Loading ...
Sorry, an error occurred while loading the content.

Re: [aprsisce] Kenwood TH-D72E (GPS pass-through)

Expand Messages
  • Greg D
    More than once? Heck, I ve always thought it was an expected part of the job! To rephrase Jame s comment, a good software guy can make the hardware do things
    Message 1 of 26 , Jul 3, 2011
    • 0 Attachment
      More than once?  Heck, I've always thought it was an expected part of the job!  To rephrase Jame's comment, a good software guy can make the hardware do things it was intended to do, but failed.

      Greg  KO6TH


      Bob Harris wrote:
       

      More than once I had to do stuff in the firmware to cover mistakes in the hardware. Hi Hi

      On 7/3/2011 8:19 PM, James Ewen wrote:

      You guys are like a wet blanket on a fire! A good software guy can
      make the hardware do things it never was intended for!

      --

      Bob Harris (K9UDX)
      Bath, NH

  • James Ewen
    Just ask for a password, and supply a callsign to associate it against, and a way to send it to you. I can send it to you as soon as I get home from supper.
    Message 2 of 26 , Jul 3, 2011
    • 0 Attachment
      Just ask for a password, and supply a callsign to associate it
      against, and a way to send it to you.

      I can send it to you as soon as I get home from supper. Lynn will
      probably beat me to it though.



      On 7/3/11, wayne snell <fishing948@...> wrote:
      > Hi this is Wayne KC9RMK I dont mean to sound ignorant but how do you go
      > about getting your password for APRSISCEWIN32 I'm new to the group HELP?
      >
      > --- On Sun, 7/3/11, Lynn W Deffenbaugh (Mr) <kj4erj@...> wrote:
      >
      >
      > From: Lynn W Deffenbaugh (Mr) <kj4erj@...>
      > Subject: Re: [aprsisce] Kenwood TH-D72E (GPS pass-through)
      > To: aprsisce@yahoogroups.com
      > Date: Sunday, July 3, 2011, 6:09 PM
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      > On 7/3/2011 4:44 PM, Nigel Gunn G8IFF/W8IFF wrote:
      >> I'm assuming that, as the radio's internal software can see and use both,
      >> it could pipe the GPS sentences out the USB port.
      >
      > Given what I've seen in some hardware/firmware designs, making
      > assumptions about what firmware can do along these lines can be quite
      > .... interesting (see Notes at the end of
      > http://uncyclopedia.wikia.com/wiki/Assume).
      >
      > Things that seem easy to the non-embedded programming world can
      > sometimes be non-trivial in an embedded system like a radio. Simply
      > arbitrating and interleaving TNC and GPS data to the USB port can be
      > more difficult than it would seem.
      >
      > Lynn (D) - KJ4ERJ - Author of APRSISCE for Windows Mobile and Win32
      >
      >>
      >> On 03-Jul-11 19:38, Kurt Savegnago wrote:
      >>
      >>> You make an excellent point there Nigel. Ff there isn't already some sort
      >>> of internal connection in the 72 to pass through the iGPS information
      >>> while in the TNC mode or APRS mode, it isn't going to happen. There has
      >>> to be the potential for a software change (ie. firmware) to "turn on"
      >>> that pass-through. If it doesn't already exist, it won't happen with this
      >>> current iteration of the 72.
      >>>
      >>
      >> ------------------------------------
      >>
      >> Yahoo! Groups Links
      >>
      >>
      >>
      >>
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >


      --
      James
      VE6SRV
    • Rud Merriam
      But Lynn, Its only software . LOL - 73 - *Rud Merriam K5RUD Emergency Coordinator /Montgomery County ARES® / * /Mystic Lake Software
      Message 3 of 26 , Jul 3, 2011
      • 0 Attachment
        But Lynn, "Its only software". LOL

        - 73 -
        Rud Merriam K5RUD
        Emergency Coordinator
        Montgomery County ARES®
        Mystic Lake Software

        On 7/3/2011 6:09 PM, Lynn W Deffenbaugh (Mr) wrote:
         

        On 7/3/2011 4:44 PM, Nigel Gunn G8IFF/W8IFF wrote:
        > I'm assuming that, as the radio's internal software can see and use both, it could pipe the GPS sentences out the USB port.

        Given what I've seen in some hardware/firmware designs, making
        assumptions about what firmware can do along these lines can be quite
        .... interesting (see Notes at the end of
        http://uncyclopedia.wikia.com/wiki/Assume).

        Things that seem easy to the non-embedded programming world can
        sometimes be non-trivial in an embedded system like a radio. Simply
        arbitrating and interleaving TNC and GPS data to the USB port can be
        more difficult than it would seem.

        Lynn (D) - KJ4ERJ - Author of APRSISCE for Windows Mobile and Win32

        >
        > On 03-Jul-11 19:38, Kurt Savegnago wrote:
        >
        >> You make an excellent point there Nigel. Ff there isn't already some sort of internal connection in the 72 to pass through the iGPS information while in the TNC mode or APRS mode, it isn't going to happen. There has to be the potential for a software change (ie. firmware) to "turn on" that pass-through. If it doesn't already exist, it won't happen with this current iteration of the 72.
        >>
        >
        > ------------------------------------
        >
        > Yahoo! Groups Links
        >
        >
        >
        >

      • Rud Merriam
        Or spend hours figuring out what was wrong with the hardware and then spend more time writing a simple program that would convincingly demonstrate to the
        Message 4 of 26 , Jul 3, 2011
        • 0 Attachment
          Or spend hours figuring out what was wrong with the hardware and then spend more time writing a simple program that would convincingly demonstrate to the hardware guy that the hardware actually was wrong, e.g like the signal is supposed to be inverted here but isn't.

          - 73 -
          Rud Merriam K5RUD
          Emergency Coordinator
          Montgomery County ARES®
          Mystic Lake Software

          On 7/3/2011 7:29 PM, Bob Harris wrote:
           

          More than once I had to do stuff in the firmware to cover mistakes in the hardware. Hi Hi

          On 7/3/2011 8:19 PM, James Ewen wrote:

          You guys are like a wet blanket on a fire! A good software guy can
          make the hardware do things it never was intended for!

          --

          Bob Harris (K9UDX)
          Bath, NH

        • Randy Thomson
          Or, if you already have one for APRSpoint network connection, it s the same one. From: aprsisce@yahoogroups.com [mailto:aprsisce@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of
          Message 5 of 26 , Jul 3, 2011
          • 0 Attachment

            Or, if you already have one for APRSpoint network connection, it’s the same one.

             

            From: aprsisce@yahoogroups.com [mailto:aprsisce@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of James Ewen
            Sent: Sunday, July 03, 2011 8:22 PM
            To: aprsisce@yahoogroups.com
            Subject: Re: [aprsisce] Kenwood TH-D72E (GPS pass-through)

             

             

            Just ask for a password, and supply a callsign to associate it
            against, and a way to send it to you.

            I can send it to you as soon as I get home from supper. Lynn will
            probably beat me to it though.

            On 7/3/11, wayne snell <fishing948@...> wrote:
            > Hi this is Wayne KC9RMK I dont mean to sound ignorant but how do you go
            > about getting your password for APRSISCEWIN32 I'm new to the group HELP?
            >
            > --- On Sun, 7/3/11, Lynn W Deffenbaugh (Mr) <kj4erj@...> wrote:
            >
            >
            > From: Lynn W Deffenbaugh (Mr) <kj4erj@...>
            > Subject: Re: [aprsisce] Kenwood TH-D72E (GPS pass-through)
            > To: aprsisce@yahoogroups.com
            > Date: Sunday, July 3, 2011, 6:09 PM
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >
            > On 7/3/2011 4:44 PM, Nigel Gunn G8IFF/W8IFF wrote:
            >> I'm assuming that, as the radio's internal software can see and use both,
            >> it could pipe the GPS sentences out the USB port.
            >
            > Given what I've seen in some hardware/firmware designs, making
            > assumptions about what firmware can do along these lines can be quite
            > .... interesting (see Notes at the end of
            > http://uncyclopedia.wikia.com/wiki/Assume).
            >
            > Things that seem easy to the non-embedded programming world can
            > sometimes be non-trivial in an embedded system like a radio. Simply
            > arbitrating and interleaving TNC and GPS data to the USB port can be
            > more difficult than it would seem.
            >
            > Lynn (D) - KJ4ERJ - Author of APRSISCE for Windows Mobile and Win32
            >
            >>
            >> On 03-Jul-11 19:38, Kurt Savegnago wrote:
            >>
            >>> You make an excellent point there Nigel. Ff there isn't already some sort
            >>> of internal connection in the 72 to pass through the iGPS information
            >>> while in the TNC mode or APRS mode, it isn't going to happen. There has
            >>> to be the potential for a software change (ie. firmware) to "turn on"
            >>> that pass-through. If it doesn't already exist, it won't happen with this
            >>> current iteration of the 72.
            >>>
            >>
            >> ------------------------------------
            >>
            >> Yahoo! Groups Links
            >>
            >>
            >>
            >>
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >

            --
            James
            VE6SRV

          • Kurt Savegnago
            Say that to the VX-8R people who were fantasizing all the neat B/T things they were going to see with the -8R all with a firmware update.  Things like
            Message 6 of 26 , Jul 4, 2011
            • 0 Attachment
              Say that to the VX-8R people who were fantasizing all the "neat" B/T things they were going to see with the -8R all with a "firmware" update.  Things like taking the GPS strings
              off the GPS through a B/T pairing or pair with an external GPS that is B/T capable. Sheesh.

              Turns out that the B/T for that unit was for pairing with a headset only and the Yaesu H/T products will never be able to use any GPS but what Yaesu provides. (Unless they redesign the hardware)

              In the end, the -8R got a firmware update where one had to send the unit  back for a board
              exchange to DR specs.  Sort of like what KW did with the D7A to D7A(g)

              Folks, if it ain't there in the hardware in the first place, it ain't going to be "turned on" by the software. There has to be the potential for the electrons to flow and do the job intended.
              Sometimes minor changes can be made by a firmware change due to the complexities of
              the hardware but most of these are subtle.  Look at the notes with each D72a firmware updates.  They fix relatively minor things. Those "things" were in the hardware design to
              be turned off or on in the first place.

              Many devices are over designed with possibilities and sometimes simple code changes can change the character of the device.  Major changes (like converting an audio B/T link to a full featured data link in the VX-8R) isn't going to happen without a major hardware change.  It's just that simple.

              Firmware coding is not magic.  The trait or feature you want has to be there to be turned on.  If it's not there in the hardware, it's no deal unless the hardware is redesigned.

                                                                     Kurt KC9LDH

              --- On Sun, 7/3/11, Greg D <ko6th.greg@...> wrote:

              From: Greg D <ko6th.greg@...>
              Subject: Re: [aprsisce] Kenwood TH-D72E (GPS pass-through)
              To: aprsisce@yahoogroups.com
              Date: Sunday, July 3, 2011, 8:00 PM

               

              More than once?  Heck, I've always thought it was an expected part of the job!  To rephrase Jame's comment, a good software guy can make the hardware do things it was intended to do, but failed.

              Greg  KO6TH


              Bob Harris wrote:

               

              More than once I had to do stuff in the firmware to cover mistakes in the hardware. Hi Hi

              On 7/3/2011 8:19 PM, James Ewen wrote:

              You guys are like a wet blanket on a fire! A good software guy can
              make the hardware do things it never was intended for!

              --

              Bob Harris (K9UDX)
              Bath, NH

            • Greg D
              Yes, indeed. In addition, consider that the manufacturer s software team probably has lots of things to do, and while it s amazing what a software team CAN do,
              Message 7 of 26 , Jul 4, 2011
              • 0 Attachment
                Yes, indeed.

                In addition, consider that the manufacturer's software team probably has lots of things to do, and while it's amazing what a software team CAN do, what they are ALLOWED to do by time, risk, and profit potential can be substantially less.  Embedded systems, considerably more so than other forms of software development, can be frightfully difficult to work on, and even more difficult to test.  And there's always the risk (cost) of a warranty call when someone bricks their product because they had the one magic setting in their configuration that you hadn't considered.  And don't even think about changing anything that might affect a government approval (e.g. anything affecting RF), since those are costly and time consuming to obtain.

                So, be sure you will be happy with the product as it ships from the factory.  Any upgrades may be a pleasant surprise, but should not be counted on.

                Greg  KO6TH

                p.s. all the more reason for someone to open-source the non-RF portion of their product.  That would be a game changer.


                Kurt Savegnago wrote:
                 

                Say that to the VX-8R people who were fantasizing all the "neat" B/T things they were going to see with the -8R all with a "firmware" update.  Things like taking the GPS strings
                off the GPS through a B/T pairing or pair with an external GPS that is B/T capable. Sheesh.

                Turns out that the B/T for that unit was for pairing with a headset only and the Yaesu H/T products will never be able to use any GPS but what Yaesu provides. (Unless they redesign the hardware)

                In the end, the -8R got a firmware update where one had to send the unit  back for a board
                exchange to DR specs.  Sort of like what KW did with the D7A to D7A(g)

                Folks, if it ain't there in the hardware in the first place, it ain't going to be "turned on" by the software. There has to be the potential for the electrons to flow and do the job intended.
                Sometimes minor changes can be made by a firmware change due to the complexities of
                the hardware but most of these are subtle.  Look at the notes with each D72a firmware updates.  They fix relatively minor things. Those "things" were in the hardware design to
                be turned off or on in the first place.

                Many devices are over designed with possibilities and sometimes simple code changes can change the character of the device.  Major changes (like converting an audio B/T link to a full featured data link in the VX-8R) isn't going to happen without a major hardware change.  It's just that simple.

                Firmware coding is not magic.  The trait or feature you want has to be there to be turned on.  If it's not there in the hardware, it's no deal unless the hardware is redesigned.

                                                                       Kurt KC9LDH

                --- On Sun, 7/3/11, Greg D <ko6th.greg@...> wrote:

                From: Greg D <ko6th.greg@...>
                Subject: Re: [aprsisce] Kenwood TH-D72E (GPS pass-through)
                To: aprsisce@yahoogroups.com
                Date: Sunday, July 3, 2011, 8:00 PM

                 

                More than once?  Heck, I've always thought it was an expected part of the job!  To rephrase Jame's comment, a good software guy can make the hardware do things it was intended to do, but failed.

                Greg  KO6TH


                Bob Harris wrote:

                 

                More than once I had to do stuff in the firmware to cover mistakes in the hardware. Hi Hi

                On 7/3/2011 8:19 PM, James Ewen wrote:

                You guys are like a wet blanket on a fire! A good software guy can
                make the hardware do things it never was intended for!

                --

                Bob Harris (K9UDX)
                Bath, NH

              • JF Lorne
                Hello, all is working as it must work, and APRSIS is a very nice soft, even is i cannot load a personnal map. Here is Africa, we still need scanned maps But i
                Message 8 of 26 , Jul 5, 2011
                • 0 Attachment
                  Hello,
                   
                  all is working as it must work, and APRSIS is a very nice soft, even is i cannot load a personnal map. Here is Africa, we still need scanned maps
                   
                  But i cannot imagine (understand) why they don't think to implement this function: both APRS and GPS. For me it is so necessary!
                   
                  Tks for all ansewers. Best 73.
                  JF Lorne
                  http://www.le-calao.com
                  ---------------------------------
                  39, rue de la grande vallée
                  91150 Puiselet le marais France
                  ---------------------------------
                  Tél.: 33 (0) 1 64 95 81 30
                  Tél.: 33 (0) 1 46 55 11 67
                  Port.: 33 (0)6 50 35 84 12
                  ----- Original Message -----
                  From: Greg D
                  Sent: Monday, July 04, 2011 5:06 PM
                  Subject: Re: [aprsisce] Kenwood TH-D72E (GPS pass-through)

                   

                  Yes, indeed.

                  In addition, consider that the manufacturer's software team probably has lots of things to do, and while it's amazing what a software team CAN do, what they are ALLOWED to do by time, risk, and profit potential can be substantially less.  Embedded systems, considerably more so than other forms of software development, can be frightfully difficult to work on, and even more difficult to test.  And there's always the risk (cost) of a warranty call when someone bricks their product because they had the one magic setting in their configuration that you hadn't considered.  And don't even think about changing anything that might affect a government approval (e.g. anything affecting RF), since those are costly and time consuming to obtain.

                  So, be sure you will be happy with the product as it ships from the factory.  Any upgrades may be a pleasant surprise, but should not be counted on.

                  Greg  KO6TH

                  p.s. all the more reason for someone to open-source the non-RF portion of their product.  That would be a game changer.


                  Kurt Savegnago wrote:  

                  Say that to the VX-8R people who were fantasizing all the "neat" B/T things they were going to see with the -8R all with a "firmware" update.  Things like taking the GPS strings
                  off the GPS through a B/T pairing or pair with an external GPS that is B/T capable. Sheesh.

                  Turns out that the B/T for that unit was for pairing with a headset only and the Yaesu H/T products will never be able to use any GPS but what Yaesu provides. (Unless they redesign the hardware)

                  In the end, the -8R got a firmware update where one had to send the unit  back for a board
                  exchange to DR specs.  Sort of like what KW did with the D7A to D7A(g)

                  Folks, if it ain't there in the hardware in the first place, it ain't going to be "turned on" by the software. There has to be the potential for the electrons to flow and do the job intended.
                  Sometimes minor changes can be made by a firmware change due to the complexities of
                  the hardware but most of these are subtle.  Look at the notes with each D72a firmware updates.  They fix relatively minor things. Those "things" were in the hardware design to
                  be turned off or on in the first place.

                  Many devices are over designed with possibilities and sometimes simple code changes can change the character of the device.  Major changes (like converting an audio B/T link to a full featured data link in the VX-8R) isn't going to happen without a major hardware change.  It's just that simple.

                  Firmware coding is not magic.  The trait or feature you want has to be there to be turned on.  If it's not there in the hardware, it's no deal unless the hardware is redesigned.

                                                                         Kurt KC9LDH

                  --- On Sun, 7/3/11, Greg D <ko6th.greg@...> wrote:

                  From: Greg D <ko6th.greg@...>
                  Subject: Re: [aprsisce] Kenwood TH-D72E (GPS pass-through)
                  To: aprsisce@yahoogroups.com
                  Date: Sunday, July 3, 2011, 8:00 PM

                   

                  More than once?  Heck, I've always thought it was an expected part of the job!  To rephrase Jame's comment, a good software guy can make the hardware do things it was intended to do, but failed.

                  Greg  KO6TH


                  Bob Harris wrote:

                   

                  More than once I had to do stuff in the firmware to cover mistakes in the hardware. Hi Hi

                  On 7/3/2011 8:19 PM, James Ewen wrote:

                  You guys are like a wet blanket on a fire! A good software guy can
                  make the hardware do things it never was intended for!

                  --

                  Bob Harris (K9UDX)
                  Bath, NH

                • James Ewen
                  ... No you don t... http://www.openstreetmap.org/?lat=14.48679&lon=-17.07513&zoom=15&layers=M There are streets in La Somone. You can add more detail by
                  Message 9 of 26 , Jul 5, 2011
                  • 0 Attachment
                    On Tue, Jul 5, 2011 at 6:18 AM, JF Lorne <jf.lorne@...> wrote:

                    > all is working as it must work, and APRSIS is a very nice soft,
                    > even is i cannot load a personnal map. Here is Africa, we still
                    > need scanned maps

                    No you don't...
                    http://www.openstreetmap.org/?lat=14.48679&lon=-17.07513&zoom=15&layers=M

                    There are streets in La Somone. You can add more detail by joining OSM
                    and adding the detail that you want.

                    > But i cannot imagine (understand) why they don't think to
                    > implement this function: both APRS and GPS. For me it is so necessary!

                    Lynn has scanned maps on the "to do" list, but they aren't implemented
                    yet. In the mean time, grab your GPS and wander the streets, gather
                    tracks, upload them to OSM, and make your own maps.

                    --
                    James
                    VE6SRV
                  • Fred Hillhouse
                    Someone has to be the watchdog? ;) _____ From: aprsisce@yahoogroups.com [mailto:aprsisce@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Charles Blackburn Sent: Sunday, July 03,
                    Message 10 of 26 , Jul 5, 2011
                    • 0 Attachment
                      Someone has to be the watchdog?
                       
                      ;)


                      From: aprsisce@yahoogroups.com [mailto:aprsisce@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Charles Blackburn
                      Sent: Sunday, July 03, 2011 20:27
                      To: aprsisce@yahoogroups.com
                      Subject: RE: [aprsisce] Kenwood TH-D72E (GPS pass-through)

                       

                      Sorry.. us embedded programmers must tick together otherwise we'll need to
                      switch banks :)

                      Charlie

                      -----Original Message-----
                      From: aprsisce@yahoogroups.com [mailto:aprsisce@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf
                      Of James Ewen
                      Sent: Sunday, July 03, 2011 8:20 PM
                      To: aprsisce@yahoogroups.com
                      Subject: Re: [aprsisce] Kenwood TH-D72E (GPS pass-through)

                      You guys are like a wet blanket on a fire! A good software guy can
                      make the hardware do things it never was intended for!

                    • Fred Hillhouse
                      Typing? ;) _____ From: aprsisce@yahoogroups.com [mailto:aprsisce@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Rud Merriam Sent: Sunday, July 03, 2011 21:25 To:
                      Message 11 of 26 , Jul 5, 2011
                      • 0 Attachment
                        Typing?
                         
                        ;)


                        From: aprsisce@yahoogroups.com [mailto:aprsisce@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Rud Merriam
                        Sent: Sunday, July 03, 2011 21:25
                        To: aprsisce@yahoogroups.com
                        Subject: Re: [aprsisce] Kenwood TH-D72E (GPS pass-through)

                         

                        But Lynn, "Its only software". LOL


                        - 73 -
                        Rud Merriam K5RUD
                        Emergency Coordinator
                        Montgomery County ARES®
                        Mystic Lake Software

                        On 7/3/2011 6:09 PM, Lynn W Deffenbaugh (Mr) wrote:
                         

                        On 7/3/2011 4:44 PM, Nigel Gunn G8IFF/W8IFF wrote:
                        > I'm assuming that, as the radio's internal software can see and use both, it could pipe the GPS sentences out the USB port.

                        Given what I've seen in some hardware/firmware designs, making
                        assumptions about what firmware can do along these lines can be quite
                        .... interesting (see Notes at the end of
                        http://uncyclopedia.wikia.com/wiki/Assume).

                        Things that seem easy to the non-embedded programming world can
                        sometimes be non-trivial in an embedded system like a radio. Simply
                        arbitrating and interleaving TNC and GPS data to the USB port can be
                        more difficult than it would seem.

                        Lynn (D) - KJ4ERJ - Author of APRSISCE for Windows Mobile and Win32

                        >
                        > On 03-Jul-11 19:38, Kurt Savegnago wrote:
                        >
                        >> You make an excellent point there Nigel. Ff there isn't already some sort of internal connection in the 72 to pass through the iGPS information while in the TNC mode or APRS mode, it isn't going to happen. There has to be the potential for a software change (ie. firmware) to "turn on" that pass-through. If it doesn't already exist, it won't happen with this current iteration of the 72.
                        >>
                        >
                        > ------------------------------------
                        >
                        > Yahoo! Groups Links
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        >

                      • Your message has been successfully submitted and would be delivered to recipients shortly.