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Re: [aprsisce] Balloon launch in Florida

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  • Lynn W Deffenbaugh (Mr)
    You got my attention, but it was almost too late. I sang at 2 Masses this morning, so I ve been out since 7:30am (it s now 11:30am). I saw Middleton pop up
    Message 1 of 13 , Dec 2, 2012
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      You got my attention, but it was almost too late.  I sang at 2 Masses this morning, so I've been out since 7:30am (it's now 11:30am).  I saw "Middleton" pop up on my D700 on the way home which isn't one of the normal stations I see, so I did copy their packets.  That's not surprising because they were heard from south Miami to Georgia!



      But it looks like my IGate copied quite a few of them direct and the nearby WIDE2 digi, WX4MLB-3, picked up even more.

      Wish I knew it was going to be flying, not that I'd have been able to drop everything to chase it, though.  Based on the aerial map, they had a lucky landing.  Coming in over trees to land at the edge of a field.  They almost needed some climbers.



      Lynn (D) - KJ4ERJ - Author of APRSISCE for Windows Mobile and Win32

      On 12/2/2012 10:14 AM, Steve Daniels wrote:

      Attempting to get Lynn ’s attention, there is a balloon flying in Florida you are gating it or were. KK4LZB-11 currently at 44,767FT

       

      Steve Daniels

      Amateur Radio Callsign G6UIM

      Torbay Freecycle  Owner

      http://http://uk.groups.yahoo.com/group/torbay_freecycle

      APRSISCE/32 Beta tester and WIKI editor http://aprsisce.wikidot.com

       

       


    • Steve Daniels
      I did everything short of phoning you, as I know you are into balloons and not too many launch in Florida. You seem to have gated it quite a bit. Off you go to
      Message 2 of 13 , Dec 2, 2012
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        I did everything short of phoning you, as I know you are into balloons and not too many launch in Florida . You seem to have gated it quite a bit.

        Off you go to find the payload.

        Glad that Keith saw my alert and managed to catch it also.

        I was looking for a different balloon launch and had aprsis in flight mode, first off I assumed it was a plane.

        Looks like some high school students had fun today though, might be fun to contact them.

        You really are going to have to arrange masses around the important things Lynn J

         

        Steve Daniels

        Amateur Radio Callsign G6UIM

        Torbay Freecycle  Owner

        http://http://uk.groups.yahoo.com/group/torbay_freecycle

        APRSISCE/32 Beta tester and WIKI editor http://aprsisce.wikidot.com

         


        From: aprsisce@yahoogroups.com [mailto: aprsisce@yahoogroups.com ] On Behalf Of Lynn W Deffenbaugh (Mr)
        Sent: 02 December 2012 16:34
        To: aprsisce@yahoogroups.com
        Subject: Re: [aprsisce] Balloon launch in Florida

         

        You got my attention, but it was almost too late.  I sang at 2 Masses this morning, so I've been out since 7:30am (it's now 11:30am).  I saw "Middleton" pop up on my D700 on the way home which isn't one of the normal stations I see, so I did copy their packets.  That's not surprising because they were heard from south Miami to Georgia !



        But it looks like my IGate copied quite a few of them direct and the nearby WIDE2 digi, WX4MLB-3, picked up even more.

        Wish I knew it was going to be flying, not that I'd have been able to drop everything to chase it, though.  Based on the aerial map, they had a lucky landing.  Coming in over trees to land at the edge of a field.  They almost needed some climbers.



        Lynn (D) - KJ4ERJ - Author of APRSISCE for Windows Mobile and Win32

        On 12/2/2012 10:14 AM, Steve Daniels wrote:

        Attempting to get Lynn ’s attention, there is a balloon flying in Florida you are gating it or were. KK4LZB-11 currently at 44,767FT

         

        Steve Daniels

        Amateur Radio Callsign G6UIM

        Torbay Freecycle  Owner

        http://http://uk.groups.yahoo.com/group/torbay_freecycle

        APRSISCE/32 Beta tester and WIKI editor http://aprsisce.wikidot.com

         

         

         

      • James Ewen
        Shameful horribly misconfigured outgoing path on that flight... what a mess! Here s another one to watch...
        Message 3 of 13 , Dec 2, 2012
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          Shameful horribly misconfigured outgoing path on that flight... what a mess!


          This payload is an X-ray experiment lofted by our local University Physics department.

          Note the proper high altitude path used by these students. They must have been mentored by a group that understands appropriate APRS etiquette. I'm busy observing and doing ground support on this one. Too chilly and too far to go chase today! 

          Our winds are high up here, so they will be going for a 2.5 to 3 hour drive to pick up the payload.

          We're waiting for better winds aloft for our next flight so we don't have to drive so far.

          James
          VE6SRV

        • Larry Overcast
          I was just looking at the flight path. Pretty interesting. I have a son in grade 11 who has been doing physics. Seems like a very appropriate application.
          Message 4 of 13 , Dec 2, 2012
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            I was just looking at the flight path. Pretty interesting.  I have a son in grade 11 who has been doing physics. Seems like a very appropriate application. What's the approximate cost?  

            Larry Overcast
            Sent from my iPhone

            On Dec 2, 2012, at 9:53 AM, James Ewen <ve6srv@...> wrote:

             

            Shameful horribly misconfigured outgoing path on that flight... what a mess!



            This payload is an X-ray experiment lofted by our local University Physics department.

            Note the proper high altitude path used by these students. They must have been mentored by a group that understands appropriate APRS etiquette. I'm busy observing and doing ground support on this one. Too chilly and too far to go chase today! 

            Our winds are high up here, so they will be going for a 2.5 to 3 hour drive to pick up the payload.

            We're waiting for better winds aloft for our next flight so we don't have to drive so far.

            James
            VE6SRV

          • Larry Overcast
            Looks to be north of Vermillion and traveled about 114 miles so far! Larry Overcast Sent from my iPhone
            Message 5 of 13 , Dec 2, 2012
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              Looks to be north of Vermillion and traveled about 114 miles so far!

              Larry Overcast
              Sent from my iPhone

              On Dec 2, 2012, at 9:53 AM, James Ewen <ve6srv@...> wrote:

               

              Shameful horribly misconfigured outgoing path on that flight... what a mess!



              This payload is an X-ray experiment lofted by our local University Physics department.

              Note the proper high altitude path used by these students. They must have been mentored by a group that understands appropriate APRS etiquette. I'm busy observing and doing ground support on this one. Too chilly and too far to go chase today! 

              Our winds are high up here, so they will be going for a 2.5 to 3 hour drive to pick up the payload.

              We're waiting for better winds aloft for our next flight so we don't have to drive so far.

              James
              VE6SRV

            • Greg D
              Not sure what tracker they re using, but a suggestion? It looks like they peaked out at nearly 101,000 ft. One marker at 100,964, the next at 87,677. How about
              Message 6 of 13 , Dec 2, 2012
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                Not sure what tracker they're using, but a suggestion? 

                It looks like they peaked out at nearly 101,000 ft.  One marker at 100,964, the next at 87,677.  How about implementing a "corner pegging" smart beacon for the vertical dimension?  When there's a significant change in elevation, spit out a beacon?

                Just a thought.

                Greg  KO6TH


                James Ewen wrote:
                 

                Shameful horribly misconfigured outgoing path on that flight... what a mess!



                This payload is an X-ray experiment lofted by our local University Physics department.

                Note the proper high altitude path used by these students. They must have been mentored by a group that understands appropriate APRS etiquette. I'm busy observing and doing ground support on this one. Too chilly and too far to go chase today! 

                Our winds are high up here, so they will be going for a 2.5 to 3 hour drive to pick up the payload.

                We're waiting for better winds aloft for our next flight so we don't have to drive so far.

                James
                VE6SRV

              • James Ewen
                ... That all depends upon how much junk you have accrued... Balloons are under $100. Helium will cost you a couple hundred these days. Hydrogen is less than a
                Message 7 of 13 , Dec 2, 2012
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                  On Sun, Dec 2, 2012 at 1:05 PM, Larry Overcast <larryovercast@...> wrote:

                  > I was just looking at the flight path. Pretty interesting. I have a son in
                  > grade 11 who has been doing physics. Seems like a very appropriate application.
                  > What's the approximate cost?

                  That all depends upon how much junk you have accrued...

                  Balloons are under $100.
                  Helium will cost you a couple hundred these days. Hydrogen is less
                  than a hundred.
                  Trackers for the payload can be pretty cheap if you have lots of spare
                  parts. We started with a scavenged SCADA radio and a MIM tracker. We
                  now fly the RTrak-HAB as it is a nice integrated unit that's very
                  light weight.

                  What you want to fly for a payload is up to you. When we started, we
                  wanted to fly a camera, but the costs were prohibitive. Now we fly HD
                  video cameras... yup, plural cameras because the costs are down
                  significantly.

                  There are some that say they can put a full payload into the air for
                  less than $100, but that's not truly accurate. If I got everything
                  donated or scavenged for a flight, I could claim to be flying for
                  free.

                  By the time you're done, you'll be out a few hundred dollars. Of
                  course, when you recover your payload, you can reuse it, so your costs
                  for the next flight go down. Balloon and lift gas end up being the
                  continual expense.

                  If you are interested in getting involved, there's probably already a
                  balloon group near you. That's a good way to get into it as you can
                  learn from their experience rather than from your own mistakes.
                  Mistakes cost money, so why not learn from the money others have
                  spent?

                  We work to get schools interested. The junior high science curriculum
                  fits right into HAB projects, so if you can find a school teacher
                  interested, you might combine interests and get the kids involved.

                  Our local university puts on a space camp for the grade 7 aged kids
                  each year, and we helped them launch and recover balloons for their
                  camps a few years ago. That morphed into working with the physics
                  department, flying their payloads as a shakedown for future flights
                  with NASA. The students get real hands on experience with nearly every
                  aspect of what they need to know for a flight on a rocket with NASA.
                  Yesterday my son just put in his early admission application to that
                  very same university physics department. Now I'm jealous of my son!

                  We've also worked with 4 different schools getting balloon flights
                  tied into the science program. If we have piqued the interest of just
                  one kid, and that leads to them staying in school and going to
                  university, then I'm extremely happy with the money I have invested
                  into HAB.

                  BTW, VE6SVE-3 and -5 worked well, and the payload was recovered 1.1 km
                  from the last packet location copied by the APRS-IS at an altitude of
                  1096 m ASL, less than 500 metres AGL by a station 52 km away, with no
                  digipeaters involved at all.

                  --
                  James
                  VE6SRV
                • Keehan Dowd
                  It looked like it almost made it to the road. Was it far inside the field? I guess with all the snow on the ground it would be fairly easy to spot? (As
                  Message 8 of 13 , Dec 2, 2012
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                    It looked like it almost made it to the road.  Was it far inside the field? I guess with all the snow on the ground it would be fairly easy to spot? (As opposed to our summer ballon that got all tangled up in the bushes). 

                    Keehan. 

                    Please excuse brevity and typos.  Sent from my iPhone

                    On 2012-12-02, at 2:57 PM, James Ewen <ve6srv@...> wrote:

                     

                    On Sun, Dec 2, 2012 at 1:05 PM, Larry Overcast <larryovercast@...> wrote:

                    > I was just looking at the flight path. Pretty interesting. I have a son in
                    > grade 11 who has been doing physics. Seems like a very appropriate application.
                    > What's the approximate cost?

                    That all depends upon how much junk you have accrued...

                    Balloons are under $100.
                    Helium will cost you a couple hundred these days. Hydrogen is less
                    than a hundred.
                    Trackers for the payload can be pretty cheap if you have lots of spare
                    parts. We started with a scavenged SCADA radio and a MIM tracker. We
                    now fly the RTrak-HAB as it is a nice integrated unit that's very
                    light weight.

                    What you want to fly for a payload is up to you. When we started, we
                    wanted to fly a camera, but the costs were prohibitive. Now we fly HD
                    video cameras... yup, plural cameras because the costs are down
                    significantly.

                    There are some that say they can put a full payload into the air for
                    less than $100, but that's not truly accurate. If I got everything
                    donated or scavenged for a flight, I could claim to be flying for
                    free.

                    By the time you're done, you'll be out a few hundred dollars. Of
                    course, when you recover your payload, you can reuse it, so your costs
                    for the next flight go down. Balloon and lift gas end up being the
                    continual expense.

                    If you are interested in getting involved, there's probably already a
                    balloon group near you. That's a good way to get into it as you can
                    learn from their experience rather than from your own mistakes.
                    Mistakes cost money, so why not learn from the money others have
                    spent?

                    We work to get schools interested. The junior high science curriculum
                    fits right into HAB projects, so if you can find a school teacher
                    interested, you might combine interests and get the kids involved.

                    Our local university puts on a space camp for the grade 7 aged kids
                    each year, and we helped them launch and recover balloons for their
                    camps a few years ago. That morphed into working with the physics
                    department, flying their payloads as a shakedown for future flights
                    with NASA. The students get real hands on experience with nearly every
                    aspect of what they need to know for a flight on a rocket with NASA.
                    Yesterday my son just put in his early admission application to that
                    very same university physics department. Now I'm jealous of my son!

                    We've also worked with 4 different schools getting balloon flights
                    tied into the science program. If we have piqued the interest of just
                    one kid, and that leads to them staying in school and going to
                    university, then I'm extremely happy with the money I have invested
                    into HAB.

                    BTW, VE6SVE-3 and -5 worked well, and the payload was recovered 1.1 km
                    from the last packet location copied by the APRS-IS at an altitude of
                    1096 m ASL, less than 500 metres AGL by a station 52 km away, with no
                    digipeaters involved at all.

                    --
                    James
                    VE6SRV

                  • James Ewen
                    ... RTrak-HAB. ... It s pretty hard to get a good solid vertical dimension reading. There s a fair amount of jitter . The best way is to continually read your
                    Message 9 of 13 , Dec 2, 2012
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                      On Sun, Dec 2, 2012 at 2:10 PM, Greg D <ko6th.greg@...> wrote:

                      > Not sure what tracker they're using, but a suggestion?

                      RTrak-HAB.

                      > It looks like they peaked out at nearly 101,000 ft. One marker at
                      > 100,964, the next at 87,677. How about implementing a "corner pegging"
                      > smart beacon for the vertical dimension? When there's a significant change
                      > in elevation, spit out a beacon?

                      It's pretty hard to get a good solid vertical dimension reading.
                      There's a fair amount of "jitter". The best way is to continually read
                      your altitude, and if the new altitude reading is greater than the
                      last, save the new value. That way you'll always keep your max
                      altitude reading at hand. Then, once you have significantly dropped
                      altitude, you can send a report with the saved maximum altitude, or
                      you could just constantly report the maximum saved altitude in the
                      comment.

                      We worked with Jason at RPC Electronics to develop the RTrak HAB, but
                      it's still not my ultimate flight payload. I want to have a receiver
                      on board as well as a transmitter. I want to have the functionality of
                      the OT3, with the scripting engine onboard, and the ability to send
                      commands up to the payload.

                      One thing that would be very handy would be to have the payload enable
                      the SQUAWK command once it gets below 1000 metres ASL. Sometimes it
                      can be hard to get a good copy on the packet, but with the SQUAWK
                      command, you get an alternating tone on your TX frequency. This makes
                      it very easy to distinguish the payload transmissions by ear, and you
                      can have the tones on for a user defined period, which would
                      facilitate easy DF triangulation if need be.

                      The payload landed in an area where the trees had just been cleared,
                      about 300 metres south of TWP RD 562 on the 1/2 mile property line
                      between RNG RD 63 and RNG RD 62, right about where the creek goes
                      through.

                      --
                      James
                      VE6SRV
                    • KEITH BOYER
                      what is the call sign of the balloon? Keith
                      Message 10 of 13 , Dec 2, 2012
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                        what is the call sign of the balloon?

                        Keith 


                        On Sun, Dec 2, 2012 at 5:13 PM, James Ewen <ve6srv@...> wrote:
                         

                        On Sun, Dec 2, 2012 at 2:10 PM, Greg D <ko6th.greg@...> wrote:

                        > Not sure what tracker they're using, but a suggestion?

                        RTrak-HAB.

                        > It looks like they peaked out at nearly 101,000 ft. One marker at
                        > 100,964, the next at 87,677. How about implementing a "corner pegging"
                        > smart beacon for the vertical dimension? When there's a significant change
                        > in elevation, spit out a beacon?

                        It's pretty hard to get a good solid vertical dimension reading.
                        There's a fair amount of "jitter". The best way is to continually read
                        your altitude, and if the new altitude reading is greater than the
                        last, save the new value. That way you'll always keep your max
                        altitude reading at hand. Then, once you have significantly dropped
                        altitude, you can send a report with the saved maximum altitude, or
                        you could just constantly report the maximum saved altitude in the
                        comment.

                        We worked with Jason at RPC Electronics to develop the RTrak HAB, but
                        it's still not my ultimate flight payload. I want to have a receiver
                        on board as well as a transmitter. I want to have the functionality of
                        the OT3, with the scripting engine onboard, and the ability to send
                        commands up to the payload.

                        One thing that would be very handy would be to have the payload enable
                        the SQUAWK command once it gets below 1000 metres ASL. Sometimes it
                        can be hard to get a good copy on the packet, but with the SQUAWK
                        command, you get an alternating tone on your TX frequency. This makes
                        it very easy to distinguish the payload transmissions by ear, and you
                        can have the tones on for a user defined period, which would
                        facilitate easy DF triangulation if need be.

                        The payload landed in an area where the trees had just been cleared,
                        about 300 metres south of TWP RD 562 on the 1/2 mile property line
                        between RNG RD 63 and RNG RD 62, right about where the creek goes
                        through.

                        --
                        James
                        VE6SRV






                      • James Ewen
                        ... http://aprs.fi/#!mt=roadmap&z=15&call=a%2FVE6SVE-3%2Ca%2FVE6SVE-5&timerange=86400 The callsigns are still in the link sent previously... balloon payload is
                        Message 11 of 13 , Dec 2, 2012
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                          On Sun, Dec 2, 2012 at 3:37 PM, KEITH BOYER <n4trn12@...> wrote:

                          > what is the call sign of the balloon?

                          http://aprs.fi/#!mt=roadmap&z=15&call=a%2FVE6SVE-3%2Ca%2FVE6SVE-5&timerange=86400

                          The callsigns are still in the link sent previously... balloon payload
                          is probably already back in Edmonton by now.

                          --
                          James
                          VE6SRV
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