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Fixed object moving

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  • Krzysztof SQ5NWI
    Lynn, few of my friend are testing dsDIGI which is new but pritty advanced polish project DSP technology based. They found that fixed digi peaters objects are
    Message 1 of 10 , Aug 30, 2012
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      Lynn,

      few of my friend are testing dsDIGI which is new but pritty advanced polish
      project DSP technology based.
      They found that fixed digi peaters objects are moving despite they have
      fixed position entered and beaconed.
      This movement is observed in APRSISCE/32 while on aprs.fi they don't move.

      Other APRS users more specialized in APRS protocol analysis found that the
      reason is probably in wrong APRSISCE/32 decoding of the compressed data
      (Base-91 format) where csT parameters are always decoded as cours and speed.
      Depending od T identifier cs data should be decoded as course/speed or
      altitude or range (RNG) and they are not.
      Problem occurs if altitude of the object is set. It doesn't move if there is
      no altitude set in object configuration.

      There was suggestion to disable dead reckoning to validate that diagnosis -
      I have no confirmation about results of such test.

      Here you have packet example for which fixed object is looking in
      APRSISCE/32 like mobile station with course and speed.


      If you need more details or explanation of that issue, just ask me.
    • Krzysztof SQ5NWI
      And the mentioned packet: SQ5MRF-4 APDS01,WIDE2-2,qAR,SR5NRF:=/4,w.Serg#@:6Test dsDIGI/Telemetry ON sq5mrf@gmail.com op.Andrzej -- Regards, Krzysztof SQ5NWI
      Message 2 of 10 , Aug 30, 2012
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        And the mentioned packet:

        SQ5MRF-4>APDS01,WIDE2-2,qAR,SR5NRF:=/4,w.Serg#@:6Test dsDIGI/Telemetry ON
        sq5mrf@... op.Andrzej
        --
        Regards,

        Krzysztof
        SQ5NWI

        From: aprsisce@yahoogroups.com [mailto:aprsisce@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf
        Of Krzysztof SQ5NWI
        Sent: Thursday, August 30, 2012 10:29 AM
        To: aprsisce@yahoogroups.com
        Subject: [SPAM] [aprsisce] Fixed object moving

         
        Lynn,

        few of my friend are testing dsDIGI which is new but pritty advanced polish
        project DSP technology based.
        They found that fixed digi peaters objects are moving despite they have
        fixed position entered and beaconed.
        This movement is observed in APRSISCE/32 while on aprs.fi they don't move.

        Other APRS users more specialized in APRS protocol analysis found that the
        reason is probably in wrong APRSISCE/32 decoding of the compressed data
        (Base-91 format) where csT parameters are always decoded as cours and speed.
        Depending od T identifier cs data should be decoded as course/speed or
        altitude or range (RNG) and they are not.
        Problem occurs if altitude of the object is set. It doesn't move if there is
        no altitude set in object configuration.

        There was suggestion to disable dead reckoning to validate that diagnosis -
        I have no confirmation about results of such test.

        Here you have packet example for which fixed object is looking in
        APRSISCE/32 like mobile station with course and speed.

        If you need more details or explanation of that issue, just ask me.
      • Krzysztof SQ5NWI
        I ve tried to analyze the case by myself. String /4,w.Serg#@:6 wich is what we are interested in. It contains of following: / - first part of symbol (symbol
        Message 3 of 10 , Aug 30, 2012
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          I've tried to analyze the case by myself.

          String /4,w.Serg#@:6 wich is what we are interested in.

           

          It contains of following:

          / - first part of symbol (symbol table)

          4,w. - compressed latitude

          Serg - compressed longitude

          # - second part of symbol

          @:6 - csT bytes

           

          T byte equal to 6 means ASCII value in decimal equal to 54.

          In binary it is equal to 00110110 so following APRS101 spec, chapter 9, The Compression Type (T) Byte specification we have information that there is an altitude in feet (bits 4 and 3 are 10).

          In this case we have @: value so 295 feet if I'm not wrong.

           

          My friend sent me screen from APRSIS32 where for identical packet there is no altitude, but there is a speed and course.

          I hope it will help.

           

          cid:part1.08010009.06010503@...

          --

          Regards,

           

          Krzysztof

          SQ5NWI

           

          -----Original Message-----
          From: Krzysztof SQ5NWI [mailto:sq5nwi@...]
          Sent: Thursday, August 30, 2012 10:53 AM
          To: 'aprsisce@yahoogroups.com'
          Subject: RE: [SPAM] [aprsisce] Fixed object moving

           

          And the mentioned packet:

           

          SQ5MRF-4>APDS01,WIDE2-2,qAR,SR5NRF:=/4,w.Serg#@:6Test dsDIGI/Telemetry

          SQ5MRF-4>ON sq5mrf@... op.Andrzej

          --

          Regards,

           

          Krzysztof

          SQ5NWI

           

          From: aprsisce@yahoogroups.com [mailto:aprsisce@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Krzysztof SQ5NWI

          Sent: Thursday, August 30, 2012 10:29 AM

          To: aprsisce@yahoogroups.com

          Subject: [SPAM] [aprsisce] Fixed object moving

           

           

          Lynn,

           

          few of my friend are testing dsDIGI which is new but pritty advanced polish project DSP technology based.

          They found that fixed digi peaters objects are moving despite they have fixed position entered and beaconed.

          This movement is observed in APRSISCE/32 while on aprs.fi they don't move.

           

          Other APRS users more specialized in APRS protocol analysis found that the reason is probably in wrong APRSISCE/32 decoding of the compressed data

          (Base-91 format) where csT parameters are always decoded as cours and speed.

          Depending od T identifier cs data should be decoded as course/speed or altitude or range (RNG) and they are not.

          Problem occurs if altitude of the object is set. It doesn't move if there is no altitude set in object configuration.

           

          There was suggestion to disable dead reckoning to validate that diagnosis - I have no confirmation about results of such test.

           

          Here you have packet example for which fixed object is looking in

          APRSISCE/32 like mobile station with course and speed.

           

          If you need more details or explanation of that issue, just ask me.

        • Krzysztof SQ5NWI
          I m learning... Compressed T byte value 6 means ASCII table value 54-33 so 21 (binary 00010101), but this doesn t change final conclusion. I hope now I am
          Message 4 of 10 , Aug 30, 2012
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            I’m learning...

            Compressed T byte value 6 means ASCII table value 54-33 so 21 (binary 00010101), but this doesn’t change final conclusion.

            I hope now I am correct ;-).

            --

            Regards,

             

            Krzysztof

            SQ5NWI

             

            From: Krzysztof SQ5NWI [mailto:sq5nwi@...]
            Sent: Thursday, August 30, 2012 12:32 PM
            To: 'aprsisce@yahoogroups.com'
            Subject: RE: [SPAM] [aprsisce] Fixed object moving

             

            I've tried to analyze the case by myself.

            String /4,w.Serg#@:6 wich is what we are interested in.

             

            It contains of following:

            / - first part of symbol (symbol table)

            4,w. - compressed latitude

            Serg - compressed longitude

            # - second part of symbol

            @:6 - csT bytes

             

            T byte equal to 6 means ASCII value in decimal equal to 54.

            In binary it is equal to 00110110 so following APRS101 spec, chapter 9, The Compression Type (T) Byte specification we have information that there is an altitude in feet (bits 4 and 3 are 10).

            In this case we have @: value so 295 feet if I'm not wrong.

             

            My friend sent me screen from APRSIS32 where for identical packet there is no altitude, but there is a speed and course.

            I hope it will help.

             

            cid:part1.08010009.06010503@...

            --

            Regards,

             

            Krzysztof

            SQ5NWI

             

            -----Original Message-----
            From: Krzysztof SQ5NWI [mailto:sq5nwi@...]
            Sent: Thursday, August 30, 2012 10:53 AM
            To: 'aprsisce@yahoogroups.com'
            Subject: RE: [SPAM] [aprsisce] Fixed object moving

             

            And the mentioned packet:

             

            SQ5MRF-4>APDS01,WIDE2-2,qAR,SR5NRF:=/4,w.Serg#@:6Test dsDIGI/Telemetry

            SQ5MRF-4>ON sq5mrf@... op.Andrzej

            --

            Regards,

             

            Krzysztof

            SQ5NWI

             

            From: aprsisce@yahoogroups.com [mailto:aprsisce@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Krzysztof SQ5NWI

            Sent: Thursday, August 30, 2012 10:29 AM

            To: aprsisce@yahoogroups.com

            Subject: [SPAM] [aprsisce] Fixed object moving

             

             

            Lynn,

             

            few of my friend are testing dsDIGI which is new but pritty advanced polish project DSP technology based.

            They found that fixed digi peaters objects are moving despite they have fixed position entered and beaconed.

            This movement is observed in APRSISCE/32 while on aprs.fi they don't move.

             

            Other APRS users more specialized in APRS protocol analysis found that the reason is probably in wrong APRSISCE/32 decoding of the compressed data

            (Base-91 format) where csT parameters are always decoded as cours and speed.

            Depending od T identifier cs data should be decoded as course/speed or altitude or range (RNG) and they are not.

            Problem occurs if altitude of the object is set. It doesn't move if there is no altitude set in object configuration.

             

            There was suggestion to disable dead reckoning to validate that diagnosis - I have no confirmation about results of such test.

             

            Here you have packet example for which fixed object is looking in

            APRSISCE/32 like mobile station with course and speed.

             

            If you need more details or explanation of that issue, just ask me.

          • Krzysztof SQ5NWI
            Before you will kill me for spamming - [SPAM] in the previous messages headers was added by my e-mail server. Now I taught it to behave properly with
            Message 5 of 10 , Aug 30, 2012
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              Before you will "kill" me for spamming - [SPAM] in the previous messages
              headers was added by my e-mail server.
              Now I taught it to behave properly with aprsisce@yahoogroups.com messages
              ;-)
              --
              Regards,

              Krzysztof
              SQ5NWI
            • Keith VE7GDH
              Krzysztof SQ5NWI wrote... ... You said fixed object moving ... if it was an object, there would be a semi-colon for the packet type identifier, followed by
              Message 6 of 10 , Aug 30, 2012
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                Krzysztof SQ5NWI wrote...

                > SQ5MRF-4>APDS01,WIDE2-2,qAR,SR5NRF
                > :=/4,w.Serg#@:6Test dsDIGI/Telemetry ON sq5mrf@... op.Andrzej

                You said "fixed object moving"... if it was an object, there would be
                a semi-colon for the packet type identifier, followed by the name of
                the object. Do you perhaps mean "fixed station moving"?

                http://aprs.fi/?c=raw&call=SQ5MRF*&limit=1000

                Strangely, I don't see anything from SQ5MRF-4 that has made it to
                an iGate recently, but there are beacons from SQ5MRF-9, SQ5MRF-10
                and SQ5MRF-13.

                http://aprs.fi/info/SQ5MRF%2A
                http://aprs.fi/info/?call=SQ5MRF-4

                Going back 22 days, SQ5MRF-4 was beaconing as a digipeater.
                I couldn't see any objects generated by it. Are there any more
                recent examples, or better yet, one that is happening right now?

                73 es cul - Keith VE7GDH
                --
                "I may be lost, but I know exactly where I am!"
              • Lynn W Deffenbaugh (Mr)
                Thank you for bringing this to my attention. It was, in fact, my error... Relevant sections of aprs101.pdf (for those that haven t cracked the covers to
                Message 7 of 10 , Aug 30, 2012
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                  Thank you for bringing this to my attention.  It was, in fact, my error...

                  Relevant sections of aprs101.pdf (for those that haven't cracked the covers to understand just how complicated the APRS protocol actually is):

                  You'll note that there's no mention of T describing what kind of data the compressed portion is:



                  But the Course/Speed triggers off of the c byte's value:






                  As does the Pre-Calculated Radio Range:



                  But WAIT!  When you get down to Altitude, the T byte defines what it is!



                  So, my parser implemented it in EXACTLY that sequence.  The T byte wasn't checked if either of the previous two conditions were met.  Foolish me.  It is now corrected and will be in the next development release (along with the proper recognition of the APDS01 platform designator that Bob published as APDSXX (literal XX) instead of APDSxx (variable last 2 characters).

                  Lynn (D) - KJ4ERJ - Author of APRSISCE for Windows Mobile and Win32


                • Lynn W Deffenbaugh (Mr)
                  Keith, I was also confused by the pair (age and object) of red herrings (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Red_herring). Apparently this station was only active a
                  Message 8 of 10 , Aug 30, 2012
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                    Keith, I was also confused by the pair (age and object) of red herrings
                    (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Red_herring). Apparently this station was
                    only active a LONG time ago and the packet was captured at that time.
                    Lucky for me, there are other APDS01 users out there that can be found
                    with a Control-G FilterTest of u/APDS01. SP9PEE-2 is the one I chose
                    because it was showing a speed. After the fix, it is now showing an
                    altitude.

                    And in the process of doing that, I also noted that the platform was
                    wrong so I corrected for Bob's lack of attention to case details from
                    http://www.aprs.org/aprs11/tocalls.txt

                    > APDSXX SP9UOB for dsDigi and ds-tracker

                    XX (literal) doesn't mean the same thing as xx (variable) when it is fed
                    to a program! Why do computers have to be so LITERAL? (Note: I also
                    adopted the dsDIGI/dsTRACKER spelling from how the polish users are
                    referring to it on their own forums. Not how Bob presents it in the
                    toCall specs).

                    Lynn (D) - KJ4ERJ - Author of APRSISCE for Windows Mobile and Win32

                    On 8/30/2012 8:44 AM, Keith VE7GDH wrote:
                    > Krzysztof SQ5NWI wrote...
                    >
                    >> SQ5MRF-4>APDS01,WIDE2-2,qAR,SR5NRF
                    >> :=/4,w.Serg#@:6Test dsDIGI/Telemetry ON sq5mrf@... op.Andrzej
                    > You said "fixed object moving"... if it was an object, there would be
                    > a semi-colon for the packet type identifier, followed by the name of
                    > the object. Do you perhaps mean "fixed station moving"?
                    >
                    > http://aprs.fi/?c=raw&call=SQ5MRF*&limit=1000
                    >
                    > Strangely, I don't see anything from SQ5MRF-4 that has made it to
                    > an iGate recently, but there are beacons from SQ5MRF-9, SQ5MRF-10
                    > and SQ5MRF-13.
                    >
                    > http://aprs.fi/info/SQ5MRF%2A
                    > http://aprs.fi/info/?call=SQ5MRF-4
                    >
                    > Going back 22 days, SQ5MRF-4 was beaconing as a digipeater.
                    > I couldn't see any objects generated by it. Are there any more
                    > recent examples, or better yet, one that is happening right now?
                    >
                    > 73 es cul - Keith VE7GDH
                    > --
                    > "I may be lost, but I know exactly where I am!"
                    >
                    >
                    > ------------------------------------
                    >
                    > Yahoo! Groups Links
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                  • Krzysztof SQ5NWI
                    You re right, this should be called station - not object. SQ5MRF-4 was temporary SSID when my friend tested new device with it s configuration, but I was on
                    Message 9 of 10 , Aug 30, 2012
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                      You're right, this should be called station - not object.

                      SQ5MRF-4 was temporary SSID when my friend tested new device with it's
                      configuration, but I was on vacation and just now prepared issue description
                      based on his e-mail from the beginning of August.
                      Now the same device in the same location works continuously as SR5NRF-2.
                      I haven't any active one "moving" because guys known for me changed
                      configuration and set no altitude to avoid this strange effect.
                      I could ask them to enter it again into configuration, but I think this is
                      nothing interesting to observe while the problem is already discovered,
                      identified and under Lyn's development.
                      --
                      Regards,

                      Krzysztof
                      SQ5NWI


                      -----Original Message-----
                      From: aprsisce@yahoogroups.com [mailto:aprsisce@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf
                      Of Keith VE7GDH
                      Sent: Thursday, August 30, 2012 2:44 PM
                      To: aprsisce@yahoogroups.com
                      Subject: Re: [SPAM] [aprsisce] Fixed object moving

                      Krzysztof SQ5NWI wrote...

                      > SQ5MRF-4>APDS01,WIDE2-2,qAR,SR5NRF
                      > :=/4,w.Serg#@:6Test dsDIGI/Telemetry ON sq5mrf@... op.Andrzej

                      You said "fixed object moving"... if it was an object, there would be a
                      semi-colon for the packet type identifier, followed by the name of the
                      object. Do you perhaps mean "fixed station moving"?

                      http://aprs.fi/?c=raw&call=SQ5MRF*&limit=1000

                      Strangely, I don't see anything from SQ5MRF-4 that has made it to an iGate
                      recently, but there are beacons from SQ5MRF-9, SQ5MRF-10 and SQ5MRF-13.

                      http://aprs.fi/info/SQ5MRF%2A
                      http://aprs.fi/info/?call=SQ5MRF-4

                      Going back 22 days, SQ5MRF-4 was beaconing as a digipeater.
                      I couldn't see any objects generated by it. Are there any more recent
                      examples, or better yet, one that is happening right now?

                      73 es cul - Keith VE7GDH
                      --
                      "I may be lost, but I know exactly where I am!"


                      ------------------------------------

                      Yahoo! Groups Links
                    • Krzysztof SQ5NWI
                      So you already know that it works fine. :-) -- Regards, Krzysztof SQ5NWI ... From: aprsisce@yahoogroups.com [mailto:aprsisce@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Lynn
                      Message 10 of 10 , Aug 30, 2012
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                        So you already know that it works fine. :-)
                        --
                        Regards,

                        Krzysztof
                        SQ5NWI


                        -----Original Message-----
                        From: aprsisce@yahoogroups.com [mailto:aprsisce@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf
                        Of Lynn W Deffenbaugh (Mr)
                        Sent: Thursday, August 30, 2012 3:32 PM
                        To: aprsisce@yahoogroups.com
                        Subject: Re: [SPAM] [aprsisce] Fixed object moving

                        Keith, I was also confused by the pair (age and object) of red herrings
                        (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Red_herring). Apparently this station was
                        only active a LONG time ago and the packet was captured at that time.
                        Lucky for me, there are other APDS01 users out there that can be found with
                        a Control-G FilterTest of u/APDS01. SP9PEE-2 is the one I chose because it
                        was showing a speed. After the fix, it is now showing an altitude.

                        And in the process of doing that, I also noted that the platform was wrong
                        so I corrected for Bob's lack of attention to case details from
                        http://www.aprs.org/aprs11/tocalls.txt

                        > APDSXX SP9UOB for dsDigi and ds-tracker

                        XX (literal) doesn't mean the same thing as xx (variable) when it is fed to
                        a program! Why do computers have to be so LITERAL? (Note: I also adopted
                        the dsDIGI/dsTRACKER spelling from how the polish users are referring to it
                        on their own forums. Not how Bob presents it in the toCall specs).

                        Lynn (D) - KJ4ERJ - Author of APRSISCE for Windows Mobile and Win32

                        On 8/30/2012 8:44 AM, Keith VE7GDH wrote:
                        > Krzysztof SQ5NWI wrote...
                        >
                        >> SQ5MRF-4>APDS01,WIDE2-2,qAR,SR5NRF
                        >> :=/4,w.Serg#@:6Test dsDIGI/Telemetry ON sq5mrf@... op.Andrzej
                        > You said "fixed object moving"... if it was an object, there would be
                        > a semi-colon for the packet type identifier, followed by the name of
                        > the object. Do you perhaps mean "fixed station moving"?
                        >
                        > http://aprs.fi/?c=raw&call=SQ5MRF*&limit=1000
                        >
                        > Strangely, I don't see anything from SQ5MRF-4 that has made it to an
                        > iGate recently, but there are beacons from SQ5MRF-9, SQ5MRF-10 and
                        > SQ5MRF-13.
                        >
                        > http://aprs.fi/info/SQ5MRF%2A
                        > http://aprs.fi/info/?call=SQ5MRF-4
                        >
                        > Going back 22 days, SQ5MRF-4 was beaconing as a digipeater.
                        > I couldn't see any objects generated by it. Are there any more recent
                        > examples, or better yet, one that is happening right now?
                        >
                        > 73 es cul - Keith VE7GDH
                        > --
                        > "I may be lost, but I know exactly where I am!"
                        >
                        >
                        > ------------------------------------
                        >
                        > Yahoo! Groups Links
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        >



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