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Re: Activating Summits (WOTA and possibly SOTA) using APRS

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  • g4ilo
    As long as you know the contact both ways is via direct RF then it would be fine as a valid contact for WOTA. In essence it is just a digital mode contact. It
    Message 1 of 12 , Jun 3, 2010
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      As long as you know the contact both ways is via direct RF then it would be fine as a valid contact for WOTA. In essence it is just a digital mode contact. It took me a while to come to that decision simply because that isn't how I envisaged APRS being used. I'm not sure if Bob Bruninga the inventor of APRS did either. If you read some of the stuff he wrote I think the idea was your position report would include a frequency and mode so people who were in range of you would know how to try to contact you using a normal voice mode on a separate channel. But as I say, I don't think there is anything wrong with what you are suggesting if you view APRS as just a digital mode for the duration of the exchange of messages and can be sure that the QSO took place entirely over RF (since repeater contacts aren't valid for WOTA.)

      I can understand your not wanting to limit your range to RF only since it is fun to see how well you can communicate from on top of a mountain. When I was last on Ling Fell where you were the other day I had the VX-8E and I received APRS packets from 400km away in Ireland.

      Personally I find APRS to be too useful when out portable to rely on RF for a connection. But I do find that using the APRS-IS connection takes away the fun element of using pure radio. You can't have it both ways, unfortunately.

      Julian, G4ILO

      --- In aprsisce@yahoogroups.com, Colin Catlin <colin2e0xsd@...> wrote:
      >
      > Thanks Lynn,
      >
      > I think that is the answer I was looking for although I can't say I
      > understood everything you said on just one read through:S.
      > I will study it in more depth.
      >
      > I think to qualify as a valid contact for the WOTA scheme it would have
      > to be only Direct RF but I wouldn't want to limit my contacts to just
      > Direct RF since I would like to see what responses I get and try to
      > encourage more use of APRS in this part of the world.
      > So just being able to Log the Contacts and see which ones qualify (and
      > present the evidence) would do me, Julian may disagree on this point.
      >
    • Colin Catlin
      Hi Julian, I agree with all your points especially that APRS shouldn t rely on RF. So I will continue to take my Smartphone running APRSISCE but when I reach
      Message 2 of 12 , Jun 3, 2010
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        Hi Julian,

        I agree with all your points especially that APRS shouldn't rely on RF.

        So I will continue to take my Smartphone running APRSISCE  but when I reach a summit I will switch the GPS to my radio and send a general CQ out on APRS over RF. I think I will send a message announcing my pressence on a Summit and that I would like replies particularly Direct RF ones, if anyone would like a simplex voice contact let them know the Bands and Modes I can work and once I have read through the messages I have received start calling them back to see which Bands and Modes work.

        I think that way I can have the best of both worlds.


        73,
        Colin.

        On 03/06/2010 12:09, g4ilo wrote:
         

        As long as you know the contact both ways is via direct RF then it would be fine as a valid contact for WOTA. In essence it is just a digital mode contact. It took me a while to come to that decision simply because that isn't how I envisaged APRS being used. I'm not sure if Bob Bruninga the inventor of APRS did either. If you read some of the stuff he wrote I think the idea was your position report would include a frequency and mode so people who were in range of you would know how to try to contact you using a normal voice mode on a separate channel. But as I say, I don't think there is anything wrong with what you are suggesting if you view APRS as just a digital mode for the duration of the exchange of messages and can be sure that the QSO took place entirely over RF (since repeater contacts aren't valid for WOTA.)

        I can understand your not wanting to limit your range to RF only since it is fun to see how well you can communicate from on top of a mountain. When I was last on Ling Fell where you were the other day I had the VX-8E and I received APRS packets from 400km away in Ireland.

        Personally I find APRS to be too useful when out portable to rely on RF for a connection. But I do find that using the APRS-IS connection takes away the fun element of using pure radio. You can't have it both ways, unfortunately.

        Julian, G4ILO

        --- In aprsisce@yahoogroups.com, Colin Catlin <colin2e0xsd@...> wrote:
        >
        > Thanks Lynn,
        >
        > I think that is the answer I was looking for although I can't say I
        > understood everything you said on just one read through:S.
        > I will study it in more depth.
        >
        > I think to qualify as a valid contact for the WOTA scheme it would have
        > to be only Direct RF but I wouldn't want to limit my contacts to just
        > Direct RF since I would like to see what responses I get and try to
        > encourage more use of APRS in this part of the world.
        > So just being able to Log the Contacts and see which ones qualify (and
        > present the evidence) would do me, Julian may disagree on this point.
        >


      • Lynn W. Deffenbaugh
        I don t know if you ve ever used the CQSRVR on APRS, but that would be a great tool in the WOTA/SOTA arsenal. Check out http://www.aprs-is.net/CQSrvr.aspx I
        Message 3 of 12 , Jun 3, 2010
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          I don't know if you've ever used the CQSRVR on APRS, but that would be a
          great tool in the WOTA/SOTA arsenal. Check out
          http://www.aprs-is.net/CQSrvr.aspx

          I plan to build direct support for CQSRVR notification groups into
          APRSISCE/32 similar to what I have for EMAIL-2 and WHO-IS. But for now,
          just send an APRS message to CQSRVR with a body of CQ WOTA <Your text
          here>. Whoever is currently in the group will receive what you sent and
          you are then put into the group. You can send one message every 30
          minutes and are in the group for 12 hours after your last sent message.

          Lynn (D) - KJ4ERJ - Just joined the WOTA and SOTA CQSRVR groups!

          PS. The support I have planned includes the ability to "ping" a CQSRVR
          group to keep your membership alive with a pre-configured message.


          Colin Catlin wrote:
          >
          >
          > Hi Julian,
          >
          > I agree with all your points especially that APRS shouldn't rely on RF.
          >
          > So I will continue to take my Smartphone running APRSISCE but when I
          > reach a summit I will switch the GPS to my radio and send a general CQ
          > out on APRS over RF. I think I will send a message announcing my
          > pressence on a Summit and that I would like replies particularly
          > Direct RF ones, if anyone would like a simplex voice contact let them
          > know the Bands and Modes I can work and once I have read through the
          > messages I have received start calling them back to see which Bands
          > and Modes work.
          >
          > I think that way I can have the best of both worlds.
          >
          >
          > 73,
          > Colin.
          >
          > On 03/06/2010 12:09, g4ilo wrote:
          >>
          >>
          >> As long as you know the contact both ways is via direct RF then it
          >> would be fine as a valid contact for WOTA. In essence it is just a
          >> digital mode contact. It took me a while to come to that decision
          >> simply because that isn't how I envisaged APRS being used. I'm not
          >> sure if Bob Bruninga the inventor of APRS did either. If you read
          >> some of the stuff he wrote I think the idea was your position report
          >> would include a frequency and mode so people who were in range of you
          >> would know how to try to contact you using a normal voice mode on a
          >> separate channel. But as I say, I don't think there is anything wrong
          >> with what you are suggesting if you view APRS as just a digital mode
          >> for the duration of the exchange of messages and can be sure that the
          >> QSO took place entirely over RF (since repeater contacts aren't valid
          >> for WOTA.)
          >>
          >> I can understand your not wanting to limit your range to RF only
          >> since it is fun to see how well you can communicate from on top of a
          >> mountain. When I was last on Ling Fell where you were the other day I
          >> had the VX-8E and I received APRS packets from 400km away in Ireland.
          >>
          >> Personally I find APRS to be too useful when out portable to rely on
          >> RF for a connection. But I do find that using the APRS-IS connection
          >> takes away the fun element of using pure radio. You can't have it
          >> both ways, unfortunately.
          >>
          >> Julian, G4ILO
          >>
          >> --- In aprsisce@yahoogroups.com <mailto:aprsisce%40yahoogroups.com>,
          >> Colin Catlin <colin2e0xsd@...> wrote:
          >> >
          >> > Thanks Lynn,
          >> >
          >> > I think that is the answer I was looking for although I can't say I
          >> > understood everything you said on just one read through:S.
          >> > I will study it in more depth.
          >> >
          >> > I think to qualify as a valid contact for the WOTA scheme it would
          >> have
          >> > to be only Direct RF but I wouldn't want to limit my contacts to just
          >> > Direct RF since I would like to see what responses I get and try to
          >> > encourage more use of APRS in this part of the world.
          >> > So just being able to Log the Contacts and see which ones qualify (and
          >> > present the evidence) would do me, Julian may disagree on this point.
          >> >
          >>
          >
          >
          >
          >
        • Colin Catlin
          Hi Lynn, I have looked at CQSRVR and I think until you build direct support for CQSRVR notification and APRS for WOTA/SOTA activations get more widely used I
          Message 4 of 12 , Jun 3, 2010
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            Hi Lynn,

            I have looked at CQSRVR and I think until you build direct support for CQSRVR notification and APRS for WOTA/SOTA activations get more widely used I will use the method I outlined.
            I'm hoping that with a bit of encouragement APRS usage for WOTA/SOTA will take off. That is one of the reasons I would like APRS contacts to count for WOTA activations, so the profile of APRS can be raised.


            73,
            Colin.


            On 03/06/2010 15:28, Lynn W. Deffenbaugh wrote:
             

            I don't know if you've ever used the CQSRVR on APRS, but that would be a
            great tool in the WOTA/SOTA arsenal. Check out
            http://www.aprs-is.net/CQSrvr.aspx

            I plan to build direct support for CQSRVR notification groups into
            APRSISCE/32 similar to what I have for EMAIL-2 and WHO-IS. But for now,
            just send an APRS message to CQSRVR with a body of CQ WOTA <Your text
            here>. Whoever is currently in the group will receive what you sent and
            you are then put into the group. You can send one message every 30
            minutes and are in the group for 12 hours after your last sent message.

            Lynn (D) - KJ4ERJ - Just joined the WOTA and SOTA CQSRVR groups!

            PS. The support I have planned includes the ability to "ping" a CQSRVR
            group to keep your membership alive with a pre-configured message.

            Colin Catlin wrote:
            >
            >
            > Hi Julian,
            >
            > I agree with all your points especially that APRS shouldn't rely on RF.
            >
            > So I will continue to take my Smartphone running APRSISCE but when I
            > reach a summit I will switch the GPS to my radio and send a general CQ
            > out on APRS over RF. I think I will send a message announcing my
            > pressence on a Summit and that I would like replies particularly
            > Direct RF ones, if anyone would like a simplex voice contact let them
            > know the Bands and Modes I can work and once I have read through the
            > messages I have received start calling them back to see which Bands
            > and Modes work.
            >
            > I think that way I can have the best of both worlds.
            >
            >
            > 73,
            > Colin.
            >
            > On 03/06/2010 12:09, g4ilo wrote:
            >>
            >>
            >> As long as you know the contact both ways is via direct RF then it
            >> would be fine as a valid contact for WOTA. In essence it is just a
            >> digital mode contact. It took me a while to come to that decision
            >> simply because that isn't how I envisaged APRS being used. I'm not
            >> sure if Bob Bruninga the inventor of APRS did either. If you read
            >> some of the stuff he wrote I think the idea was your position report
            >> would include a frequency and mode so people who were in range of you
            >> would know how to try to contact you using a normal voice mode on a
            >> separate channel. But as I say, I don't think there is anything wrong
            >> with what you are suggesting if you view APRS as just a digital mode
            >> for the duration of the exchange of messages and can be sure that the
            >> QSO took place entirely over RF (since repeater contacts aren't valid
            >> for WOTA.)
            >>
            >> I can understand your not wanting to limit your range to RF only
            >> since it is fun to see how well you can communicate from on top of a
            >> mountain. When I was last on Ling Fell where you were the other day I
            >> had the VX-8E and I received APRS packets from 400km away in Ireland.
            >>
            >> Personally I find APRS to be too useful when out portable to rely on
            >> RF for a connection. But I do find that using the APRS-IS connection
            >> takes away the fun element of using pure radio. You can't have it
            >> both ways, unfortunately.
            >>
            >> Julian, G4ILO
            >>
            >> --- In aprsisce@yahoogroups.com <mailto:aprsisce%40yahoogroups.com>,
            >> Colin Catlin <colin2e0xsd@...> wrote:
            >> >
            >> > Thanks Lynn,
            >> >
            >> > I think that is the answer I was looking for although I can't say I
            >> > understood everything you said on just one read through:S.
            >> > I will study it in more depth.
            >> >
            >> > I think to qualify as a valid contact for the WOTA scheme it would
            >> have
            >> > to be only Direct RF but I wouldn't want to limit my contacts to just
            >> > Direct RF since I would like to see what responses I get and try to
            >> > encourage more use of APRS in this part of the world.
            >> > So just being able to Log the Contacts and see which ones qualify (and
            >> > present the evidence) would do me, Julian may disagree on this point.
            >> >
            >>
            >
            >
            >
            >


          • g4ilo
            That would be a neat idea. I had considered it before but the need to sign in at the start of the day would be a killer for me because I would never remember.
            Message 5 of 12 , Jun 3, 2010
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              That would be a neat idea. I had considered it before but the need to sign in at the start of the day would be a killer for me because I would never remember.

              The WOTA website sends a BLNWOTA bulletin message (using someone else's CGI script) whenever someone spots an activation on the website so you can receive alerts when an activation takes place. It would be nice if the activator could self-spot using APRS but that would require the WOTA server to run APRS-IS plus some custom programming to process the spot message. The shared hosting wouldn't allow it and I don't know anyone willing and able to do the programming.

              Julian, G4ILO

              --- In aprsisce@yahoogroups.com, "Lynn W. Deffenbaugh" <kj4erj@...> wrote:
              >
              > I don't know if you've ever used the CQSRVR on APRS, but that would be a
              > great tool in the WOTA/SOTA arsenal. Check out
              > http://www.aprs-is.net/CQSrvr.aspx
              >
              > I plan to build direct support for CQSRVR notification groups into
              > APRSISCE/32 similar to what I have for EMAIL-2 and WHO-IS. But for now,
              > just send an APRS message to CQSRVR with a body of CQ WOTA <Your text
              > here>. Whoever is currently in the group will receive what you sent and
              > you are then put into the group. You can send one message every 30
              > minutes and are in the group for 12 hours after your last sent message.
              >
              > Lynn (D) - KJ4ERJ - Just joined the WOTA and SOTA CQSRVR groups!
              >
              > PS. The support I have planned includes the ability to "ping" a CQSRVR
              > group to keep your membership alive with a pre-configured message.
              >
            • Lynn W. Deffenbaugh
              So, if APRSISCE/32 supported generating bulletins via RF with a reasonable path, you could self-spot from the top of the summit, right? And the spots would
              Message 6 of 12 , Jun 3, 2010
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                So, if APRSISCE/32 supported generating bulletins via RF with a
                reasonable path, you could self-spot from the top of the summit, right?
                And the spots would also go into APRS-IS if you've got Internet up
                there, so anyone monitoring on that side would also receive it?

                Can you send me a few samples of the bulletins? I've got a ToDo list
                for that as well and it would dove-tail quite nicely with the fledgling
                object support that's in the XML right now.

                Lynn (D) - KJ4ERJ

                g4ilo wrote:
                > That would be a neat idea. I had considered it before but the need to sign in at the start of the day would be a killer for me because I would never remember.
                >
                > The WOTA website sends a BLNWOTA bulletin message (using someone else's CGI script) whenever someone spots an activation on the website so you can receive alerts when an activation takes place. It would be nice if the activator could self-spot using APRS but that would require the WOTA server to run APRS-IS plus some custom programming to process the spot message. The shared hosting wouldn't allow it and I don't know anyone willing and able to do the programming.
                >
                > Julian, G4ILO
                >
                > --- In aprsisce@yahoogroups.com, "Lynn W. Deffenbaugh" <kj4erj@...> wrote:
                >
                >> I don't know if you've ever used the CQSRVR on APRS, but that would be a
                >> great tool in the WOTA/SOTA arsenal. Check out
                >> http://www.aprs-is.net/CQSrvr.aspx
                >>
                >> I plan to build direct support for CQSRVR notification groups into
                >> APRSISCE/32 similar to what I have for EMAIL-2 and WHO-IS. But for now,
                >> just send an APRS message to CQSRVR with a body of CQ WOTA <Your text
                >> here>. Whoever is currently in the group will receive what you sent and
                >> you are then put into the group. You can send one message every 30
                >> minutes and are in the group for 12 hours after your last sent message.
                >>
                >> Lynn (D) - KJ4ERJ - Just joined the WOTA and SOTA CQSRVR groups!
                >>
                >> PS. The support I have planned includes the ability to "ping" a CQSRVR
                >> group to keep your membership alive with a pre-configured message.
                >>
                >>
              • g4ilo
                You can usually see them in the Other Groups sectoin here: http://aprs.fi/bulletin/ Here is one just in: WOTA BLNWOTA G0VWP/P LDW-184 (Lingmoor Fell) 144.325
                Message 7 of 12 , Jun 4, 2010
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                  You can usually see them in the Other Groups sectoin here: http://aprs.fi/bulletin/

                  Here is one just in:

                  WOTA BLNWOTA G0VWP/P LDW-184 (Lingmoor Fell) 144.325 ssb

                  The "call" it is sent from is WOTA. To get it to be received by APRSISCE I have to put b/WOTA in the filter field. For this to work for bulletins sent by individuals you would need to be able to filter on the bulletin ID and I couldn't find a way of doing that.

                  To a certain extent, if a WOTA activator is carrying APRS then the bulletin is redundant because anyone can see when they reach the summit anyway. Before I ever get to the top I've usually had a message from Colin asking where I'm going, when I expect to get there and what frequency he should listen on.

                  What I was trying to provide was a way for people to receive by APRS spots posted on the website that would otherwise only be available to other people who were looking at the website.

                  Julian, G4ILO

                  --- In aprsisce@yahoogroups.com, "Lynn W. Deffenbaugh" <kj4erj@...> wrote:
                  >
                  > So, if APRSISCE/32 supported generating bulletins via RF with a
                  > reasonable path, you could self-spot from the top of the summit, right?
                  > And the spots would also go into APRS-IS if you've got Internet up
                  > there, so anyone monitoring on that side would also receive it?
                  >
                  > Can you send me a few samples of the bulletins? I've got a ToDo list
                  > for that as well and it would dove-tail quite nicely with the fledgling
                  > object support that's in the XML right now.
                  >
                  > Lynn (D) - KJ4ERJ
                  >
                  > g4ilo wrote:
                  > > That would be a neat idea. I had considered it before but the need to sign in at the start of the day would be a killer for me because I would never remember.
                  > >
                  > > The WOTA website sends a BLNWOTA bulletin message (using someone else's CGI script) whenever someone spots an activation on the website so you can receive alerts when an activation takes place. It would be nice if the activator could self-spot using APRS but that would require the WOTA server to run APRS-IS plus some custom programming to process the spot message. The shared hosting wouldn't allow it and I don't know anyone willing and able to do the programming.
                  > >
                  > > Julian, G4ILO
                  > >
                  > > --- In aprsisce@yahoogroups.com, "Lynn W. Deffenbaugh" <kj4erj@> wrote:
                  > >
                  > >> I don't know if you've ever used the CQSRVR on APRS, but that would be a
                  > >> great tool in the WOTA/SOTA arsenal. Check out
                  > >> http://www.aprs-is.net/CQSrvr.aspx
                  > >>
                  > >> I plan to build direct support for CQSRVR notification groups into
                  > >> APRSISCE/32 similar to what I have for EMAIL-2 and WHO-IS. But for now,
                  > >> just send an APRS message to CQSRVR with a body of CQ WOTA <Your text
                  > >> here>. Whoever is currently in the group will receive what you sent and
                  > >> you are then put into the group. You can send one message every 30
                  > >> minutes and are in the group for 12 hours after your last sent message.
                  > >>
                  > >> Lynn (D) - KJ4ERJ - Just joined the WOTA and SOTA CQSRVR groups!
                  > >>
                  > >> PS. The support I have planned includes the ability to "ping" a CQSRVR
                  > >> group to keep your membership alive with a pre-configured message.
                  > >>
                  > >>
                  >
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