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TNC-2 format and other general comments

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  • Reuben Wells
    Hi Lynn, We have a couple of the Cross Country Wireless USB TNCs in our group and would like to be able to use them directly with APRSISCE. Checking with Chris
    Message 1 of 10 , Jul 30, 2011
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      Hi Lynn,

      We have a couple of the Cross Country Wireless USB TNCs in our group and would like to be able to use them directly with APRSISCE. Checking with Chris at
      Cross Country Wireless, he informed me this is possible by using APRSISCE and APRS Messenger together. Whilst this works, it would simplify things if APRSISCE could talk directly to the TNC using the TNC-2 format messages. Is this on already on the "to do" list?

      On an unrelated note, would it be possible to have the option to display object comments on the display (next to the object) similar to "Screen" -> "Labels" -> "Callsign". This would be useful for events in which we display APRSISCE on a screen.

      I've also noticed that the "@" symbol shows in the scrolling list suggesting a packet has been digipeated, even the port is in "receive only" mode, which resulted in some head scratching given I couldn't hear the packets being retransmitted!

      Finally, when clicking on a station to display the additional information (in in the scrolling list or on the map), could you display the age of the packet in minutes & seconds? It would make checking to see when the last packet came in much easier.

      Kind regards,

      Reuben / M0RXW
    • Reuben Wells
      Hi Lynn, would appreciate your comments on the below if you get a free moment. Thanks, Reuben / M0RXW
      Message 2 of 10 , Aug 3, 2011
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        Hi Lynn, would appreciate your comments on the below if you get a free moment.

        Thanks, Reuben / M0RXW

        On 30 Jul 2011, at 19:57, Reuben Wells <row@...> wrote:

         

        Hi Lynn,

        We have a couple of the Cross Country Wireless USB TNCs in our group and would like to be able to use them directly with APRSISCE. Checking with Chris at
        Cross Country Wireless, he informed me this is possible by using APRSISCE and APRS Messenger together. Whilst this works, it would simplify things if APRSISCE could talk directly to the TNC using the TNC-2 format messages. Is this on already on the "to do" list?

        On an unrelated note, would it be possible to have the option to display object comments on the display (next to the object) similar to "Screen" -> "Labels" -> "Callsign". This would be useful for events in which we display APRSISCE on a screen.

        I've also noticed that the "@" symbol shows in the scrolling list suggesting a packet has been digipeated, even the port is in "receive only" mode, which resulted in some head scratching given I couldn't hear the packets being retransmitted!

        Finally, when clicking on a station to display the additional information (in in the scrolling list or on the map), could you display the age of the packet in minutes & seconds? It would make checking to see when the last packet came in much easier.

        Kind regards,

        Reuben / M0RXW

      • Andre v Schaijk
        With all the talk about TNC-2 format I want to point out that there is no thing like a TNC-2 format. even TAPR derived firmware is not completly the same,
        Message 3 of 10 , Aug 3, 2011
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          With all the talk about TNC-2 format I want to point out that there is
          no thing like a TNC-2 format.
          even TAPR derived firmware is not completly the same, especialy when it
          comes to displaying digipeaters, then there is also w8ded hostmade and
          the german TF that is completly alien to the TAPR derived display.

          another huge problem with using the terminal interface of tnc firmware
          is complete lack of controll over the path being used for beacons, it
          was a regular problem with dos aprs where beacons where being send with
          the message digipath.

          at best using terminal/human interface is a kludge, nice to have but
          very unreliable.

          Andre PE1RDW
        • Lynn W Deffenbaugh (Mr)
          Thank you Andre! I couldn t have said it better myself. Nothing gives the control of a KISS interface. But even with that said, there will be a CONVerse mode
          Message 4 of 10 , Aug 3, 2011
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            Thank you Andre! I couldn't have said it better myself. Nothing gives
            the control of a KISS interface.

            But even with that said, there will be a CONVerse mode support coming in
            some future version of APRSISCE/32. However, I WILL be taking control
            of MYCALL and UNPROTO xxxx VIA yyyy and switching in and out of CONVerse
            mode as necessary. But using such an interface as a digipeater will not
            be supported as there is no way to transmit a used (*) path component.

            Lynn (D) - KJ4ERJ - Author of APRSISCE for Windows Mobile and Win32

            On 8/3/2011 7:08 PM, Andre v Schaijk wrote:
            > With all the talk about TNC-2 format I want to point out that there is
            > no thing like a TNC-2 format.
            > even TAPR derived firmware is not completly the same, especialy when it
            > comes to displaying digipeaters, then there is also w8ded hostmade and
            > the german TF that is completly alien to the TAPR derived display.
            >
            > another huge problem with using the terminal interface of tnc firmware
            > is complete lack of controll over the path being used for beacons, it
            > was a regular problem with dos aprs where beacons where being send with
            > the message digipath.
            >
            > at best using terminal/human interface is a kludge, nice to have but
            > very unreliable.
            >
            > Andre PE1RDW
          • Reuben Wells
            Thanks, I wanted to use this for receive only. The CCW unit provides a built in digipeater, which doesn t have any dependencies on a PC which means there is
            Message 5 of 10 , Aug 6, 2011
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              Thanks, I wanted to use this for receive only.

              The CCW unit provides a built in digipeater, which doesn't have any dependencies on a PC which means there is little to go wrong, but being able to plug a PC into the device to see the received activity would be very helpful. It sounds like 'converse' mode will provide this.

              I'd appreciate your consideration of the two requests in my original post:

              1) Would it be possible to have the option to display object comments on the display (next to the object) similar to "Screen" -> "Labels" -> "Callsign". This would be useful for events in which we display APRSISCE on a screen.

              2) When clicking on a station to display the additional information (in in the scrolling list or on the map), could you display the age of the packet in minutes & seconds? It would make checking to see when the last packet came in much easier.

              Thanks again!

              Reuben


              On 04/08/2011 00:55, Lynn W Deffenbaugh (Mr) wrote:
               

              Thank you Andre! I couldn't have said it better myself. Nothing gives
              the control of a KISS interface.

              But even with that said, there will be a CONVerse mode support coming in
              some future version of APRSISCE/32. However, I WILL be taking control
              of MYCALL and UNPROTO xxxx VIA yyyy and switching in and out of CONVerse
              mode as necessary. But using such an interface as a digipeater will not
              be supported as there is no way to transmit a used (*) path component.

              Lynn (D) - KJ4ERJ - Author of APRSISCE for Windows Mobile and Win32

              On 8/3/2011 7:08 PM, Andre v Schaijk wrote:
              > With all the talk about TNC-2 format I want to point out that there is
              > no thing like a TNC-2 format.
              > even TAPR derived firmware is not completly the same, especialy when it
              > comes to displaying digipeaters, then there is also w8ded hostmade and
              > the german TF that is completly alien to the TAPR derived display.
              >
              > another huge problem with using the terminal interface of tnc firmware
              > is complete lack of controll over the path being used for beacons, it
              > was a regular problem with dos aprs where beacons where being send with
              > the message digipath.
              >
              > at best using terminal/human interface is a kludge, nice to have but
              > very unreliable.
              >
              > Andre PE1RDW


            • Lynn W Deffenbaugh (Mr)
              ... So does an APRSISCE/32 TEXT port work for receiving packets from a CCW unit? From everything I can think of, that should work. ... If it s only for
              Message 6 of 10 , Aug 6, 2011
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                On 8/6/2011 2:27 PM, Reuben Wells wrote:
                Thanks, I wanted to use this for receive only.

                The CCW unit provides a built in digipeater, which doesn't have any dependencies on a PC which means there is little to go wrong, but being able to plug a PC into the device to see the received activity would be very helpful. It sounds like 'converse' mode will provide this.

                So does an APRSISCE/32 TEXT port work for receiving packets from a CCW unit?  From everything I can think of, that should work.


                I'd appreciate your consideration of the two requests in my original post:

                1) Would it be possible to have the option to display object comments on the display (next to the object) similar to "Screen" -> "Labels" -> "Callsign". This would be useful for events in which we display APRSISCE on a screen.

                If it's only for stations that are part of your event, you can simply give  them a Nickname (click on the station and select Nickname or use Screen / Labels  / Nicknames / New Nickname) and make it say whatever you want.  I believe Nicknames can be pretty big.

                I'm resisting the temptation to fulfil your request because to display every station's comment string as a label on the map would inevitably generate some hellash looking maps as some comment strings can be very long.  Using a nickname for a public display of selected stations gives you control over the public image while still concealing the "geekyness" of the callsigns.

                Play with nicknames and see if they'll fit the bill for your event.  I consider this especially important in case a "Here's My Mobile Comment 'cause I wanted to make big packets" station drives through just at the wrong instance.


                2) When clicking on a station to display the additional information (in in the scrolling list or on the map), could you display the age of the packet in minutes & seconds? It would make checking to see when the last packet came in much easier.

                On the ToDo list already.  I'll see about elevating the priority to include it in a sooner rather than later release.  I've wanted this for a LONG time!  I want to know how old the information is, not when it happened because then I have to glance to the lower right to know what time it actualy is now and sometimes I just don't want to know that (like 03:00n or so).


                Thanks again!

                You're welcome as always.

                Lynn (D) - KJ4ERJ - Author of APRSISCE for Windows Mobile and Win32



                Reuben


                On 04/08/2011 00:55, Lynn W Deffenbaugh (Mr) wrote:
                 

                Thank you Andre! I couldn't have said it better myself. Nothing gives
                the control of a KISS interface.

                But even with that said, there will be a CONVerse mode support coming in
                some future version of APRSISCE/32. However, I WILL be taking control
                of MYCALL and UNPROTO xxxx VIA yyyy and switching in and out of CONVerse
                mode as necessary. But using such an interface as a digipeater will not
                be supported as there is no way to transmit a used (*) path component.

                Lynn (D) - KJ4ERJ - Author of APRSISCE for Windows Mobile and Win32

                On 8/3/2011 7:08 PM, Andre v Schaijk wrote:
                > With all the talk about TNC-2 format I want to point out that there is
                > no thing like a TNC-2 format.
                > even TAPR derived firmware is not completly the same, especialy when it
                > comes to displaying digipeaters, then there is also w8ded hostmade and
                > the german TF that is completly alien to the TAPR derived display.
                >
                > another huge problem with using the terminal interface of tnc firmware
                > is complete lack of controll over the path being used for beacons, it
                > was a regular problem with dos aprs where beacons where being send with
                > the message digipath.
                >
                > at best using terminal/human interface is a kludge, nice to have but
                > very unreliable.
                >
                > Andre PE1RDW



              • Reuben Wells
                Thanks Lynn, Using nicknames is a good idea, but the names for the objects don t update on the screen unless I quit and restart the program. The objects I have
                Message 7 of 10 , Aug 6, 2011
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                  Thanks Lynn,

                  Using nicknames is a good idea, but the names for the objects don't update on the screen unless I quit and restart the program. The objects I have created are only local (the IS and RF boxes are unchecked). I see the objects in the packet list but the name doesn't update when I set the nickname or when the internal packet is processed. Its not a big issue as I will set up all the objects in advance. Setting nicknames for other stations (received via IS) works as expected. From a user interface perspective, if it was possible to assign a nickname when creating an object (in addition to the callsign and comment) it would save quite a few clicks.

                  Regarding the CCW unit, I will try a TEXT port and post back if it doesn't work - thank you!

                  Reuben / M0RXW

                  On 06/08/2011 19:47, Lynn W Deffenbaugh (Mr) wrote:
                   


                  I'd appreciate your consideration of the two requests in my original post:

                  1) Would it be possible to have the option to display object comments on the display (next to the object) similar to "Screen" -> "Labels" -> "Callsign". This would be useful for events in which we display APRSISCE on a screen.

                  If it's only for stations that are part of your event, you can simply give  them a Nickname (click on the station and select Nickname or use Screen / Labels  / Nicknames / New Nickname) and make it say whatever you want.  I believe Nicknames can be pretty big.

                  I'm resisting the temptation to fulfil your request because to display every station's comment string as a label on the map would inevitably generate some hellash looking maps as some comment strings can be very long.  Using a nickname for a public display of selected stations gives you control over the public image while still concealing the "geekyness" of the callsigns.

                  Play with nicknames and see if they'll fit the bill for your event.  I consider this especially important in case a "Here's My Mobile Comment 'cause I wanted to make big packets" station drives through just at the wrong instance.


                • Lynn W Deffenbaugh (Mr)
                  ... I m hot on the trail of why an object nickname doesn t show up until a restart and will have that fixed in the next release. But I m curious, can you give
                  Message 8 of 10 , Aug 7, 2011
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                    On 8/6/2011 4:37 PM, Reuben Wells wrote:
                    Using nicknames is a good idea, but the names for the objects don't update on the screen unless I quit and restart the program. The objects I have created are only local (the IS and RF boxes are unchecked). I see the objects in the packet list but the name doesn't update when I set the nickname or when the internal packet is processed. Its not a big issue as I will set up all the objects in advance. Setting nicknames for other stations (received via IS) works as expected. From a user interface perspective, if it was possible to assign a nickname when creating an object (in addition to the callsign and comment) it would save quite a few clicks.

                    I'm hot on the trail of why an object nickname doesn't show up until a restart and will have that fixed in the next release. 

                    But I'm curious, can you give me an example of a nickname that is longer than 9 characters that doesn't clutter the map and can't be said in 9 characters or less?  Especially for local (neither VIA checked) objects, you can call them anything you want and the ID will show on the map without a nickname.

                    Lynn (D) - KJ4ERJ - Author of APRSISCE for Windows Mobile and Win32

                  • Randy Love
                    ... Tooltips to display for this information ( comment and last heard ) for a few seconds possibly?? WF5X
                    Message 9 of 10 , Aug 9, 2011
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                      On Sat, Aug 6, 2011 at 2:47 PM, Lynn W Deffenbaugh (Mr) <kj4erj@...> wrote:
                       

                      On 8/6/2011 2:27 PM, Reuben Wells wrote:I'd appreciate your consideration of the two requests in my original post:

                      1) Would it be possible to have the option to display object comments on the display (next to the object) similar to "Screen" -> "Labels" -> "Callsign". This would be useful for events in which we display APRSISCE on a screen.

                      If it's only for stations that are part of your event, you can simply give  them a Nickname (click on the station and select Nickname or use Screen / Labels  / Nicknames / New Nickname) and make it say whatever you want.  I believe Nicknames can be pretty big.


                      2) When clicking on a station to display the additional information (in in the scrolling list or on the map), could you display the age of the packet in minutes & seconds? It would make checking to see when the last packet came in much easier.

                      On the ToDo list already.  I'll see about elevating the priority to include it in a sooner rather than later release.  I've wanted this for a LONG time!  I want to know how old the information is, not when it happened because then I have to glance to the lower right to know what time it actualy is now and sometimes I just don't want to know that (like 03:00n or so).

                      Tooltips to display for this information ( comment and last heard ) for a few seconds possibly??

                      WF5X
                    • Reuben Wells
                      Thanks Lynn, you make a good point, I had given them abbreviated names in the past, but if they are local only then it will probably be simpler to just name
                      Message 10 of 10 , Aug 14, 2011
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                        Thanks Lynn, you make a good point, I had given them abbreviated names in the past, but if they are local only then it will probably be simpler to just name them with friendly names. However, I would like to be able to send these over RF, so that control could setup the objects and the other stations see them. Going back to my original request if there was a way to display the comment on the map (even if it was truncated at 10 or 15 characters to minimise the clutter) or only display the comment for objects that would negate the need for using nicknames. 

                        I was just looking at Steve's objects via QRU, so rather than something like "EPRINROYA", showing "Princess Royal 01689 863000" would be much more readable. I appreciate this might not work as well on a mobile device, but then users don't have to enable the option. 

                        Reuben / M0RXW

                        On 7 Aug 2011, at 19:14, Lynn W Deffenbaugh (Mr) wrote:

                         

                        On 8/6/2011 4:37 PM, Reuben Wells wrote:

                        Using nicknames is a good idea, but the names for the objects don't update on the screen unless I quit and restart the program. The objects I have created are only local (the IS and RF boxes are unchecked). I see the objects in the packet list but the name doesn't update when I set the nickname or when the internal packet is processed. Its not a big issue as I will set up all the objects in advance. Setting nicknames for other stations (received via IS) works as expected. From a user interface perspective, if it was possible to assign a nickname when creating an object (in addition to the callsign and comment) it would save quite a few clicks.

                        I'm hot on the trail of why an object nickname doesn't show up until a restart and will have that fixed in the next release. 

                        But I'm curious, can you give me an example of a nickname that is longer than 9 characters that doesn't clutter the map and can't be said in 9 characters or less?  Especially for local (neither VIA checked) objects, you can call them anything you want and the ID will show on the map without a nickname.

                        Lynn (D) - KJ4ERJ - Author of APRSISCE for Windows Mobile and Win32


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