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Radio Connection to Phone?

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  • wb2uti
    I have a Samsung Omnia II Windows Mobile (6.5 Professional) phone that I no longer use as a phone, but it still works just fine and has APRSISCE loaded on it
    Message 1 of 16 , Sep 5, 2012
      I have a Samsung Omnia II Windows Mobile (6.5 Professional) phone that I no longer use as a phone, but it still works just fine and has APRSISCE loaded on it and working. I can run it in wifi mode using my current phone as a 4G hotspot, so I have the ability to operate it most places.

      What I'd like to do, just to keep as many options available to me as possible, is set it up with a radio for RF only use in the event the internet is not available to me.

      I'm hoping I can get some advice here about what physical (or bluetooth) connections are possible for such a phone. I have the feeling that bluetooth may be the answer because the phone has a microUSB connector on it and is intended for use as a USB device which is probably not conducive to wired connections to a radio. What I don't understand is how to configure the radio end with a bluetooth adapter. I have a D72 that I'd like to consider pairing it up with. I also have D7 that could be used.

      Gil, WB2UTI
    • Fred Hillhouse
      Hi Gil, My vehicle system either runs without a head unit, or with a Netbook or a HTC Tilt. It all depends on the trip. When I am using the Tilt I use a BT
      Message 2 of 16 , Sep 5, 2012
        Hi Gil,
         
        My vehicle system either runs without a head unit, or with a Netbook or a HTC Tilt. It all depends on the trip. When I am using the Tilt I use a BT adapter.
         
        The simplest connection is a Bluetooth adapter connected to your TNC/Radio. I have a Roving Networks, RN-240. It is powered by my TNC. There is a different version that has a battery compartment. The solution isn't necessarily cheap but it is handy.
        This unit has a rechargeable battery:
         
        You might find that your particular brand of phone supports USB-OTG. If so, then it will work as a master and you might be able to connect an RS232 adapter and create a wired connection. I have information (links) somewhere that I found.
         
        I was researching for USB-OTG for the HTC Tilt and eventually determined it was not possible. I am looking for a WinMo device with OTG support.
         
        Best regards,
        Fred, N7FMH
         
         

        From: aprsisce@yahoogroups.com [mailto:aprsisce@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of wb2uti
        Sent: Wednesday, September 05, 2012 14:45
        To: aprsisce@yahoogroups.com
        Subject: [aprsisce] Radio Connection to Phone?

         

        I have a Samsung Omnia II Windows Mobile (6.5 Professional) phone that I no longer use as a phone, but it still works just fine and has APRSISCE loaded on it and working. I can run it in wifi mode using my current phone as a 4G hotspot, so I have the ability to operate it most places.

        What I'd like to do, just to keep as many options available to me as possible, is set it up with a radio for RF only use in the event the internet is not available to me.

        I'm hoping I can get some advice here about what physical (or bluetooth) connections are possible for such a phone. I have the feeling that bluetooth may be the answer because the phone has a microUSB connector on it and is intended for use as a USB device which is probably not conducive to wired connections to a radio. What I don't understand is how to configure the radio end with a bluetooth adapter. I have a D72 that I'd like to consider pairing it up with. I also have D7 that could be used.

        Gil, WB2UTI

      • Fred Hillhouse
        This is a cheaper model: http://www.rovingnetworks.com/products/RN_270 _____ From: aprsisce@yahoogroups.com [mailto:aprsisce@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Fred
        Message 3 of 16 , Sep 5, 2012
          This is a cheaper model:
           

           

          From: aprsisce@yahoogroups.com [mailto:aprsisce@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Fred Hillhouse
          Sent: Wednesday, September 05, 2012 15:10
          To: aprsisce@yahoogroups.com
          Subject: RE: [aprsisce] Radio Connection to Phone?

           

          Hi Gil,
           
          My vehicle system either runs without a head unit, or with a Netbook or a HTC Tilt. It all depends on the trip. When I am using the Tilt I use a BT adapter.
           
          The simplest connection is a Bluetooth adapter connected to your TNC/Radio. I have a Roving Networks, RN-240. It is powered by my TNC. There is a different version that has a battery compartment. The solution isn't necessarily cheap but it is handy.
          This unit has a rechargeable battery:
           
          You might find that your particular brand of phone supports USB-OTG. If so, then it will work as a master and you might be able to connect an RS232 adapter and create a wired connection. I have information (links) somewhere that I found.
           
          I was researching for USB-OTG for the HTC Tilt and eventually determined it was not possible. I am looking for a WinMo device with OTG support.
           
          Best regards,
          Fred, N7FMH
           
           

          From: aprsisce@yahoogroups.com [mailto:aprsisce@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of wb2uti
          Sent: Wednesday, September 05, 2012 14:45
          To: aprsisce@yahoogroups.com
          Subject: [aprsisce] Radio Connection to Phone?

           

          I have a Samsung Omnia II Windows Mobile (6.5 Professional) phone that I no longer use as a phone, but it still works just fine and has APRSISCE loaded on it and working. I can run it in wifi mode using my current phone as a 4G hotspot, so I have the ability to operate it most places.

          What I'd like to do, just to keep as many options available to me as possible, is set it up with a radio for RF only use in the event the internet is not available to me.

          I'm hoping I can get some advice here about what physical (or bluetooth) connections are possible for such a phone. I have the feeling that bluetooth may be the answer because the phone has a microUSB connector on it and is intended for use as a USB device which is probably not conducive to wired connections to a radio. What I don't understand is how to configure the radio end with a bluetooth adapter. I have a D72 that I'd like to consider pairing it up with. I also have D7 that could be used.

          Gil, WB2UTI

        • Gil
          Fred, Thanks for that info. The cheaper one actually looks like a better arrangement for what I had in mind since it just runs on AAA batteries which are
          Message 4 of 16 , Sep 6, 2012
            Fred,

            Thanks for that info. The cheaper one actually looks like a better arrangement for what I had in mind since it just runs on AAA batteries which are easily available and replaceable. Rechargeable batteries are nice as long as you have the ability to charge them easily and you don't have to take the unit out of service to get it to a charger.

            So I'd just need a cable from the data jack on the radio to the bluetooth device? Actually, for the D72, I've got to figure out what ports are which. There's a micro USB jack that is used for "pc connection" and programming and another "COM" jack for GPS and external TNC connection. If the internal TNC data is coming out of the micro USB jack, then this may not work and I may have to revert to the D7. Ideally, one cable with micro USB jacks on both ends would be great, but I don't think USB works that way unless, as you said, the phone is a master. How would I be able to find that out?

            Gil, WB2UTI

            --- In aprsisce@yahoogroups.com, "Fred Hillhouse" <fmhillhouse@...> wrote:
            >
            > This is a cheaper model:
            > http://www.rovingnetworks.com/products/RN_270
            >
            >
            >
            >
            > _____
            >
            > From: aprsisce@yahoogroups.com [mailto:aprsisce@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf
            > Of Fred Hillhouse
            > Sent: Wednesday, September 05, 2012 15:10
            > To: aprsisce@yahoogroups.com
            > Subject: RE: [aprsisce] Radio Connection to Phone?
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >
            > Hi Gil,
            >
            > My vehicle system either runs without a head unit, or with a Netbook or a
            > HTC Tilt. It all depends on the trip. When I am using the Tilt I use a BT
            > adapter.
            >
            > The simplest connection is a Bluetooth adapter connected to your TNC/Radio.
            > I have a Roving Networks, RN-240. It is powered by my TNC. There is a
            > different version that has a battery compartment. The solution isn't
            > necessarily cheap but it is handy.
            > This unit has a rechargeable battery:
            > http://www.rovingnetworks.com/products/RN_220XP
            >
            > You might find that your particular brand of phone supports USB-OTG. If so,
            > then it will work as a master and you might be able to connect an RS232
            > adapter and create a wired connection. I have information (links) somewhere
            > that I found.
            >
            > I was researching for USB-OTG for the HTC Tilt and eventually determined it
            > was not possible. I am looking for a WinMo device with OTG support.
            >
            > Best regards,
            > Fred, N7FMH
            >
            >
            > _____
            >
            > From: aprsisce@yahoogroups.com [mailto:aprsisce@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf
            > Of wb2uti
            > Sent: Wednesday, September 05, 2012 14:45
            > To: aprsisce@yahoogroups.com
            > Subject: [aprsisce] Radio Connection to Phone?
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >
            > I have a Samsung Omnia II Windows Mobile (6.5 Professional) phone that I no
            > longer use as a phone, but it still works just fine and has APRSISCE loaded
            > on it and working. I can run it in wifi mode using my current phone as a 4G
            > hotspot, so I have the ability to operate it most places.
            >
            > What I'd like to do, just to keep as many options available to me as
            > possible, is set it up with a radio for RF only use in the event the
            > internet is not available to me.
            >
            > I'm hoping I can get some advice here about what physical (or bluetooth)
            > connections are possible for such a phone. I have the feeling that bluetooth
            > may be the answer because the phone has a microUSB connector on it and is
            > intended for use as a USB device which is probably not conducive to wired
            > connections to a radio. What I don't understand is how to configure the
            > radio end with a bluetooth adapter. I have a D72 that I'd like to consider
            > pairing it up with. I also have D7 that could be used.
            >
            > Gil, WB2UTI
            >
          • ve7mdt
            I m afraid that USB-OTG is a fairly new protocol that came out after the Windows Mobile platform (has sunk). However, on Windows Mobile / Pocket PC, a few
            Message 5 of 16 , Nov 29, 2012
              I'm afraid that USB-OTG is a fairly new protocol that came out after the Windows Mobile platform (has sunk). However, on Windows Mobile / Pocket PC, a few devices have USB Host Mode (either on device or via a expansion dock etc), and in the past, some USB-serial adapters have drivers for Windows Mobile.

              For example, the Toshiba e740, e805 (e800 same), e830 all can do USB Host mode via an adapter / dock. However, none of them is supported by APRSISCE because they can only run older WM, not WM5 that APRSISCE requires. My HTC Advantage also has USB Host Mode via an adapter, but I don't own that adapter so I can't test it.

              Some people manage to find a cheaper BT solution than industrial models (and pricing!), but require a bit more work (testing). It is because RS-232 is rather strange, so various connection methods are possible and adjustments might be needed for it to work in one particular connection method. Things like which side initiates the data, where is it powered from, DTE and DCE distinction, handshaking etc. And then mixing it into the BT part too.

              I wish Kenwood or Yaesu or other manufacturers would simply integrate a BT adapter inside the radio, presenting it as a Serial profile on BT, and so save us all the pain and cumbersome connections, which is so unsightly on an otherwise nice and small handhelds. Would you be able to explain yourself at the airport or a border crossing with all the wires and adapters dangling around in this day and age? No fun.

              That's why I have been reluctant to buy a D72A (or Yaesu counterpart) because they haven't done this yet. Took Kenwood 10 years to integrate a GPSr inside the radio! May be another 10 years to integrate BT. No wonder ham radio is loosing ground to smartphones / internet devices!

              On the other hand, PCs are much easier in this regard, b/c you can get a USB-serial adapter if it doesn't have one, and I think it is hard to find a computer that doesn't have either port.

              I am not sure if I should laugh or cry when I see the post about the "cheaper" model and when going to the site, it is $99. for a BT-serial adapter! It should cost about 1/10 of that price, and I won't pay %100. for such an adapter unless my life depends on it. I looked around and most plug and play (i.e. confirmed to work without much tweaking) cost about $80. or more. It has been like that for the last 5+ years, nothing has changed.

              Can't wait for D73A or whatever it'll be named.

              --- In aprsisce@yahoogroups.com, "Fred Hillhouse" <fmhillhouse@...> wrote:
              >
              > Hi Gil,
              >
              > My vehicle system either runs without a head unit, or with a Netbook or a
              > HTC Tilt. It all depends on the trip. When I am using the Tilt I use a BT
              > adapter.
              >
              > The simplest connection is a Bluetooth adapter connected to your TNC/Radio.
              > I have a Roving Networks, RN-240. It is powered by my TNC. There is a
              > different version that has a battery compartment. The solution isn't
              > necessarily cheap but it is handy.
              > This unit has a rechargeable battery:
              > http://www.rovingnetworks.com/products/RN_220XP
              >
              > You might find that your particular brand of phone supports USB-OTG. If so,
              > then it will work as a master and you might be able to connect an RS232
              > adapter and create a wired connection. I have information (links) somewhere
              > that I found.
              >
              > I was researching for USB-OTG for the HTC Tilt and eventually determined it
              > was not possible. I am looking for a WinMo device with OTG support.
              >
              > Best regards,
              > Fred, N7FMH
              >
              >
              > _____
              >
              > From: aprsisce@yahoogroups.com [mailto:aprsisce@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf
              > Of wb2uti
              > Sent: Wednesday, September 05, 2012 14:45
              > To: aprsisce@yahoogroups.com
              > Subject: [aprsisce] Radio Connection to Phone?
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >
              > I have a Samsung Omnia II Windows Mobile (6.5 Professional) phone that I no
              > longer use as a phone, but it still works just fine and has APRSISCE loaded
              > on it and working. I can run it in wifi mode using my current phone as a 4G
              > hotspot, so I have the ability to operate it most places.
              >
              > What I'd like to do, just to keep as many options available to me as
              > possible, is set it up with a radio for RF only use in the event the
              > internet is not available to me.
              >
              > I'm hoping I can get some advice here about what physical (or bluetooth)
              > connections are possible for such a phone. I have the feeling that bluetooth
              > may be the answer because the phone has a microUSB connector on it and is
              > intended for use as a USB device which is probably not conducive to wired
              > connections to a radio. What I don't understand is how to configure the
              > radio end with a bluetooth adapter. I have a D72 that I'd like to consider
              > pairing it up with. I also have D7 that could be used.
              >
              > Gil, WB2UTI
              >
            • Brian Evans
              Anything that is Bluetooth will have a premium price.  That being said I have built a generic serial to Bluetooth adapter for my FTM-350 and is powered from
              Message 6 of 16 , Nov 29, 2012
                Anything that is Bluetooth will have a premium price.  That being said I have built a generic serial to Bluetooth adapter for my FTM-350 and is powered from the same 12v line.  It works perfectly well with apris32.  I have even used it with connecting other serial devices to my phone.  If there is a demand for them I can build and sell them.  Buying the parts in bulk will help cut the costs of the materials.  I spent ~$40 for all the parts retail.

                Brian
                KJ6ZZY

                --- On Thu, 11/29/12, ve7mdt <ve7mdt@...> wrote:

                From: ve7mdt <ve7mdt@...>
                Subject: [aprsisce] Re: Radio Connection to Phone?
                To: aprsisce@yahoogroups.com
                Date: Thursday, November 29, 2012, 1:25 PM

                 

                I'm afraid that USB-OTG is a fairly new protocol that came out after the Windows Mobile platform (has sunk). However, on Windows Mobile / Pocket PC, a few devices have USB Host Mode (either on device or via a expansion dock etc), and in the past, some USB-serial adapters have drivers for Windows Mobile.

                For example, the Toshiba e740, e805 (e800 same), e830 all can do USB Host mode via an adapter / dock. However, none of them is supported by APRSISCE because they can only run older WM, not WM5 that APRSISCE requires. My HTC Advantage also has USB Host Mode via an adapter, but I don't own that adapter so I can't test it.

                Some people manage to find a cheaper BT solution than industrial models (and pricing!), but require a bit more work (testing). It is because RS-232 is rather strange, so various connection methods are possible and adjustments might be needed for it to work in one particular connection method. Things like which side initiates the data, where is it powered from, DTE and DCE distinction, handshaking etc. And then mixing it into the BT part too.

                I wish Kenwood or Yaesu or other manufacturers would simply integrate a BT adapter inside the radio, presenting it as a Serial profile on BT, and so save us all the pain and cumbersome connections, which is so unsightly on an otherwise nice and small handhelds. Would you be able to explain yourself at the airport or a border crossing with all the wires and adapters dangling around in this day and age? No fun.

                That's why I have been reluctant to buy a D72A (or Yaesu counterpart) because they haven't done this yet. Took Kenwood 10 years to integrate a GPSr inside the radio! May be another 10 years to integrate BT. No wonder ham radio is loosing ground to smartphones / internet devices!

                On the other hand, PCs are much easier in this regard, b/c you can get a USB-serial adapter if it doesn't have one, and I think it is hard to find a computer that doesn't have either port.

                I am not sure if I should laugh or cry when I see the post about the "cheaper" model and when going to the site, it is $99. for a BT-serial adapter! It should cost about 1/10 of that price, and I won't pay %100. for such an adapter unless my life depends on it. I looked around and most plug and play (i.e. confirmed to work without much tweaking) cost about $80. or more. It has been like that for the last 5+ years, nothing has changed.

                Can't wait for D73A or whatever it'll be named.

                --- In aprsisce@yahoogroups.com, "Fred Hillhouse" <fmhillhouse@...> wrote:
                >
                > Hi Gil,
                >
                > My vehicle system either runs without a head unit, or with a Netbook or a
                > HTC Tilt. It all depends on the trip. When I am using the Tilt I use a BT
                > adapter.
                >
                > The simplest connection is a Bluetooth adapter connected to your TNC/Radio.
                > I have a Roving Networks, RN-240. It is powered by my TNC. There is a
                > different version that has a battery compartment. The solution isn't
                > necessarily cheap but it is handy.
                > This unit has a rechargeable battery:
                > http://www.rovingnetworks.com/products/RN_220XP
                >
                > You might find that your particular brand of phone supports USB-OTG. If so,
                > then it will work as a master and you might be able to connect an RS232
                > adapter and create a wired connection. I have information (links) somewhere
                > that I found.
                >
                > I was researching for USB-OTG for the HTC Tilt and eventually determined it
                > was not possible. I am looking for a WinMo device with OTG support.
                >
                > Best regards,
                > Fred, N7FMH
                >
                >
                > _____
                >
                > From: aprsisce@yahoogroups.com [mailto:aprsisce@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf
                > Of wb2uti
                > Sent: Wednesday, September 05, 2012 14:45
                > To: aprsisce@yahoogroups.com
                > Subject: [aprsisce] Radio Connection to Phone?
                >
                >
                >
                >
                >
                > I have a Samsung Omnia II Windows Mobile (6.5 Professional) phone that I no
                > longer use as a phone, but it still works just fine and has APRSISCE loaded
                > on it and working. I can run it in wifi mode using my current phone as a 4G
                > hotspot, so I have the ability to operate it most places.
                >
                > What I'd like to do, just to keep as many options available to me as
                > possible, is set it up with a radio for RF only use in the event the
                > internet is not available to me.
                >
                > I'm hoping I can get some advice here about what physical (or bluetooth)
                > connections are possible for such a phone. I have the feeling that bluetooth
                > may be the answer because the phone has a microUSB connector on it and is
                > intended for use as a USB device which is probably not conducive to wired
                > connections to a radio. What I don't understand is how to configure the
                > radio end with a bluetooth adapter. I have a D72 that I'd like to consider
                > pairing it up with. I also have D7 that could be used.
                >
                > Gil, WB2UTI
                >

              • Rob Giuliano
                Radio side typically comes out as serial data at low levels (such as TTL).  This type of serial to bluetooth are all over Arduino type website.    
                Message 7 of 16 , Nov 29, 2012
                  Radio side typically comes out as serial data at low levels (such as TTL).  This type of serial to bluetooth are all over Arduino type website. 
                     Sparkfun has one that I've used with my TT4 (Blue tooth Mate Silver)
                     Setup was easier than configuring the TT4 with a terminal program
                     About $40, not too expensive.  Buy the module without he adaptor board if you can deal with the power and soldering.
                   
                  Other vendors have similar and there are varying range capability by more expensive products.
                   
                  Robert Giuliano
                  KB8RCO


                  ---------------------------------------------
                  From: ve7mdt <ve7mdt@...>
                  To: aprsisce@yahoogroups.com
                  Sent: Thursday, November 29, 2012 4:25 PM
                  Subject: [aprsisce] Re: Radio Connection to Phone?
                   
                  I'm afraid that USB-OTG is a fairly new protocol that came out after the Windows Mobile platform (has sunk). However, on Windows Mobile / Pocket PC, a few devices have USB Host Mode (either on device or via a expansion dock etc), and in the past, some USB-serial adapters have drivers for Windows Mobile.

                  For example, the Toshiba e740, e805 (e800 same), e830 all can do USB Host mode via an adapter / dock. However, none of them is supported by APRSISCE because they can only run older WM, not WM5 that APRSISCE requires. My HTC Advantage also has USB Host Mode via an adapter, but I don't own that adapter so I can't test it.

                  Some people manage to find a cheaper BT solution than industrial models (and pricing!), but require a bit more work (testing). It is because RS-232 is rather strange, so various connection methods are possible and adjustments might be needed for it to work in one particular connection method. Things like which side initiates the data, where is it powered from, DTE and DCE distinction, handshaking etc. And then mixing it into the BT part too.

                  I wish Kenwood or Yaesu or other manufacturers would simply integrate a BT adapter inside the radio, presenting it as a Serial profile on BT, and so save us all the pain and cumbersome connections, which is so unsightly on an otherwise nice and small handhelds. Would you be able to explain yourself at the airport or a border crossing with all the wires and adapters dangling around in this day and age? No fun.

                  That's why I have been reluctant to buy a D72A (or Yaesu counterpart) because they haven't done this yet. Took Kenwood 10 years to integrate a GPSr inside the radio! May be another 10 years to integrate BT. No wonder ham radio is loosing ground to smartphones / internet devices!

                  On the other hand, PCs are much easier in this regard, b/c you can get a USB-serial adapter if it doesn't have one, and I think it is hard to find a computer that doesn't have either port.

                  I am not sure if I should laugh or cry when I see the post about the "cheaper" model and when going to the site, it is $99. for a BT-serial adapter! It should cost about 1/10 of that price, and I won't pay %100. for such an adapter unless my life depends on it. I looked around and most plug and play (i.e. confirmed to work without much tweaking) cost about $80. or more. It has been like that for the last 5+ years, nothing has changed.

                  Can't wait for D73A or whatever it'll be named.

                  --- In mailto:aprsisce%40yahoogroups.com, "Fred Hillhouse" <fmhillhouse@...> wrote:
                  >
                  > Hi Gil,
                  >
                  > My vehicle system either runs without a head unit, or with a Netbook or a
                  > HTC Tilt. It all depends on the trip. When I am using the Tilt I use a BT
                  > adapter.
                  >
                  > The simplest connection is a Bluetooth adapter connected to your TNC/Radio.
                  > I have a Roving Networks, RN-240. It is powered by my TNC. There is a
                  > different version that has a battery compartment. The solution isn't
                  > necessarily cheap but it is handy.
                  > This unit has a rechargeable battery:
                  > http://www.rovingnetworks.com/products/RN_220XP
                  >
                  > You might find that your particular brand of phone supports USB-OTG. If so,
                  > then it will work as a master and you might be able to connect an RS232
                  > adapter and create a wired connection. I have information (links) somewhere
                  > that I found.
                  >
                  > I was researching for USB-OTG for the HTC Tilt and eventually determined it
                  > was not possible. I am looking for a WinMo device with OTG support.
                  >
                  > Best regards,
                  > Fred, N7FMH
                  >
                  >
                  > _____
                  >
                  > From: mailto:aprsisce%40yahoogroups.com [mailto:mailto:aprsisce%40yahoogroups.com] On Behalf
                  > Of wb2uti
                  > Sent: Wednesday, September 05, 2012 14:45
                  > To: mailto:aprsisce%40yahoogroups.com
                  > Subject: [aprsisce] Radio Connection to Phone?
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  > I have a Samsung Omnia II Windows Mobile (6.5 Professional) phone that I no
                  > longer use as a phone, but it still works just fine and has APRSISCE loaded
                  > on it and working. I can run it in wifi mode using my current phone as a 4G
                  > hotspot, so I have the ability to operate it most places.
                  >
                  > What I'd like to do, just to keep as many options available to me as
                  > possible, is set it up with a radio for RF only use in the event the
                  > internet is not available to me.
                  >
                  > I'm hoping I can get some advice here about what physical (or bluetooth)
                  > connections are possible for such a phone. I have the feeling that bluetooth
                  > may be the answer because the phone has a microUSB connector on it and is
                  > intended for use as a USB device which is probably not conducive to wired
                  > connections to a radio. What I don't understand is how to configure the
                  > radio end with a bluetooth adapter. I have a D72 that I'd like to consider
                  > pairing it up with. I also have D7 that could be used.
                  >
                  > Gil, WB2UTI
                  >

                • Brian Evans
                  Every BT module I have found talks TTL(including the Blue tooth Mate Silver) however RS-232 signals are not compatible with TTL signals.  You will need a
                  Message 8 of 16 , Nov 30, 2012
                    Every BT module I have found talks TTL(including the Blue tooth Mate Silver) however RS-232 signals are not compatible with TTL signals.  You will need a RS-232 to TTL converter to connect the BT module to the RS-232 port out of any radio.

                    Brian
                    KJ6ZZY

                    --- On Thu, 11/29/12, Rob Giuliano <kb8rco@...> wrote:

                    From: Rob Giuliano <kb8rco@...>
                    Subject: Re: [aprsisce] Re: Radio Connection to Phone?
                    To: "aprsisce@yahoogroups.com" <aprsisce@yahoogroups.com>
                    Date: Thursday, November 29, 2012, 6:25 PM

                     

                    Radio side typically comes out as serial data at low levels (such as TTL).  This type of serial to bluetooth are all over Arduino type website. 
                       Sparkfun has one that I've used with my TT4 (Blue tooth Mate Silver)
                       Setup was easier than configuring the TT4 with a terminal program
                       About $40, not too expensive.  Buy the module without he adaptor board if you can deal with the power and soldering.
                     
                    Other vendors have similar and there are varying range capability by more expensive products.
                     
                    Robert Giuliano
                    KB8RCO


                    ---------------------------------------------
                    From: ve7mdt <ve7mdt@...>
                    To: aprsisce@yahoogroups.com
                    Sent: Thursday, November 29, 2012 4:25 PM
                    Subject: [aprsisce] Re: Radio Connection to Phone?
                     
                    I'm afraid that USB-OTG is a fairly new protocol that came out after the Windows Mobile platform (has sunk). However, on Windows Mobile / Pocket PC, a few devices have USB Host Mode (either on device or via a expansion dock etc), and in the past, some USB-serial adapters have drivers for Windows Mobile.

                    For example, the Toshiba e740, e805 (e800 same), e830 all can do USB Host mode via an adapter / dock. However, none of them is supported by APRSISCE because they can only run older WM, not WM5 that APRSISCE requires. My HTC Advantage also has USB Host Mode via an adapter, but I don't own that adapter so I can't test it.

                    Some people manage to find a cheaper BT solution than industrial models (and pricing!), but require a bit more work (testing). It is because RS-232 is rather strange, so various connection methods are possible and adjustments might be needed for it to work in one particular connection method. Things like which side initiates the data, where is it powered from, DTE and DCE distinction, handshaking etc. And then mixing it into the BT part too.

                    I wish Kenwood or Yaesu or other manufacturers would simply integrate a BT adapter inside the radio, presenting it as a Serial profile on BT, and so save us all the pain and cumbersome connections, which is so unsightly on an otherwise nice and small handhelds. Would you be able to explain yourself at the airport or a border crossing with all the wires and adapters dangling around in this day and age? No fun.

                    That's why I have been reluctant to buy a D72A (or Yaesu counterpart) because they haven't done this yet. Took Kenwood 10 years to integrate a GPSr inside the radio! May be another 10 years to integrate BT. No wonder ham radio is loosing ground to smartphones / internet devices!

                    On the other hand, PCs are much easier in this regard, b/c you can get a USB-serial adapter if it doesn't have one, and I think it is hard to find a computer that doesn't have either port.

                    I am not sure if I should laugh or cry when I see the post about the "cheaper" model and when going to the site, it is $99. for a BT-serial adapter! It should cost about 1/10 of that price, and I won't pay %100. for such an adapter unless my life depends on it. I looked around and most plug and play (i.e. confirmed to work without much tweaking) cost about $80. or more. It has been like that for the last 5+ years, nothing has changed.

                    Can't wait for D73A or whatever it'll be named.

                    --- In mailto:aprsisce%40yahoogroups.com, "Fred Hillhouse" <fmhillhouse@...> wrote:
                    >
                    > Hi Gil,
                    >
                    > My vehicle system either runs without a head unit, or with a Netbook or a
                    > HTC Tilt. It all depends on the trip. When I am using the Tilt I use a BT
                    > adapter.
                    >
                    > The simplest connection is a Bluetooth adapter connected to your TNC/Radio.
                    > I have a Roving Networks, RN-240. It is powered by my TNC. There is a
                    > different version that has a battery compartment. The solution isn't
                    > necessarily cheap but it is handy.
                    > This unit has a rechargeable battery:
                    > http://www.rovingnetworks.com/products/RN_220XP
                    >
                    > You might find that your particular brand of phone supports USB-OTG. If so,
                    > then it will work as a master and you might be able to connect an RS232
                    > adapter and create a wired connection. I have information (links) somewhere
                    > that I found.
                    >
                    > I was researching for USB-OTG for the HTC Tilt and eventually determined it
                    > was not possible. I am looking for a WinMo device with OTG support.
                    >
                    > Best regards,
                    > Fred, N7FMH
                    >
                    >
                    > _____
                    >
                    > From: mailto:aprsisce%40yahoogroups.com [mailto:mailto:aprsisce%40yahoogroups.com] On Behalf
                    > Of wb2uti
                    > Sent: Wednesday, September 05, 2012 14:45
                    > To: mailto:aprsisce%40yahoogroups.com
                    > Subject: [aprsisce] Radio Connection to Phone?
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    > I have a Samsung Omnia II Windows Mobile (6.5 Professional) phone that I no
                    > longer use as a phone, but it still works just fine and has APRSISCE loaded
                    > on it and working. I can run it in wifi mode using my current phone as a 4G
                    > hotspot, so I have the ability to operate it most places.
                    >
                    > What I'd like to do, just to keep as many options available to me as
                    > possible, is set it up with a radio for RF only use in the event the
                    > internet is not available to me.
                    >
                    > I'm hoping I can get some advice here about what physical (or bluetooth)
                    > connections are possible for such a phone. I have the feeling that bluetooth
                    > may be the answer because the phone has a microUSB connector on it and is
                    > intended for use as a USB device which is probably not conducive to wired
                    > connections to a radio. What I don't understand is how to configure the
                    > radio end with a bluetooth adapter. I have a D72 that I'd like to consider
                    > pairing it up with. I also have D7 that could be used.
                    >
                    > Gil, WB2UTI
                    >

                  • Rob Giuliano
                    Yes, the BT module is ONLY compatable with TTL levels and before using such a module, you will need to verify the levels   The Kenwood manual for the D72A
                    Message 9 of 16 , Nov 30, 2012
                      Yes, the BT module is ONLY compatable with TTL levels and before using such a module, you will need to verify the levels
                       
                      The Kenwood manual for the D72A states on page APRS-2
                        "[Low level : less than +0.5 volts / High level: more than +3.0 volts]
                          You cannot use GPS receivers with USB-Type connections."
                       
                      This is NOT RS-232C, but is TTL compatable. 
                      I know of at least 1 person locally that uses a D72a and a TTL bluetooth adaptor.
                       
                      AGAIN - IT CAN'T BE STRESS ENOUGH - CHECK THE LEVELS of your radio before connecting
                       
                      Robert Giuliano
                      KB8RCO


                      ---------------------------------------------
                      From: Brian Evans <speedyguru2000@...>
                      To: aprsisce@yahoogroups.com
                      Sent: Friday, November 30, 2012 4:30 AM
                      Subject: Re: [aprsisce] Re: Radio Connection to Phone?
                       
                      Every BT module I have found talks TTL(including the Blue tooth Mate Silver) however RS-232 signals are not compatible with TTL signals.  You will need a RS-232 to TTL converter to connect the BT module to the RS-232 port out of any radio.

                      Brian
                      KJ6ZZY

                      --- On Thu, 11/29/12, Rob Giuliano <kb8rco@...> wrote:

                      From: Rob Giuliano <kb8rco@...>
                      Subject: Re: [aprsisce] Re: Radio Connection to Phone?
                      To: "aprsisce@yahoogroups.com" <aprsisce@yahoogroups.com>
                      Date: Thursday, November 29, 2012, 6:25 PM

                       
                      Radio side typically comes out as serial data at low levels (such as TTL).  This type of serial to bluetooth are all over Arduino type website. 
                         Sparkfun has one that I've used with my TT4 (Blue tooth Mate Silver)
                         Setup was easier than configuring the TT4 with a terminal program
                         About $40, not too expensive.  Buy the module without he adaptor board if you can deal with the power and soldering.
                       
                      Other vendors have similar and there are varying range capability by more expensive products.
                       
                      Robert Giuliano KB8RCO
                      ---------------------------------------------
                      From: ve7mdt <ve7mdt@...>
                      To: aprsisce@yahoogroups.com
                      Sent: Thursday, November 29, 2012 4:25 PM
                      Subject: [aprsisce] Re: Radio Connection to Phone?
                       
                      I'm afraid that USB-OTG is a fairly new protocol that came out after the Windows Mobile platform (has sunk). However, on Windows Mobile / Pocket PC, a few devices have USB Host Mode (either on device or via a expansion dock etc), and in the past, some USB-serial adapters have drivers for Windows Mobile. For example, the Toshiba e740, e805 (e800 same), e830 all can do USB Host mode via an adapter / dock. However, none of them is supported by APRSISCE because they can only run older WM, not WM5 that APRSISCE requires. My HTC Advantage also has USB Host Mode via an adapter, but I don't own that adapter so I can't test it. Some people manage to find a cheaper BT solution than industrial models (and pricing!), but require a bit more work (testing). It is because RS-232 is rather strange, so various connection methods are possible and adjustments might be needed for it to work in one particular connection method. Things like which side initiates the data, where is it powered from, DTE and DCE distinction, handshaking etc. And then mixing it into the BT part too. I wish Kenwood or Yaesu or other manufacturers would simply integrate a BT adapter inside the radio, presenting it as a Serial profile on BT, and so save us all the pain and cumbersome connections, which is so unsightly on an otherwise nice and small handhelds. Would you be able to explain yourself at the airport or a border crossing with all the wires and adapters dangling around in this day and age? No fun. That's why I have been reluctant to buy a D72A (or Yaesu counterpart) because they haven't done this yet. Took Kenwood 10 years to integrate a GPSr inside the radio! May be another 10 years to integrate BT. No wonder ham radio is loosing ground to smartphones / internet devices! On the other hand, PCs are much easier in this regard, b/c you can get a USB-serial adapter if it doesn't have one, and I think it is hard to find a computer that doesn't have either port. I am not sure if I should laugh or cry when I see the post about the "cheaper" model and when going to the site, it is $99. for a BT-serial adapter! It should cost about 1/10 of that price, and I won't pay %100. for such an adapter unless my life depends on it. I looked around and most plug and play (i.e. confirmed to work without much tweaking) cost about $80. or more. It has been like that for the last 5+ years, nothing has changed. Can't wait for D73A or whatever it'll be named. --- In mailto:aprsisce%40yahoogroups.com, "Fred Hillhouse" <fmhillhouse@...> wrote: > > Hi Gil, > > My vehicle system either runs without a head unit, or with a Netbook or a > HTC Tilt. It all depends on the trip. When I am using the Tilt I use a BT > adapter. > > The simplest connection is a Bluetooth adapter connected to your TNC/Radio. > I have a Roving Networks, RN-240. It is powered by my TNC. There is a > different version that has a battery compartment. The solution isn't > necessarily cheap but it is handy. > This unit has a rechargeable battery: > http://www.rovingnetworks.com/products/RN_220XP > > You might find that your particular brand of phone supports USB-OTG. If so, > then it will work as a master and you might be able to connect an RS232 > adapter and create a wired connection. I have information (links) somewhere > that I found. > > I was researching for USB-OTG for the HTC Tilt and eventually determined it > was not possible. I am looking for a WinMo device with OTG support. > > Best regards, > Fred, N7FMH > > > _____ > > From: mailto:aprsisce%40yahoogroups.com [mailto:mailto:aprsisce%40yahoogroups.com] On Behalf > Of wb2uti > Sent: Wednesday, September 05, 2012 14:45 > To: mailto:aprsisce%40yahoogroups.com > Subject: [aprsisce] Radio Connection to Phone? > > > > > > I have a Samsung Omnia II Windows Mobile (6.5 Professional) phone that I no > longer use as a phone, but it still works just fine and has APRSISCE loaded > on it and working. I can run it in wifi mode using my current phone as a 4G > hotspot, so I have the ability to operate it most places. > > What I'd like to do, just to keep as many options available to me as > possible, is set it up with a radio for RF only use in the event the > internet is not available to me. > > I'm hoping I can get some advice here about what physical (or bluetooth) > connections are possible for such a phone. I have the feeling that bluetooth > may be the answer because the phone has a microUSB connector on it and is > intended for use as a USB device which is probably not conducive to wired > connections to a radio. What I don't understand is how to configure the > radio end with a bluetooth adapter. I have a D72 that I'd like to consider > pairing it up with. I also have D7 that could be used. > > Gil, WB2UTI >
                    • Lynn W Deffenbaugh (Mr)
                      It s not just the voltage levels, but isn t TTL RS-232 inverted from +/-15v RS-232? (But then, I m primarily a software guy and this is a hardware question)
                      Message 10 of 16 , Nov 30, 2012
                        It's not just the voltage levels, but isn't TTL RS-232 inverted from +/-15v RS-232?  (But then, I'm primarily a software guy and this is a hardware question)

                        Lynn (D) - KJ4ERJ - Author of APRSISCE for Windows Mobile and Win32

                        On 11/30/2012 11:59 AM, Rob Giuliano wrote:
                        Yes, the BT module is ONLY compatable with TTL levels and before using such a module, you will need to verify the levels
                         
                        The Kenwood manual for the D72A states on page APRS-2
                          "[Low level : less than +0.5 volts / High level: more than +3.0 volts]
                            You cannot use GPS receivers with USB-Type connections."
                         
                        This is NOT RS-232C, but is TTL compatable. 
                        I know of at least 1 person locally that uses a D72a and a TTL bluetooth adaptor.
                         
                        AGAIN - IT CAN'T BE STRESS ENOUGH - CHECK THE LEVELS of your radio before connecting
                         
                        Robert Giuliano
                        KB8RCO


                        ---------------------------------------------
                        From: Brian Evans <speedyguru2000@...>
                        To: aprsisce@yahoogroups.com
                        Sent: Friday, November 30, 2012 4:30 AM
                        Subject: Re: [aprsisce] Re: Radio Connection to Phone?
                         
                        Every BT module I have found talks TTL(including the Blue tooth Mate Silver) however RS-232 signals are not compatible with TTL signals.  You will need a RS-232 to TTL converter to connect the BT module to the RS-232 port out of any radio.

                        Brian
                        KJ6ZZY

                        --- On Thu, 11/29/12, Rob Giuliano <kb8rco@...> wrote:

                        From: Rob Giuliano <kb8rco@...>
                        Subject: Re: [aprsisce] Re: Radio Connection to Phone?
                        To: "aprsisce@yahoogroups.com" <aprsisce@yahoogroups.com>
                        Date: Thursday, November 29, 2012, 6:25 PM

                         
                        Radio side typically comes out as serial data at low levels (such as TTL).  This type of serial to bluetooth are all over Arduino type website. 
                           Sparkfun has one that I've used with my TT4 (Blue tooth Mate Silver)
                           Setup was easier than configuring the TT4 with a terminal program
                           About $40, not too expensive.  Buy the module without he adaptor board if you can deal with the power and soldering.
                         
                        Other vendors have similar and there are varying range capability by more expensive products.
                         
                        Robert Giuliano KB8RCO
                        ---------------------------------------------
                        From: ve7mdt <ve7mdt@...>
                        To: aprsisce@yahoogroups.com
                        Sent: Thursday, November 29, 2012 4:25 PM
                        Subject: [aprsisce] Re: Radio Connection to Phone?
                         
                        I'm afraid that USB-OTG is a fairly new protocol that came out after the Windows Mobile platform (has sunk). However, on Windows Mobile / Pocket PC, a few devices have USB Host Mode (either on device or via a expansion dock etc), and in the past, some USB-serial adapters have drivers for Windows Mobile. For example, the Toshiba e740, e805 (e800 same), e830 all can do USB Host mode via an adapter / dock. However, none of them is supported by APRSISCE because they can only run older WM, not WM5 that APRSISCE requires. My HTC Advantage also has USB Host Mode via an adapter, but I don't own that adapter so I can't test it. Some people manage to find a cheaper BT solution than industrial models (and pricing!), but require a bit more work (testing). It is because RS-232 is rather strange, so various connection methods are possible and adjustments might be needed for it to work in one particular connection method. Things like which side initiates the data, where is it powered from, DTE and DCE distinction, handshaking etc. And then mixing it into the BT part too. I wish Kenwood or Yaesu or other manufacturers would simply integrate a BT adapter inside the radio, presenting it as a Serial profile on BT, and so save us all the pain and cumbersome connections, which is so unsightly on an otherwise nice and small handhelds. Would you be able to explain yourself at the airport or a border crossing with all the wires and adapters dangling around in this day and age? No fun. That's why I have been reluctant to buy a D72A (or Yaesu counterpart) because they haven't done this yet. Took Kenwood 10 years to integrate a GPSr inside the radio! May be another 10 years to integrate BT. No wonder ham radio is loosing ground to smartphones / internet devices! On the other hand, PCs are much easier in this regard, b/c you can get a USB-serial adapter if it doesn't have one, and I think it is hard to find a computer that doesn't have either port. I am not sure if I should laugh or cry when I see the post about the "cheaper" model and when going to the site, it is $99. for a BT-serial adapter! It should cost about 1/10 of that price, and I won't pay %100. for such an adapter unless my life depends on it. I looked around and most plug and play (i.e. confirmed to work without much tweaking) cost about $80. or more. It has been like that for the last 5+ years, nothing has changed. Can't wait for D73A or whatever it'll be named. --- In mailto:aprsisce%40yahoogroups.com, "Fred Hillhouse" <fmhillhouse@...> wrote: > > Hi Gil, > > My vehicle system either runs without a head unit, or with a Netbook or a > HTC Tilt. It all depends on the trip. When I am using the Tilt I use a BT > adapter. > > The simplest connection is a Bluetooth adapter connected to your TNC/Radio. > I have a Roving Networks, RN-240. It is powered by my TNC. There is a > different version that has a battery compartment. The solution isn't > necessarily cheap but it is handy. > This unit has a rechargeable battery: > http://www.rovingnetworks.com/products/RN_220XP > > You might find that your particular brand of phone supports USB-OTG. If so, > then it will work as a master and you might be able to connect an RS232 > adapter and create a wired connection. I have information (links) somewhere > that I found. > > I was researching for USB-OTG for the HTC Tilt and eventually determined it > was not possible. I am looking for a WinMo device with OTG support. > > Best regards, > Fred, N7FMH > > > _____ > > From: mailto:aprsisce%40yahoogroups.com [mailto:mailto:aprsisce%40yahoogroups.com] On Behalf > Of wb2uti > Sent: Wednesday, September 05, 2012 14:45 > To: mailto:aprsisce%40yahoogroups.com > Subject: [aprsisce] Radio Connection to Phone? > > > > > > I have a Samsung Omnia II Windows Mobile (6.5 Professional) phone that I no > longer use as a phone, but it still works just fine and has APRSISCE loaded > on it and working. I can run it in wifi mode using my current phone as a 4G > hotspot, so I have the ability to operate it most places. > > What I'd like to do, just to keep as many options available to me as > possible, is set it up with a radio for RF only use in the event the > internet is not available to me. > > I'm hoping I can get some advice here about what physical (or bluetooth) > connections are possible for such a phone. I have the feeling that bluetooth > may be the answer because the phone has a microUSB connector on it and is > intended for use as a USB device which is probably not conducive to wired > connections to a radio. What I don't understand is how to configure the > radio end with a bluetooth adapter. I have a D72 that I'd like to consider > pairing it up with. I also have D7 that could be used. > > Gil, WB2UTI >

                      • john Beatty
                        You can make a nifty little TTL to RS232 adapter with a MAX 232 IC and a few caps. I ve made a bunch of these for various projects. Hope this is applicable.
                        Message 11 of 16 , Nov 30, 2012
                          You can make a nifty little TTL to RS232 adapter with a MAX 232 IC and a few caps.
                          I've made a bunch of these for various projects.
                          Hope this is applicable.
                          J.B.
                           
                          Credo Quia Absurdum Est
                          Credo Ut Intelligam



                          From: Rob Giuliano <kb8rco@...>
                          To: "aprsisce@yahoogroups.com" <aprsisce@yahoogroups.com>
                          Sent: Fri, November 30, 2012 9:00:01 AM
                          Subject: Re: [aprsisce] Re: Radio Connection to Phone?

                           

                          Yes, the BT module is ONLY compatable with TTL levels and before using such a module, you will need to verify the levels
                           
                          The Kenwood manual for the D72A states on page APRS-2
                            "[Low level : less than +0.5 volts / High level: more than +3.0 volts]
                              You cannot use GPS receivers with USB-Type connections."
                           
                          This is NOT RS-232C, but is TTL compatable. 
                          I know of at least 1 person locally that uses a D72a and a TTL bluetooth adaptor.
                           
                          AGAIN - IT CAN'T BE STRESS ENOUGH - CHECK THE LEVELS of your radio before connecting
                           
                          Robert Giuliano
                          KB8RCO


                          ---------------------------------------------
                          From: Brian Evans <speedyguru2000@...>
                          To: aprsisce@yahoogroups.com
                          Sent: Friday, November 30, 2012 4:30 AM
                          Subject: Re: [aprsisce] Re: Radio Connection to Phone?
                           
                          Every BT module I have found talks TTL(including the Blue tooth Mate Silver) however RS-232 signals are not compatible with TTL signals.  You will need a RS-232 to TTL converter to connect the BT module to the RS-232 port out of any radio.

                          Brian
                          KJ6ZZY

                          --- On Thu, 11/29/12, Rob Giuliano <kb8rco@...> wrote:

                          From: Rob Giuliano <kb8rco@...>
                          Subject: Re: [aprsisce] Re: Radio Connection to Phone?
                          To: "aprsisce@yahoogroups.com" <aprsisce@yahoogroups.com>
                          Date: Thursday, November 29, 2012, 6:25 PM

                           
                          Radio side typically comes out as serial data at low levels (such as TTL).  This type of serial to bluetooth are all over Arduino type website. 
                             Sparkfun has one that I've used with my TT4 (Blue tooth Mate Silver)
                             Setup was easier than configuring the TT4 with a terminal program
                             About $40, not too expensive.  Buy the module without he adaptor board if you can deal with the power and soldering.
                           
                          Other vendors have similar and there are varying range capability by more expensive products.
                           
                          Robert Giuliano KB8RCO
                          ---------------------------------------------
                          From: ve7mdt <ve7mdt@...>
                          To: aprsisce@yahoogroups.com
                          Sent: Thursday, November 29, 2012 4:25 PM
                          Subject: [aprsisce] Re: Radio Connection to Phone?
                           
                          I'm afraid that USB-OTG is a fairly new protocol that came out after the Windows Mobile platform (has sunk). However, on Windows Mobile / Pocket PC, a few devices have USB Host Mode (either on device or via a expansion dock etc), and in the past, some USB-serial adapters have drivers for Windows Mobile. For example, the Toshiba e740, e805 (e800 same), e830 all can do USB Host mode via an adapter / dock. However, none of them is supported by APRSISCE because they can only run older WM, not WM5 that APRSISCE requires. My HTC Advantage also has USB Host Mode via an adapter, but I don't own that adapter so I can't test it. Some people manage to find a cheaper BT solution than industrial models (and pricing!), but require a bit more work (testing). It is because RS-232 is rather strange, so various connection methods are possible and adjustments might be needed for it to work in one particular connection method. Things like which side initiates the data, where is it powered from, DTE and DCE distinction, handshaking etc. And then mixing it into the BT part too. I wish Kenwood or Yaesu or other manufacturers would simply integrate a BT adapter inside the radio, presenting it as a Serial profile on BT, and so save us all the pain and cumbersome connections, which is so unsightly on an otherwise nice and small handhelds. Would you be able to explain yourself at the airport or a border crossing with all the wires and adapters dangling around in this day and age? No fun. That's why I have been reluctant to buy a D72A (or Yaesu counterpart) because they haven't done this yet. Took Kenwood 10 years to integrate a GPSr inside the radio! May be another 10 years to integrate BT. No wonder ham radio is loosing ground to smartphones / internet devices! On the other hand, PCs are much easier in this regard, b/c you can get a USB-serial adapter if it doesn't have one, and I think it is hard to find a computer that doesn't have either port. I am not sure if I should laugh or cry when I see the post about the "cheaper" model and when going to the site, it is $99. for a BT-serial adapter! It should cost about 1/10 of that price, and I won't pay %100. for such an adapter unless my life depends on it. I looked around and most plug and play (i.e. confirmed to work without much tweaking) cost about $80. or more. It has been like that for the last 5+ years, nothing has changed. Can't wait for D73A or whatever it'll be named. --- In mailto:aprsisce%40yahoogroups.com, "Fred Hillhouse" wrote: > > Hi Gil, > > My vehicle system either runs without a head unit, or with a Netbook or a > HTC Tilt. It all depends on the trip. When I am using the Tilt I use a BT > adapter. > > The simplest connection is a Bluetooth adapter connected to your TNC/Radio. > I have a Roving Networks, RN-240. It is powered by my TNC. There is a > different version that has a battery compartment. The solution isn't > necessarily cheap but it is handy. > This unit has a rechargeable battery: > http://www.rovingnetworks.com/products/RN_220XP > > You might find that your particular brand of phone supports USB-OTG. If so, > then it will work as a master and you might be able to connect an RS232 > adapter and create a wired connection. I have information (links) somewhere > that I found. > > I was researching for USB-OTG for the HTC Tilt and eventually determined it > was not possible. I am looking for a WinMo device with OTG support. > > Best regards, > Fred, N7FMH > > > _____ > > From: mailto:aprsisce%40yahoogroups.com [mailto:mailto:aprsisce%40yahoogroups.com] On Behalf > Of wb2uti > Sent: Wednesday, September 05, 2012 14:45 > To: mailto:aprsisce%40yahoogroups.com > Subject: [aprsisce] Radio Connection to Phone? > > > > > > I have a Samsung Omnia II Windows Mobile (6.5 Professional) phone that I no > longer use as a phone, but it still works just fine and has APRSISCE loaded > on it and working. I can run it in wifi mode using my current phone as a 4G > hotspot, so I have the ability to operate it most places. > > What I'd like to do, just to keep as many options available to me as > possible, is set it up with a radio for RF only use in the event the > internet is not available to me. > > I'm hoping I can get some advice here about what physical (or bluetooth) > connections are possible for such a phone. I have the feeling that bluetooth > may be the answer because the phone has a microUSB connector on it and is > intended for use as a USB device which is probably not conducive to wired > connections to a radio. What I don't understand is how to configure the > radio end with a bluetooth adapter. I have a D72 that I'd like to consider > pairing it up with. I also have D7 that could be used. > > Gil, WB2UTI >
                        • Rob Giuliano
                          Yes, TTL is inverted (or more accurately from standards RS232 is inverted from the common standard of +5V high being a ONE ).  This was pointed out by the
                          Message 12 of 16 , Nov 30, 2012
                            Yes, TTL is inverted (or more accurately from standards RS232 is inverted from the common standard of +5V high being a 'ONE').  This was pointed out by the quote from the manual
                                                    HI                         Low
                            TTL                > +3.0V              < +0.5V           Most often, although I have seen +3.0 to +1.0 on some devices.
                            RS232          < -V/2                  > +V/2             Where V can be +/- 5V to +/- 15V
                             
                            Some device firmware provide for "inverted" or "not inverted" signals, most often true ONLY of 1 way information - such as the Byonics TT3 GPS input.  The receive low side protection can more easily be accomodated through other means, but the send side cannot (providing the negative voltage).
                             
                            Robert Giuliano
                            KB8RCO


                            ---------------------------------------------
                            From: Lynn W Deffenbaugh (Mr) <kj4erj@...>
                            To: aprsisce@yahoogroups.com
                            Sent: Friday, November 30, 2012 12:03 PM
                            Subject: Re: [aprsisce] Re: Radio Connection to Phone?
                             
                            It's not just the voltage levels, but isn't TTL RS-232 inverted from +/-15v RS-232?  (But then, I'm primarily a software guy and this is a hardware question) Lynn (D) - KJ4ERJ - Author of APRSISCE for Windows Mobile and Win32 On 11/30/2012 11:59 AM, Rob Giuliano wrote:
                             
                            Yes, the BT module is ONLY compatable with TTL levels and before using such a module, you will need to verify the levels
                             
                            The Kenwood manual for the D72A states on page APRS-2
                              "[Low level : less than +0.5 volts / High level: more than +3.0 volts]
                                You cannot use GPS receivers with USB-Type connections."
                             
                            This is NOT RS-232C, but is TTL compatable. 
                            I know of at least 1 person locally that uses a D72a and a TTL bluetooth adaptor.
                             
                            AGAIN - IT CAN'T BE STRESS ENOUGH - CHECK THE LEVELS of your radio before connecting
                             
                            Robert Giuliano
                            KB8RCO
                            ---------------------------------------------
                            From: Brian Evans mailto:speedyguru2000@...
                            To: aprsisce@yahoogroups.com
                            Sent: Friday, November 30, 2012 4:30 AM
                            Subject: Re: [aprsisce] Re: Radio Connection to Phone?
                             
                            Every BT module I have found talks TTL(including the Blue tooth Mate Silver) however RS-232 signals are not compatible with TTL signals.  You will need a RS-232 to TTL converter to connect the BT module to the RS-232 port out of any radio.

                            Brian
                            KJ6ZZY

                            --- On Thu, 11/29/12, Rob Giuliano mailto:kb8rco@... wrote:

                            From: Rob Giuliano mailto:kb8rco@...
                            Subject: Re: [aprsisce] Re: Radio Connection to Phone?
                            To: mailto:aprsisce@yahoogroups.com mailto:aprsisce@yahoogroups.com
                            Date: Thursday, November 29, 2012, 6:25 PM

                             
                            Radio side typically comes out as serial data at low levels (such as TTL).  This type of serial to bluetooth are all over Arduino type website. 
                               Sparkfun has one that I've used with my TT4 (Blue tooth Mate Silver)
                               Setup was easier than configuring the TT4 with a terminal program
                               About $40, not too expensive.  Buy the module without he adaptor board if you can deal with the power and soldering.
                             
                            Other vendors have similar and there are varying range capability by more expensive products.
                             
                            Robert Giuliano KB8RCO
                            ---------------------------------------------
                            From: ve7mdt mailto:ve7mdt@...
                            To: aprsisce@yahoogroups.com
                            Sent: Thursday, November 29, 2012 4:25 PM
                            Subject: [aprsisce] Re: Radio Connection to Phone?
                             
                            I'm afraid that USB-OTG is a fairly new protocol that came out after the Windows Mobile platform (has sunk). However, on Windows Mobile / Pocket PC, a few devices have USB Host Mode (either on device or via a expansion dock etc), and in the past, some USB-serial adapters have drivers for Windows Mobile. For example, the Toshiba e740, e805 (e800 same), e830 all can do USB Host mode via an adapter / dock. However, none of them is supported by APRSISCE because they can only run older WM, not WM5 that APRSISCE requires. My HTC Advantage also has USB Host Mode via an adapter, but I don't own that adapter so I can't test it. Some people manage to find a cheaper BT solution than industrial models (and pricing!), but require a bit more work (testing). It is because RS-232 is rather strange, so various connection methods are possible and adjustments might be needed for it to work in one particular connection method. Things like which side initiates the data, where is it powered from, DTE and DCE distinction, handshaking etc. And then mixing it into the BT part too. I wish Kenwood or Yaesu or other manufacturers would simply integrate a BT adapter inside the radio, presenting it as a Serial profile on BT, and so save us all the pain and cumbersome connections, which is so unsightly on an otherwise nice and small handhelds. Would you be able to explain yourself at the airport or a border crossing with all the wires and adapters dangling around in this day and age? No fun. That's why I have been reluctant to buy a D72A (or Yaesu counterpart) because they haven't done this yet. Took Kenwood 10 years to integrate a GPSr inside the radio! May be another 10 years to integrate BT. No wonder ham radio is loosing ground to smartphones / internet devices! On the other hand, PCs are much easier in this regard, b/c you can get a USB-serial adapter if it doesn't have one, and I think it is hard to find a computer that doesn't have either port. I am not sure if I should laugh or cry when I see the post about the "cheaper" model and when going to the site, it is $99. for a BT-serial adapter! It should cost about 1/10 of that price, and I won't pay %100. for such an adapter unless my life depends on it. I looked around and most plug and play (i.e. confirmed to work without much tweaking) cost about $80. or more. It has been like that for the last 5+ years, nothing has changed. Can't wait for D73A or whatever it'll be named. --- In mailto:aprsisce%40yahoogroups.com, "Fred Hillhouse" mailto:fmhillhouse@... wrote: > > Hi Gil, > > My vehicle system either runs without a head unit, or with a Netbook or a > HTC Tilt. It all depends on the trip. When I am using the Tilt I use a BT > adapter. > > The simplest connection is a Bluetooth adapter connected to your TNC/Radio. > I have a Roving Networks, RN-240. It is powered by my TNC. There is a > different version that has a battery compartment. The solution isn't > necessarily cheap but it is handy. > This unit has a rechargeable battery: > http://www.rovingnetworks.com/products/RN_220XP > > You might find that your particular brand of phone supports USB-OTG. If so, > then it will work as a master and you might be able to connect an RS232 > adapter and create a wired connection. I have information (links) somewhere > that I found. > > I was researching for USB-OTG for the HTC Tilt and eventually determined it > was not possible. I am looking for a WinMo device with OTG support. > > Best regards, > Fred, N7FMH > > > _____ > > From: mailto:aprsisce%40yahoogroups.com [mailto:mailto:aprsisce%40yahoogroups.com] On Behalf > Of wb2uti > Sent: Wednesday, September 05, 2012 14:45 > To: mailto:aprsisce%40yahoogroups.com > Subject: [aprsisce] Radio Connection to Phone? > > > > > > I have a Samsung Omnia II Windows Mobile (6.5 Professional) phone that I no > longer use as a phone, but it still works just fine and has APRSISCE loaded > on it and working. I can run it in wifi mode using my current phone as a 4G > hotspot, so I have the ability to operate it most places. > > What I'd like to do, just to keep as many options available to me as > possible, is set it up with a radio for RF only use in the event the > internet is not available to me. > > I'm hoping I can get some advice here about what physical (or bluetooth) > connections are possible for such a phone. I have the feeling that bluetooth > may be the answer because the phone has a microUSB connector on it and is > intended for use as a USB device which is probably not conducive to wired > connections to a radio. What I don't understand is how to configure the > radio end with a bluetooth adapter. I have a D72 that I'd like to consider > pairing it up with. I also have D7 that could be used. > > Gil, WB2UTI >
                          • Fred Hillhouse
                            You can typically accomplish thing with a collection of resistors and transistors too but I use the MAX parts (surface mount even) since I have them left over
                            Message 13 of 16 , Nov 30, 2012
                              You can typically accomplish thing with a collection of resistors and transistors too but I use the MAX parts (surface mount even) since I have them left over from a project. The MAX parts actually generate the higher voltages. [Ever use the generated voltages to supply bipolar opamps?]
                               
                              In my experience with various laptops, the actual RS232 voltage level is less important with new hardware and when running a very short distance. I have seen +/-5V rather than the standard +/-15V per standard. 0-5V also appears to work as well.
                               
                              What is important is the inversion of the signal. IIRC, the "no data" state of RS232 is high, while the TTL "no data" state is low. That is why a simple discrete circuit often works as well.
                               
                              Best regards,
                              Fred, N7FMH
                               


                              From: aprsisce@yahoogroups.com [mailto:aprsisce@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of john Beatty
                              Sent: Friday, November 30, 2012 12:14
                              To: aprsisce@yahoogroups.com
                              Subject: Re: [aprsisce] Re: Radio Connection to Phone?

                               

                              You can make a nifty little TTL to RS232 adapter with a MAX 232 IC and a few caps.
                              I've made a bunch of these for various projects.
                              Hope this is applicable.
                              J.B.
                               
                              Credo Quia Absurdum Est
                              Credo Ut Intelligam



                              From: Rob Giuliano <kb8rco@...>
                              To: "aprsisce@yahoogroups.com" <aprsisce@yahoogroups.com>
                              Sent: Fri, November 30, 2012 9:00:01 AM
                              Subject: Re: [aprsisce] Re: Radio Connection to Phone?

                               

                              Yes, the BT module is ONLY compatable with TTL levels and before using such a module, you will need to verify the levels
                               
                              The Kenwood manual for the D72A states on page APRS-2
                                "[Low level : less than +0.5 volts / High level: more than +3.0 volts]
                                  You cannot use GPS receivers with USB-Type connections."
                               
                              This is NOT RS-232C, but is TTL compatable. 
                              I know of at least 1 person locally that uses a D72a and a TTL bluetooth adaptor.
                               
                              AGAIN - IT CAN'T BE STRESS ENOUGH - CHECK THE LEVELS of your radio before connecting
                               
                              Robert Giuliano
                              KB8RCO


                              ---------------------------------------------
                              From: Brian Evans <speedyguru2000@...>
                              To: aprsisce@yahoogroups.com
                              Sent: Friday, November 30, 2012 4:30 AM
                              Subject: Re: [aprsisce] Re: Radio Connection to Phone?
                               
                              Every BT module I have found talks TTL(including the Blue tooth Mate Silver) however RS-232 signals are not compatible with TTL signals.  You will need a RS-232 to TTL converter to connect the BT module to the RS-232 port out of any radio.

                              Brian
                              KJ6ZZY

                              --- On Thu, 11/29/12, Rob Giuliano <kb8rco@...> wrote:

                              From: Rob Giuliano <kb8rco@...>
                              Subject: Re: [aprsisce] Re: Radio Connection to Phone?
                              To: "aprsisce@yahoogroups.com" <aprsisce@yahoogroups.com>
                              Date: Thursday, November 29, 2012, 6:25 PM

                               
                              Radio side typically comes out as serial data at low levels (such as TTL).  This type of serial to bluetooth are all over Arduino type website. 
                                 Sparkfun has one that I've used with my TT4 (Blue tooth Mate Silver)
                                 Setup was easier than configuring the TT4 with a terminal program
                                 About $40, not too expensive.  Buy the module without he adaptor board if you can deal with the power and soldering.
                               
                              Other vendors have similar and there are varying range capability by more expensive products.
                               
                              Robert Giuliano KB8RCO
                              ---------------------------------------------
                              From: ve7mdt <ve7mdt@...>
                              To: aprsisce@yahoogroups.com
                              Sent: Thursday, November 29, 2012 4:25 PM
                              Subject: [aprsisce] Re: Radio Connection to Phone?
                               
                              I'm afraid that USB-OTG is a fairly new protocol that came out after the Windows Mobile platform (has sunk). However, on Windows Mobile / Pocket PC, a few devices have USB Host Mode (either on device or via a expansion dock etc), and in the past, some USB-serial adapters have drivers for Windows Mobile. For example, the Toshiba e740, e805 (e800 same), e830 all can do USB Host mode via an adapter / dock. However, none of them is supported by APRSISCE because they can only run older WM, not WM5 that APRSISCE requires. My HTC Advantage also has USB Host Mode via an adapter, but I don't own that adapter so I can't test it. Some people manage to find a cheaper BT solution than industrial models (and pricing!), but require a bit more work (testing). It is because RS-232 is rather strange, so various connection methods are possible and adjustments might be needed for it to work in one particular connection method. Things like which side initiates the data, where is it powered from, DTE and DCE distinction, handshaking etc. And then mixing it into the BT part too. I wish Kenwood or Yaesu or other manufacturers would simply integrate a BT adapter inside the radio, presenting it as a Serial profile on BT, and so save us all the pain and cumbersome connections, which is so unsightly on an otherwise nice and small handhelds. Would you be able to explain yourself at the airport or a border crossing with all the wires and adapters dangling around in this day and age? No fun. That's why I have been reluctant to buy a D72A (or Yaesu counterpart) because they haven't done this yet. Took Kenwood 10 years to integrate a GPSr inside the radio! May be another 10 years to integrate BT. No wonder ham radio is loosing ground to smartphones / internet devices! On the other hand, PCs are much easier in this regard, b/c you can get a USB-serial adapter if it doesn't have one, and I think it is hard to find a computer that doesn't have either port. I am not sure if I should laugh or cry when I see the post about the "cheaper" model and when going to the site, it is $99. for a BT-serial adapter! It should cost about 1/10 of that price, and I won't pay %100. for such an adapter unless my life depends on it. I looked around and most plug and play (i.e. confirmed to work without much tweaking) cost about $80. or more. It has been like that for the last 5+ years, nothing has changed. Can't wait for D73A or whatever it'll be named. --- In mailto:aprsisce%40yahoogroups.com, "Fred Hillhouse" wrote: > > Hi Gil, > > My vehicle system either runs without a head unit, or with a Netbook or a > HTC Tilt. It all depends on the trip. When I am using the Tilt I use a BT > adapter. > > The simplest connection is a Bluetooth adapter connected to your TNC/Radio. > I have a Roving Networks, RN-240. It is powered by my TNC. There is a > different version that has a battery compartment. The solution isn't > necessarily cheap but it is handy. > This unit has a rechargeable battery: > http://www.rovingnetworks.com/products/RN_220XP > > You might find that your particular brand of phone supports USB-OTG. If so, > then it will work as a master and you might be able to connect an RS232 > adapter and create a wired connection. I have information (links) somewhere > that I found. > > I was researching for USB-OTG for the HTC Tilt and eventually determined it > was not possible. I am looking for a WinMo device with OTG support. > > Best regards, > Fred, N7FMH > > > _____ > > From: mailto:aprsisce%40yahoogroups.com [mailto:mailto:aprsisce%40yahoogroups.com] On Behalf > Of wb2uti > Sent: Wednesday, September 05, 2012 14:45 > To: mailto:aprsisce%40yahoogroups.com > Subject: [aprsisce] Radio Connection to Phone? > > > > > > I have a Samsung Omnia II Windows Mobile (6.5 Professional) phone that I no > longer use as a phone, but it still works just fine and has APRSISCE loaded > on it and working. I can run it in wifi mode using my current phone as a 4G > hotspot, so I have the ability to operate it most places. > > What I'd like to do, just to keep as many options available to me as > possible, is set it up with a radio for RF only use in the event the > internet is not available to me. > > I'm hoping I can get some advice here about what physical (or bluetooth) > connections are possible for such a phone. I have the feeling that bluetooth > may be the answer because the phone has a microUSB connector on it and is > intended for use as a USB device which is probably not conducive to wired > connections to a radio. What I don't understand is how to configure the > radio end with a bluetooth adapter. I have a D72 that I'd like to consider > pairing it up with. I also have D7 that could be used. > > Gil, WB2UTI >

                            • Gary Sanders
                              It seems like I m ALWAYS needing these things for one project or another. I ve bought quite a few for next to nothing (actually equivalent to or less than I
                              Message 14 of 16 , Nov 30, 2012
                                It seems like I'm ALWAYS needing these things for one project or another.

                                I've bought quite a few for next to nothing (actually equivalent to or
                                less than I can make them for - with free shipping!) on eBay. The
                                connector is mounted on a tiny PCB. You just mount the connector to a
                                panel like you normally would, and connect the wires to the PCB. Caution
                                - some of these only provide TX and RX. Look for ones with the
                                handshaking lines implemented.

                                The only catch - they usually come from somewhere in the Orient, so
                                there will be a fair amount of lead time. So I usually keep several on hand.

                                Gary Sanders W0BY



                                On 11/30/2012 12:14 PM, john Beatty wrote:
                                >
                                >
                                > You can make a nifty little TTL to RS232 adapter with a MAX 232 IC and a
                                > few caps.
                                > I've made a bunch of these for various projects.
                                > Hope this is applicable.
                                > J.B.
                                > Credo Quia Absurdum Est
                                > Credo Ut Intelligam
                                >
                                >
                                > ------------------------------------------------------------------------
                                > *From:* Rob Giuliano <kb8rco@...>
                                > *To:* "aprsisce@yahoogroups.com" <aprsisce@yahoogroups.com>
                                > *Sent:* Fri, November 30, 2012 9:00:01 AM
                                > *Subject:* Re: [aprsisce] Re: Radio Connection to Phone?
                                >
                                > Yes, the BT module is ONLY compatable with TTL levels and before using
                                > such a module, you will need to verify the levels
                                > The Kenwood manual for the D72A states on page APRS-2
                                > "[Low level : less than +0.5 volts / High level: more than +3.0 volts]
                                > You cannot use GPS receivers with USB-Type connections."
                                > This is NOT RS-232C, but is TTL compatable.
                                > I know of at least 1 person locally that uses a D72a and a TTL bluetooth
                                > adaptor.
                                > AGAIN - IT CAN'T BESTRESS ENOUGH - CHECK THE LEVELS of your radio before
                                > connecting
                                > Robert Giuliano
                                > KB8RCO
                              • Brian Evans
                                Ahh, I think we are talking different ports.  I was referring to the rs232 port from the radio to the computer.  I believe you are talking about the GPS port
                                Message 15 of 16 , Nov 30, 2012
                                  Ahh, I think we are talking different ports.  I was referring to the rs232 port from the radio to the computer.  I believe you are talking about the GPS port on the Kenwood radio.  I haven't worked with the Kenwood radios but I have read some about them.  Most of my Experience is with the Yaesu FTM-350 which allows the GPS data to be sent to the radio via the RS-232 serial port.  Right now I am using the Bluetooth adapter to send APRS packet data from the radio to my laptop with aprisis32.


                                  I think the gating factor for Phone apps for Ham radio is the connectivity between the radio and the phones.  I'm on a mission to build the necessary hardware to allow phone to radio communications for many different radios.  So far I have a generic RS-232 to Bluetooth for data(shooting for $45 per unit plug and play) and I'm now working on a generic audio to Bluetooth controller.  Haven't looked but there may already be a solution for that.

                                  Brian
                                  KJ6ZZY
                                  --- On Fri, 11/30/12, Rob Giuliano <kb8rco@...> wrote:

                                  From: Rob Giuliano <kb8rco@...>
                                  Subject: Re: [aprsisce] Re: Radio Connection to Phone?
                                  To: "aprsisce@yahoogroups.com" <aprsisce@yahoogroups.com>
                                  Date: Friday, November 30, 2012, 8:59 AM

                                   

                                  Yes, the BT module is ONLY compatable with TTL levels and before using such a module, you will need to verify the levels
                                   
                                  The Kenwood manual for the D72A states on page APRS-2
                                    "[Low level : less than +0.5 volts / High level: more than +3.0 volts]
                                      You cannot use GPS receivers with USB-Type connections."
                                   
                                  This is NOT RS-232C, but is TTL compatable. 
                                  I know of at least 1 person locally that uses a D72a and a TTL bluetooth adaptor.
                                   
                                  AGAIN - IT CAN'T BE STRESS ENOUGH - CHECK THE LEVELS of your radio before connecting
                                   
                                  Robert Giuliano
                                  KB8RCO


                                  ---------------------------------------------
                                  From: Brian Evans <speedyguru2000@...>
                                  To: aprsisce@yahoogroups.com
                                  Sent: Friday, November 30, 2012 4:30 AM
                                  Subject: Re: [aprsisce] Re: Radio Connection to Phone?
                                   
                                  Every BT module I have found talks TTL(including the Blue tooth Mate Silver) however RS-232 signals are not compatible with TTL signals.  You will need a RS-232 to TTL converter to connect the BT module to the RS-232 port out of any radio.

                                  Brian
                                  KJ6ZZY

                                  --- On Thu, 11/29/12, Rob Giuliano <kb8rco@...> wrote:

                                  From: Rob Giuliano <kb8rco@...>
                                  Subject: Re: [aprsisce] Re: Radio Connection to Phone?
                                  To: "aprsisce@yahoogroups.com" <aprsisce@yahoogroups.com>
                                  Date: Thursday, November 29, 2012, 6:25 PM

                                   
                                  Radio side typically comes out as serial data at low levels (such as TTL).  This type of serial to bluetooth are all over Arduino type website. 
                                     Sparkfun has one that I've used with my TT4 (Blue tooth Mate Silver)
                                     Setup was easier than configuring the TT4 with a terminal program
                                     About $40, not too expensive.  Buy the module without he adaptor board if you can deal with the power and soldering.
                                   
                                  Other vendors have similar and there are varying range capability by more expensive products.
                                   
                                  Robert Giuliano KB8RCO
                                  ---------------------------------------------
                                  From: ve7mdt <ve7mdt@...>
                                  To: aprsisce@yahoogroups.com
                                  Sent: Thursday, November 29, 2012 4:25 PM
                                  Subject: [aprsisce] Re: Radio Connection to Phone?
                                   
                                  I'm afraid that USB-OTG is a fairly new protocol that came out after the Windows Mobile platform (has sunk). However, on Windows Mobile / Pocket PC, a few devices have USB Host Mode (either on device or via a expansion dock etc), and in the past, some USB-serial adapters have drivers for Windows Mobile. For example, the Toshiba e740, e805 (e800 same), e830 all can do USB Host mode via an adapter / dock. However, none of them is supported by APRSISCE because they can only run older WM, not WM5 that APRSISCE requires. My HTC Advantage also has USB Host Mode via an adapter, but I don't own that adapter so I can't test it. Some people manage to find a cheaper BT solution than industrial models (and pricing!), but require a bit more work (testing). It is because RS-232 is rather strange, so various connection methods are possible and adjustments might be needed for it to work in one particular connection method. Things like which side initiates the data, where is it powered from, DTE and DCE distinction, handshaking etc. And then mixing it into the BT part too. I wish Kenwood or Yaesu or other manufacturers would simply integrate a BT adapter inside the radio, presenting it as a Serial profile on BT, and so save us all the pain and cumbersome connections, which is so unsightly on an otherwise nice and small handhelds. Would you be able to explain yourself at the airport or a border crossing with all the wires and adapters dangling around in this day and age? No fun. That's why I have been reluctant to buy a D72A (or Yaesu counterpart) because they haven't done this yet. Took Kenwood 10 years to integrate a GPSr inside the radio! May be another 10 years to integrate BT. No wonder ham radio is loosing ground to smartphones / internet devices! On the other hand, PCs are much easier in this regard, b/c you can get a USB-serial adapter if it doesn't have one, and I think it is hard to find a computer that doesn't have either port. I am not sure if I should laugh or cry when I see the post about the "cheaper" model and when going to the site, it is $99. for a BT-serial adapter! It should cost about 1/10 of that price, and I won't pay %100. for such an adapter unless my life depends on it. I looked around and most plug and play (i.e. confirmed to work without much tweaking) cost about $80. or more. It has been like that for the last 5+ years, nothing has changed. Can't wait for D73A or whatever it'll be named. --- In mailto:aprsisce%40yahoogroups.com, "Fred Hillhouse" <fmhillhouse@...> wrote: > > Hi Gil, > > My vehicle system either runs without a head unit, or with a Netbook or a > HTC Tilt. It all depends on the trip. When I am using the Tilt I use a BT > adapter. > > The simplest connection is a Bluetooth adapter connected to your TNC/Radio. > I have a Roving Networks, RN-240. It is powered by my TNC. There is a > different version that has a battery compartment. The solution isn't > necessarily cheap but it is handy. > This unit has a rechargeable battery: > http://www.rovingnetworks.com/products/RN_220XP > > You might find that your particular brand of phone supports USB-OTG. If so, > then it will work as a master and you might be able to connect an RS232 > adapter and create a wired connection. I have information (links) somewhere > that I found. > > I was researching for USB-OTG for the HTC Tilt and eventually determined it > was not possible. I am looking for a WinMo device with OTG support. > > Best regards, > Fred, N7FMH > > > _____ > > From: mailto:aprsisce%40yahoogroups.com [mailto:mailto:aprsisce%40yahoogroups.com] On Behalf > Of wb2uti > Sent: Wednesday, September 05, 2012 14:45 > To: mailto:aprsisce%40yahoogroups.com > Subject: [aprsisce] Radio Connection to Phone? > > > > > > I have a Samsung Omnia II Windows Mobile (6.5 Professional) phone that I no > longer use as a phone, but it still works just fine and has APRSISCE loaded > on it and working. I can run it in wifi mode using my current phone as a 4G > hotspot, so I have the ability to operate it most places. > > What I'd like to do, just to keep as many options available to me as > possible, is set it up with a radio for RF only use in the event the > internet is not available to me. > > I'm hoping I can get some advice here about what physical (or bluetooth) > connections are possible for such a phone. I have the feeling that bluetooth > may be the answer because the phone has a microUSB connector on it and is > intended for use as a USB device which is probably not conducive to wired > connections to a radio. What I don't understand is how to configure the > radio end with a bluetooth adapter. I have a D72 that I'd like to consider > pairing it up with. I also have D7 that could be used. > > Gil, WB2UTI >
                                • Rob Giuliano
                                  You are correct, the information I was quoting was from the GPS/WX station port.  In this particular radio, the computer connection is USB.  I am not sure
                                  Message 16 of 16 , Nov 30, 2012
                                    You are correct, the information I was quoting was from the GPS/WX station port.  In this particular radio, the computer connection is USB.  I am not sure how to get from a USB slave device to a BT device as you would probably need some kind of controller with driver (good Rasberry Pi project).  Now I have to find the HAM that told me they were using BT with the D72???
                                      Probably using an external TNC.
                                     
                                    Personally, I'd prefer a radio with TTL serial output coming out with the RS232 protocol.  That can be "piped" into a cheap RN-41, RN42, or other Bluetooth adaptor without other configurations.  Actually, I "personally" use a TT4 with the RN41 (Bluetooth Mate Silver) with display and feed it audio, PTT, gnd, and let it generate TX audio.  I can connect to BT capable phones and I have a BT dongle ($10.00 or less in many places) on my computer.
                                     
                                    Robert Giuliano
                                    KB8RCO


                                    ---------------------------------------------
                                    From: Brian Evans <speedyguru2000@...>
                                    To: aprsisce@yahoogroups.com
                                    Sent: Friday, November 30, 2012 6:49 PM
                                    Subject: Re: [aprsisce] Re: Radio Connection to Phone?
                                     
                                    Ahh, I think we are talking different ports.  I was referring to the rs232 port from the radio to the computer.  I believe you are talking about the GPS port on the Kenwood radio.  I haven't worked with the Kenwood radios but I have read some about them.  Most of my Experience is with the Yaesu FTM-350 which allows the GPS data to be sent to the radio via the RS-232 serial port.  Right now I am using the Bluetooth adapter to send APRS packet data from the radio to my laptop with aprisis32.


                                    I think the gating factor for Phone apps for Ham radio is the connectivity between the radio and the phones.  I'm on a mission to build the necessary hardware to allow phone to radio communications for many different radios.  So far I have a generic RS-232 to Bluetooth for data(shooting for $45 per unit plug and play) and I'm now working on a generic audio to Bluetooth controller.  Haven't looked but there may already be a solution for that.

                                    Brian
                                    KJ6ZZY
                                    --- On Fri, 11/30/12, Rob Giuliano <kb8rco@...> wrote:

                                    From: Rob Giuliano <kb8rco@...>
                                    Subject: Re: [aprsisce] Re: Radio Connection to Phone?
                                    To: "aprsisce@yahoogroups.com" <aprsisce@yahoogroups.com>
                                    Date: Friday, November 30, 2012, 8:59 AM

                                     
                                    Yes, the BT module is ONLY compatable with TTL levels and before using such a module, you will need to verify the levels
                                     
                                    The Kenwood manual for the D72A states on page APRS-2
                                      "[Low level : less than +0.5 volts / High level: more than +3.0 volts]
                                        You cannot use GPS receivers with USB-Type connections."
                                     
                                    This is NOT RS-232C, but is TTL compatable. 
                                    I know of at least 1 person locally that uses a D72a and a TTL bluetooth adaptor.
                                     
                                    AGAIN - IT CAN'T BE STRESS ENOUGH - CHECK THE LEVELS of your radio before connecting
                                     
                                    Robert Giuliano KB8RCO
                                    ---------------------------------------------
                                    From: Brian Evans <speedyguru2000@...>
                                    To: aprsisce@yahoogroups.com
                                    Sent: Friday, November 30, 2012 4:30 AM
                                    Subject: Re: [aprsisce] Re: Radio Connection to Phone?
                                     
                                    Every BT module I have found talks TTL(including the Blue tooth Mate Silver) however RS-232 signals are not compatible with TTL signals.  You will need a RS-232 to TTL converter to connect the BT module to the RS-232 port out of any radio.

                                    Brian
                                    KJ6ZZY

                                    --- On Thu, 11/29/12, Rob Giuliano <kb8rco@...> wrote:

                                    From: Rob Giuliano <kb8rco@...>
                                    Subject: Re: [aprsisce] Re: Radio Connection to Phone?
                                    To: "aprsisce@yahoogroups.com" <aprsisce@yahoogroups.com>
                                    Date: Thursday, November 29, 2012, 6:25 PM

                                     
                                    Radio side typically comes out as serial data at low levels (such as TTL).  This type of serial to bluetooth are all over Arduino type website. 
                                       Sparkfun has one that I've used with my TT4 (Blue tooth Mate Silver)
                                       Setup was easier than configuring the TT4 with a terminal program
                                       About $40, not too expensive.  Buy the module without he adaptor board if you can deal with the power and soldering.
                                     
                                    Other vendors have similar and there are varying range capability by more expensive products.
                                     
                                    Robert Giuliano KB8RCO
                                    ---------------------------------------------
                                    From: ve7mdt <ve7mdt@...>
                                    To: aprsisce@yahoogroups.com
                                    Sent: Thursday, November 29, 2012 4:25 PM
                                    Subject: [aprsisce] Re: Radio Connection to Phone?
                                     
                                    I'm afraid that USB-OTG is a fairly new protocol that came out after the Windows Mobile platform (has sunk). However, on Windows Mobile / Pocket PC, a few devices have USB Host Mode (either on device or via a expansion dock etc), and in the past, some USB-serial adapters have drivers for Windows Mobile. For example, the Toshiba e740, e805 (e800 same), e830 all can do USB Host mode via an adapter / dock. However, none of them is supported by APRSISCE because they can only run older WM, not WM5 that APRSISCE requires. My HTC Advantage also has USB Host Mode via an adapter, but I don't own that adapter so I can't test it. Some people manage to find a cheaper BT solution than industrial models (and pricing!), but require a bit more work (testing). It is because RS-232 is rather strange, so various connection methods are possible and adjustments might be needed for it to work in one particular connection method. Things like which side initiates the data, where is it powered from, DTE and DCE distinction, handshaking etc. And then mixing it into the BT part too. I wish Kenwood or Yaesu or other manufacturers would simply integrate a BT adapter inside the radio, presenting it as a Serial profile on BT, and so save us all the pain and cumbersome connections, which is so unsightly on an otherwise nice and small handhelds. Would you be able to explain yourself at the airport or a border crossing with all the wires and adapters dangling around in this day and age? No fun. That's why I have been reluctant to buy a D72A (or Yaesu counterpart) because they haven't done this yet. Took Kenwood 10 years to integrate a GPSr inside the radio! May be another 10 years to integrate BT. No wonder ham radio is loosing ground to smartphones / internet devices! On the other hand, PCs are much easier in this regard, b/c you can get a USB-serial adapter if it doesn't have one, and I think it is hard to find a computer that doesn't have either port. I am not sure if I should laugh or cry when I see the post about the "cheaper" model and when going to the site, it is $99. for a BT-serial adapter! It should cost about 1/10 of that price, and I won't pay %100. for such an adapter unless my life depends on it. I looked around and most plug and play (i.e. confirmed to work without much tweaking) cost about $80. or more. It has been like that for the last 5+ years, nothing has changed. Can't wait for D73A or whatever it'll be named. --- In mailto:aprsisce%40yahoogroups.com, "Fred Hillhouse" <fmhillhouse@...> wrote: > > Hi Gil, > > My vehicle system either runs without a head unit, or with a Netbook or a > HTC Tilt. It all depends on the trip. When I am using the Tilt I use a BT > adapter. > > The simplest connection is a Bluetooth adapter connected to your TNC/Radio. > I have a Roving Networks, RN-240. It is powered by my TNC. There is a > different version that has a battery compartment. The solution isn't > necessarily cheap but it is handy. > This unit has a rechargeable battery: > http://www.rovingnetworks.com/products/RN_220XP > > You might find that your particular brand of phone supports USB-OTG. If so, > then it will work as a master and you might be able to connect an RS232 > adapter and create a wired connection. I have information (links) somewhere > that I found. > > I was researching for USB-OTG for the HTC Tilt and eventually determined it > was not possible. I am looking for a WinMo device with OTG support. > > Best regards, > Fred, N7FMH > > > _____ > > From: mailto:aprsisce%40yahoogroups.com [mailto:mailto:aprsisce%40yahoogroups.com] On Behalf > Of wb2uti > Sent: Wednesday, September 05, 2012 14:45 > To: mailto:aprsisce%40yahoogroups.com > Subject: [aprsisce] Radio Connection to Phone? > > > > > > I have a Samsung Omnia II Windows Mobile (6.5 Professional) phone that I no > longer use as a phone, but it still works just fine and has APRSISCE loaded > on it and working. I can run it in wifi mode using my current phone as a 4G > hotspot, so I have the ability to operate it most places. > > What I'd like to do, just to keep as many options available to me as > possible, is set it up with a radio for RF only use in the event the > internet is not available to me. > > I'm hoping I can get some advice here about what physical (or bluetooth) > connections are possible for such a phone. I have the feeling that bluetooth > may be the answer because the phone has a microUSB connector on it and is > intended for use as a USB device which is probably not conducive to wired > connections to a radio. What I don't understand is how to configure the > radio end with a bluetooth adapter. I have a D72 that I'd like to consider > pairing it up with. I also have D7 that could be used. > > Gil, WB2UTI >
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