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RE: [aprsisce] James & personal jabs (was: Frustration...)

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  • Steve Daniels
    I just posted a response. Email is very impersonal, you don t get the facial feedback etc, so a joke can seem like an attack etc. James spends a lot of time
    Message 1 of 24 , Nov 25, 2012
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      I just posted a response.

      Email is very impersonal, you  don’t get the facial feedback etc, so a joke can seem like an attack etc.

      James spends a lot of time helping people out. More so than he needs to.

       

       

      Steve Daniels

      Amateur Radio Callsign G6UIM

      Torbay Freecycle  Owner

      http://http://uk.groups.yahoo.com/group/torbay_freecycle

      APRSISCE/32 Beta tester and WIKI editor http://aprsisce.wikidot.com

       


      From: aprsisce@yahoogroups.com [mailto: aprsisce@yahoogroups.com ] On Behalf Of Rob Giuliano
      Sent: 26 November 2012 01:46
      To: aprsisce@yahoogroups.com
      Subject: Re: [aprsisce] James & personal jabs (was: Frustration...)

       

       

      One thing to remember about "reading posts and e-mail" is that there is little a writer can do that can't be mis-interpreted by the readers own emotion.  Therefore, the majority of emotion comes from the reader. 

       

      It is better to try and set any emotion aside when reaing the posts as much as possible.

       

      Robert Giuliano
      KB8RCO

       

      ---------------------------------------------

      From: Lynn W Deffenbaugh (Mr) <kj4erj@...>
      To: aprsisce@yahoogroups.com
      Sent: Sunday, November 25, 2012 7:25 AM
      Subject: [aprsisce] James & personal jabs (was: Frustration...)

       

      Jeff,

      As you frequent the group, you'll learn about James (and others of the
      frequent group denizens). He really does answer questions and does an
      extremely good job at it. Sometimes, as you observed, he does come
      across as... I guess it would be condescending. Just read through those
      sections and glean the true nuggets of knowledge that are in his every post.

      And please keep asking questions here. My belief is that for every
      person that asks a question, there's probably ten or more that are
      interested in the answer. And asked questions are the only way we'll
      be able to increase the communal knowledge. And the answer-er cannot
      assume any particular knowledge level of the question-er, so sometimes
      the answer may seem pedantic, belittling, or condescending. That's
      usually just the attempt to bird-shot an unknown level of expertise.
      Many of us assume no prior knowledge and so our answers may be below
      your level of intelligence. It'll improve as we pick up on the
      questioner's level of understanding.

      Again, just ignore the tone and/or personal jabs (like your volley back
      to him...) that occur sometimes and focus on the technical aspects and
      all will go well.

      Lynn (D) - KJ4ERJ - Author of APRSISCE for Windows Mobile and Win32

      On 11/25/2012 12:33 AM, Jeffrey H wrote:
      >> Changing propagation isn't going to change the fact that the packets
      >> will get to the APRS-IS stream via your internet connection faster
      >> than a 1200 baud RF channel...
      > As I said, I had my Internet connection was turned down.
      >
      >> Hoping for
      >> a change there won't make the path used change.
      >>
      >> It is good to know that you've got a good grasp on computers. That
      >> means that you most likely don't think that these things are magic
      >> boxes
      >> Aha, then you're not relying on hope, but rather doing controlled
      >> tests to see if the RF portion was working... Perfect! Random changes
      >> with no idea what variable is causing the changed output can easily
      >> lead to confusion, but controlled tests with defined changes made, and
      >> observations correlated makes it easier to gain understanding of what
      >> is happening, and what variables affect the outcome.
      > http://www.wikihow.com/Stop-Being-a-Condescending-Person
      > James, save the trouble and don't concern yourself with "educating" me any more. I'm not interested in hearing from you.
      >
      > Jeff
      >
      >
      >
      >
      > ------------------------------------
      >
      > Yahoo! Groups Links
      >
      >
      >
      >

    • Colin XSD
      ... Now there is a subject I am sure I could give James some education. 73, Colin M0XSD.
      Message 2 of 24 , Nov 26, 2012
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        On 26/11/2012 01:58, Steve Daniels wrote:
        I for one would buy James a pint if he arrived in the UK
        Now there is a subject I am sure I could give James some education.


        73,
        Colin
        M0XSD.
      • Colin XSD
        I agree Steve, I have had a few run-ins with James myself but I think we are still on speaking terms. The other consideration is the Language barrier, I have
        Message 3 of 24 , Nov 26, 2012
        • 0 Attachment
          I agree Steve, I have had a few run-ins with James myself but I think we are still on speaking terms.

          The other consideration is the Language barrier, I have spoken to Lynn on this subject a few times when we have got it wrong between ourselves. The trouble is that we tend to all speak English but don't take into account whether it is British, American or Canadian (or the many other versions, at least Canadian appears to be closer to British than American).


          73,
          Colin
          M0XSD.

          On 26/11/2012 02:10, Steve Daniels wrote:
           

          I just posted a response.

          Email is very impersonal, you  don’t get the facial feedback etc, so a joke can seem like an attack etc.

          James spends a lot of time helping people out. More so than he needs to.

           

           

          Steve Daniels

          Amateur Radio Callsign G6UIM

          Torbay Freecycle  Owner

          http://http://uk.groups.yahoo.com/group/torbay_freecycle

          APRSISCE/32 Beta tester and WIKI editor http://aprsisce.wikidot.com

           


          From: aprsisce@yahoogroups.com [mailto:aprsisce@yahoogroups.com ] On Behalf Of Rob Giuliano
          Sent: 26 November 2012 01:46
          To: aprsisce@yahoogroups.com
          Subject: Re: [aprsisce] James & personal jabs (was: Frustration...)

           

           

          One thing to remember about "reading posts and e-mail" is that there is little a writer can do that can't be mis-interpreted by the readers own emotion.  Therefore, the majority of emotion comes from the reader. 

           

          It is better to try and set any emotion aside when reaing the posts as much as possible.

           

          Robert Giuliano
          KB8RCO

           

          ---------------------------------------------

          From: Lynn W Deffenbaugh (Mr) <kj4erj@...>
          To: aprsisce@yahoogroups.com
          Sent: Sunday, November 25, 2012 7:25 AM
          Subject: [aprsisce] James & personal jabs (was: Frustration...)

           

          Jeff,

          As you frequent the group, you'll learn about James (and others of the
          frequent group denizens). He really does answer questions and does an
          extremely good job at it. Sometimes, as you observed, he does come
          across as... I guess it would be condescending. Just read through those
          sections and glean the true nuggets of knowledge that are in his every post.

          And please keep asking questions here. My belief is that for every
          person that asks a question, there's probably ten or more that are
          interested in the answer. And asked questions are the only way we'll
          be able to increase the communal knowledge. And the answer-er cannot
          assume any particular knowledge level of the question-er, so sometimes
          the answer may seem pedantic, belittling, or condescending. That's
          usually just the attempt to bird-shot an unknown level of expertise.
          Many of us assume no prior knowledge and so our answers may be below
          your level of intelligence. It'll improve as we pick up on the
          questioner's level of understanding.

          Again, just ignore the tone and/or personal jabs (like your volley back
          to him...) that occur sometimes and focus on the technical aspects and
          all will go well.

          Lynn (D) - KJ4ERJ - Author of APRSISCE for Windows Mobile and Win32

          On 11/25/2012 12:33 AM, Jeffrey H wrote:
          >> Changing propagation isn't going to change the fact that the packets
          >> will get to the APRS-IS stream via your internet connection faster
          >> than a 1200 baud RF channel...
          > As I said, I had my Internet connection was turned down.
          >
          >> Hoping for
          >> a change there won't make the path used change.
          >>
          >> It is good to know that you've got a good grasp on computers. That
          >> means that you most likely don't think that these things are magic
          >> boxes
          >> Aha, then you're not relying on hope, but rather doing controlled
          >> tests to see if the RF portion was working... Perfect! Random changes
          >> with no idea what variable is causing the changed output can easily
          >> lead to confusion, but controlled tests with defined changes made, and
          >> observations correlated makes it easier to gain understanding of what
          >> is happening, and what variables affect the outcome.
          > http://www.wikihow.com/Stop-Being-a-Condescending-Person
          > James, save the trouble and don't concern yourself with "educating" me any more. I'm not interested in hearing from you.
          >
          > Jeff
          >
          >
          >
          >
          > ------------------------------------
          >
          > Yahoo! Groups Links
          >
          >
          >
          >


        • Roger Elmore
          Well, language barriers and the written communication not the same as face-to-face aside, I reread James post and I didn t see it as condescending and was a
          Message 4 of 24 , Nov 26, 2012
          • 0 Attachment

            Well, language barriers and the written communication not the same as face-to-face aside, I reread James’ post and I didn’t see it as condescending and was a little surprised at Jeff’s response.  I figured, like Jeff’s subject line said, he was frustrated.  Setting up a TT4 for the first time can get to you, believe me.  Since Jeff’s knowledgeable with computers I’m sure he can relate to helping someone out with something that’s simple to him because he’s had experience with it, but the person he’s trying to help is mad at the situation and shoots the messenger.  Then again, maybe I’m being condescending… <shrug>

             

            From the raw packets, Looks like Jeff’s got KD0TNH (changed from KD0TNH-10) TXing on RF but with a path of WIDE1-1,WID2-2. 

             

            Jeff:

            Change your path to just WIDE2-2.  Note the spelling.  J

             

            Your status comment is “I-Gate & Fill-In Digi | Kirkwood, MO”, so if you’re running as a Fill-In now, I assume you removed the other two lines in the XML file that concerned WIDE2-N packets?

             

            For your Beacon Comment leave the PHG calculation but use “W1-1, IGate, Kirkwood MO”.  The suggested format for digi beacons is explained here:  http://www.aprs.org/newN/n-n-overlays.txt

             

            Note the 2007 document at that url suggests the symbol to be the “No Digi” green star from the Secondary Symbol Set and an overlay of “1”.  Although it has missing gifs and javascript errors, there is another page  http://www.aprs.org/digi-overlays.html  that “view page source” dates a year later and says a digi that is also an IGate can use an “I” as the overlay, so that’s what I use on mine.

             

            Disable APRS-IS, make sure APRS-RF is OK and send a message to KJ4AJP-1.  Let’s see how it gets here.  J

             

            Question for the group – Hardware digis are normally set to do a local beacon to RF every 10 minutes and a 2-hop every hour.  Is that controllable (or already taken care of in the XML) in APRSIS32?

            --

            Roger  KJ4AJP

             

             

            From: aprsisce@yahoogroups.com [mailto:aprsisce@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Colin XSD
            Sent: Monday, November 26, 2012 5:14 AM
            To: aprsisce@yahoogroups.com
            Subject: Re: [aprsisce] James & personal jabs

             




            I agree Steve, I have had a few run-ins with James myself but I think we are still on speaking terms.

            The other consideration is the Language barrier, I have spoken to Lynn on this subject a few times when we have got it wrong between ourselves. The trouble is that we tend to all speak English but don't take into account whether it is British, American or Canadian (or the many other versions, at least Canadian appears to be closer to British than American).


            73,
            Colin
            M0XSD.

            On 26/11/2012 02:10, Steve Daniels wrote:

             

            I just posted a response.

            Email is very impersonal, you  don’t get the facial feedback etc, so a joke can seem like an attack etc.

            James spends a lot of time helping people out. More so than he needs to.

             

             

            Steve Daniels

            Amateur Radio Callsign G6UIM

            Torbay Freecycle  Owner

            http://http://uk.groups.yahoo.com/group/torbay_freecycle

            APRSISCE/32 Beta tester and WIKI editor http://aprsisce.wikidot.com

             


            From: aprsisce@yahoogroups.com [mailto:aprsisce@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Rob Giuliano
            Sent: 26 November 2012 01:46
            To: aprsisce@yahoogroups.com
            Subject: Re: [aprsisce] James & personal jabs (was: Frustration...)

             

             

            One thing to remember about "reading posts and e-mail" is that there is little a writer can do that can't be mis-interpreted by the readers own emotion.  Therefore, the majority of emotion comes from the reader. 

             

            It is better to try and set any emotion aside when reaing the posts as much as possible.

             

            Robert Giuliano
            KB8RCO

             

            ---------------------------------------------

            From: Lynn W Deffenbaugh (Mr) <kj4erj@...>
            To: aprsisce@yahoogroups.com
            Sent: Sunday, November 25, 2012 7:25 AM
            Subject: [aprsisce] James & personal jabs (was: Frustration...)

             

            Jeff,

            As you frequent the group, you'll learn about James (and others of the
            frequent group denizens). He really does answer questions and does an
            extremely good job at it. Sometimes, as you observed, he does come
            across as... I guess it would be condescending. Just read through those
            sections and glean the true nuggets of knowledge that are in his every post.

            And please keep asking questions here. My belief is that for every
            person that asks a question, there's probably ten or more that are
            interested in the answer. And asked questions are the only way we'll
            be able to increase the communal knowledge. And the answer-er cannot
            assume any particular knowledge level of the question-er, so sometimes
            the answer may seem pedantic, belittling, or condescending. That's
            usually just the attempt to bird-shot an unknown level of expertise.
            Many of us assume no prior knowledge and so our answers may be below
            your level of intelligence. It'll improve as we pick up on the
            questioner's level of understanding.

            Again, just ignore the tone and/or personal jabs (like your volley back
            to him...) that occur sometimes and focus on the technical aspects and
            all will go well.

            Lynn (D) - KJ4ERJ - Author of APRSISCE for Windows Mobile and Win32

            On 11/25/2012 12:33 AM, Jeffrey H wrote:
            >> Changing propagation isn't going to change the fact that the packets
            >> will get to the APRS-IS stream via your internet connection faster
            >> than a 1200 baud RF channel...
            > As I said, I had my Internet connection was turned down.
            >
            >> Hoping for
            >> a change there won't make the path used change.
            >>
            >> It is good to know that you've got a good grasp on computers. That
            >> means that you most likely don't think that these things are magic
            >> boxes
            >> Aha, then you're not relying on hope, but rather doing controlled
            >> tests to see if the RF portion was working... Perfect! Random changes
            >> with no idea what variable is causing the changed output can easily
            >> lead to confusion, but controlled tests with defined changes made, and
            >> observations correlated makes it easier to gain understanding of what
            >> is happening, and what variables affect the outcome.
            > http://www.wikihow.com/Stop-Being-a-Condescending-Person
            > James, save the trouble and don't concern yourself with "educating" me any more. I'm not interested in hearing from you.
            >
            > Jeff
            >
            >
            >
            >
            > ------------------------------------
            >
            > Yahoo! Groups Links
            >
            >
            >
            >





          • Steve Daniels
            You are better placed in the country for educating about beer, having tasted Canadian beer, I would say Canadian s in general need educating but at least they
            Message 5 of 24 , Nov 26, 2012
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              You are better placed in the country for educating about beer, having tasted Canadian beer, I would say Canadian’s in general need educating but at least they know what beer is unlike the AmericansJ

               

              If I came across like I had any issue with James, I don’t, the discussions I have had have been worthwhile ones

               

              Steve Daniels

              Amateur Radio Callsign G6UIM

              Torbay Freecycle  Owner

              http://http://uk.groups.yahoo.com/group/torbay_freecycle

              APRSISCE/32 Beta tester and WIKI editor http://aprsisce.wikidot.com

               


              From: aprsisce@yahoogroups.com [mailto: aprsisce@yahoogroups.com ] On Behalf Of Colin XSD
              Sent: 26 November 2012 11:04
              To: aprsisce@yahoogroups.com
              Subject: Re: [aprsisce] James & personal jabs

               

               

              On 26/11/2012 01:58, Steve Daniels wrote:

              I for one would buy James a pint if he arrived in the UK

              Now there is a subject I am sure I could give James some education.


              73,
              Colin
              M0XSD.

            • Bill Vodall
              ... I ll never forget my visit to the Corn Festival in Southern Alberta (Canada) where I was looking forward to a fine local brew or two. Much to my
              Message 6 of 24 , Nov 26, 2012
              • 0 Attachment
                > You are better placed in the country for educating about beer, having
                > tasted Canadian beer, I would say Canadian’s in general need educating but
                > at least they know what beer is unlike the AmericansJ


                I'll never forget my visit to the "Corn Festival" in Southern Alberta
                (Canada) where I was looking forward to a fine local brew or two.
                Much to my surprise, and dismay, they were proudly serving quality
                imported beers - from the US. Sigh - at least the corn was still
                fantastic.

                Bill
              • Steve Daniels
                Recommended reading in the UK is the CAMRA good pub guide, which rates Pubs on the quality of the beer, also the pub itself and the food. Colin lives close to
                Message 7 of 24 , Nov 26, 2012
                • 0 Attachment
                  Recommended reading in the UK is the CAMRA good pub guide, which rates Pubs
                  on the quality of the beer, also the pub itself and the food.
                  Colin lives close to the major brewers in the country although near me ( a
                  few hundred yards) is a micro brewery, and also a Cider Farm which produes
                  good Scrumpy. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scrumpy

                  To keep on topic next QRU project the Good pub guide APRS edition, and GPX,
                  would probably be nominated for a Knighthood for that

                  Steve Daniels
                  Amateur Radio Callsign G6UIM
                  Torbay Freecycle Owner
                  http://http://uk.groups.yahoo.com/group/torbay_freecycle
                  APRSISCE/32 Beta tester and WIKI editor http://aprsisce.wikidot.com


                  -----Original Message-----
                  From: aprsisce@yahoogroups.com [mailto:aprsisce@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf
                  Of Bill Vodall
                  Sent: 26 November 2012 22:33
                  To: aprsisce@yahoogroups.com
                  Subject: Re: [aprsisce] James & personal jabs

                  > You are better placed in the country for educating about beer, having
                  > tasted Canadian beer, I would say Canadian's in general need educating but
                  > at least they know what beer is unlike the AmericansJ


                  I'll never forget my visit to the "Corn Festival" in Southern Alberta
                  (Canada) where I was looking forward to a fine local brew or two.
                  Much to my surprise, and dismay, they were proudly serving quality
                  imported beers - from the US. Sigh - at least the corn was still
                  fantastic.

                  Bill


                  ------------------------------------

                  Yahoo! Groups Links
                • Roger Elmore
                  OK Jeff. I did not receive the 2012-11-27 03:55:46 UTC message because it was sent to KJ4AJP, my non-message capable weather station. By the same token, the
                  Message 8 of 24 , Nov 27, 2012
                  • 0 Attachment

                    OK Jeff.  I did not receive the 2012-11-27 03:55:46 UTC message because it was sent to KJ4AJP, my non-message capable weather station.  By the same token, the message you sent to W0PC around the same time didn’t make it to him because you used an alpha O rather than the numeric 0 in his call.

                     

                    I did not receive your 2012-11-27 05:58:32 UTC message.  I see this packet:

                     

                    2012-11-27 05:58:32 UTC: KD0TNH>APWW10,N0OTM-15*,WIDE2-1,qAS,KB0WMU:

                     

                    And I see that message in the “Messages of KJ4AJP-1” on aprs.fi

                     

                     

                    Group, I’ll admit to ignorance here.  http://www.aprs-is.net/q.aspx defines qAS being server-to-server.  Since Jeff had APRS-IS disabled, shouldn’t he be seen as a client and the packet qAR’d by the IGate?

                     

                     

                    My message to Jeff had this packet:

                     

                    2012-11-26 20:15:44 UTC: KJ4AJP-1>APU25N,WIDE2-2,qAR,KJ4AJP-5:

                     

                    My message was from a client (not an IGate being used as a client) and was qAR’d by the IGate, and Jeff received the message.  So I’m curious what’s up. 

                     

                    On-Topic because I’ve seen messages on aprs.fi from nearby WB8SKP, who runs an APRSIS32 IGate, that didn’t make it out my IGate to RF to be received by my clients.  I assume these messages originated from his APRSIS32 IGate station (he can confirm or deny, I know he’s subbed to this group). 

                     

                    I figure the KJ4AJP-5 IGate is doing its job, but if you think the issue is with that, I’ll take it to the UI-View group.  However, I’m sending messages back and forth from my KJ4AJP-2 iPod to both the KJ4AJP-1 UI-View and KJ4AJP-12 APRSIS32 clients, and on 11/16/12 after I posted my -1 station info in the TH-D72 group (where we originally met Jeff) another D72 user W0KDE out of the blue messaged -1 with his HT saying it was the first chance he had to test his IGate, so we also did a HT-HT QSO through both our IGates – his appears to be UI-View based also.

                     

                    Any insight?

                    --

                    Roger  KJ4AJP

                     

                     

                    ***************

                    Previously, Roger Elmore wrote:

                    Question for the group – Hardware digis are normally set to do a local beacon to RF every 10 minutes and a 2-hop every hour.  Is that controllable (or already taken care of in the XML) in APRSIS32?

                     

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