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Re: +/- Filters (was: ... Something else ...)

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  • apenadragon
    Here s my vision. 24/7 I want to gate any IS only station to RF so long as it s within 15 miles of me(W2CXM-1), or perhaps an area filter for Tompkins County,
    Message 1 of 35 , Sep 26, 2011
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      Here's my vision.

      24/7 I want to gate any IS only station to RF so long as it's within 15 miles of me(W2CXM-1), or perhaps an area filter for Tompkins County, NY. (roughly)


      For special events I would like to add a filter to cover an area.
      within that area, I need it to feed IS only staitons (smart phones) over RF. I also need to get the extreme north end of that area (which will get gated via an IGate at the north end, or one of about 3 actually) back into local RF for the Net Control station (who doesn't have IS connectivity, Yet, still working on that one) BUT I don't need that to happen, if it is already hitting the local RF. I don't want duplicate, or historical packets hitting the local RF via IS-RF gating if it's already in the local RF anyway. We'll have times when a packet will make it back to the south end, from the north, but not all. The Digi's at both ends don't always hear each other, and sometimes a mobile station will hit the southern RF without help from the northern Digi, but not always.

      (maybe I just need to move to someplace with flat terrain, instead of all these hills and valleys)

      The problem is we have some holes in the area between the southern, and the northern end of this area where I filled in some of that by parking my mobile set up, and gatting anything that my mobile heard to IS. Problem is, Net Control couldn't get any of these stations via RF(including myself), so it didn't really do them any good in the first place.


      Honestly, the easiest solution is to get the first one out of the way, and then continue to poke at the Net Control person to let me take over APRS Net Control and hook my set up to my smart phone for internet connection, and therefor IS connection. Or to get his own, but I don't see the latter happening, And getting a decent portable digi parked someplace for the middle of the course.

      Confused yet?

      Adam
      KC2ANT


      --- In aprsisce@yahoogroups.com, "Lynn W Deffenbaugh (Mr)" <kj4erj@...> wrote:
      >
      > Oh, and is that "heard on RF" heard by YOU, or by ANYONE? If someone 15
      > miles away IGates an RF packet to the -IS and you haven't heard that
      > station, do you want to gate it out to your local RF?
      >
      > Can you describe more generically the -IS to RF IGating service (the
      > whys and whats) that you're after so I can get the scope of the forest
      > instead of the leaves on the tree? I feel like I'm a blind man trying
      > to describe an elephant by feeling his ear (ok, I'm also mixing my
      > metaphores rather horrendously too).
      >
      > Lynn (D) - KJ4ERJ - Author of APRSISCE for Windows Mobile and Win32
      >
      > > Remember, we're talking APRS-IS filters here. They work at the packet
      > > level with just a touch of positional memory. There is no filter I know
      > > of that can currently detect whether a STATION (not packet) was heard
      > > "via RF in the first place". The presense of TCPIP in the path
      > > (d/TCPIP) can determine that in a PACKET, but I don't think that's going
      > > to help you.
      > >
      > > I need to think on this a bit more, but I think you're probably going to
      > > want a +t/mp in there as well to restrict all gating to messages and
      > > position packets. No sense cluttering up the RF with -IS-based station
      > > telemetry and cruft.
      > >
      > > Lynn (D) - KJ4ERJ - Author of APRSISCE for Windows Mobile and Win32
      > >
      > > PS. The -e/* doesn't mean it's not an RF STATION, it means it's not an
      > > RF PACKET.
      > >
      > >> ok, so I want to pass any stations within a certain area filter to RF, but only if they weren't heard via RF in the first place.
      > >>
      > >> a/43.03/-78.82/42.43/-76.48 -d/W2CXM-1/N2FSD*/KC2ANT-1 -e/* +m/20
      > >>
      > >> Within that area block, not digied by those call signs, with no entry server that's within 20 miles of me? (this is supporting a public service event once a year, but this concept will be modified for up to 6 events around the area)
      > >>
      > >>
      > >> AND
      > >> Any Callsign that is not an RF station, within 15Miles of me.
      > >>
      > >> -e/* +m/15
      > >>
      > >> So, the overall filter would be?
      > >>
      > >> a/43.03/-78.82/42.43/-76.48 -d/W2CXM-1/N2FSD*/KC2ANT-1 -e/* +m/20 -e/* +m/15
      > >>
      > >>
      > >> maybe I'm just asking for too much? sense I can't seem to get this filter string to hit on a station that it should be.
      > >>
      > >> Adam
      > >> KC2ANT
      > >>
      > >>
      > >>
      > >>
      > >> --- In aprsisce@yahoogroups.com, "Lynn W Deffenbaugh (Mr)"<kj4erj@> wrote:
      > >>> + is my own addition and given the current implementation you can think
      > >>> of it like this:
      > >>>
      > >>> non-qualified terms match on ANY hit just as APRS-IS filter have always
      > >>> behaved
      > >>>
      > >>> ANY negative (-) hit eliminates that packet
      > >>>
      > >>> ANY positive (+) MISS eliminates that packet
      > >>>
      > >>> So, only non-qualified terms can ADD packets to the feed. Qualified
      > >>> terms can only REMOVE packets from the filter hits. This means that a
      > >>> filter of s//S p/KJ4 +m/50 filter will give you the Satellite symbol
      > >>> stations and KJ4 prefixed stations but will eliminate any of those
      > >>> outside of 50km of ME. With what I had originally proposed, you could
      > >>> not do that unless you were looking for merges of things or only
      > >>> satellites that start with KJ4 and are inside the 50km circle of ME.
      > >>>
      > >>> Lynn (D) - KJ4ERJ - Author of APRSISCE for Windows Mobile and Win32
      > >>>
      > >>> PS. Consider the following:
      > >>>
      > >>> b/KJ4ERJ* -m/50 +m/100
      > >>>
      > >>> Yep, pass my own stations in a 100km donut with a 50km hole in the middle!
      > >>
      > >>
      > >>
      > >> ------------------------------------
      > >>
      > >> Yahoo! Groups Links
      > >>
      > >>
      > >>
      > >>
      > >
      > >
      > > ------------------------------------
      > >
      > > Yahoo! Groups Links
      > >
      > >
      > >
      > >
      >
    • apenadragon
      Here s my vision. 24/7 I want to gate any IS only station to RF so long as it s within 15 miles of me(W2CXM-1), or perhaps an area filter for Tompkins County,
      Message 35 of 35 , Sep 26, 2011
      • 0 Attachment
        Here's my vision.

        24/7 I want to gate any IS only station to RF so long as it's within 15 miles of me(W2CXM-1), or perhaps an area filter for Tompkins County, NY. (roughly)


        For special events I would like to add a filter to cover an area.
        within that area, I need it to feed IS only staitons (smart phones) over RF. I also need to get the extreme north end of that area (which will get gated via an IGate at the north end, or one of about 3 actually) back into local RF for the Net Control station (who doesn't have IS connectivity, Yet, still working on that one) BUT I don't need that to happen, if it is already hitting the local RF. I don't want duplicate, or historical packets hitting the local RF via IS-RF gating if it's already in the local RF anyway. We'll have times when a packet will make it back to the south end, from the north, but not all. The Digi's at both ends don't always hear each other, and sometimes a mobile station will hit the southern RF without help from the northern Digi, but not always.

        (maybe I just need to move to someplace with flat terrain, instead of all these hills and valleys)

        The problem is we have some holes in the area between the southern, and the northern end of this area where I filled in some of that by parking my mobile set up, and gatting anything that my mobile heard to IS. Problem is, Net Control couldn't get any of these stations via RF(including myself), so it didn't really do them any good in the first place.


        Honestly, the easiest solution is to get the first one out of the way, and then continue to poke at the Net Control person to let me take over APRS Net Control and hook my set up to my smart phone for internet connection, and therefor IS connection. Or to get his own, but I don't see the latter happening, And getting a decent portable digi parked someplace for the middle of the course.

        Confused yet?

        Adam
        KC2ANT


        --- In aprsisce@yahoogroups.com, "Lynn W Deffenbaugh (Mr)" <kj4erj@...> wrote:
        >
        > Oh, and is that "heard on RF" heard by YOU, or by ANYONE? If someone 15
        > miles away IGates an RF packet to the -IS and you haven't heard that
        > station, do you want to gate it out to your local RF?
        >
        > Can you describe more generically the -IS to RF IGating service (the
        > whys and whats) that you're after so I can get the scope of the forest
        > instead of the leaves on the tree? I feel like I'm a blind man trying
        > to describe an elephant by feeling his ear (ok, I'm also mixing my
        > metaphores rather horrendously too).
        >
        > Lynn (D) - KJ4ERJ - Author of APRSISCE for Windows Mobile and Win32
        >
        > > Remember, we're talking APRS-IS filters here. They work at the packet
        > > level with just a touch of positional memory. There is no filter I know
        > > of that can currently detect whether a STATION (not packet) was heard
        > > "via RF in the first place". The presense of TCPIP in the path
        > > (d/TCPIP) can determine that in a PACKET, but I don't think that's going
        > > to help you.
        > >
        > > I need to think on this a bit more, but I think you're probably going to
        > > want a +t/mp in there as well to restrict all gating to messages and
        > > position packets. No sense cluttering up the RF with -IS-based station
        > > telemetry and cruft.
        > >
        > > Lynn (D) - KJ4ERJ - Author of APRSISCE for Windows Mobile and Win32
        > >
        > > PS. The -e/* doesn't mean it's not an RF STATION, it means it's not an
        > > RF PACKET.
        > >
        > >> ok, so I want to pass any stations within a certain area filter to RF, but only if they weren't heard via RF in the first place.
        > >>
        > >> a/43.03/-78.82/42.43/-76.48 -d/W2CXM-1/N2FSD*/KC2ANT-1 -e/* +m/20
        > >>
        > >> Within that area block, not digied by those call signs, with no entry server that's within 20 miles of me? (this is supporting a public service event once a year, but this concept will be modified for up to 6 events around the area)
        > >>
        > >>
        > >> AND
        > >> Any Callsign that is not an RF station, within 15Miles of me.
        > >>
        > >> -e/* +m/15
        > >>
        > >> So, the overall filter would be?
        > >>
        > >> a/43.03/-78.82/42.43/-76.48 -d/W2CXM-1/N2FSD*/KC2ANT-1 -e/* +m/20 -e/* +m/15
        > >>
        > >>
        > >> maybe I'm just asking for too much? sense I can't seem to get this filter string to hit on a station that it should be.
        > >>
        > >> Adam
        > >> KC2ANT
        > >>
        > >>
        > >>
        > >>
        > >> --- In aprsisce@yahoogroups.com, "Lynn W Deffenbaugh (Mr)"<kj4erj@> wrote:
        > >>> + is my own addition and given the current implementation you can think
        > >>> of it like this:
        > >>>
        > >>> non-qualified terms match on ANY hit just as APRS-IS filter have always
        > >>> behaved
        > >>>
        > >>> ANY negative (-) hit eliminates that packet
        > >>>
        > >>> ANY positive (+) MISS eliminates that packet
        > >>>
        > >>> So, only non-qualified terms can ADD packets to the feed. Qualified
        > >>> terms can only REMOVE packets from the filter hits. This means that a
        > >>> filter of s//S p/KJ4 +m/50 filter will give you the Satellite symbol
        > >>> stations and KJ4 prefixed stations but will eliminate any of those
        > >>> outside of 50km of ME. With what I had originally proposed, you could
        > >>> not do that unless you were looking for merges of things or only
        > >>> satellites that start with KJ4 and are inside the 50km circle of ME.
        > >>>
        > >>> Lynn (D) - KJ4ERJ - Author of APRSISCE for Windows Mobile and Win32
        > >>>
        > >>> PS. Consider the following:
        > >>>
        > >>> b/KJ4ERJ* -m/50 +m/100
        > >>>
        > >>> Yep, pass my own stations in a 100km donut with a 50km hole in the middle!
        > >>
        > >>
        > >>
        > >> ------------------------------------
        > >>
        > >> Yahoo! Groups Links
        > >>
        > >>
        > >>
        > >>
        > >
        > >
        > > ------------------------------------
        > >
        > > Yahoo! Groups Links
        > >
        > >
        > >
        > >
        >
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