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Re: [aprsisce] Buddies View

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  • Kai Gunter Brandt
    ... Probably not on-topic but please do not use the ALL that UI-View is using on messages/traffic. ALL is a group in APRS so if i send a message to ALL
    Message 1 of 14 , May 3, 2010
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      On 05/03/2010 01:19 PM, Lynn W. Deffenbaugh wrote:
      > First, yes, the View options are not persistent. It defaults to All on
      > program startup. There have been way too many support requests on the
      > UI-View group for people that filtered their view and forgot about it in
      > the intervening weeks and complained that "no stations were showing up"
      > even though "the terminal window showed them receiving packets". I've
      > toyed with making it persistent, but...
      >

      Probably not "on-topic" but please do not use the "ALL" that UI-View is
      using on messages/traffic.

      "ALL" is a group in APRS so if i send a message to "ALL" then you should
      see this in messages to you just at a message to "CQ" etc.

      So by filtering stations to show everything maybe another word should be
      used?

      Kai Gunter
      LA3QMA
    • Lynn W. Deffenbaugh
      I ll take author s prerogative on this one and say that All under View stays. If it were under Messaging, I d agree with your point. Otherwise, I seriously
      Message 2 of 14 , May 3, 2010
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        I'll take author's prerogative on this one and say that "All" under View
        stays. If it were under Messaging, I'd agree with your point.
        Otherwise, I seriously doubt that anyone will confuse the two.
        Especially with the company that "All" under View keeps (Ambiguous,
        Buddies, Duplicates, Invalid, SkyWarn, Telemetry, ...). It's a View
        filter, not a Messages filter.

        Lynn (D) - KJ4ERJ

        Kai Gunter Brandt wrote:
        > On 05/03/2010 01:19 PM, Lynn W. Deffenbaugh wrote:
        >
        >> First, yes, the View options are not persistent. It defaults to All on
        >> program startup. There have been way too many support requests on the
        >> UI-View group for people that filtered their view and forgot about it in
        >> the intervening weeks and complained that "no stations were showing up"
        >> even though "the terminal window showed them receiving packets". I've
        >> toyed with making it persistent, but...
        >>
        >>
        >
        > Probably not "on-topic" but please do not use the "ALL" that UI-View is
        > using on messages/traffic.
        >
        > "ALL" is a group in APRS so if i send a message to "ALL" then you should
        > see this in messages to you just at a message to "CQ" etc.
        >
        > So by filtering stations to show everything maybe another word should be
        > used?
        >
        > Kai Gunter
        > LA3QMA
        >
      • g4mhj@btinternet.com
        I have now done some more testing with the filters and range. Using Range 0 (zero) and having a filter as b/G3ZCV* b/K0ELE* b/G3OJZ* the only stations listed
        Message 3 of 14 , May 3, 2010
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          I have now done some more testing with the filters and range.

          Using Range 0 (zero) and having a filter as b/G3ZCV* b/K0ELE* b/G3OJZ* the only stations listed and shown on the maps where those three. I was receiving all stations until I restarted the program though.

          Keeping the default range of 500 and using the same filter setting I received many stations listed but only the three again. Except for the Echo-Link EL-480448 station.
          Here is a packet trace for it:
          WinMain:2010-05-03T13:25:23 IS SP3CMX-10>APWSW2,TCPIP*,qAC,T2POLAND:;EL-480448*111111z5131.43N/00013.47Wn EchoLink M0GPQ-L 144.975MHz simplex PL 88.5Hz

          On the trace screen is there a way of doing a Find? I always thought Ctrl+F worked but it didn't seem to on this XP Laptop. In the end I copied it into Notebook to find the EL station.

          I am not troubled by these EL stations but just wondered how they were slipping through to the map.

          I know that K0ELE and G3ZCV do not use Echo Link but I cannot say for G3OJZ which was just a random choice for experimentation purposes. During the test G3OJZ was -7 driving about.

          Bob

          PS I have also updated the Dev version since my first message on topic.


          --- In aprsisce@yahoogroups.com, "Lynn W. Deffenbaugh" <kj4erj@...> wrote:
          >
          > First, yes, the View options are not persistent. It defaults to All on
          > program startup. There have been way too many support requests on the
          > UI-View group for people that filtered their view and forgot about it in
          > the intervening weeks and complained that "no stations were showing up"
          > even though "the terminal window showed them receiving packets". I've
          > toyed with making it persistent, but...
          >
          > My plan is for people to configure the filter they want to see. If you
          > set the Configure / General / Range to 0 (zero), then you'll only get
          > things from the APRS-IS that match your filter (assuming you don't have
          > an RF interface active). So, if you want to watch only particular
          > stations, set up the filter that way. Since the Range is used as you
          > pan the map around, zero will also prevent picking up other stations as
          > you move around.
          >
          > As for the Echo Link Nodes, which ones are you seeing? Is it possible
          > that one of your buddies are transmitting those as an object? Filters
          > are done at the APRS-IS level, so I can change their behavior, but I can
          > help interpret what's happening if you give me some examples of the
          > packets that you do not expect to receive.
          >
          > With the development version, simply open up Enables / View Logs /
          > Packets and wait for one of the "bonus" stations to show up. The raw
          > packet will be in there and you can select / copy (Right Mouse popup)
          > the packet and send it along with your current filter to the list and
          > we'll see what might be happening. Of course, this offer only applies
          > if you're running a 0 range! Otherwise, you will be getting "extra" stuff.
          >
          > Lynn (D) - KJ4ERJ
          >
          > g4mhj@... wrote:
          > > I am just started trying out Filters for the first time and have added the following test line in Filters.
          > >
          > > b/G3OJZ* b/K0ELE* b/G3ZCV*
          > >
          > > I have assumed "b" stands for buddies having cribbed the format off another post.
          > >
          > > Both the G stations are appearing. K0ELE-7 is not available at present but why am I seeing EL (Echo Link Nodes) stations. Is there a way of preventing them showing on the filtered map when using Buddies?
          > >
          > > Also if I exit and restart I lose the Buddies in View setting as it goes back to ALL. Is that what is intended?
          > >
          > > I am using the Dev Version 2010/4/25 22:51
          > >
          > > Bob..
          > >
          > >
          >
        • Lynn W. Deffenbaugh
          ... APRS-IS doesn t clear un-respecified filters when a filter is changed. If you disable & re-enable APRS-IS, it will clear the residual filter on a filter
          Message 4 of 14 , May 3, 2010
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            g4mhj@... wrote:
            > Using Range 0 (zero) and having a filter as b/G3ZCV* b/K0ELE* b/G3OJZ* the only stations listed and shown on the maps where those three. I was receiving all stations until I restarted the program though.
            >

            APRS-IS doesn't clear un-respecified filters when a filter is changed.
            If you disable & re-enable APRS-IS, it will clear the residual filter on
            a filter change. Maybe I'll see about doing that when/if I detect a
            configuration filter change...

            > Keeping the default range of 500 and using the same filter setting I received many stations listed but only the three again. Except for the Echo-Link EL-480448 station.
            > Here is a packet trace for it:
            > WinMain:2010-05-03T13:25:23 IS SP3CMX-10>APWSW2,TCPIP*,qAC,T2POLAND:;EL-480448*111111z5131.43N/00013.47Wn EchoLink M0GPQ-L 144.975MHz simplex PL 88.5Hz
            >

            I'm not clear on this one. With the 500 range, you still only received
            your three buddies (b/G3OJZ* b/K0ELE* b/G3ZCV*) and the EL-480448? Or
            were there others scrolling by in the station list?

            > On the trace screen is there a way of doing a Find? I always thought Ctrl+F worked but it didn't seem to on this XP Laptop. In the end I copied it into Notebook to find the EL station.
            >

            Not yet. I've got Find on my ToDo list. I've wanted it numerous times,
            but always when I wasn't in a position to just implement it. It'll
            hopefully be coming soon. Ctrl-F sure seems like a reasonable keystroke
            to trigger it as well. Thanks for the suggestion.

            > I am not troubled by these EL stations but just wondered how they were slipping through to the map.
            >
            > I know that K0ELE and G3ZCV do not use Echo Link but I cannot say for G3OJZ which was just a random choice for experimentation purposes. During the test G3OJZ was -7 driving about.
            >

            You've got me curious now as well, but without enough time until next
            Monday to satiate my curiosity. Bummer.

            > PS I have also updated the Dev version since my first message on topic.
            >

            In the absolutely latest development build, you can double-click on the
            APRS OK pane and the popup will show the packets per hour (up to 8, most
            recent on the left) received from the various connections. It's a
            string of numbers that will sometimes appear below the most recent
            status from the port. This is the same string of numbers that appears
            in the station popup for individual stations, but those have IS+RF if
            you have both port types active (again, hourly count, up to 8, most
            recent on the left). This is only in APRSIS32, not APRSISCE.

            >
            > --- In aprsisce@yahoogroups.com, "Lynn W. Deffenbaugh" <kj4erj@...> wrote:
            >
            >> First, yes, the View options are not persistent. It defaults to All on
            >> program startup. There have been way too many support requests on the
            >> UI-View group for people that filtered their view and forgot about it in
            >> the intervening weeks and complained that "no stations were showing up"
            >> even though "the terminal window showed them receiving packets". I've
            >> toyed with making it persistent, but...
            >>
            >> My plan is for people to configure the filter they want to see. If you
            >> set the Configure / General / Range to 0 (zero), then you'll only get
            >> things from the APRS-IS that match your filter (assuming you don't have
            >> an RF interface active). So, if you want to watch only particular
            >> stations, set up the filter that way. Since the Range is used as you
            >> pan the map around, zero will also prevent picking up other stations as
            >> you move around.
            >>
            >> As for the Echo Link Nodes, which ones are you seeing? Is it possible
            >> that one of your buddies are transmitting those as an object? Filters
            >> are done at the APRS-IS level, so I can change their behavior, but I can
            >> help interpret what's happening if you give me some examples of the
            >> packets that you do not expect to receive.
            >>
            >> With the development version, simply open up Enables / View Logs /
            >> Packets and wait for one of the "bonus" stations to show up. The raw
            >> packet will be in there and you can select / copy (Right Mouse popup)
            >> the packet and send it along with your current filter to the list and
            >> we'll see what might be happening. Of course, this offer only applies
            >> if you're running a 0 range! Otherwise, you will be getting "extra" stuff.
            >>
            >> Lynn (D) - KJ4ERJ
            >>
            >> g4mhj@... wrote:
            >>
            >>> I am just started trying out Filters for the first time and have added the following test line in Filters.
            >>>
            >>> b/G3OJZ* b/K0ELE* b/G3ZCV*
            >>>
            >>> I have assumed "b" stands for buddies having cribbed the format off another post.
            >>>
            >>> Both the G stations are appearing. K0ELE-7 is not available at present but why am I seeing EL (Echo Link Nodes) stations. Is there a way of preventing them showing on the filtered map when using Buddies?
            >>>
            >>> Also if I exit and restart I lose the Buddies in View setting as it goes back to ALL. Is that what is intended?
            >>>
            >>> I am using the Dev Version 2010/4/25 22:51
            >>>
            >>> Bob..
            >>>
            >>>
            >>>
          • g4mhj@btinternet.com
            ... Sorry if I didnt make myself clear. With range 500 and my 3 station filter, I was seeing lots of stations on the left station list but only the 4 stations
            Message 5 of 14 , May 3, 2010
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              > > Keeping the default range of 500 and using the same filter setting I received many stations listed but only the three again. Except for the Echo-Link EL-480448 station.
              > > Here is a packet trace for it:
              > > WinMain:2010-05-03T13:25:23 IS SP3CMX-10>APWSW2,TCPIP*,qAC,T2POLAND:;EL-480448*111111z5131.43N/00013.47Wn EchoLink M0GPQ-L 144.975MHz simplex PL 88.5Hz
              > >
              >
              > I'm not clear on this one. With the 500 range, you still only received
              > your three buddies (b/G3OJZ* b/K0ELE* b/G3ZCV*) and the EL-480448? Or
              > were there others scrolling by in the station list?

              Sorry if I didnt make myself clear.

              With range 500 and my 3 station filter, I was seeing lots of stations on the left station list but only the 4 stations on the map.

              Bob..
            • Lynn W. Deffenbaugh
              Puzzle explained. And it s attributable to a lazy programmer who is planning to revamp Buddy support in some future revision. Currently, I identify a Buddy
              Message 6 of 14 , May 3, 2010
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                Puzzle explained. And it's attributable to a lazy programmer who is
                planning to revamp Buddy support in some future revision. Currently, I
                identify a Buddy station by:

                1) For any new station, locate the dash (-) if any. Consider the space
                before the dash as the "base" callsign.
                2) Search the filter in its entirety for any instance of that base
                callsign. It doesn't even look for b/ whatever.

                This means that the EL-480448 looks like a base callsign of "EL".
                Your filter includes b/K0ELE* which includes the EL and voila, the
                EchoLink station appears as a Buddy.

                I'll get this fixed, probably sooner than I revamp the Buddy support.
                I'll probably look for b/<BaseCall> up to the length of the base
                callsign and then check if the next character is a *. I may also have
                to check for the entire call-SSID as a buddy or friend, just in case.

                Lynn (D) - KJ4ERJ - Explainer of Mysteries (and Lazy Programmer)

                PS. For those that say "why not just run it through a regex", remember,
                APRSISCE/32 is not your average C#.NET application. I code to Win32
                without MFC, Standard Class Libraries, .NET, or any other excess
                baggage. Why you might ask? Because that's how I like to code and I'm
                doing this for the fun of it!


                g4mhj@... wrote:
                >>> Keeping the default range of 500 and using the same filter setting I received many stations listed but only the three again. Except for the Echo-Link EL-480448 station.
                >>> Here is a packet trace for it:
                >>> WinMain:2010-05-03T13:25:23 IS SP3CMX-10>APWSW2,TCPIP*,qAC,T2POLAND:;EL-480448*111111z5131.43N/00013.47Wn EchoLink M0GPQ-L 144.975MHz simplex PL 88.5Hz
                >>>
                >>>
                >> I'm not clear on this one. With the 500 range, you still only received
                >> your three buddies (b/G3OJZ* b/K0ELE* b/G3ZCV*) and the EL-480448? Or
                >> were there others scrolling by in the station list?
                >>
                >
                > Sorry if I didnt make myself clear.
                >
                > With range 500 and my 3 station filter, I was seeing lots of stations on the left station list but only the 4 stations on the map.
                >
                > Bob..
                >
              • Lynn W. Deffenbaugh
                Bob (G4MHJ) was having an issue with an EchoLink node (EL-480448) showing up on the map as a View / Buddy even though his buddies were only b/G3OJZ* b/K0ELE*
                Message 7 of 14 , May 4, 2010
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                  Bob (G4MHJ) was having an issue with an EchoLink node (EL-480448)
                  showing up on the map as a "View / Buddy" even though his buddies were
                  only b/G3OJZ* b/K0ELE* b/G3ZCV*. The problem was due to my lazy
                  implementation of buddy detection (EL is inside K0ELE*). I believe I
                  have this fixed in the development version, so if you (Bob) notice this
                  message, give it another try after downloading 2010/05/04 18:29. My new
                  implementation detects buddies (b/...) and friends (f/...) in your
                  filter. As a side effect, there's now a Filter log that you can see in
                  Enables / View Logs / Filter if you have buddies or if the program
                  detects an issue with your filter string. Note that the development
                  version might complain about the My Range (m/) filter and any negated
                  (-filter) that you might have. This is fixed, but dinner was ready and
                  I didn't bother with re-releasing the development version.

                  Also, for those of you waiting patiently (anxiously?) for Find Station,
                  it's also included in the latest development build. Look for Screen /
                  Tracking / Find or just hit Ctrl-F. A popup will appear populated with
                  all known stations. Select one and hit Find, or just type some
                  characters. If a single hit results, that station will be centered and
                  tracked. If multiple hits result, the drop-down is changed to show only
                  those stations. If no hits are found, and the entered callsign is NOT a
                  wildcard (ends in *), then you are asked if you want to wait for the
                  station. If you say yes, it will be as if you were tracking that
                  station in your previous instance and APRSISCE/32 will center on it as
                  soon as a beacon is received.

                  The interesting thing is if there's a callsign that is beaconing with
                  and without an -SSID. Consider my own stations:

                  KJ4ERJ, KJ4ERJ-1, KJ4ERJ-2, KJ4ERJ-12, KJ4ERJ-AL, KJ4ERJ-AP

                  If I enter just KJ4ERJ, it will exactly match one and I'll go straight
                  to that station. What if I really wanted to see all of the stations
                  with that base callsign? I should enter the wildcard KJ4ERJ*. That
                  will populate the list with all KJ4ERJ stations with and without -SSIDs
                  unless of course, there's only one. If you want to see ony the stations
                  WITH an -SSID, enter KJ4ERJ-* (note the extra dash). At last, I think
                  it sould work that way!

                  Lynn (D) - KJ4ERJ - Author of APRSISCE for Windows Mobile and Win32
                • g4mhj@btinternet.com
                  Well spotted regarding the K0ELE EL-480448 link. So far after an hours monitoring no EL-* stations are appearing on the map with the same filter as before.
                  Message 8 of 14 , May 5, 2010
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                    Well spotted regarding the K0ELE EL-480448 link. So far after an hours monitoring no EL-* stations are appearing on the map with the same filter as before. EL-347953 appeared in the station list with all the other callsigns/objects. Also, and this was unreported to you previously by me, I am now not seeing on the map frequency calls/objects such as 438.8375- . The "-" must have previously been allowed through presumably?

                    The Find feature, especially Ctrl-F is a great enhancement and appears to work well.

                    Great work Lynn

                    Bob G4MHJ

                    --- In aprsisce@yahoogroups.com, "Lynn W. Deffenbaugh" <kj4erj@...> wrote:
                    >
                    > Bob (G4MHJ) was having an issue with an EchoLink node (EL-480448)
                    > showing up on the map as a "View / Buddy" even though his buddies were
                    > only b/G3OJZ* b/K0ELE* b/G3ZCV*. The problem was due to my lazy
                    > implementation of buddy detection (EL is inside K0ELE*). I believe I
                    > have this fixed in the development version, so if you (Bob) notice this
                    > message, give it another try after downloading 2010/05/04 18:29. My new
                    > implementation detects buddies (b/...) and friends (f/...) in your
                    > filter. As a side effect, there's now a Filter log that you can see in
                    > Enables / View Logs / Filter if you have buddies or if the program
                    > detects an issue with your filter string. Note that the development
                    > version might complain about the My Range (m/) filter and any negated
                    > (-filter) that you might have. This is fixed, but dinner was ready and
                    > I didn't bother with re-releasing the development version.
                    >
                    > Also, for those of you waiting patiently (anxiously?) for Find Station,
                    > it's also included in the latest development build. Look for Screen /
                    > Tracking / Find or just hit Ctrl-F. A popup will appear populated with
                    > all known stations. Select one and hit Find, or just type some
                    > characters. If a single hit results, that station will be centered and
                    > tracked. If multiple hits result, the drop-down is changed to show only
                    > those stations. If no hits are found, and the entered callsign is NOT a
                    > wildcard (ends in *), then you are asked if you want to wait for the
                    > station. If you say yes, it will be as if you were tracking that
                    > station in your previous instance and APRSISCE/32 will center on it as
                    > soon as a beacon is received.
                    >
                    > The interesting thing is if there's a callsign that is beaconing with
                    > and without an -SSID. Consider my own stations:
                    >
                    > KJ4ERJ, KJ4ERJ-1, KJ4ERJ-2, KJ4ERJ-12, KJ4ERJ-AL, KJ4ERJ-AP
                    >
                    > If I enter just KJ4ERJ, it will exactly match one and I'll go straight
                    > to that station. What if I really wanted to see all of the stations
                    > with that base callsign? I should enter the wildcard KJ4ERJ*. That
                    > will populate the list with all KJ4ERJ stations with and without -SSIDs
                    > unless of course, there's only one. If you want to see ony the stations
                    > WITH an -SSID, enter KJ4ERJ-* (note the extra dash). At last, I think
                    > it sould work that way!
                    >
                    > Lynn (D) - KJ4ERJ - Author of APRSISCE for Windows Mobile and Win32
                    >
                  • Fred Hillhouse
                    Also, for those of you waiting patiently (anxiously?) for Find Station, it s also included in the latest development build. Look for Screen / Tracking / Find
                    Message 9 of 14 , May 5, 2010
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                      Also, for those of you waiting patiently (anxiously?) for Find Station,
                      it's also included in the latest development build. Look for Screen /
                      Tracking / Find or just hit Ctrl-F. A popup will appear populated with
                      all known stations. Select one and hit Find, or just type some
                      characters. If a single hit results, that station will be centered and
                      tracked. If multiple hits result, the drop-down is changed to show only
                      those stations. If no hits are found, and the entered callsign is NOT a
                      wildcard (ends in *), then you are asked if you want to wait for the
                      station. If you say yes, it will be as if you were tracking that
                      station in your previous instance and APRSISCE/32 will center on it as
                      soon as a beacon is received.
                       
                      Hi Lynn,
                       
                      Will you be adding a last instance on the servers option?
                       
                      Thanks!
                      Fred, N7FMH
                    • Lynn W. Deffenbaugh
                      ... If I understand your question to be if I ll be doing some sort of query to some server somewhere as to where that particular server last thought the
                      Message 10 of 14 , May 5, 2010
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                        Fred Hillhouse wrote:
                        > Will you be adding a last instance on the servers option?
                        >
                        > Thanks!
                        > Fred, N7FMH

                        If I understand your question to be if I'll be doing some sort of query
                        to some server somewhere as to where that particular server last thought
                        the station was, the answer is no. I'm coding a pure APRS-IS client and
                        the baseline APRS-IS doesn't support queries. To paraphrase a famous
                        person, the APRS-IS is "a series of pipes" through which the packets
                        flow. I'm trying to avoid depending on any infrastructure like
                        findu.com or aprs.fi that may or may not "always" be there.

                        If your question was something else, can you interpret it for me?

                        Lynn (D) - KJ4ERJ
                      • Fred Hillhouse
                        ... If I understand your question to be if I ll be doing some sort of query to some server somewhere as to where that particular server last thought the
                        Message 11 of 14 , May 5, 2010
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                          Fred Hillhouse wrote:
                          > Will you be adding a last instance on the servers option?
                          >
                          > Thanks!
                          > Fred, N7FMH

                          If I understand your question to be if I'll be doing some sort of query
                          to some server somewhere as to where that particular server last thought
                          the station was, the answer is no. I'm coding a pure APRS-IS client and
                          the baseline APRS-IS doesn't support queries. To paraphrase a famous
                          person, the APRS-IS is "a series of pipes" through which the packets
                          flow. I'm trying to avoid depending on any infrastructure like
                          findu.com or aprs.fi that may or may not "always" be there.

                          If your question was something else, can you interpret it for me?

                          Lynn (D) - KJ4ERJ
                           

                          You understood my question. I thought the APRS-IS servers stored data for a period of time but I seem to remember that findu.com and aprs.fi store the data. Is that correct?

                          Thanks!

                          Fred

                        • Lynn W. Deffenbaugh
                          Some APRS-IS servers have a 30 minute buffer that they ll dump at you with no filtering if you connect to a certain port. This port is output only, so it
                          Message 12 of 14 , May 5, 2010
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                            Some APRS-IS servers have a 30 minute buffer that they'll dump at you
                            with no filtering if you connect to a certain port. This port is output
                            only, so it can't be used for normal beaconing, messaging, telemetry or
                            anything else you'd want to send in to APRS-IS. That's the only
                            "database" of packets I'm aware of in the -IS proper.

                            You are correct that findu.com, aprs.fi, and maybe a few other sites
                            actually run a database and put a pretty web interface onto the
                            resulting data. It's these sites, and their integral APIs, that I'm
                            staying away from as long as I can. There are other APRS clients (note
                            the lack of -IS) that use these APIs to inject their packets and query
                            data for display, but those clients won't work on RF (for IGating in
                            either direction) nor as true players in the -IS arena, at least, not
                            that I know of. In some cases, receiving an ACK from a message to one
                            of these API-based clients doesn't even mean that the client received
                            the message, it only means the server got the message. (Don't quote me
                            on that last bit, it's my supposition not necessarily based on factual
                            knowledge of their internal operation).

                            Lynn (D) - KJ4ERJ - Author of APRSISCE for Windows Mobile and Win32


                            Fred Hillhouse wrote:
                            >
                            >
                            > You understood my question. I thought the APRS-IS servers stored data
                            > for a period of time but I seem to remember that findu.com and aprs.fi
                            > store the data. Is that correct?
                            >
                            > Thanks!
                            >
                            > Fred
                            >
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