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Frustration ensues- Any thoughts? I can't send/receive over RF with TT4

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  • Jeffrey H
    I m using a TinyTrak4 and a Yaesu mobile- 50 watts into a J-Pole in the attic. I m 10 miles from downtown St. Louis. I seemed to receive fine on the RF port
    Message 1 of 24 , Nov 23, 2012
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      I'm using a TinyTrak4 and a Yaesu mobile- 50 watts into a J-Pole in the attic. I'm 10 miles from downtown St. Louis. I seemed to receive fine on the RF port and I could exchange messages with my handheld. However, another member pointed out that no other stations saw me transmitting according to aprs.fi.

      I begin to try fix that.
      I found it odd that I was transmitting and being heard by my handheld but that nobody else could either hear or decode me. So I repeated the Calibrate/Monitor/Rxamp procedures. I also found a posting by Lynn recommending to turn off squelch and set the TT4 for CDLevel=Data.

      Nothing is working for me now and I don't seem to be able to get back to even the partial working state that I was in before. I'm not receiving or transmitting.

      Here are my settings:

      XML File:
      <!--RFPort[0]-->
      <RFPort Name="KISS">
      <Protocol>Simply(KISS)</Protocol>
      <Device>COM1:19200,N,8,1</Device>
      <RfBaud>1200</RfBaud>
      <OpenCmd>~!!0</OpenCmd>
      <CloseCmd>~!!0</CloseCmd>
      <QuietTime>0</QuietTime>
      <Enabled>1</Enabled>
      <XmitEnabled>1</XmitEnabled>
      <ProvidesNMEA>0</ProvidesNMEA>
      <RFtoISEnabled>1</RFtoISEnabled>
      <IStoRFEnabled>1</IStoRFEnabled>
      <MyCallNot3rd>0</MyCallNot3rd>
      <BeaconingEnabled>1</BeaconingEnabled>
      <BeaconPath></BeaconPath>
      <BulletinObjectEnabled>0</BulletinObjectEnabled>
      <DXEnabled>0</DXEnabled>
      <DXPath></DXPath>
      <MessagesEnabled>0</MessagesEnabled>
      <MessagePath></MessagePath>
      <TelemetryEnabled>0</TelemetryEnabled>
      <TelemetryPath></TelemetryPath>
      <!--DigiXform-->
      </RFPort>
      <!--RFPort[0]-->


      Enables Ports All and KISS checked
      Configure Ports Kiss RFBaud is 1200 and Everything is checked but Me not 3rd.


      TinyTrak:
      Callsign: KD0TNH-10
      AMODE KISS 19200 BMODE GPS 4800
      Port A Mode Kiss Baud 19200
      CHECKED- Send decoded packets to serial ports
      CHECKED- Send generated packets to serial ports
      Didn't mess with anything under Position as I don't have GPS attached

      Packet:
      Path Wide1-1 Wide2-1 (blank)
      CD Mode: Tones
      CD Level: 13
      TX Level: 21
      TX Twist: 50
      RX AMP: 13


      Log file shows:
      Port(KISS):2012-11-23T22:23:19.163 KISS:Missing Leading C0[1]:?
      Port(KISS):2012-11-23T22:23:21.535 KISS:Missing Leading C0[47]:<0D 0A>Press ESC 3 times to enter TT4 Options Menu<0D 0A>
    • Lynn W Deffenbaugh (Mr)
      Sounds to me like you mess up the volume on the radio and your TT4 isn t decoding any more. Disable the port in APRSISCE/32 or close the client and go back
      Message 2 of 24 , Nov 23, 2012
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        Sounds to me like you mess up the volume on the radio and your TT4 isn't
        decoding any more. Disable the port in APRSISCE/32 or close the client
        and go back into your terminal emulator. Put the TT4 into TEXT mode and
        see if you're decoding packets. Do the whole RXAMP/Volume tuning thing
        again.

        Once that is complete and you're SURE the TT4 is decoding what it hears,
        put the TT4 back into KISS mode and fire up APRSISCE/32.

        After that, verify that when you click Transmit, the TT4 red light comes
        on and the radio actually transmits. If possible, listen on another
        radio for a burst on 144.390 (or whatever frequency you're using) that
        coincides with your APRSISCE/32 Transmits.

        What is the TT4's MYCALL and what are you running for APRSIS32?

        Lynn (D) - KJ4ERJ - Author of ARPSISCE for Windows Mobile and Win32

        On 11/23/2012 5:31 PM, Jeffrey H wrote:
        > I'm using a TinyTrak4 and a Yaesu mobile- 50 watts into a J-Pole in the attic. I'm 10 miles from downtown St. Louis. I seemed to receive fine on the RF port and I could exchange messages with my handheld. However, another member pointed out that no other stations saw me transmitting according to aprs.fi.
        >
        > I begin to try fix that.
        > I found it odd that I was transmitting and being heard by my handheld but that nobody else could either hear or decode me. So I repeated the Calibrate/Monitor/Rxamp procedures. I also found a posting by Lynn recommending to turn off squelch and set the TT4 for CDLevel=Data.
        >
        > Nothing is working for me now and I don't seem to be able to get back to even the partial working state that I was in before. I'm not receiving or transmitting.
        >
        > Here are my settings:
        >
        > XML File:
        > <!--RFPort[0]-->
        > <RFPort Name="KISS">
        > <Protocol>Simply(KISS)</Protocol>
        > <Device>COM1:19200,N,8,1</Device>
        > <RfBaud>1200</RfBaud>
        > <OpenCmd>~!!0</OpenCmd>
        > <CloseCmd>~!!0</CloseCmd>
        > <QuietTime>0</QuietTime>
        > <Enabled>1</Enabled>
        > <XmitEnabled>1</XmitEnabled>
        > <ProvidesNMEA>0</ProvidesNMEA>
        > <RFtoISEnabled>1</RFtoISEnabled>
        > <IStoRFEnabled>1</IStoRFEnabled>
        > <MyCallNot3rd>0</MyCallNot3rd>
        > <BeaconingEnabled>1</BeaconingEnabled>
        > <BeaconPath></BeaconPath>
        > <BulletinObjectEnabled>0</BulletinObjectEnabled>
        > <DXEnabled>0</DXEnabled>
        > <DXPath></DXPath>
        > <MessagesEnabled>0</MessagesEnabled>
        > <MessagePath></MessagePath>
        > <TelemetryEnabled>0</TelemetryEnabled>
        > <TelemetryPath></TelemetryPath>
        > <!--DigiXform-->
        > </RFPort>
        > <!--RFPort[0]-->
        >
        >
        > Enables Ports All and KISS checked
        > Configure Ports Kiss RFBaud is 1200 and Everything is checked but Me not 3rd.
        >
        >
        > TinyTrak:
        > Callsign: KD0TNH-10
        > AMODE KISS 19200 BMODE GPS 4800
        > Port A Mode Kiss Baud 19200
        > CHECKED- Send decoded packets to serial ports
        > CHECKED- Send generated packets to serial ports
        > Didn't mess with anything under Position as I don't have GPS attached
        >
        > Packet:
        > Path Wide1-1 Wide2-1 (blank)
        > CD Mode: Tones
        > CD Level: 13
        > TX Level: 21
        > TX Twist: 50
        > RX AMP: 13
        >
        >
        > Log file shows:
        > Port(KISS):2012-11-23T22:23:19.163 KISS:Missing Leading C0[1]:?
        > Port(KISS):2012-11-23T22:23:21.535 KISS:Missing Leading C0[47]:<0D 0A>Press ESC 3 times to enter TT4 Options Menu<0D 0A>
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        > ------------------------------------
        >
        > Yahoo! Groups Links
        >
        >
        >
        >
      • Jeffrey H
        APRSIS32 SSID is KD0TNH-10, TT4 is KD0TNH-9 although I haven t configured the TT4 to beacon anything itself. I thought the same at first. However, I put tape
        Message 3 of 24 , Nov 23, 2012
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          APRSIS32 SSID is KD0TNH-10, TT4 is KD0TNH-9 although I haven't configured the TT4 to beacon anything itself.

          I thought the same at first. However, I put tape on the knob and was using the same xramp # that I was using yesterday when it worked. Strangely, I lowered both the volume and xramp by a lot to make it work today. I left it running for awhile and I saw it decoding packets in the terminal. Re-enabled KISS mode and turned the port back on and I see stations appearing on the left with the * which I understand to be indicative of an RF packet. The strong stations seem to be making it now but the weaker ones that I hear are causing the yellow light to flicker on the TT but nothing is appearing in APRSIS.

          Now I'm back to the same problem I was originally trying to fix. Nobody was hearing me. I do see the red light on the TT4 and I see my radio go into transmit mode and "PACKET" appears on the display. Into a dummy load and on a simplex freq, I can hear the packet clearly in my handheld. I can send a message to my handheld and vice versa.
          Reconnecting the antenna, I started at the lowest setting within calibrate and stepped it up 5 points at a time until I heard myself repeated. For the first time, I have seen an entry in aprs.fi in the stations that heard me section. But it's the only one and they are 10 miles away. I hope more appear.

          I will keep an eye on it and see if it looks any better tomorrow.

          Is there anything else I should be checking?

          Thanks
          Jeff




          --- In aprsisce@yahoogroups.com, "Lynn W Deffenbaugh (Mr)" <kj4erj@...> wrote:
          >
          > Sounds to me like you mess up the volume on the radio and your TT4 isn't
          > decoding any more. Disable the port in APRSISCE/32 or close the client
          > and go back into your terminal emulator. Put the TT4 into TEXT mode and
          > see if you're decoding packets. Do the whole RXAMP/Volume tuning thing
          > again.
          >
          > Once that is complete and you're SURE the TT4 is decoding what it hears,
          > put the TT4 back into KISS mode and fire up APRSISCE/32.
          >
          > After that, verify that when you click Transmit, the TT4 red light comes
          > on and the radio actually transmits. If possible, listen on another
          > radio for a burst on 144.390 (or whatever frequency you're using) that
          > coincides with your APRSISCE/32 Transmits.
          >
          > What is the TT4's MYCALL and what are you running for APRSIS32?
          >
          > Lynn (D) - KJ4ERJ - Author of ARPSISCE for Windows Mobile and Win32
          >
          > On 11/23/2012 5:31 PM, Jeffrey H wrote:
          > > I'm using a TinyTrak4 and a Yaesu mobile- 50 watts into a J-Pole in the attic. I'm 10 miles from downtown St. Louis. I seemed to receive fine on the RF port and I could exchange messages with my handheld. However, another member pointed out that no other stations saw me transmitting according to aprs.fi.
          > >
          > > I begin to try fix that.
          > > I found it odd that I was transmitting and being heard by my handheld but that nobody else could either hear or decode me. So I repeated the Calibrate/Monitor/Rxamp procedures. I also found a posting by Lynn recommending to turn off squelch and set the TT4 for CDLevel=Data.
          > >
          > > Nothing is working for me now and I don't seem to be able to get back to even the partial working state that I was in before. I'm not receiving or transmitting.
          > >
          > > Here are my settings:
          > >
          > > XML File:
          > > <!--RFPort[0]-->
          > > <RFPort Name="KISS">
          > > <Protocol>Simply(KISS)</Protocol>
          > > <Device>COM1:19200,N,8,1</Device>
          > > <RfBaud>1200</RfBaud>
          > > <OpenCmd>~!!0</OpenCmd>
          > > <CloseCmd>~!!0</CloseCmd>
          > > <QuietTime>0</QuietTime>
          > > <Enabled>1</Enabled>
          > > <XmitEnabled>1</XmitEnabled>
          > > <ProvidesNMEA>0</ProvidesNMEA>
          > > <RFtoISEnabled>1</RFtoISEnabled>
          > > <IStoRFEnabled>1</IStoRFEnabled>
          > > <MyCallNot3rd>0</MyCallNot3rd>
          > > <BeaconingEnabled>1</BeaconingEnabled>
          > > <BeaconPath></BeaconPath>
          > > <BulletinObjectEnabled>0</BulletinObjectEnabled>
          > > <DXEnabled>0</DXEnabled>
          > > <DXPath></DXPath>
          > > <MessagesEnabled>0</MessagesEnabled>
          > > <MessagePath></MessagePath>
          > > <TelemetryEnabled>0</TelemetryEnabled>
          > > <TelemetryPath></TelemetryPath>
          > > <!--DigiXform-->
          > > </RFPort>
          > > <!--RFPort[0]-->
          > >
          > >
          > > Enables Ports All and KISS checked
          > > Configure Ports Kiss RFBaud is 1200 and Everything is checked but Me not 3rd.
          > >
          > >
          > > TinyTrak:
          > > Callsign: KD0TNH-10
          > > AMODE KISS 19200 BMODE GPS 4800
          > > Port A Mode Kiss Baud 19200
          > > CHECKED- Send decoded packets to serial ports
          > > CHECKED- Send generated packets to serial ports
          > > Didn't mess with anything under Position as I don't have GPS attached
          > >
          > > Packet:
          > > Path Wide1-1 Wide2-1 (blank)
          > > CD Mode: Tones
          > > CD Level: 13
          > > TX Level: 21
          > > TX Twist: 50
          > > RX AMP: 13
          > >
          > >
          > > Log file shows:
          > > Port(KISS):2012-11-23T22:23:19.163 KISS:Missing Leading C0[1]:?
          > > Port(KISS):2012-11-23T22:23:21.535 KISS:Missing Leading C0[47]:<0D 0A>Press ESC 3 times to enter TT4 Options Menu<0D 0A>
          > >
          > >
          > >
          > >
          > >
          > > ------------------------------------
          > >
          > > Yahoo! Groups Links
          > >
          > >
          > >
          > >
          >
        • James Ewen
          ... Hoping for something to happen really doesn t do much for making it to happen. This is especially true when dealing with computers. They could care less
          Message 4 of 24 , Nov 24, 2012
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            On Fri, Nov 23, 2012 at 11:59 PM, Jeffrey H <jeff@...> wrote:

            > For the first time, I have seen an entry in aprs.fi in the stations that
            > heard me section. But it's the only one and they are 10 miles away.
            > I hope more appear.

            Hoping for something to happen really doesn't do much for making it to
            happen. This is especially true when dealing with computers. They
            could care less what you wish and hope for, they will only do what you
            tell them to do.

            Looking at the raw packets from your station shows that your station
            is tied to the internet. Any packets originating from your station are
            being sent directly to the internet as well as possibly to the RF
            network.

            The APRS-IS is designed to ignore all but the first copy of a packet
            delivered to the stream. With your station on the internet, the
            fastest delivery method is direct from your station to the APRS-IS
            stream. The RF network won't be able to hear the packet until it is
            sent out at 1200 baud, and heard by another i-gate. If it has to hop
            through a digipeater before being heard by that other i-gate, then
            there's even more delay.

            For packets from your station to be heard via a digipeater and then
            another i-gate means that there was some problem with your internet
            connection.

            If you shut down your internet connection, then other i-gates would
            have a better chance of hearing and gating your packets. You're
            subject to the rules of "first in seen, all others dumped" still...
            That means that the first copy forwarded to the APRS-IS will be the
            only one seen. Most likely the closest i-gate will push your packets
            to the internet. You will probably see the occasional variance, but
            you will NOT get a good representation of which stations heard your
            packets by looking at a site on the internet.

            You need to listen on RF to know who's handling your packets, and then
            you will only be able to see those close to you. To know who can hear
            your station, you'll need to travel around your local RF network and
            have a listen from different areas. If you are using 2 hops
            (WIDE1-1,WIDE2-1), you'll need to travel out to where the digipeaters
            are 2 hops away from your place and have a listen.

            BTW, why is your home station needing to ask for help from other home
            fill-in digipeaters? We see evidence that your station can be heard by
            a main digipeater in the raw packets on the internet. WIDE1-1 is to be
            used by low powered stations when they can't get heard by the main
            digipeaters. Having higher powered mobiles, home stations, and
            digipeaters asking for help from a home fill-in digipeater is just a
            waste of resources. Having a extra stations digipeating packets when
            not required just causes congestion on the local RF network.

            --
            James
            VE6SRV
          • Jeffrey H
            James, My expression of hope was towards an improvement in RF propagation conditions, some type of routing/packet handling or some other changing variable that
            Message 5 of 24 , Nov 24, 2012
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              James,
              My expression of hope was towards an improvement in RF propagation conditions, some type of routing/packet handling or some other changing variable that I have yet to fully understand. I began this learning process a week ago but I'm pretty competent with computers.

              > For packets from your station to be heard via a digipeater and then
              > another i-gate means that there was some problem with your internet
              > connection.

              This might have been a result of my turning down the APRS-IS port in attempt to see if I could see be seen and and sent to APRS-IS by another station.
              -----------------------
              I was testing with KJ4AJP and he advised me:
              "I don't see any indication that your station is transmitting. If you're receiving it's beacon on your D72 that means you have the software set up OK, but it's possible to receive the packet locally and distant stations not hear it because your TinyTrak 4 may need tweaking - you could be over or under modulating the TX signal. Then again it could be possible that the other digis can't even hear your Digi/IGate even if it is set up properly, but with 50W into a J-Pole it's hard to believe you're not getting out!"

              On the "info" page http://aprs.fi/info/KD0TNH-10 there is no listing for "Stations which heard KD0TNH-10 directly on radio" (look at my Digi/IGate's info at http://aprs.fi/info/a/KJ4AJP-5 for an example)
              -----------------------
              I was trying to get some entries like he has under the belief that I have something configured wrong if I don't.


              > BTW, why is your home station needing to ask for help from other home
              > fill-in digipeaters?

              I don't understand enough yet to answer this question. My assumption is that it's based upon my settings within the XML file. I got these settings here: http://aprsisce.wikidot.com/doc:digipeating I thought that I was setting myself up as a Wide2 according to those instructions:

              "A WIDE2 digi would configure:
              <DigiXform>WIDE1-1=WIDE1*</DigiXform>
              <DigiXform>WIDE2-1=WIDE2*</DigiXform>
              <DigiXform>WIDE2-2=WIDE2-1</DigiXform>"

              -Jeff


              --- In aprsisce@yahoogroups.com, James Ewen <ve6srv@...> wrote:
              >
              > On Fri, Nov 23, 2012 at 11:59 PM, Jeffrey H <jeff@...> wrote:
              >
              > > For the first time, I have seen an entry in aprs.fi in the stations that
              > > heard me section. But it's the only one and they are 10 miles away.
              > > I hope more appear.
              >
              > Hoping for something to happen really doesn't do much for making it to
              > happen. This is especially true when dealing with computers. They
              > could care less what you wish and hope for, they will only do what you
              > tell them to do.
              >
              > Looking at the raw packets from your station shows that your station
              > is tied to the internet. Any packets originating from your station are
              > being sent directly to the internet as well as possibly to the RF
              > network.
              >
              > The APRS-IS is designed to ignore all but the first copy of a packet
              > delivered to the stream. With your station on the internet, the
              > fastest delivery method is direct from your station to the APRS-IS
              > stream. The RF network won't be able to hear the packet until it is
              > sent out at 1200 baud, and heard by another i-gate. If it has to hop
              > through a digipeater before being heard by that other i-gate, then
              > there's even more delay.
              >
              > For packets from your station to be heard via a digipeater and then
              > another i-gate means that there was some problem with your internet
              > connection.
              >
              > If you shut down your internet connection, then other i-gates would
              > have a better chance of hearing and gating your packets. You're
              > subject to the rules of "first in seen, all others dumped" still...
              > That means that the first copy forwarded to the APRS-IS will be the
              > only one seen. Most likely the closest i-gate will push your packets
              > to the internet. You will probably see the occasional variance, but
              > you will NOT get a good representation of which stations heard your
              > packets by looking at a site on the internet.
              >
              > You need to listen on RF to know who's handling your packets, and then
              > you will only be able to see those close to you. To know who can hear
              > your station, you'll need to travel around your local RF network and
              > have a listen from different areas. If you are using 2 hops
              > (WIDE1-1,WIDE2-1), you'll need to travel out to where the digipeaters
              > are 2 hops away from your place and have a listen.
              >
              > BTW, why is your home station needing to ask for help from other home
              > fill-in digipeaters? We see evidence that your station can be heard by
              > a main digipeater in the raw packets on the internet. WIDE1-1 is to be
              > used by low powered stations when they can't get heard by the main
              > digipeaters. Having higher powered mobiles, home stations, and
              > digipeaters asking for help from a home fill-in digipeater is just a
              > waste of resources. Having a extra stations digipeating packets when
              > not required just causes congestion on the local RF network.
              >
              > --
              > James
              > VE6SRV
              >
            • Roger Elmore
              Maybe because a new, inexperienced user reading the APRSIS32 wiki sees it stated as a safe value to use? http://aprsisce.wikidot.com/menu:configure-beacon
              Message 6 of 24 , Nov 24, 2012
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                Maybe because a new, inexperienced user reading the APRSIS32 wiki sees it stated as a "safe" value to use?

                http://aprsisce.wikidot.com/menu:configure-beacon

                --
                Roger KJ4AJP
                ________________________________________
                James Ewen wrote:

                BTW, why is your home station needing to ask for help from other home
                fill-in digipeaters? We see evidence that your station can be heard by
                a main digipeater in the raw packets on the internet. WIDE1-1 is to be
                used by low powered stations when they can't get heard by the main
                digipeaters. Having higher powered mobiles, home stations, and
                digipeaters asking for help from a home fill-in digipeater is just a
                waste of resources. Having a extra stations digipeating packets when
                not required just causes congestion on the local RF network.
              • Lynn W Deffenbaugh (Mr)
                ... James was asking about your outbound path as configured under Configure / Beacon / Path. The current WIDEn-N recommendations from
                Message 7 of 24 , Nov 24, 2012
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                  On 11/24/2012 5:01 PM, Jeffrey H wrote:

                  BTW, why is your home station needing to ask for help from other home
                  fill-in digipeaters?
                  
                  I don't understand enough yet to answer this question.  My assumption is that it's based upon my settings within the XML file.   I got these settings here: http://aprsisce.wikidot.com/doc:digipeating   I thought that I was setting myself up as a Wide2 according to those instructions:
                  
                  "A WIDE2 digi would configure:
                  <DigiXform>WIDE1-1=WIDE1*</DigiXform>
                  <DigiXform>WIDE2-1=WIDE2*</DigiXform>
                  <DigiXform>WIDE2-2=WIDE2-1</DigiXform>"
                  
                  

                  James was asking about your outbound path as configured under Configure / Beacon / Path.  The current WIDEn-N recommendations from http://www.aprs.org/fix14439.html are:



                  So your fixed station path should be WIDE2-2 only.

                  Lynn (D) - KJ4ERJ - Author of APRSISCE for Windows Mobile and Win32
                • Lynn W Deffenbaugh (Mr)
                  Wiki has been fixed, thank you for pointing that out. However, the link ... Lynn (D) - KJ4ERJ - Author of APRSISCE for Windows Mobile and Win32
                  Message 8 of 24 , Nov 24, 2012
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                    Wiki has been fixed, thank you for pointing that out.  However, the link it included is the "master source".  The Wiki now reads:

                    (see New Paradigm or just set it to WIDE1-1,WIDE2-1 as a "safe" mobile value or just WIDE2-1 for a fixed station)

                    Lynn (D) - KJ4ERJ - Author of APRSISCE for Windows Mobile and Win32


                    On 11/24/2012 5:24 PM, Roger Elmore wrote:
                    Maybe because a new, inexperienced  user reading the APRSIS32 wiki sees it stated as a "safe" value to use?
                    
                    http://aprsisce.wikidot.com/menu:configure-beacon
                    
                    --
                    Roger  KJ4AJP
                    ________________________________________
                    James Ewen wrote:
                    
                    BTW, why is your home station needing to ask for help from other home
                    fill-in digipeaters? We see evidence that your station can be heard by
                    a main digipeater in the raw packets on the internet. WIDE1-1 is to be
                    used by low powered stations when they can't get heard by the main
                    digipeaters. Having higher powered mobiles, home stations, and
                    digipeaters asking for help from a home fill-in digipeater is just a
                    waste of resources. Having a extra stations digipeating packets when
                    not required just causes congestion on the local RF network.
                    
                    
                    
                    ------------------------------------
                    
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                  • Jeffrey H
                    Got it. Thanks. I made the change.
                    Message 9 of 24 , Nov 24, 2012
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                      Got it. Thanks. I made the change.

                      --- In aprsisce@yahoogroups.com, "Lynn W Deffenbaugh (Mr)" <kj4erj@...> wrote:


                      > James was asking about your outbound path as configured under Configure
                      > / Beacon / Path. The current WIDEn-N recommendations from
                      > http://www.aprs.org/fix14439.html are:
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      > So your fixed station path should be WIDE2-2 only.
                      >
                      > Lynn (D) - KJ4ERJ - Author of APRSISCE for Windows Mobile and Win32
                      >
                    • Roger Elmore
                      My Digi/Igate (KJ4AJP-5) is UI-View, so I m not sure if one that is APRSIS32 based is the same. Mine beacons and sends MSG/LOC counts occasionally via RF to
                      Message 10 of 24 , Nov 24, 2012
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                        My Digi/Igate (KJ4AJP-5) is UI-View, so I'm not sure if one that is APRSIS32 based is the same. Mine beacons and sends MSG/LOC counts occasionally via RF to be qAR'd by another IGate. I thought that was normal, and not indicative of an internet failure (I'm in the IT department of the local University and the DIgi/IGate is on their tower and connected to their LAN).

                        Am I wrong? That's why I thought Jeff might have a problem with his TX.

                        ________________________________________
                        James Ewen wrote:

                        For packets from your station to be heard via a digipeater and then
                        another i-gate means that there was some problem with your internet
                        connection.
                      • James Ewen
                        ... Changing propagation isn t going to change the fact that the packets will get to the APRS-IS stream via your internet connection faster than a 1200 baud RF
                        Message 11 of 24 , Nov 24, 2012
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                          On Sat, Nov 24, 2012 at 3:01 PM, Jeffrey H <jeff@...> wrote:

                          > My expression of hope was towards an improvement in RF propagation
                          > conditions, some type of routing/packet handling or some other changing
                          > variable that I have yet to fully understand. I began this learning process
                          > a week ago but I'm pretty competent with computers.

                          Changing propagation isn't going to change the fact that the packets
                          will get to the APRS-IS stream via your internet connection faster
                          than a 1200 baud RF channel... It may change where your packet is hear
                          via RF, but we're talking about a race where your internet connection
                          is the Hare, and the RF channel is the Tortoise. When you set both
                          packets loose, the Hare is going to win 99% of the time.

                          The routing/packet handling variables are under your control for the
                          most part. That would be the path elements used in your outgoing path.
                          Again however if you are sending the packet out via a Mbps port and a
                          1200 bps port, the faster port is always going to win unless there's a
                          problem on the faster port. (Which can happen occasionally) Hoping for
                          a change there won't make the path used change.

                          It is good to know that you've got a good grasp on computers. That
                          means that you most likely don't think that these things are magic
                          boxes that do strange things all by themselves. You tell the computer
                          what to do, and it does just that, even if it isn't what you wanted it
                          to do. APRS is all about computers, even the radios with APRS built in
                          are purpose built computers, and they do EXACTLY what you ask of them.

                          The thing that adds interest to how things work is that we send the
                          signals out over RF where they are influenced by many, many factors,
                          which in turn adds some "randomness" to the way things work. This is
                          especially true for a mobile station where mobile flutter, fading,
                          picket-fencing, and a whole host of "random" factors influence the
                          reliability of the packet delivery.

                          >> For packets from your station to be heard via a digipeater and then
                          >> another i-gate means that there was some problem with your internet
                          >> connection.
                          >
                          > This might have been a result of my turning down the APRS-IS port in
                          > attempt to see if I could see be seen and and sent to APRS-IS by
                          > another station.

                          Aha, then you're not relying on hope, but rather doing controlled
                          tests to see if the RF portion was working... Perfect! Random changes
                          with no idea what variable is causing the changed output can easily
                          lead to confusion, but controlled tests with defined changes made, and
                          observations correlated makes it easier to gain understanding of what
                          is happening, and what variables affect the outcome.

                          > I was testing with KJ4AJP and he advised me:
                          > "I don't see any indication that your station is transmitting.

                          He is a fair distance away on RF to be a really good station to use
                          for observation of your station performance. For him to see packets
                          from your station, they will probably have to be digipeated at least 2
                          times, unless you have some good long range digipeaters between the
                          two of you. (180 miles is a pretty long haul) This means that you will
                          have to be heard by a digipeater, then digipeated to another
                          digipeater that KJ4AJP can hear. If there's lots of activity in your
                          area, those digipeats might get clobbered before they can be
                          propagated between your two stations.

                          > If you're receiving it's beacon on your D72 that means you have the
                          > software set up OK, but it's possible to receive the packet locally
                          > and distant stations not hear it because your TinyTrak 4 may need
                          > tweaking - you could be over or under modulating the TX signal.
                          > Then again it could be possible that the other digis can't even hear
                          > your Digi/IGate even if it is set up properly, but with 50W into a
                          > J-Pole it's hard to believe you're not getting out!"

                          He's bang on the money with this statement. You have to get the signal
                          from your station set up properly so that others can decode your
                          signals.

                          > On the "info" page http://aprs.fi/info/KD0TNH-10 there is no listing for
                          > "Stations which heard KD0TNH-10 directly on radio" (look at my
                          > Digi/IGate's info at http://aprs.fi/info/a/KJ4AJP-5 for an example)

                          This is where it falls off the rails though. The APRS-IS only keeps
                          the first copy of a packet heard. As stated before, if you are
                          connected to the internet, the packets sent directly from your station
                          to the internet are going to mask out any packets that traversed the
                          RF network and were later gated to the internet.

                          > I was trying to get some entries like he has under the belief
                          > that I have something configured wrong if I don't.

                          Shut down your internet and let the RF network have a chance to hear
                          your packets first. You'll need to run for a while to let the
                          "randomness" happen for a while to see if more than a couple stations
                          can hear your packets and gate them first.

                          >> BTW, why is your home station needing to ask for help from other home
                          >> fill-in digipeaters?
                          >
                          > I don't understand enough yet to answer this question. My assumption is that
                          > it's based upon my settings within the XML file.

                          It is indeed, but remember this is a computer... you put the
                          information into the program, and it saved it in the XML file.

                          > I got these settings here: http://aprsisce.wikidot.com/doc:digipeating
                          > I thought that I was setting myself up as a Wide2 according to those instructions:
                          >
                          > "A WIDE2 digi would configure:
                          > <DigiXform>WIDE1-1=WIDE1*</DigiXform>
                          > <DigiXform>WIDE2-1=WIDE2*</DigiXform>
                          > <DigiXform>WIDE2-2=WIDE2-1</DigiXform>"

                          Okay, that is digipeating. These settings configure your station to
                          act as a digipeater. That is you are going to be handling packets from
                          other stations. Digipeaters need to be configured and installed after
                          careful consideration and consultation with other digipeater owners in
                          the area.

                          One digipeater in an area is a good thing, as it repeats the packets
                          it hears and sends them out over a larger area. This is similar to
                          what a voice repeater does, but the digipeater does it by listening
                          and then resending the packet on the same frequency. Think about what
                          it would sound like with 2 voice repeaters on the same frequency in
                          the same area. You'll get heterodyning, and have a hard time hearing
                          the audio. Too many overlapping digipeaters, and you get the same
                          problem. You can have a listen to what it sounds like when you have 6
                          digipeaters within 10 miles of each other. http://youtu.be/ICYFWGGcCWA

                          It would be best to NOT configure your station to act as a digipeater
                          until you can figure out how to configure your station to be a user on
                          the APRS network. Once you get your station working, you can learn
                          about how APRS works, and learn about the network as well. Then once
                          you have a good understanding you can start talking with others and
                          determine if your station could become a useful addition to the
                          network.

                          What I was talking about was your outgoing path setting. That is the
                          path that you are asking the digipeaters in your area to move your
                          packets via. Your outgoing path is WIDE1-1,WIDE2-1. You are asking for
                          a first hop from home fill-in digipeaters as well as the main
                          digipeaters, and then a second hop from the main digipeaters.

                          KJ4AJP says that you're running 50 watts into a j-pole antenna...
                          you're asking for help from a home fill-in digipeater on your first
                          hop. If your neighbor is configured to act as a home fill-in
                          digipeater, and they are running at 10 watts with a 1/4 wave antenna
                          in the attic, how much help will you be getting from that home fill-in
                          digipeater?

                          A low powered handheld with 2 watts into a negative gain rubber duck
                          antenna asking for help from that 10 watt home station makes sense,
                          but a high powered station with a decent gain antenna should not be
                          asking for help from a similar type station.

                          --
                          James
                          VE6SRV
                        • Jeffrey H
                          ... As I said, I had my Internet connection was turned down. ... http://www.wikihow.com/Stop-Being-a-Condescending-Person James, save the trouble and don t
                          Message 12 of 24 , Nov 24, 2012
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                            > Changing propagation isn't going to change the fact that the packets
                            > will get to the APRS-IS stream via your internet connection faster
                            > than a 1200 baud RF channel...

                            As I said, I had my Internet connection was turned down.

                            > Hoping for
                            > a change there won't make the path used change.
                            >
                            > It is good to know that you've got a good grasp on computers. That
                            > means that you most likely don't think that these things are magic
                            > boxes
                            > Aha, then you're not relying on hope, but rather doing controlled
                            > tests to see if the RF portion was working... Perfect! Random changes
                            > with no idea what variable is causing the changed output can easily
                            > lead to confusion, but controlled tests with defined changes made, and
                            > observations correlated makes it easier to gain understanding of what
                            > is happening, and what variables affect the outcome.

                            http://www.wikihow.com/Stop-Being-a-Condescending-Person
                            James, save the trouble and don't concern yourself with "educating" me any more. I'm not interested in hearing from you.

                            Jeff
                          • James Ewen
                            ... Sorry for trying to answer the question you posed, and in the process learn how APRS works. I guess you re happy with your station not working . Please
                            Message 13 of 24 , Nov 24, 2012
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                              On Sat, Nov 24, 2012 at 10:33 PM, Jeffrey H <jeff@...> wrote:

                              > James, save the trouble and don't concern yourself with "educating"
                              > me any more. I'm not interested in hearing from you.

                              Sorry for trying to answer the question you posed, and in the process
                              learn how APRS works.

                              I guess you're happy with your station "not working".

                              Please don't ask any more questions then... people will just naturally
                              try to help you learn about APRS and annoy you even more.

                              --
                              James
                              VE6SRV
                            • Lynn W Deffenbaugh (Mr)
                              Jeff, As you frequent the group, you ll learn about James (and others of the frequent group denizens). He really does answer questions and does an extremely
                              Message 14 of 24 , Nov 25, 2012
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                                Jeff,

                                As you frequent the group, you'll learn about James (and others of the
                                frequent group denizens). He really does answer questions and does an
                                extremely good job at it. Sometimes, as you observed, he does come
                                across as... I guess it would be condescending. Just read through those
                                sections and glean the true nuggets of knowledge that are in his every post.

                                And please keep asking questions here. My belief is that for every
                                person that asks a question, there's probably ten or more that are
                                interested in the answer. And asked questions are the only way we'll
                                be able to increase the communal knowledge. And the answer-er cannot
                                assume any particular knowledge level of the question-er, so sometimes
                                the answer may seem pedantic, belittling, or condescending. That's
                                usually just the attempt to bird-shot an unknown level of expertise.
                                Many of us assume no prior knowledge and so our answers may be below
                                your level of intelligence. It'll improve as we pick up on the
                                questioner's level of understanding.

                                Again, just ignore the tone and/or personal jabs (like your volley back
                                to him...) that occur sometimes and focus on the technical aspects and
                                all will go well.

                                Lynn (D) - KJ4ERJ - Author of APRSISCE for Windows Mobile and Win32

                                On 11/25/2012 12:33 AM, Jeffrey H wrote:
                                >> Changing propagation isn't going to change the fact that the packets
                                >> will get to the APRS-IS stream via your internet connection faster
                                >> than a 1200 baud RF channel...
                                > As I said, I had my Internet connection was turned down.
                                >
                                >> Hoping for
                                >> a change there won't make the path used change.
                                >>
                                >> It is good to know that you've got a good grasp on computers. That
                                >> means that you most likely don't think that these things are magic
                                >> boxes
                                >> Aha, then you're not relying on hope, but rather doing controlled
                                >> tests to see if the RF portion was working... Perfect! Random changes
                                >> with no idea what variable is causing the changed output can easily
                                >> lead to confusion, but controlled tests with defined changes made, and
                                >> observations correlated makes it easier to gain understanding of what
                                >> is happening, and what variables affect the outcome.
                                > http://www.wikihow.com/Stop-Being-a-Condescending-Person
                                > James, save the trouble and don't concern yourself with "educating" me any more. I'm not interested in hearing from you.
                                >
                                > Jeff
                                >
                                >
                                >
                                >
                                > ------------------------------------
                                >
                                > Yahoo! Groups Links
                                >
                                >
                                >
                                >
                              • Rob Giuliano
                                One thing to remember about reading posts and e-mail is that there is little a writer can do that can t be mis-interpreted by the readers own emotion. 
                                Message 15 of 24 , Nov 25, 2012
                                • 0 Attachment
                                  One thing to remember about "reading posts and e-mail" is that there is little a writer can do that can't be mis-interpreted by the readers own emotion.  Therefore, the majority of emotion comes from the reader. 
                                   
                                  It is better to try and set any emotion aside when reaing the posts as much as possible.
                                   
                                  Robert Giuliano
                                  KB8RCO


                                  ---------------------------------------------
                                  From: Lynn W Deffenbaugh (Mr) <kj4erj@...>
                                  To: aprsisce@yahoogroups.com
                                  Sent: Sunday, November 25, 2012 7:25 AM
                                  Subject: [aprsisce] James & personal jabs (was: Frustration...)
                                   
                                  Jeff,

                                  As you frequent the group, you'll learn about James (and others of the
                                  frequent group denizens). He really does answer questions and does an
                                  extremely good job at it. Sometimes, as you observed, he does come
                                  across as... I guess it would be condescending. Just read through those
                                  sections and glean the true nuggets of knowledge that are in his every post.

                                  And please keep asking questions here. My belief is that for every
                                  person that asks a question, there's probably ten or more that are
                                  interested in the answer. And asked questions are the only way we'll
                                  be able to increase the communal knowledge. And the answer-er cannot
                                  assume any particular knowledge level of the question-er, so sometimes
                                  the answer may seem pedantic, belittling, or condescending. That's
                                  usually just the attempt to bird-shot an unknown level of expertise.
                                  Many of us assume no prior knowledge and so our answers may be below
                                  your level of intelligence. It'll improve as we pick up on the
                                  questioner's level of understanding.

                                  Again, just ignore the tone and/or personal jabs (like your volley back
                                  to him...) that occur sometimes and focus on the technical aspects and
                                  all will go well.

                                  Lynn (D) - KJ4ERJ - Author of APRSISCE for Windows Mobile and Win32

                                  On 11/25/2012 12:33 AM, Jeffrey H wrote:
                                  >> Changing propagation isn't going to change the fact that the packets
                                  >> will get to the APRS-IS stream via your internet connection faster
                                  >> than a 1200 baud RF channel...
                                  > As I said, I had my Internet connection was turned down.
                                  >
                                  >> Hoping for
                                  >> a change there won't make the path used change.
                                  >>
                                  >> It is good to know that you've got a good grasp on computers. That
                                  >> means that you most likely don't think that these things are magic
                                  >> boxes
                                  >> Aha, then you're not relying on hope, but rather doing controlled
                                  >> tests to see if the RF portion was working... Perfect! Random changes
                                  >> with no idea what variable is causing the changed output can easily
                                  >> lead to confusion, but controlled tests with defined changes made, and
                                  >> observations correlated makes it easier to gain understanding of what
                                  >> is happening, and what variables affect the outcome.
                                  > http://www.wikihow.com/Stop-Being-a-Condescending-Person
                                  > James, save the trouble and don't concern yourself with "educating" me any more. I'm not interested in hearing from you.
                                  >
                                  > Jeff
                                  >
                                  >
                                  >
                                  >
                                  > ------------------------------------
                                  >
                                  > Yahoo! Groups Links
                                  >
                                  >
                                  >
                                  >

                                • Steve Daniels
                                  James is a very knowledgeable member of the APRSIS group, have had discussions with him, and he has not quite called me an idiot at times, (because I was
                                  Message 16 of 24 , Nov 25, 2012
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                                    James is a very knowledgeable member of the APRSIS group, have had discussions with him, and he has not quite called me an idiot at times, (because I was being), he just made it a paragraph rather than one word ;-)

                                    The trouble is most people don’t explain the problem fully, and James as do the rest of us have to guess what you are doing or wanting to do.

                                    I for one would buy James a pint if he arrived in the UK

                                     

                                    Steve Daniels

                                    Amateur Radio Callsign G6UIM

                                    Torbay Freecycle  Owner

                                    http://http://uk.groups.yahoo.com/group/torbay_freecycle

                                    APRSISCE/32 Beta tester and WIKI editor http://aprsisce.wikidot.com

                                     


                                    From: aprsisce@yahoogroups.com [mailto: aprsisce@yahoogroups.com ] On Behalf Of Lynn W Deffenbaugh (Mr)
                                    Sent: 25 November 2012 12:26
                                    To: aprsisce@yahoogroups.com
                                    Subject: [aprsisce] James & personal jabs (was: Frustration...)

                                     

                                     

                                    Jeff,

                                    As you frequent the group, you'll learn about James (and others of the
                                    frequent group denizens). He really does answer questions and does an
                                    extremely good job at it. Sometimes, as you observed, he does come
                                    across as... I guess it would be condescending. Just read through those
                                    sections and glean the true nuggets of knowledge that are in his every post.

                                    And please keep asking questions here. My belief is that for every
                                    person that asks a question, there's probably ten or more that are
                                    interested in the answer. And asked questions are the only way we'll
                                    be able to increase the communal knowledge. And the answer-er cannot
                                    assume any particular knowledge level of the question-er, so sometimes
                                    the answer may seem pedantic, belittling, or condescending. That's
                                    usually just the attempt to bird-shot an unknown level of expertise.
                                    Many of us assume no prior knowledge and so our answers may be below
                                    your level of intelligence. It'll improve as we pick up on the
                                    questioner's level of understanding.

                                    Again, just ignore the tone and/or personal jabs (like your volley back
                                    to him...) that occur sometimes and focus on the technical aspects and
                                    all will go well.

                                    Lynn (D) - KJ4ERJ - Author of APRSISCE for Windows Mobile and Win32

                                    On 11/25/2012 12:33 AM, Jeffrey H wrote:
                                    >> Changing propagation isn't going to change the fact that the packets
                                    >> will get to the APRS-IS stream via your internet connection faster
                                    >> than a 1200 baud RF channel...
                                    > As I said, I had my Internet connection was turned down.
                                    >
                                    >> Hoping for
                                    >> a change there won't make the path used change.
                                    >>
                                    >> It is good to know that you've got a good grasp on computers. That
                                    >> means that you most likely don't think that these things are magic
                                    >> boxes
                                    >> Aha, then you're not relying on hope, but rather doing controlled
                                    >> tests to see if the RF portion was working... Perfect! Random changes
                                    >> with no idea what variable is causing the changed output can easily
                                    >> lead to confusion, but controlled tests with defined changes made, and
                                    >> observations correlated makes it easier to gain understanding of what
                                    >> is happening, and what variables affect the outcome.
                                    > http://www.wikihow.com/Stop-Being-a-Condescending-Person
                                    > James, save the trouble and don't concern yourself with "educating" me any more. I'm not interested in hearing from you.
                                    >
                                    > Jeff
                                    >
                                    >
                                    >
                                    >
                                    > ------------------------------------
                                    >
                                    > Yahoo! Groups Links
                                    >
                                    >
                                    >
                                    >

                                  • Steve Daniels
                                    I just posted a response. Email is very impersonal, you don t get the facial feedback etc, so a joke can seem like an attack etc. James spends a lot of time
                                    Message 17 of 24 , Nov 25, 2012
                                    • 0 Attachment

                                      I just posted a response.

                                      Email is very impersonal, you  don’t get the facial feedback etc, so a joke can seem like an attack etc.

                                      James spends a lot of time helping people out. More so than he needs to.

                                       

                                       

                                      Steve Daniels

                                      Amateur Radio Callsign G6UIM

                                      Torbay Freecycle  Owner

                                      http://http://uk.groups.yahoo.com/group/torbay_freecycle

                                      APRSISCE/32 Beta tester and WIKI editor http://aprsisce.wikidot.com

                                       


                                      From: aprsisce@yahoogroups.com [mailto: aprsisce@yahoogroups.com ] On Behalf Of Rob Giuliano
                                      Sent: 26 November 2012 01:46
                                      To: aprsisce@yahoogroups.com
                                      Subject: Re: [aprsisce] James & personal jabs (was: Frustration...)

                                       

                                       

                                      One thing to remember about "reading posts and e-mail" is that there is little a writer can do that can't be mis-interpreted by the readers own emotion.  Therefore, the majority of emotion comes from the reader. 

                                       

                                      It is better to try and set any emotion aside when reaing the posts as much as possible.

                                       

                                      Robert Giuliano
                                      KB8RCO

                                       

                                      ---------------------------------------------

                                      From: Lynn W Deffenbaugh (Mr) <kj4erj@...>
                                      To: aprsisce@yahoogroups.com
                                      Sent: Sunday, November 25, 2012 7:25 AM
                                      Subject: [aprsisce] James & personal jabs (was: Frustration...)

                                       

                                      Jeff,

                                      As you frequent the group, you'll learn about James (and others of the
                                      frequent group denizens). He really does answer questions and does an
                                      extremely good job at it. Sometimes, as you observed, he does come
                                      across as... I guess it would be condescending. Just read through those
                                      sections and glean the true nuggets of knowledge that are in his every post.

                                      And please keep asking questions here. My belief is that for every
                                      person that asks a question, there's probably ten or more that are
                                      interested in the answer. And asked questions are the only way we'll
                                      be able to increase the communal knowledge. And the answer-er cannot
                                      assume any particular knowledge level of the question-er, so sometimes
                                      the answer may seem pedantic, belittling, or condescending. That's
                                      usually just the attempt to bird-shot an unknown level of expertise.
                                      Many of us assume no prior knowledge and so our answers may be below
                                      your level of intelligence. It'll improve as we pick up on the
                                      questioner's level of understanding.

                                      Again, just ignore the tone and/or personal jabs (like your volley back
                                      to him...) that occur sometimes and focus on the technical aspects and
                                      all will go well.

                                      Lynn (D) - KJ4ERJ - Author of APRSISCE for Windows Mobile and Win32

                                      On 11/25/2012 12:33 AM, Jeffrey H wrote:
                                      >> Changing propagation isn't going to change the fact that the packets
                                      >> will get to the APRS-IS stream via your internet connection faster
                                      >> than a 1200 baud RF channel...
                                      > As I said, I had my Internet connection was turned down.
                                      >
                                      >> Hoping for
                                      >> a change there won't make the path used change.
                                      >>
                                      >> It is good to know that you've got a good grasp on computers. That
                                      >> means that you most likely don't think that these things are magic
                                      >> boxes
                                      >> Aha, then you're not relying on hope, but rather doing controlled
                                      >> tests to see if the RF portion was working... Perfect! Random changes
                                      >> with no idea what variable is causing the changed output can easily
                                      >> lead to confusion, but controlled tests with defined changes made, and
                                      >> observations correlated makes it easier to gain understanding of what
                                      >> is happening, and what variables affect the outcome.
                                      > http://www.wikihow.com/Stop-Being-a-Condescending-Person
                                      > James, save the trouble and don't concern yourself with "educating" me any more. I'm not interested in hearing from you.
                                      >
                                      > Jeff
                                      >
                                      >
                                      >
                                      >
                                      > ------------------------------------
                                      >
                                      > Yahoo! Groups Links
                                      >
                                      >
                                      >
                                      >

                                    • Colin XSD
                                      ... Now there is a subject I am sure I could give James some education. 73, Colin M0XSD.
                                      Message 18 of 24 , Nov 26, 2012
                                      • 0 Attachment
                                        On 26/11/2012 01:58, Steve Daniels wrote:
                                        I for one would buy James a pint if he arrived in the UK
                                        Now there is a subject I am sure I could give James some education.


                                        73,
                                        Colin
                                        M0XSD.
                                      • Colin XSD
                                        I agree Steve, I have had a few run-ins with James myself but I think we are still on speaking terms. The other consideration is the Language barrier, I have
                                        Message 19 of 24 , Nov 26, 2012
                                        • 0 Attachment
                                          I agree Steve, I have had a few run-ins with James myself but I think we are still on speaking terms.

                                          The other consideration is the Language barrier, I have spoken to Lynn on this subject a few times when we have got it wrong between ourselves. The trouble is that we tend to all speak English but don't take into account whether it is British, American or Canadian (or the many other versions, at least Canadian appears to be closer to British than American).


                                          73,
                                          Colin
                                          M0XSD.

                                          On 26/11/2012 02:10, Steve Daniels wrote:
                                           

                                          I just posted a response.

                                          Email is very impersonal, you  don’t get the facial feedback etc, so a joke can seem like an attack etc.

                                          James spends a lot of time helping people out. More so than he needs to.

                                           

                                           

                                          Steve Daniels

                                          Amateur Radio Callsign G6UIM

                                          Torbay Freecycle  Owner

                                          http://http://uk.groups.yahoo.com/group/torbay_freecycle

                                          APRSISCE/32 Beta tester and WIKI editor http://aprsisce.wikidot.com

                                           


                                          From: aprsisce@yahoogroups.com [mailto:aprsisce@yahoogroups.com ] On Behalf Of Rob Giuliano
                                          Sent: 26 November 2012 01:46
                                          To: aprsisce@yahoogroups.com
                                          Subject: Re: [aprsisce] James & personal jabs (was: Frustration...)

                                           

                                           

                                          One thing to remember about "reading posts and e-mail" is that there is little a writer can do that can't be mis-interpreted by the readers own emotion.  Therefore, the majority of emotion comes from the reader. 

                                           

                                          It is better to try and set any emotion aside when reaing the posts as much as possible.

                                           

                                          Robert Giuliano
                                          KB8RCO

                                           

                                          ---------------------------------------------

                                          From: Lynn W Deffenbaugh (Mr) <kj4erj@...>
                                          To: aprsisce@yahoogroups.com
                                          Sent: Sunday, November 25, 2012 7:25 AM
                                          Subject: [aprsisce] James & personal jabs (was: Frustration...)

                                           

                                          Jeff,

                                          As you frequent the group, you'll learn about James (and others of the
                                          frequent group denizens). He really does answer questions and does an
                                          extremely good job at it. Sometimes, as you observed, he does come
                                          across as... I guess it would be condescending. Just read through those
                                          sections and glean the true nuggets of knowledge that are in his every post.

                                          And please keep asking questions here. My belief is that for every
                                          person that asks a question, there's probably ten or more that are
                                          interested in the answer. And asked questions are the only way we'll
                                          be able to increase the communal knowledge. And the answer-er cannot
                                          assume any particular knowledge level of the question-er, so sometimes
                                          the answer may seem pedantic, belittling, or condescending. That's
                                          usually just the attempt to bird-shot an unknown level of expertise.
                                          Many of us assume no prior knowledge and so our answers may be below
                                          your level of intelligence. It'll improve as we pick up on the
                                          questioner's level of understanding.

                                          Again, just ignore the tone and/or personal jabs (like your volley back
                                          to him...) that occur sometimes and focus on the technical aspects and
                                          all will go well.

                                          Lynn (D) - KJ4ERJ - Author of APRSISCE for Windows Mobile and Win32

                                          On 11/25/2012 12:33 AM, Jeffrey H wrote:
                                          >> Changing propagation isn't going to change the fact that the packets
                                          >> will get to the APRS-IS stream via your internet connection faster
                                          >> than a 1200 baud RF channel...
                                          > As I said, I had my Internet connection was turned down.
                                          >
                                          >> Hoping for
                                          >> a change there won't make the path used change.
                                          >>
                                          >> It is good to know that you've got a good grasp on computers. That
                                          >> means that you most likely don't think that these things are magic
                                          >> boxes
                                          >> Aha, then you're not relying on hope, but rather doing controlled
                                          >> tests to see if the RF portion was working... Perfect! Random changes
                                          >> with no idea what variable is causing the changed output can easily
                                          >> lead to confusion, but controlled tests with defined changes made, and
                                          >> observations correlated makes it easier to gain understanding of what
                                          >> is happening, and what variables affect the outcome.
                                          > http://www.wikihow.com/Stop-Being-a-Condescending-Person
                                          > James, save the trouble and don't concern yourself with "educating" me any more. I'm not interested in hearing from you.
                                          >
                                          > Jeff
                                          >
                                          >
                                          >
                                          >
                                          > ------------------------------------
                                          >
                                          > Yahoo! Groups Links
                                          >
                                          >
                                          >
                                          >


                                        • Roger Elmore
                                          Well, language barriers and the written communication not the same as face-to-face aside, I reread James post and I didn t see it as condescending and was a
                                          Message 20 of 24 , Nov 26, 2012
                                          • 0 Attachment

                                            Well, language barriers and the written communication not the same as face-to-face aside, I reread James’ post and I didn’t see it as condescending and was a little surprised at Jeff’s response.  I figured, like Jeff’s subject line said, he was frustrated.  Setting up a TT4 for the first time can get to you, believe me.  Since Jeff’s knowledgeable with computers I’m sure he can relate to helping someone out with something that’s simple to him because he’s had experience with it, but the person he’s trying to help is mad at the situation and shoots the messenger.  Then again, maybe I’m being condescending… <shrug>

                                             

                                            From the raw packets, Looks like Jeff’s got KD0TNH (changed from KD0TNH-10) TXing on RF but with a path of WIDE1-1,WID2-2. 

                                             

                                            Jeff:

                                            Change your path to just WIDE2-2.  Note the spelling.  J

                                             

                                            Your status comment is “I-Gate & Fill-In Digi | Kirkwood, MO”, so if you’re running as a Fill-In now, I assume you removed the other two lines in the XML file that concerned WIDE2-N packets?

                                             

                                            For your Beacon Comment leave the PHG calculation but use “W1-1, IGate, Kirkwood MO”.  The suggested format for digi beacons is explained here:  http://www.aprs.org/newN/n-n-overlays.txt

                                             

                                            Note the 2007 document at that url suggests the symbol to be the “No Digi” green star from the Secondary Symbol Set and an overlay of “1”.  Although it has missing gifs and javascript errors, there is another page  http://www.aprs.org/digi-overlays.html  that “view page source” dates a year later and says a digi that is also an IGate can use an “I” as the overlay, so that’s what I use on mine.

                                             

                                            Disable APRS-IS, make sure APRS-RF is OK and send a message to KJ4AJP-1.  Let’s see how it gets here.  J

                                             

                                            Question for the group – Hardware digis are normally set to do a local beacon to RF every 10 minutes and a 2-hop every hour.  Is that controllable (or already taken care of in the XML) in APRSIS32?

                                            --

                                            Roger  KJ4AJP

                                             

                                             

                                            From: aprsisce@yahoogroups.com [mailto:aprsisce@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Colin XSD
                                            Sent: Monday, November 26, 2012 5:14 AM
                                            To: aprsisce@yahoogroups.com
                                            Subject: Re: [aprsisce] James & personal jabs

                                             




                                            I agree Steve, I have had a few run-ins with James myself but I think we are still on speaking terms.

                                            The other consideration is the Language barrier, I have spoken to Lynn on this subject a few times when we have got it wrong between ourselves. The trouble is that we tend to all speak English but don't take into account whether it is British, American or Canadian (or the many other versions, at least Canadian appears to be closer to British than American).


                                            73,
                                            Colin
                                            M0XSD.

                                            On 26/11/2012 02:10, Steve Daniels wrote:

                                             

                                            I just posted a response.

                                            Email is very impersonal, you  don’t get the facial feedback etc, so a joke can seem like an attack etc.

                                            James spends a lot of time helping people out. More so than he needs to.

                                             

                                             

                                            Steve Daniels

                                            Amateur Radio Callsign G6UIM

                                            Torbay Freecycle  Owner

                                            http://http://uk.groups.yahoo.com/group/torbay_freecycle

                                            APRSISCE/32 Beta tester and WIKI editor http://aprsisce.wikidot.com

                                             


                                            From: aprsisce@yahoogroups.com [mailto:aprsisce@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Rob Giuliano
                                            Sent: 26 November 2012 01:46
                                            To: aprsisce@yahoogroups.com
                                            Subject: Re: [aprsisce] James & personal jabs (was: Frustration...)

                                             

                                             

                                            One thing to remember about "reading posts and e-mail" is that there is little a writer can do that can't be mis-interpreted by the readers own emotion.  Therefore, the majority of emotion comes from the reader. 

                                             

                                            It is better to try and set any emotion aside when reaing the posts as much as possible.

                                             

                                            Robert Giuliano
                                            KB8RCO

                                             

                                            ---------------------------------------------

                                            From: Lynn W Deffenbaugh (Mr) <kj4erj@...>
                                            To: aprsisce@yahoogroups.com
                                            Sent: Sunday, November 25, 2012 7:25 AM
                                            Subject: [aprsisce] James & personal jabs (was: Frustration...)

                                             

                                            Jeff,

                                            As you frequent the group, you'll learn about James (and others of the
                                            frequent group denizens). He really does answer questions and does an
                                            extremely good job at it. Sometimes, as you observed, he does come
                                            across as... I guess it would be condescending. Just read through those
                                            sections and glean the true nuggets of knowledge that are in his every post.

                                            And please keep asking questions here. My belief is that for every
                                            person that asks a question, there's probably ten or more that are
                                            interested in the answer. And asked questions are the only way we'll
                                            be able to increase the communal knowledge. And the answer-er cannot
                                            assume any particular knowledge level of the question-er, so sometimes
                                            the answer may seem pedantic, belittling, or condescending. That's
                                            usually just the attempt to bird-shot an unknown level of expertise.
                                            Many of us assume no prior knowledge and so our answers may be below
                                            your level of intelligence. It'll improve as we pick up on the
                                            questioner's level of understanding.

                                            Again, just ignore the tone and/or personal jabs (like your volley back
                                            to him...) that occur sometimes and focus on the technical aspects and
                                            all will go well.

                                            Lynn (D) - KJ4ERJ - Author of APRSISCE for Windows Mobile and Win32

                                            On 11/25/2012 12:33 AM, Jeffrey H wrote:
                                            >> Changing propagation isn't going to change the fact that the packets
                                            >> will get to the APRS-IS stream via your internet connection faster
                                            >> than a 1200 baud RF channel...
                                            > As I said, I had my Internet connection was turned down.
                                            >
                                            >> Hoping for
                                            >> a change there won't make the path used change.
                                            >>
                                            >> It is good to know that you've got a good grasp on computers. That
                                            >> means that you most likely don't think that these things are magic
                                            >> boxes
                                            >> Aha, then you're not relying on hope, but rather doing controlled
                                            >> tests to see if the RF portion was working... Perfect! Random changes
                                            >> with no idea what variable is causing the changed output can easily
                                            >> lead to confusion, but controlled tests with defined changes made, and
                                            >> observations correlated makes it easier to gain understanding of what
                                            >> is happening, and what variables affect the outcome.
                                            > http://www.wikihow.com/Stop-Being-a-Condescending-Person
                                            > James, save the trouble and don't concern yourself with "educating" me any more. I'm not interested in hearing from you.
                                            >
                                            > Jeff
                                            >
                                            >
                                            >
                                            >
                                            > ------------------------------------
                                            >
                                            > Yahoo! Groups Links
                                            >
                                            >
                                            >
                                            >





                                          • Steve Daniels
                                            You are better placed in the country for educating about beer, having tasted Canadian beer, I would say Canadian s in general need educating but at least they
                                            Message 21 of 24 , Nov 26, 2012
                                            • 0 Attachment

                                              You are better placed in the country for educating about beer, having tasted Canadian beer, I would say Canadian’s in general need educating but at least they know what beer is unlike the AmericansJ

                                               

                                              If I came across like I had any issue with James, I don’t, the discussions I have had have been worthwhile ones

                                               

                                              Steve Daniels

                                              Amateur Radio Callsign G6UIM

                                              Torbay Freecycle  Owner

                                              http://http://uk.groups.yahoo.com/group/torbay_freecycle

                                              APRSISCE/32 Beta tester and WIKI editor http://aprsisce.wikidot.com

                                               


                                              From: aprsisce@yahoogroups.com [mailto: aprsisce@yahoogroups.com ] On Behalf Of Colin XSD
                                              Sent: 26 November 2012 11:04
                                              To: aprsisce@yahoogroups.com
                                              Subject: Re: [aprsisce] James & personal jabs

                                               

                                               

                                              On 26/11/2012 01:58, Steve Daniels wrote:

                                              I for one would buy James a pint if he arrived in the UK

                                              Now there is a subject I am sure I could give James some education.


                                              73,
                                              Colin
                                              M0XSD.

                                            • Bill Vodall
                                              ... I ll never forget my visit to the Corn Festival in Southern Alberta (Canada) where I was looking forward to a fine local brew or two. Much to my
                                              Message 22 of 24 , Nov 26, 2012
                                              • 0 Attachment
                                                > You are better placed in the country for educating about beer, having
                                                > tasted Canadian beer, I would say Canadian’s in general need educating but
                                                > at least they know what beer is unlike the AmericansJ


                                                I'll never forget my visit to the "Corn Festival" in Southern Alberta
                                                (Canada) where I was looking forward to a fine local brew or two.
                                                Much to my surprise, and dismay, they were proudly serving quality
                                                imported beers - from the US. Sigh - at least the corn was still
                                                fantastic.

                                                Bill
                                              • Steve Daniels
                                                Recommended reading in the UK is the CAMRA good pub guide, which rates Pubs on the quality of the beer, also the pub itself and the food. Colin lives close to
                                                Message 23 of 24 , Nov 26, 2012
                                                • 0 Attachment
                                                  Recommended reading in the UK is the CAMRA good pub guide, which rates Pubs
                                                  on the quality of the beer, also the pub itself and the food.
                                                  Colin lives close to the major brewers in the country although near me ( a
                                                  few hundred yards) is a micro brewery, and also a Cider Farm which produes
                                                  good Scrumpy. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scrumpy

                                                  To keep on topic next QRU project the Good pub guide APRS edition, and GPX,
                                                  would probably be nominated for a Knighthood for that

                                                  Steve Daniels
                                                  Amateur Radio Callsign G6UIM
                                                  Torbay Freecycle Owner
                                                  http://http://uk.groups.yahoo.com/group/torbay_freecycle
                                                  APRSISCE/32 Beta tester and WIKI editor http://aprsisce.wikidot.com


                                                  -----Original Message-----
                                                  From: aprsisce@yahoogroups.com [mailto:aprsisce@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf
                                                  Of Bill Vodall
                                                  Sent: 26 November 2012 22:33
                                                  To: aprsisce@yahoogroups.com
                                                  Subject: Re: [aprsisce] James & personal jabs

                                                  > You are better placed in the country for educating about beer, having
                                                  > tasted Canadian beer, I would say Canadian's in general need educating but
                                                  > at least they know what beer is unlike the AmericansJ


                                                  I'll never forget my visit to the "Corn Festival" in Southern Alberta
                                                  (Canada) where I was looking forward to a fine local brew or two.
                                                  Much to my surprise, and dismay, they were proudly serving quality
                                                  imported beers - from the US. Sigh - at least the corn was still
                                                  fantastic.

                                                  Bill


                                                  ------------------------------------

                                                  Yahoo! Groups Links
                                                • Roger Elmore
                                                  OK Jeff. I did not receive the 2012-11-27 03:55:46 UTC message because it was sent to KJ4AJP, my non-message capable weather station. By the same token, the
                                                  Message 24 of 24 , Nov 27, 2012
                                                  • 0 Attachment

                                                    OK Jeff.  I did not receive the 2012-11-27 03:55:46 UTC message because it was sent to KJ4AJP, my non-message capable weather station.  By the same token, the message you sent to W0PC around the same time didn’t make it to him because you used an alpha O rather than the numeric 0 in his call.

                                                     

                                                    I did not receive your 2012-11-27 05:58:32 UTC message.  I see this packet:

                                                     

                                                    2012-11-27 05:58:32 UTC: KD0TNH>APWW10,N0OTM-15*,WIDE2-1,qAS,KB0WMU:

                                                     

                                                    And I see that message in the “Messages of KJ4AJP-1” on aprs.fi

                                                     

                                                     

                                                    Group, I’ll admit to ignorance here.  http://www.aprs-is.net/q.aspx defines qAS being server-to-server.  Since Jeff had APRS-IS disabled, shouldn’t he be seen as a client and the packet qAR’d by the IGate?

                                                     

                                                     

                                                    My message to Jeff had this packet:

                                                     

                                                    2012-11-26 20:15:44 UTC: KJ4AJP-1>APU25N,WIDE2-2,qAR,KJ4AJP-5:

                                                     

                                                    My message was from a client (not an IGate being used as a client) and was qAR’d by the IGate, and Jeff received the message.  So I’m curious what’s up. 

                                                     

                                                    On-Topic because I’ve seen messages on aprs.fi from nearby WB8SKP, who runs an APRSIS32 IGate, that didn’t make it out my IGate to RF to be received by my clients.  I assume these messages originated from his APRSIS32 IGate station (he can confirm or deny, I know he’s subbed to this group). 

                                                     

                                                    I figure the KJ4AJP-5 IGate is doing its job, but if you think the issue is with that, I’ll take it to the UI-View group.  However, I’m sending messages back and forth from my KJ4AJP-2 iPod to both the KJ4AJP-1 UI-View and KJ4AJP-12 APRSIS32 clients, and on 11/16/12 after I posted my -1 station info in the TH-D72 group (where we originally met Jeff) another D72 user W0KDE out of the blue messaged -1 with his HT saying it was the first chance he had to test his IGate, so we also did a HT-HT QSO through both our IGates – his appears to be UI-View based also.

                                                     

                                                    Any insight?

                                                    --

                                                    Roger  KJ4AJP

                                                     

                                                     

                                                    ***************

                                                    Previously, Roger Elmore wrote:

                                                    Question for the group – Hardware digis are normally set to do a local beacon to RF every 10 minutes and a 2-hop every hour.  Is that controllable (or already taken care of in the XML) in APRSIS32?

                                                     

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