 09/12/2012 21:41, Steve Daniels wrote:
                   

                  Will do James, I will quote things as our regulator has a habit of moving documents, and links get broken.

                  I misread your reply to my earlier message and thought you were saying not to do anything rather than not to post to the group

                   

                  Steve Daniels

                  Amateur Radio Callsign G6UIM

                  Torbay Freecycle  Owner

                  http://uk.groups.yahoo.com/group/torbay_freecycle

                  APRSISCE/32 Beta tester and WIKI editor http://aprsisce.wikidot.com

                   


                  From: aprsisce@yahoogroups.com [mailto:aprsisce@yahoogroups.com ] On Behalf Of James Ewen
                  Sent: 09 December 2012 21:30
                  To: aprsisce@yahoogroups.com
                  Subject: Re: [aprsisce] UK Ballooning Regs

                   

                   

                  On Sat, Dec 8, 2012 at 4:16 PM, Steve Daniels
                  <steve@...> wrote:

                  > I hope to add a ballooning page to the wiki, which I hope James will
                  > contribute to, is it worth me adding UK info to it, or doing a post here, or
                  > none of that

                  Added more information to the APRS Wiki ARHAB page. I created a
                  section that contains information about the USA (just information that
                  was already on the page since US amateurs think the world revolves
                  around them), added information about Canadian regulations, and also a
                  section for UK regulations.

                  Steve, if you can add more information, such as a pull quote from the
                  UK regulations where it says you can not use amateur radio airborne,
                  that would be good.

                  I also added in places for more information about viewing ARHAB
                  flights on websites like aprs.fi, db0anf.de, OpenAprs.net. There are
                  also sections for using programs like APRSISCE/32, with a brief
                  description, and a link back to the APRSISCE/32 wiki page dedicated to
                  ARHAB observation and tracking.

                  --
                  James
                  VE6SRV


                • James Ewen
                  ... Sure, here it is again. ... -- James VE6SRV
                  Message 8 of 23 , Dec 9, 2012
                    On Sun, Dec 9, 2012 at 2:53 PM, Randy Love <rlove31@...> wrote:

                    > I maybe I'm being dense, or blind, or both, but I can't seem to find any
                    > of the pages that James has mentioned. Google was not good to me and I
                    > usually can find all sorts of obscure stuff using it. I did find the
                    > EN_Ballooning page on aprsisce32.wikidot.com, but not the link to the ARHAB
                    > stuff at the other APRS Wiki.
                    >
                    > James, could you post links, please?

                    Sure, here it is again.

                    On Sat, Dec 8, 2012 at 7:03 PM, James Ewen <ve6srv@...> wrote:
                    > The main APRS wiki has a page for
                    > ballooning. A subpage off of that page which details the UK
                    > regulations would be a good place for the information. A hotlink from
                    > the ARHAB page linking to the APRSISCE/32 specific balloon tracking
                    > page would tie things together. A link from the APRSISCE/32 balloon
                    > tracking page to the ARHAB page would get people to the right
                    > information.
                    >
                    > http://info.aprs.net/index.php?title=ARHAB


                    --
                    James
                    VE6SRV
                  • Steve Daniels
                    I know Colin, have all the regs to hand both those that prohibit and also those that allow you to put a tracker on a Balloon. Not sure 433.800 would be a good
                    Message 9 of 23 , Dec 9, 2012

                      I know Colin, have all the regs to hand both those that prohibit and also those that allow you to put a tracker on a Balloon. Not sure 433.800 would be a good idea to use, you really don’t want an in use frequency

                       

                      Steve Daniels

                      Amateur Radio Callsign G6UIM

                      Torbay Freecycle  Owner

                      http://uk.groups.yahoo.com/group/torbay_freecycle

                      APRSISCE/32 Beta tester and WIKI editor http://aprsisce.wikidot.com

                       


                      From: aprsisce@yahoogroups.com [mailto: aprsisce@yahoogroups.com ] On Behalf Of Colin XSD
                      Sent: 09 December 2012 21:59
                      To: aprsisce@yahoogroups.com
                      Subject: Re: [aprsisce] UK Ballooning Regs

                       

                       

                      Hi Steve,

                      Don't forget there is nothing stopping the 'General Public' from using the UHF ISM/LPD frequencies within the rules some of which happen to be in our 70cm band (on for instance 433.800MHz which happens to be our UHF APRS frequency).


                      73,
                      Colin
                      M0XSD.

                      On 09/12/2012 21:41, Steve Daniels wrote:

                       

                      Will do James, I will quote things as our regulator has a habit of moving documents, and links get broken.

                      I misread your reply to my earlier message and thought you were saying not to do anything rather than not to post to the group

                       

                      Steve Daniels

                      Amateur Radio Callsign G6UIM

                      Torbay Freecycle  Owner

                      http://uk.groups.yahoo.com/group/torbay_freecycle

                      APRSISCE/32 Beta tester and WIKI editor http://aprsisce.wikidot.com

                       


                      From: aprsisce@yahoogroups.com [mailto:aprsisce@yahoogroups.com ] On Behalf Of James Ewen
                      Sent: 09 December 2012 21:30
                      To: aprsisce@yahoogroups.com
                      Subject: Re: [aprsisce] UK Ballooning Regs

                       

                       

                      On Sat, Dec 8, 2012 at 4:16 PM, Steve Daniels
                      <steve@...> wrote:

                      > I hope to add a ballooning page to the wiki, which I hope James will
                      > contribute to, is it worth me adding UK info to it, or doing a post here, or
                      > none of that

                      Added more information to the APRS Wiki ARHAB page. I created a
                      section that contains information about the USA (just information that
                      was already on the page since US amateurs think the world revolves
                      around them), added information about Canadian regulations, and also a
                      section for UK regulations.

                      Steve, if you can add more information, such as a pull quote from the
                      UK regulations where it says you can not use amateur radio airborne,
                      that would be good.

                      I also added in places for more information about viewing ARHAB
                      flights on websites like aprs.fi, db0anf.de, OpenAprs.net. There are
                      also sections for using programs like APRSISCE/32, with a brief
                      description, and a link back to the APRSISCE/32 wiki page dedicated to
                      ARHAB observation and tracking.

                      --
                      James
                      VE6SRV

                       

                    • Randy Love
                      Blind it was. Tnx.
                      Message 10 of 23 , Dec 9, 2012
                        Blind it was.
                        Tnx.

                        On Sun, Dec 9, 2012 at 5:01 PM, James Ewen <ve6srv@...> wrote:
                         

                        On Sun, Dec 9, 2012 at 2:53 PM, Randy Love <rlove31@...> wrote:

                        > I maybe I'm being dense, or blind, or both, but I can't seem to find any
                        > of the pages that James has mentioned. Google was not good to me and I
                        > usually can find all sorts of obscure stuff using it. I did find the
                        > EN_Ballooning page on aprsisce32.wikidot.com, but not the link to the ARHAB
                        > stuff at the other APRS Wiki.
                        >
                        > James, could you post links, please?

                        Sure, here it is again.


                        On Sat, Dec 8, 2012 at 7:03 PM, James Ewen <ve6srv@...> wrote:
                        > The main APRS wiki has a page for
                        > ballooning. A subpage off of that page which details the UK
                        > regulations would be a good place for the information. A hotlink from
                        > the ARHAB page linking to the APRSISCE/32 specific balloon tracking
                        > page would tie things together. A link from the APRSISCE/32 balloon
                        > tracking page to the ARHAB page would get people to the right
                        > information.
                        >
                        > http://info.aprs.net/index.php?title=ARHAB

                        --
                        James
                        VE6SRV


                      • James Ewen
                        ... Being one to always want to stretch the rules, this is interesting to me. What limitations are there for use of the ISM/LPD frequencies? Foremost is
                        Message 11 of 23 , Dec 9, 2012
                          On Sun, Dec 9, 2012 at 2:58 PM, Colin XSD <m0xsd@...> wrote:

                          > Don't forget there is nothing stopping the 'General Public' from using the
                          > UHF ISM/LPD frequencies within the rules some of which happen to be in our
                          > 70cm band (on for instance 433.800MHz which happens to be our UHF APRS
                          > frequency).

                          Being one to always want to stretch the rules, this is interesting to me.

                          What limitations are there for use of the ISM/LPD frequencies?
                          Foremost is probably power limitations...

                          Can you use FM modulation? Can you use a protocol such as APRS? Is
                          there a specification for identification?

                          FRS frequencies here in North America require no callsigns, but I can
                          call myself "Big Bubba" if I want. I could also use a random
                          collection of letters and numbers as well... maybe a random collection
                          like "VE6SRV". There would be nothing illegal about that. Obviously
                          the FRS frequencies don't overlap the amateur band, but I'm currently
                          just talking about identifying a station when identification is not
                          necessary.

                          If you can legally operate on 433.800 MHz as part of the general
                          public, and happen to use a protocol that others are using on that
                          frequency (APRS), and use a random callsign, what can they do?

                          How would OFCOM prove that you were operating as a licensed amateur
                          rather than a member of the general public?

                          Use a tactical callsign, and if you want put your amateur callsign in
                          the comment.

                          The problem over here would be if amateurs tried to communicate with
                          the non-licensed station. We are prohibited from doing so. However,
                          the unlicensed station transmitting on 433.800 would not be attempting
                          to communicate with amateurs, but rather transmitting in the blind.
                          Amateur radio stations on the ground would just happen to hear and
                          i-gate packets from the airborne unlicensed station. Reception is not
                          a crime.

                          --
                          James
                          VE6SRV
                        • Colin XSD
                          I am by no means an expert on the subject but I think about the only limit is the 10mW ERP Power.
                          Message 12 of 23 , Dec 9, 2012
                            I am by no means an expert on the subject but I think about the only limit is the 10mW ERP Power.


                            On 09/12/2012 22:14, James Ewen wrote:
                             

                            On Sun, Dec 9, 2012 at 2:58 PM, Colin XSD <m0xsd@...> wrote:

                            > Don't forget there is nothing stopping the 'General Public' from using the
                            > UHF ISM/LPD frequencies within the rules some of which happen to be in our
                            > 70cm band (on for instance 433.800MHz which happens to be our UHF APRS
                            > frequency).

                            Being one to always want to stretch the rules, this is interesting to me.

                            What limitations are there for use of the ISM/LPD frequencies?
                            Foremost is probably power limitations...

                            Can you use FM modulation? Can you use a protocol such as APRS? Is
                            there a specification for identification?

                            FRS frequencies here in North America require no callsigns, but I can
                            call myself "Big Bubba" if I want. I could also use a random
                            collection of letters and numbers as well... maybe a random collection
                            like "VE6SRV". There would be nothing illegal about that. Obviously
                            the FRS frequencies don't overlap the amateur band, but I'm currently
                            just talking about identifying a station when identification is not
                            necessary.

                            If you can legally operate on 433.800 MHz as part of the general
                            public, and happen to use a protocol that others are using on that
                            frequency (APRS), and use a random callsign, what can they do?

                            How would OFCOM prove that you were operating as a licensed amateur
                            rather than a member of the general public?

                            Use a tactical callsign, and if you want put your amateur callsign in
                            the comment.

                            The problem over here would be if amateurs tried to communicate with
                            the non-licensed station. We are prohibited from doing so. However,
                            the unlicensed station transmitting on 433.800 would not be attempting
                            to communicate with amateurs, but rather transmitting in the blind.
                            Amateur radio stations on the ground would just happen to hear and
                            i-gate packets from the airborne unlicensed station. Reception is not
                            a crime.

                            --
                            James
                            VE6SRV


                          • Steve Daniels
                            Anyone can use the frequency band 433.050 to 434.790 MHz. with an ERP of 10mW. It needs to be a type approved transmitter meeting EN 300 220. Any modulation
                            Message 13 of 23 , Dec 9, 2012

                              Anyone can use the frequency band 433.050 to 434.790 MHz. with an ERP of 10mW. It needs to be a type approved transmitter meeting  EN 300 220.

                              Any modulation and even encryption (used for car key fobs etc) can be used, Radiometrix NTX2 are the transmitter module of choice for ballooning

                               

                              So if you ran an igate on 433.800MHz and a non amateur used APRS on that Frequency, from an RF point of view there is no issue. And not much you can do other than go to the trouble of a civil action, of non amateur use of APRS, pretty sure that would be a waste of time.

                               

                              The relevant UK regs for Amateurs are as follows

                              1(2) The Licensee may use or permit the use of the Radio Equipment by a member of a

                              User Service during any operation conducted by a User Service or during any exercise

                              Relating to such an operation in each case for the purpose of sending Messages on behalf of

                              The User Service.

                              1(3) The Licensee may use the Radio Equipment to assist with communications in times of

                              Disaster or national or international emergency

                               

                              9(3) without prejudice to Clause 1 of this Licence, the Licensee shall not establish or use

                              The Radio Equipment in any Aircraft or other Airborne Vehicle.

                               

                              I can use any radio frequency in an emergency (that being officer down etc), and anyone can use my radio on the amateur bands in similar circumstance

                               

                              Clause 1 overrides clause 9 so the chance is that if you can persuade one of the User Services to agree to an exercise you might be able to do a high power amateur launch. Coastguard for SAR for example

                              Steve Daniels

                              Amateur Radio Callsign G6UIM

                              Torbay Freecycle  Owner

                              http://uk.groups.yahoo.com/group/torbay_freecycle

                              APRSISCE/32 Beta tester and WIKI editor http://aprsisce.wikidot.com

                               


                              From: aprsisce@yahoogroups.com [mailto: aprsisce@yahoogroups.com ] On Behalf Of James Ewen
                              Sent: 09 December 2012 22:15
                              To: aprsisce@yahoogroups.com
                              Subject: Re: [aprsisce] UK Ballooning Regs

                               

                               

                              On Sun, Dec 9, 2012 at 2:58 PM, Colin XSD <m0xsd@...> wrote:

                              > Don't forget there is nothing stopping the 'General Public' from using the
                              > UHF ISM/LPD frequencies within the rules some of which happen to be in our
                              > 70cm band (on for instance 433.800MHz which happens to be our UHF APRS
                              > frequency).

                              Being one to always want to stretch the rules, this is interesting to me.

                              What limitations are there for use of the ISM/LPD frequencies?
                              Foremost is probably power limitations...

                              Can you use FM modulation? Can you use a protocol such as APRS? Is
                              there a specification for identification?

                              FRS frequencies here in North America require no callsigns, but I can
                              call myself "Big Bubba" if I want. I could also use a random
                              collection of letters and numbers as well... maybe a random collection
                              like "VE6SRV". There would be nothing illegal about that. Obviously
                              the FRS frequencies don't overlap the amateur band, but I'm currently
                              just talking about identifying a station when identification is not
                              necessary.

                              If you can legally operate on 433.800 MHz as part of the general
                              public, and happen to use a protocol that others are using on that
                              frequency (APRS), and use a random callsign, what can they do?

                              How would OFCOM prove that you were operating as a licensed amateur
                              rather than a member of the general public?

                              Use a tactical callsign, and if you want put your amateur callsign in
                              the comment.

                              The problem over here would be if amateurs tried to communicate with
                              the non-licensed station. We are prohibited from doing so. However,
                              the unlicensed station transmitting on 433.800 would not be attempting
                              to communicate with amateurs, but rather transmitting in the blind.
                              Amateur radio stations on the ground would just happen to hear and
                              i-gate packets from the airborne unlicensed station. Reception is not
                              a crime.

                              --
                              James
                              VE6SRV

                            • Colin XSD
                              ... That is the point I was trying to make Steve. But didn t have enough knowledge to say as much. On a similar but related note: Is it possible to take
                              Message 14 of 23 , Dec 10, 2012
                                On 09/12/2012 23:50, Steve Daniels wrote:

                                So if you ran an igate on 433.800MHz and a non amateur used APRS on that Frequency, from an RF point of view there is no issue. And not much you can do other than go to the trouble of a civil action, of non amateur use of APRS, pretty sure that would be a waste of time.

                                 

                                That is the point I was trying to make Steve. But didn't have enough knowledge to say as much.

                                On a similar but related note:

                                Is it possible to take received packets from a non-amateur system (possibly a balloon on a non-standard APRS frequency) and automatically convert them into APRS Objects?

                                If so I may also have a Terrestrial use for such a system, I would mostly want to just show the objects on my APRSIS32 system and occasionally pass them to APRS-IS and possibly back out to RF (only for short periods of time, like 1 Hour/Day max).



                                73,
                                Colin
                                M0XSD.
                              • Lynn W Deffenbaugh (Mr)
                                ... The main APRS-IS is primarily for Amateur-generated traffic only. Firenet was developed for the express purpose that you re describing, but you need to use
                                Message 15 of 23 , Dec 10, 2012
                                  On 12/10/2012 3:22 AM, Colin XSD wrote:
                                  Is it possible to take received packets from a non-amateur system (possibly a balloon on a non-standard APRS frequency) and automatically convert them into APRS Objects?

                                  If so I may also have a Terrestrial use for such a system, I would mostly want to just show the objects on my APRSIS32 system and occasionally pass them to APRS-IS and possibly back out to RF (only for short periods of time, like 1 Hour/Day max).

                                  The main APRS-IS is primarily for Amateur-generated traffic only.  Firenet was developed for the express purpose that you're describing, but you need to use the firenet-local port (10155), not the normal filtered (14580) port.

                                  If anyone has a link to that policy, I'd like to put it on file somewhere...

                                  Lynn (D) - KJ4ERJ - Author of APRSISCE for Windows Mobile and Win32

                                • Colin XSD
                                  Thanks Lynn, I will see what I can find out about using Firenet as a solution since I don t particularly want to polute APRS-IS with my objects ( I will email
                                  Message 16 of 23 , Dec 10, 2012
                                    Thanks Lynn,

                                    I will see what I can find out about using Firenet as a solution since I don't particularly want to polute APRS-IS with my objects ( I will email you off-list about my actual requirement since it is not specific to APRSISCE/32 as such).


                                    73,
                                    Colin
                                    M0XSD.

                                    On 10/12/2012 12:04, Lynn W Deffenbaugh (Mr) wrote:
                                     

                                    On 12/10/2012 3:22 AM, Colin XSD wrote:
                                    Is it possible to take received packets from a non-amateur system (possibly a balloon on a non-standard APRS frequency) and automatically convert them into APRS Objects?

                                    If so I may also have a Terrestrial use for such a system, I would mostly want to just show the objects on my APRSIS32 system and occasionally pass them to APRS-IS and possibly back out to RF (only for short periods of time, like 1 Hour/Day max).

                                    The main APRS-IS is primarily for Amateur-generated traffic only.  Firenet was developed for the express purpose that you're describing, but you need to use the firenet-local port (10155), not the normal filtered (14580) port.

                                    If anyone has a link to that policy, I'd like to put it on file somewhere...

                                    Lynn (D) - KJ4ERJ - Author of APRSISCE for Windows Mobile and Win32


                                  • James Ewen
                                    ... Canadian regulations prohibit retransmission of transmissions from another service. The rule was written so that people don t automatically repeat audio
                                    Message 17 of 23 , Dec 10, 2012
                                      On Mon, Dec 10, 2012 at 1:22 AM, Colin XSD <m0xsd@...> wrote:

                                      > Is it possible to take received packets from a non-amateur system
                                      > (possibly a balloon on a non-standard APRS frequency) and automatically
                                      > convert them into APRS Objects?

                                      Canadian regulations prohibit retransmission of transmissions from
                                      another service. The rule was written so that people don't
                                      automatically repeat audio from another service into the amateur band.

                                      Listening to packets from another service and resending them on APRS
                                      "could" be seen as a similar issue, *OR* one could argue that they
                                      were transmitting the packets on behalf of a third party...

                                      Similar precedents are already in place... NWS weather warnings,
                                      earthquakes, etc are a somewhat similar situation.

                                      Steve had talked about tracking a lifeboat in a similar fashion as
                                      well, which was less than overwhelmingly supported.

                                      You really would have to look at the concept from all perspectives,
                                      and decide on whether what you are wanting to do is of benefit by
                                      placing the information onto the APRS RF network.

                                      --
                                      James
                                      VE6SRV
                                    • Colin XSD
                                      Thanks James but that is why I was wanting to convert them into Objects (under my direct control). I just trying to find loopholes I can use to my advantage
                                      Message 18 of 23 , Dec 10, 2012
                                        Thanks James but that is why I was wanting to convert them into Objects (under my direct control).
                                        I just trying to find loopholes I can use to my advantage since OFCOM over here don't allow us to use un-attended beacons without humping through all sorts of hoops.
                                        And the use of APRS RF would be an absolute last resort.


                                        73,
                                        Colin
                                        M0XSD.

                                        On 10/12/2012 14:06, James Ewen wrote:
                                         

                                        On Mon, Dec 10, 2012 at 1:22 AM, Colin XSD <m0xsd@...> wrote:

                                        > Is it possible to take received packets from a non-amateur system
                                        > (possibly a balloon on a non-standard APRS frequency) and automatically
                                        > convert them into APRS Objects?

                                        Canadian regulations prohibit retransmission of transmissions from
                                        another service. The rule was written so that people don't
                                        automatically repeat audio from another service into the amateur band.

                                        Listening to packets from another service and resending them on APRS
                                        "could" be seen as a similar issue, *OR* one could argue that they
                                        were transmitting the packets on behalf of a third party...

                                        Similar precedents are already in place... NWS weather warnings,
                                        earthquakes, etc are a somewhat similar situation.

                                        Steve had talked about tracking a lifeboat in a similar fashion as
                                        well, which was less than overwhelmingly supported.

                                        You really would have to look at the concept from all perspectives,
                                        and decide on whether what you are wanting to do is of benefit by
                                        placing the information onto the APRS RF network.

                                        --
                                        James
                                        VE6SRV


                                      • Steve Daniels
                                        Our regulations prohibit retransmission of another service also. Which means if I have a digipeater on 433.800, a license free user could transmit APRS and be
                                        Message 19 of 23 , Dec 10, 2012

                                          Our regulations prohibit retransmission of another service also. Which means if I have a digipeater on 433.800, a license free user could transmit APRS and be doing nothing wrong. I however would be by digipeating them.

                                          Admittedly a person using 10mW ERP would have to be reasonably close by

                                           

                                          Steve Daniels

                                          Amateur Radio Callsign G6UIM

                                          Torbay Freecycle  Owner

                                          http://uk.groups.yahoo.com/group/torbay_freecycle

                                          APRSISCE/32 Beta tester and WIKI editor http://aprsisce.wikidot.com

                                           


                                          From: aprsisce@yahoogroups.com [mailto: aprsisce@yahoogroups.com ] On Behalf Of James Ewen
                                          Sent: 10 December 2012 14:07
                                          To: aprsisce@yahoogroups.com
                                          Subject: Re: [aprsisce] UK Ballooning Regs, Objects to APRS?

                                           

                                           

                                          On Mon, Dec 10, 2012 at 1:22 AM, Colin XSD <m0xsd@...> wrote:

                                          > Is it possible to take received packets from a non-amateur system
                                          > (possibly a balloon on a non-standard APRS frequency) and automatically
                                          > convert them into APRS Objects?

                                          Canadian regulations prohibit retransmission of transmissions from
                                          another service. The rule was written so that people don't
                                          automatically repeat audio from another service into the amateur band.

                                          Listening to packets from another service and resending them on APRS
                                          "could" be seen as a similar issue, *OR* one could argue that they
                                          were transmitting the packets on behalf of a third party...

                                          Similar precedents are already in place... NWS weather warnings,
                                          earthquakes, etc are a somewhat similar situation.

                                          Steve had talked about tracking a lifeboat in a similar fashion as
                                          well, which was less than overwhelmingly supported.

                                          You really would have to look at the concept from all perspectives,
                                          and decide on whether what you are wanting to do is of benefit by
                                          placing the information onto the APRS RF network.

                                          --
                                          James
                                          VE6SRV

                                        • Lynn W Deffenbaugh (Mr)
                                          ... Or airborne and within 100-200 miles if the frequency isn t very busy. Lynn (D) - KJ4ERJ - Author of APRSISCE for Windows Mobile and Win32
                                          Message 20 of 23 , Dec 10, 2012
                                            On 12/10/2012 9:34 AM, Steve Daniels wrote:

                                            Our regulations prohibit retransmission of another service also. Which means if I have a digipeater on 433.800, a license free user could transmit APRS and be doing nothing wrong. I however would be by digipeating them.

                                            Admittedly a person using 10mW ERP would have to be reasonably close by



                                            Or airborne and within 100-200 miles if the frequency isn't very busy.

                                            Lynn (D) - KJ4ERJ - Author of APRSISCE for Windows Mobile and Win32

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