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Re: [aprsisce] Kenwood TH-D72E

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  • Kurt Savegnago
       Can t run the internal GPS with the 72 while attached to the computer and pass  through the position data.. You simply can t do it (unless someone has
    Message 1 of 26 , Jul 3, 2011
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         Can't run the internal GPS with the 72 while attached to the computer and pass  through the position data..
      You simply can't do it (unless someone has figured it out in the last 6 months and I missed it. :-)  ).  With the D7A(g) there is a pass through command that will
      allow the GPS attached to the D7 to pass through to a program like Xastir but it looks
      at those coordinates (which would be the yours base station of course) as another station.
      Xastir didn't recognize is as being one's position to make distance/bearing measurements from.  Soooooo....... that option for the D7 really isn't too helpful and like I said the 72 won't pass through the internal GPS information to a computer tracking program.
        The internal GPS is for totally independent operation although I believe the
      APRS portion of the rig can be shut down and the GPS can independently output the
      position data.  I think that it's possible but I haven't tried it.  Heck, if I need that data for an external tracking computer program I use a cheap USB GPS like described next.
        If you want to have GPS position of your base station with APRSIS-32, you have to  get a USB GPS receiver for about $35.00 and plug it into your computer/laptop.  You then configure a port in APRSIS-32 and you will be in business.  Of course, you can just input your lat/long manually and if you're not going to be moving, why bother with a GPS for a fixed position? :-)
        I've been using the D710 configure file with APRSIS-32 but maybe they have one for the D72 expressly written for it.  The D710 file works fine plus I run the whole shebang under WINE in my Slackware Linux box.

                                                                        Kurt KC9LDH
      --- On Sun, 7/3/11, JF Lorne <jf.lorne@...> wrote:

    • JF Lorne
      OK Many thanks for quick reply. Now i ll try to transmit from APRSIS 32. No easy and the TH D72 is also not seen under UiView. May be some trouble with the
      Message 2 of 26 , Jul 3, 2011
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        OK Many thanks for quick reply.
         
        Now i'll try to transmit from APRSIS 32.
        No easy and the TH D72 is also not seen under UiView. May be some trouble with the virtual com port under Vista.
        Last time i tried, i was able to see the incoming station but not possible to transmit.
        So long and best 73
        JF Lorne
        http://www.le-calao.com
        ---------------------------------
        39, rue de la grande vallée
        91150 Puiselet le marais France
        ---------------------------------
      • Nigel Gunn G8IFF/W8IFF
        On the 72, the USB port either talks to the GPS OR the TNC. It can t do both. Spoke to one of the Kenwood reps at Hamvention. He had numerous people ask the
        Message 3 of 26 , Jul 3, 2011
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          On the '72, the USB port either talks to the GPS OR the TNC. It can't do both.
          Spoke to one of the Kenwood reps at Hamvention. He had numerous people ask the same question and want both TNC packets
          and GPS sentences so was goint to ask the factory designers if it was possible with a firmware upgrade.
          I know not the outcome.


          On 03-Jul-11 14:16, Kurt Savegnago wrote:
          >
          >
          > Can't run the internal GPS with the 72 while attached to the computer and pass through the position data..
          > You simply can't do it (unless someone has figured it out in the last 6 months and I missed it. :-) ). With the D7A(g)
        • Kurt Savegnago
          ... Yeah, It was Kai Gunter Brandt who posted the setup file that in Xastir, passed the D7A(g) s attached GPS info to the Xastir program. The Xastir program
          Message 4 of 26 , Jul 3, 2011
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            --- On Sun, 7/3/11, Nigel Gunn G8IFF/W8IFF <nigel@...> wrote:

            > From: Nigel Gunn G8IFF/W8IFF <nigel@...>
            > Subject: Re: [aprsisce] Kenwood TH-D72E
            > To: aprsisce@yahoogroups.com
            > Cc: "Kurt Savegnago" <ksaves2@...>
            > Date: Sunday, July 3, 2011, 10:35 AM

            > On the '72, the USB port either talks to the
            > GPS OR the TNC. It can't do both.
            >
            > Spoke to one of the Kenwood reps at Hamvention. He had
            > numerous people ask the same question and want both TNC
            > packets
            >
            > and GPS sentences so was goint to ask the factory designers
            > if it was possible with a firmware upgrade.
            >
            > I know not the outcome.

            Yeah,

            It was Kai Gunter Brandt who posted the setup file that in Xastir, passed the D7A(g)'s attached GPS info to the Xastir program. The Xastir program couldn't recognize this as one's position and just posted it as "another" station. Funny thing is it seemed to pick a random icon for that data.:-) Really didn't help things except as a novelty.:-)

            You make an excellent point there Nigel. Ff there isn't already some sort of internal connection in the 72 to pass through the iGPS information while in the TNC mode or APRS mode, it isn't going to happen. There has to be the potential for a software change (ie. firmware) to "turn on" that pass-through. If it doesn't already exist, it won't happen with this current iteration of the 72.

            Frankly, this came up I think pretty soon after the 72's release. If it would have been an easy fix to make through a firmware change, I think KW would have done it by now. But then again, the external tracking application has to recognize that data as the position of the unit and not just simply another Waypoint like was shown with the pass through for the D7A(g). Lord knows I tried to get Xastir to take that passed-through GPS info from the D7's attached Garmin 60Cs and use it for my "galderned" position but I couldn't get it to do it! In one laptop it gave me a sailboat icon and another system gave me a helicopter for the pass-through data. Frustrating to say the least.:-) Soooooo close!

            I don't think this is a deal breaker for the 72.;-) If one is going to be using the 72 with a moving laptop, just get a USB GPS receiver for the laptop. They're pretty cheap now and all the tracking programs allow one to setup a port for it. A nice alternative is if you're going to be in a semi fixed position, just use a handheld GPS to get a fix and put it into whatever tracking program you are using manually.

            I remember reading where Don Arnold, W6GPS, who I think may have had a connection with Kenwood, said he was bringing the subject up with the
            engineers. Never did see a followup post from him after that. I think Don sold his 72 and not active with it anymore. (Correct me if I'm wrong here. I did a search and saw he last used a 72 2/11 and looks like he's on a 710 these days.)

            Anyone ever get a D7A(g) to transmit with APRSIS-32? I had problems but gave up on trying to get it to work a long time ago. It receives just fine and since I have a 72 I just use it instead with that program.

            Since I can't set APRSIS-32 to track a waypoint and record it for later playback, I don't use it for that purpose. Xastir and UI-View will accomplish that task. (If that's changed let me know.:-) )

            As an aside, I ran Xastir and APRSIS-32 simultaneously on a 2.2Ghz laptop
            in receive only mode. APRSIS-32 was running under WINE and with both programs going there was like 20% cpu resources used of the dual core cpu.
            I used a TNC-X with a generic rig and the 72 or D7A(g) on another port.
            Kinda weird bouncing back and forth in realtime between the two.:-)

            Kurt KC9LDH
          • Nigel Gunn G8IFF/W8IFF
            I m assuming that, as the radio s internal software can see and use both, it could pipe the GPS sentences out the USB port.
            Message 5 of 26 , Jul 3, 2011
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              I'm assuming that, as the radio's internal software can see and use both, it could pipe the GPS sentences out the USB port.


              On 03-Jul-11 19:38, Kurt Savegnago wrote:

              > You make an excellent point there Nigel. Ff there isn't already some sort of internal connection in the 72 to pass through the iGPS information while in the TNC mode or APRS mode, it isn't going to happen. There has to be the potential for a software change (ie. firmware) to "turn on" that pass-through. If it doesn't already exist, it won't happen with this current iteration of the 72.
              >
            • Kurt Savegnago
              Yes, If one wants to use GPS only, one could pipe the sentences out of the port. I saw someone question why use the GPS without the radio on? The answer was
              Message 6 of 26 , Jul 3, 2011
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                Yes,

                If one wants to use GPS only, one could pipe the sentences out of the port. I saw someone question why use the GPS without the radio on? The answer was a person could use the 72 as a GPS data logger on their person or whatever and the battery would power the GPS for something like 30 hours.
                The new updated 72 manual that Kenwood has out that Bob Bruninga annotated has more details about that.

                Kurt KC9LDH

                --- On Sun, 7/3/11, Nigel Gunn G8IFF/W8IFF <nigel@...> wrote:

                > From: Nigel Gunn G8IFF/W8IFF <nigel@...>
                > Subject: Re: [aprsisce] Kenwood TH-D72E (GPS pass-through)
                > To: aprsisce@yahoogroups.com
                > Cc: "Kurt Savegnago" <ksaves2@...>
                > Date: Sunday, July 3, 2011, 3:44 PM

                >
                > I'm assuming that, as the radio's internal
                > software can see and use both, it could pipe the GPS
                > sentences out the USB port.
                >
                >
                >
                > On 03-Jul-11 19:38, Kurt Savegnago wrote:
                >
                >
                >
                > > You make an excellent point there Nigel. Ff there
                > isn't already some sort of internal connection in the 72
                > to pass through the iGPS information while in the TNC mode
                > or APRS mode, it isn't going to happen. There has to be
                > the potential for a software change (ie. firmware) to
                > "turn on" that pass-through. If it doesn't
                > already exist, it won't happen with this current
                > iteration of the 72.
              • Lynn W Deffenbaugh (Mr)
                ... Given what I ve seen in some hardware/firmware designs, making assumptions about what firmware can do along these lines can be quite .... interesting (see
                Message 7 of 26 , Jul 3, 2011
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                  On 7/3/2011 4:44 PM, Nigel Gunn G8IFF/W8IFF wrote:
                  > I'm assuming that, as the radio's internal software can see and use both, it could pipe the GPS sentences out the USB port.

                  Given what I've seen in some hardware/firmware designs, making
                  assumptions about what firmware can do along these lines can be quite
                  .... interesting (see Notes at the end of
                  http://uncyclopedia.wikia.com/wiki/Assume).

                  Things that seem easy to the non-embedded programming world can
                  sometimes be non-trivial in an embedded system like a radio. Simply
                  arbitrating and interleaving TNC and GPS data to the USB port can be
                  more difficult than it would seem.

                  Lynn (D) - KJ4ERJ - Author of APRSISCE for Windows Mobile and Win32


                  >
                  > On 03-Jul-11 19:38, Kurt Savegnago wrote:
                  >
                  >> You make an excellent point there Nigel. Ff there isn't already some sort of internal connection in the 72 to pass through the iGPS information while in the TNC mode or APRS mode, it isn't going to happen. There has to be the potential for a software change (ie. firmware) to "turn on" that pass-through. If it doesn't already exist, it won't happen with this current iteration of the 72.
                  >>
                  >
                  > ------------------------------------
                  >
                  > Yahoo! Groups Links
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                • James Ewen
                  ... How hard can it be? You aptly described it in one succinct sentence! 8) -- James VE6SRV
                  Message 8 of 26 , Jul 3, 2011
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                    On Sun, Jul 3, 2011 at 5:09 PM, Lynn W Deffenbaugh (Mr) <kj4erj@...> wrote:

                    > Simply arbitrating and interleaving  TNC and GPS data to the USB port can be
                    > more difficult than it would seem.

                    How hard can it be? You aptly described it in one succinct sentence!

                    8)

                    --
                    James
                    VE6SRV
                  • Charles Blackburn
                    Well if the receiving software was expecting kiss frames, I would barf on the gps sentences :) Then you get into the complicated realms of a proprietry data
                    Message 9 of 26 , Jul 3, 2011
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                      Well if the receiving software was expecting kiss frames, I would barf on
                      the gps sentences :)

                      Then you get into the complicated realms of a proprietry data stream.

                      Charlie
                    • Bob Harris
                      With 30 years of doing programming for embedded systems, I can wholeheartedly concur with Lynn ... -- Bob Harris (K9UDX) Bath, NH
                      Message 10 of 26 , Jul 3, 2011
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                        With 30 years of doing programming for embedded systems, I can wholeheartedly concur with Lynn

                        On 7/3/2011 7:09 PM, Lynn W Deffenbaugh (Mr) wrote:
                        Things that seem easy to the non-embedded programming world can
                        sometimes be non-trivial in an embedded system like a radio. Simply
                        arbitrating and interleaving TNC and GPS data to the USB port can be
                        more difficult than it would seem.

                        --

                        Bob Harris (K9UDX)
                        Bath, NH

                      • James Ewen
                        You guys are like a wet blanket on a fire! A good software guy can make the hardware do things it never was intended for! 8). BTW, that s a smiley face, aka
                        Message 11 of 26 , Jul 3, 2011
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                          You guys are like a wet blanket on a fire! A good software guy can
                          make the hardware do things it never was intended for!

                          8). BTW, that's a smiley face, aka joking!



                          On 7/3/11, Bob Harris <knineudx@...> wrote:
                          > With 30 years of doing programming for embedded systems, I can
                          > wholeheartedly concur with Lynn
                          >
                          > On 7/3/2011 7:09 PM, Lynn W Deffenbaugh (Mr) wrote:
                          >> Things that seem easy to the non-embedded programming world can
                          >> sometimes be non-trivial in an embedded system like a radio. Simply
                          >> arbitrating and interleaving TNC and GPS data to the USB port can be
                          >> more difficult than it would seem.
                          >
                          > --
                          >
                          > Bob Harris (K9UDX)
                          > Bath, NH
                          >
                          >


                          --
                          James
                          VE6SRV
                        • Charles Blackburn
                          Sorry.. us embedded programmers must tick together otherwise we ll need to switch banks :) Charlie ... From: aprsisce@yahoogroups.com
                          Message 12 of 26 , Jul 3, 2011
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                            Sorry.. us embedded programmers must tick together otherwise we'll need to
                            switch banks :)

                            Charlie


                            -----Original Message-----
                            From: aprsisce@yahoogroups.com [mailto:aprsisce@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf
                            Of James Ewen
                            Sent: Sunday, July 03, 2011 8:20 PM
                            To: aprsisce@yahoogroups.com
                            Subject: Re: [aprsisce] Kenwood TH-D72E (GPS pass-through)

                            You guys are like a wet blanket on a fire! A good software guy can
                            make the hardware do things it never was intended for!
                          • Bob Harris
                            More than once I had to do stuff in the firmware to cover mistakes in the hardware. Hi Hi ... -- Bob Harris (K9UDX) Bath, NH
                            Message 13 of 26 , Jul 3, 2011
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                              More than once I had to do stuff in the firmware to cover mistakes in the hardware. Hi Hi

                              On 7/3/2011 8:19 PM, James Ewen wrote: You guys are like a wet blanket on a fire! A good software guy can
                              make the hardware do things it never was intended for!

                              --

                              Bob Harris (K9UDX)
                              Bath, NH

                            • wayne snell
                              Hi this is Wayne KC9RMK I dont mean to sound ignorant but how do you go about getting your password for APRSISCEWIN32 I m new to the group HELP? ... From: Lynn
                              Message 14 of 26 , Jul 3, 2011
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                                Hi this is Wayne KC9RMK I dont mean to sound ignorant but how do you go about getting your password for APRSISCEWIN32 I'm new to the group HELP?

                                --- On Sun, 7/3/11, Lynn W Deffenbaugh (Mr) <kj4erj@...> wrote:

                                From: Lynn W Deffenbaugh (Mr) <kj4erj@...>
                                Subject: Re: [aprsisce] Kenwood TH-D72E (GPS pass-through)
                                To: aprsisce@yahoogroups.com
                                Date: Sunday, July 3, 2011, 6:09 PM

                                 
                                On 7/3/2011 4:44 PM, Nigel Gunn G8IFF/W8IFF wrote:
                                > I'm assuming that, as the radio's internal software can see and use both, it could pipe the GPS sentences out the USB port.

                                Given what I've seen in some hardware/firmware designs, making
                                assumptions about what firmware can do along these lines can be quite
                                .... interesting (see Notes at the end of
                                http://uncyclopedia.wikia.com/wiki/Assume).

                                Things that seem easy to the non-embedded programming world can
                                sometimes be non-trivial in an embedded system like a radio. Simply
                                arbitrating and interleaving TNC and GPS data to the USB port can be
                                more difficult than it would seem.

                                Lynn (D) - KJ4ERJ - Author of APRSISCE for Windows Mobile and Win32

                                >
                                > On 03-Jul-11 19:38, Kurt Savegnago wrote:
                                >
                                >> You make an excellent point there Nigel. Ff there isn't already some sort of internal connection in the 72 to pass through the iGPS information while in the TNC mode or APRS mode, it isn't going to happen. There has to be the potential for a software change (ie. firmware) to "turn on" that pass-through. If it doesn't already exist, it won't happen with this current iteration of the 72.
                                >>
                                >
                                > ------------------------------------
                                >
                                > Yahoo! Groups Links
                                >
                                >
                                >
                                >

                              • Greg D
                                More than once? Heck, I ve always thought it was an expected part of the job! To rephrase Jame s comment, a good software guy can make the hardware do things
                                Message 15 of 26 , Jul 3, 2011
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                                  More than once?  Heck, I've always thought it was an expected part of the job!  To rephrase Jame's comment, a good software guy can make the hardware do things it was intended to do, but failed.

                                  Greg  KO6TH


                                  Bob Harris wrote:
                                   

                                  More than once I had to do stuff in the firmware to cover mistakes in the hardware. Hi Hi

                                  On 7/3/2011 8:19 PM, James Ewen wrote:

                                  You guys are like a wet blanket on a fire! A good software guy can
                                  make the hardware do things it never was intended for!

                                  --

                                  Bob Harris (K9UDX)
                                  Bath, NH

                              • James Ewen
                                Just ask for a password, and supply a callsign to associate it against, and a way to send it to you. I can send it to you as soon as I get home from supper.
                                Message 16 of 26 , Jul 3, 2011
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                                  Just ask for a password, and supply a callsign to associate it
                                  against, and a way to send it to you.

                                  I can send it to you as soon as I get home from supper. Lynn will
                                  probably beat me to it though.



                                  On 7/3/11, wayne snell <fishing948@...> wrote:
                                  > Hi this is Wayne KC9RMK I dont mean to sound ignorant but how do you go
                                  > about getting your password for APRSISCEWIN32 I'm new to the group HELP?
                                  >
                                  > --- On Sun, 7/3/11, Lynn W Deffenbaugh (Mr) <kj4erj@...> wrote:
                                  >
                                  >
                                  > From: Lynn W Deffenbaugh (Mr) <kj4erj@...>
                                  > Subject: Re: [aprsisce] Kenwood TH-D72E (GPS pass-through)
                                  > To: aprsisce@yahoogroups.com
                                  > Date: Sunday, July 3, 2011, 6:09 PM
                                  >
                                  >
                                  >
                                  >
                                  >
                                  >
                                  > On 7/3/2011 4:44 PM, Nigel Gunn G8IFF/W8IFF wrote:
                                  >> I'm assuming that, as the radio's internal software can see and use both,
                                  >> it could pipe the GPS sentences out the USB port.
                                  >
                                  > Given what I've seen in some hardware/firmware designs, making
                                  > assumptions about what firmware can do along these lines can be quite
                                  > .... interesting (see Notes at the end of
                                  > http://uncyclopedia.wikia.com/wiki/Assume).
                                  >
                                  > Things that seem easy to the non-embedded programming world can
                                  > sometimes be non-trivial in an embedded system like a radio. Simply
                                  > arbitrating and interleaving TNC and GPS data to the USB port can be
                                  > more difficult than it would seem.
                                  >
                                  > Lynn (D) - KJ4ERJ - Author of APRSISCE for Windows Mobile and Win32
                                  >
                                  >>
                                  >> On 03-Jul-11 19:38, Kurt Savegnago wrote:
                                  >>
                                  >>> You make an excellent point there Nigel. Ff there isn't already some sort
                                  >>> of internal connection in the 72 to pass through the iGPS information
                                  >>> while in the TNC mode or APRS mode, it isn't going to happen. There has
                                  >>> to be the potential for a software change (ie. firmware) to "turn on"
                                  >>> that pass-through. If it doesn't already exist, it won't happen with this
                                  >>> current iteration of the 72.
                                  >>>
                                  >>
                                  >> ------------------------------------
                                  >>
                                  >> Yahoo! Groups Links
                                  >>
                                  >>
                                  >>
                                  >>
                                  >
                                  >
                                  >
                                  >
                                  >
                                  >
                                  >


                                  --
                                  James
                                  VE6SRV
                                • Rud Merriam
                                  But Lynn, Its only software . LOL - 73 - *Rud Merriam K5RUD Emergency Coordinator /Montgomery County ARES® / * /Mystic Lake Software
                                  Message 17 of 26 , Jul 3, 2011
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                                    But Lynn, "Its only software". LOL

                                    - 73 -
                                    Rud Merriam K5RUD
                                    Emergency Coordinator
                                    Montgomery County ARES®
                                    Mystic Lake Software

                                    On 7/3/2011 6:09 PM, Lynn W Deffenbaugh (Mr) wrote:
                                     

                                    On 7/3/2011 4:44 PM, Nigel Gunn G8IFF/W8IFF wrote:
                                    > I'm assuming that, as the radio's internal software can see and use both, it could pipe the GPS sentences out the USB port.

                                    Given what I've seen in some hardware/firmware designs, making
                                    assumptions about what firmware can do along these lines can be quite
                                    .... interesting (see Notes at the end of
                                    http://uncyclopedia.wikia.com/wiki/Assume).

                                    Things that seem easy to the non-embedded programming world can
                                    sometimes be non-trivial in an embedded system like a radio. Simply
                                    arbitrating and interleaving TNC and GPS data to the USB port can be
                                    more difficult than it would seem.

                                    Lynn (D) - KJ4ERJ - Author of APRSISCE for Windows Mobile and Win32

                                    >
                                    > On 03-Jul-11 19:38, Kurt Savegnago wrote:
                                    >
                                    >> You make an excellent point there Nigel. Ff there isn't already some sort of internal connection in the 72 to pass through the iGPS information while in the TNC mode or APRS mode, it isn't going to happen. There has to be the potential for a software change (ie. firmware) to "turn on" that pass-through. If it doesn't already exist, it won't happen with this current iteration of the 72.
                                    >>
                                    >
                                    > ------------------------------------
                                    >
                                    > Yahoo! Groups Links
                                    >
                                    >
                                    >
                                    >

                                  • Rud Merriam
                                    Or spend hours figuring out what was wrong with the hardware and then spend more time writing a simple program that would convincingly demonstrate to the
                                    Message 18 of 26 , Jul 3, 2011
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                                      Or spend hours figuring out what was wrong with the hardware and then spend more time writing a simple program that would convincingly demonstrate to the hardware guy that the hardware actually was wrong, e.g like the signal is supposed to be inverted here but isn't.

                                      - 73 -
                                      Rud Merriam K5RUD
                                      Emergency Coordinator
                                      Montgomery County ARES®
                                      Mystic Lake Software

                                      On 7/3/2011 7:29 PM, Bob Harris wrote:
                                       

                                      More than once I had to do stuff in the firmware to cover mistakes in the hardware. Hi Hi

                                      On 7/3/2011 8:19 PM, James Ewen wrote:

                                      You guys are like a wet blanket on a fire! A good software guy can
                                      make the hardware do things it never was intended for!

                                      --

                                      Bob Harris (K9UDX)
                                      Bath, NH

                                    • Randy Thomson
                                      Or, if you already have one for APRSpoint network connection, it s the same one. From: aprsisce@yahoogroups.com [mailto:aprsisce@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of
                                      Message 19 of 26 , Jul 3, 2011
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                                        Or, if you already have one for APRSpoint network connection, it’s the same one.

                                         

                                        From: aprsisce@yahoogroups.com [mailto:aprsisce@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of James Ewen
                                        Sent: Sunday, July 03, 2011 8:22 PM
                                        To: aprsisce@yahoogroups.com
                                        Subject: Re: [aprsisce] Kenwood TH-D72E (GPS pass-through)

                                         

                                         

                                        Just ask for a password, and supply a callsign to associate it
                                        against, and a way to send it to you.

                                        I can send it to you as soon as I get home from supper. Lynn will
                                        probably beat me to it though.

                                        On 7/3/11, wayne snell <fishing948@...> wrote:
                                        > Hi this is Wayne KC9RMK I dont mean to sound ignorant but how do you go
                                        > about getting your password for APRSISCEWIN32 I'm new to the group HELP?
                                        >
                                        > --- On Sun, 7/3/11, Lynn W Deffenbaugh (Mr) <kj4erj@...> wrote:
                                        >
                                        >
                                        > From: Lynn W Deffenbaugh (Mr) <kj4erj@...>
                                        > Subject: Re: [aprsisce] Kenwood TH-D72E (GPS pass-through)
                                        > To: aprsisce@yahoogroups.com
                                        > Date: Sunday, July 3, 2011, 6:09 PM
                                        >
                                        >
                                        >
                                        >
                                        >
                                        >
                                        > On 7/3/2011 4:44 PM, Nigel Gunn G8IFF/W8IFF wrote:
                                        >> I'm assuming that, as the radio's internal software can see and use both,
                                        >> it could pipe the GPS sentences out the USB port.
                                        >
                                        > Given what I've seen in some hardware/firmware designs, making
                                        > assumptions about what firmware can do along these lines can be quite
                                        > .... interesting (see Notes at the end of
                                        > http://uncyclopedia.wikia.com/wiki/Assume).
                                        >
                                        > Things that seem easy to the non-embedded programming world can
                                        > sometimes be non-trivial in an embedded system like a radio. Simply
                                        > arbitrating and interleaving TNC and GPS data to the USB port can be
                                        > more difficult than it would seem.
                                        >
                                        > Lynn (D) - KJ4ERJ - Author of APRSISCE for Windows Mobile and Win32
                                        >
                                        >>
                                        >> On 03-Jul-11 19:38, Kurt Savegnago wrote:
                                        >>
                                        >>> You make an excellent point there Nigel. Ff there isn't already some sort
                                        >>> of internal connection in the 72 to pass through the iGPS information
                                        >>> while in the TNC mode or APRS mode, it isn't going to happen. There has
                                        >>> to be the potential for a software change (ie. firmware) to "turn on"
                                        >>> that pass-through. If it doesn't already exist, it won't happen with this
                                        >>> current iteration of the 72.
                                        >>>
                                        >>
                                        >> ------------------------------------
                                        >>
                                        >> Yahoo! Groups Links
                                        >>
                                        >>
                                        >>
                                        >>
                                        >
                                        >
                                        >
                                        >
                                        >
                                        >
                                        >

                                        --
                                        James
                                        VE6SRV

                                      • Kurt Savegnago
                                        Say that to the VX-8R people who were fantasizing all the neat B/T things they were going to see with the -8R all with a firmware update.  Things like
                                        Message 20 of 26 , Jul 4, 2011
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                                          Say that to the VX-8R people who were fantasizing all the "neat" B/T things they were going to see with the -8R all with a "firmware" update.  Things like taking the GPS strings
                                          off the GPS through a B/T pairing or pair with an external GPS that is B/T capable. Sheesh.

                                          Turns out that the B/T for that unit was for pairing with a headset only and the Yaesu H/T products will never be able to use any GPS but what Yaesu provides. (Unless they redesign the hardware)

                                          In the end, the -8R got a firmware update where one had to send the unit  back for a board
                                          exchange to DR specs.  Sort of like what KW did with the D7A to D7A(g)

                                          Folks, if it ain't there in the hardware in the first place, it ain't going to be "turned on" by the software. There has to be the potential for the electrons to flow and do the job intended.
                                          Sometimes minor changes can be made by a firmware change due to the complexities of
                                          the hardware but most of these are subtle.  Look at the notes with each D72a firmware updates.  They fix relatively minor things. Those "things" were in the hardware design to
                                          be turned off or on in the first place.

                                          Many devices are over designed with possibilities and sometimes simple code changes can change the character of the device.  Major changes (like converting an audio B/T link to a full featured data link in the VX-8R) isn't going to happen without a major hardware change.  It's just that simple.

                                          Firmware coding is not magic.  The trait or feature you want has to be there to be turned on.  If it's not there in the hardware, it's no deal unless the hardware is redesigned.

                                                                                                 Kurt KC9LDH

                                          --- On Sun, 7/3/11, Greg D <ko6th.greg@...> wrote:

                                          From: Greg D <ko6th.greg@...>
                                          Subject: Re: [aprsisce] Kenwood TH-D72E (GPS pass-through)
                                          To: aprsisce@yahoogroups.com
                                          Date: Sunday, July 3, 2011, 8:00 PM

                                           

                                          More than once?  Heck, I've always thought it was an expected part of the job!  To rephrase Jame's comment, a good software guy can make the hardware do things it was intended to do, but failed.

                                          Greg  KO6TH


                                          Bob Harris wrote:

                                           

                                          More than once I had to do stuff in the firmware to cover mistakes in the hardware. Hi Hi

                                          On 7/3/2011 8:19 PM, James Ewen wrote:

                                          You guys are like a wet blanket on a fire! A good software guy can
                                          make the hardware do things it never was intended for!

                                          --

                                          Bob Harris (K9UDX)
                                          Bath, NH

                                        • Greg D
                                          Yes, indeed. In addition, consider that the manufacturer s software team probably has lots of things to do, and while it s amazing what a software team CAN do,
                                          Message 21 of 26 , Jul 4, 2011
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                                            Yes, indeed.

                                            In addition, consider that the manufacturer's software team probably has lots of things to do, and while it's amazing what a software team CAN do, what they are ALLOWED to do by time, risk, and profit potential can be substantially less.  Embedded systems, considerably more so than other forms of software development, can be frightfully difficult to work on, and even more difficult to test.  And there's always the risk (cost) of a warranty call when someone bricks their product because they had the one magic setting in their configuration that you hadn't considered.  And don't even think about changing anything that might affect a government approval (e.g. anything affecting RF), since those are costly and time consuming to obtain.

                                            So, be sure you will be happy with the product as it ships from the factory.  Any upgrades may be a pleasant surprise, but should not be counted on.

                                            Greg  KO6TH

                                            p.s. all the more reason for someone to open-source the non-RF portion of their product.  That would be a game changer.


                                            Kurt Savegnago wrote:
                                             

                                            Say that to the VX-8R people who were fantasizing all the "neat" B/T things they were going to see with the -8R all with a "firmware" update.  Things like taking the GPS strings
                                            off the GPS through a B/T pairing or pair with an external GPS that is B/T capable. Sheesh.

                                            Turns out that the B/T for that unit was for pairing with a headset only and the Yaesu H/T products will never be able to use any GPS but what Yaesu provides. (Unless they redesign the hardware)

                                            In the end, the -8R got a firmware update where one had to send the unit  back for a board
                                            exchange to DR specs.  Sort of like what KW did with the D7A to D7A(g)

                                            Folks, if it ain't there in the hardware in the first place, it ain't going to be "turned on" by the software. There has to be the potential for the electrons to flow and do the job intended.
                                            Sometimes minor changes can be made by a firmware change due to the complexities of
                                            the hardware but most of these are subtle.  Look at the notes with each D72a firmware updates.  They fix relatively minor things. Those "things" were in the hardware design to
                                            be turned off or on in the first place.

                                            Many devices are over designed with possibilities and sometimes simple code changes can change the character of the device.  Major changes (like converting an audio B/T link to a full featured data link in the VX-8R) isn't going to happen without a major hardware change.  It's just that simple.

                                            Firmware coding is not magic.  The trait or feature you want has to be there to be turned on.  If it's not there in the hardware, it's no deal unless the hardware is redesigned.

                                                                                                   Kurt KC9LDH

                                            --- On Sun, 7/3/11, Greg D <ko6th.greg@...> wrote:

                                            From: Greg D <ko6th.greg@...>
                                            Subject: Re: [aprsisce] Kenwood TH-D72E (GPS pass-through)
                                            To: aprsisce@yahoogroups.com
                                            Date: Sunday, July 3, 2011, 8:00 PM

                                             

                                            More than once?  Heck, I've always thought it was an expected part of the job!  To rephrase Jame's comment, a good software guy can make the hardware do things it was intended to do, but failed.

                                            Greg  KO6TH


                                            Bob Harris wrote:

                                             

                                            More than once I had to do stuff in the firmware to cover mistakes in the hardware. Hi Hi

                                            On 7/3/2011 8:19 PM, James Ewen wrote:

                                            You guys are like a wet blanket on a fire! A good software guy can
                                            make the hardware do things it never was intended for!

                                            --

                                            Bob Harris (K9UDX)
                                            Bath, NH

                                          • JF Lorne
                                            Hello, all is working as it must work, and APRSIS is a very nice soft, even is i cannot load a personnal map. Here is Africa, we still need scanned maps But i
                                            Message 22 of 26 , Jul 5, 2011
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                                              Hello,
                                               
                                              all is working as it must work, and APRSIS is a very nice soft, even is i cannot load a personnal map. Here is Africa, we still need scanned maps
                                               
                                              But i cannot imagine (understand) why they don't think to implement this function: both APRS and GPS. For me it is so necessary!
                                               
                                              Tks for all ansewers. Best 73.
                                              JF Lorne
                                              http://www.le-calao.com
                                              ---------------------------------
                                              39, rue de la grande vallée
                                              91150 Puiselet le marais France
                                              ---------------------------------
                                              Tél.: 33 (0) 1 64 95 81 30
                                              Tél.: 33 (0) 1 46 55 11 67
                                              Port.: 33 (0)6 50 35 84 12
                                              ----- Original Message -----
                                              From: Greg D
                                              Sent: Monday, July 04, 2011 5:06 PM
                                              Subject: Re: [aprsisce] Kenwood TH-D72E (GPS pass-through)

                                               

                                              Yes, indeed.

                                              In addition, consider that the manufacturer's software team probably has lots of things to do, and while it's amazing what a software team CAN do, what they are ALLOWED to do by time, risk, and profit potential can be substantially less.  Embedded systems, considerably more so than other forms of software development, can be frightfully difficult to work on, and even more difficult to test.  And there's always the risk (cost) of a warranty call when someone bricks their product because they had the one magic setting in their configuration that you hadn't considered.  And don't even think about changing anything that might affect a government approval (e.g. anything affecting RF), since those are costly and time consuming to obtain.

                                              So, be sure you will be happy with the product as it ships from the factory.  Any upgrades may be a pleasant surprise, but should not be counted on.

                                              Greg  KO6TH

                                              p.s. all the more reason for someone to open-source the non-RF portion of their product.  That would be a game changer.


                                              Kurt Savegnago wrote:  

                                              Say that to the VX-8R people who were fantasizing all the "neat" B/T things they were going to see with the -8R all with a "firmware" update.  Things like taking the GPS strings
                                              off the GPS through a B/T pairing or pair with an external GPS that is B/T capable. Sheesh.

                                              Turns out that the B/T for that unit was for pairing with a headset only and the Yaesu H/T products will never be able to use any GPS but what Yaesu provides. (Unless they redesign the hardware)

                                              In the end, the -8R got a firmware update where one had to send the unit  back for a board
                                              exchange to DR specs.  Sort of like what KW did with the D7A to D7A(g)

                                              Folks, if it ain't there in the hardware in the first place, it ain't going to be "turned on" by the software. There has to be the potential for the electrons to flow and do the job intended.
                                              Sometimes minor changes can be made by a firmware change due to the complexities of
                                              the hardware but most of these are subtle.  Look at the notes with each D72a firmware updates.  They fix relatively minor things. Those "things" were in the hardware design to
                                              be turned off or on in the first place.

                                              Many devices are over designed with possibilities and sometimes simple code changes can change the character of the device.  Major changes (like converting an audio B/T link to a full featured data link in the VX-8R) isn't going to happen without a major hardware change.  It's just that simple.

                                              Firmware coding is not magic.  The trait or feature you want has to be there to be turned on.  If it's not there in the hardware, it's no deal unless the hardware is redesigned.

                                                                                                     Kurt KC9LDH

                                              --- On Sun, 7/3/11, Greg D <ko6th.greg@...> wrote:

                                              From: Greg D <ko6th.greg@...>
                                              Subject: Re: [aprsisce] Kenwood TH-D72E (GPS pass-through)
                                              To: aprsisce@yahoogroups.com
                                              Date: Sunday, July 3, 2011, 8:00 PM

                                               

                                              More than once?  Heck, I've always thought it was an expected part of the job!  To rephrase Jame's comment, a good software guy can make the hardware do things it was intended to do, but failed.

                                              Greg  KO6TH


                                              Bob Harris wrote:

                                               

                                              More than once I had to do stuff in the firmware to cover mistakes in the hardware. Hi Hi

                                              On 7/3/2011 8:19 PM, James Ewen wrote:

                                              You guys are like a wet blanket on a fire! A good software guy can
                                              make the hardware do things it never was intended for!

                                              --

                                              Bob Harris (K9UDX)
                                              Bath, NH

                                            • James Ewen
                                              ... No you don t... http://www.openstreetmap.org/?lat=14.48679&lon=-17.07513&zoom=15&layers=M There are streets in La Somone. You can add more detail by
                                              Message 23 of 26 , Jul 5, 2011
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                                                On Tue, Jul 5, 2011 at 6:18 AM, JF Lorne <jf.lorne@...> wrote:

                                                > all is working as it must work, and APRSIS is a very nice soft,
                                                > even is i cannot load a personnal map. Here is Africa, we still
                                                > need scanned maps

                                                No you don't...
                                                http://www.openstreetmap.org/?lat=14.48679&lon=-17.07513&zoom=15&layers=M

                                                There are streets in La Somone. You can add more detail by joining OSM
                                                and adding the detail that you want.

                                                > But i cannot imagine (understand) why they don't think to
                                                > implement this function: both APRS and GPS. For me it is so necessary!

                                                Lynn has scanned maps on the "to do" list, but they aren't implemented
                                                yet. In the mean time, grab your GPS and wander the streets, gather
                                                tracks, upload them to OSM, and make your own maps.

                                                --
                                                James
                                                VE6SRV
                                              • Fred Hillhouse
                                                Someone has to be the watchdog? ;) _____ From: aprsisce@yahoogroups.com [mailto:aprsisce@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Charles Blackburn Sent: Sunday, July 03,
                                                Message 24 of 26 , Jul 5, 2011
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                                                  Someone has to be the watchdog?
                                                   
                                                  ;)


                                                  From: aprsisce@yahoogroups.com [mailto:aprsisce@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Charles Blackburn
                                                  Sent: Sunday, July 03, 2011 20:27
                                                  To: aprsisce@yahoogroups.com
                                                  Subject: RE: [aprsisce] Kenwood TH-D72E (GPS pass-through)

                                                   

                                                  Sorry.. us embedded programmers must tick together otherwise we'll need to
                                                  switch banks :)

                                                  Charlie

                                                  -----Original Message-----
                                                  From: aprsisce@yahoogroups.com [mailto:aprsisce@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf
                                                  Of James Ewen
                                                  Sent: Sunday, July 03, 2011 8:20 PM
                                                  To: aprsisce@yahoogroups.com
                                                  Subject: Re: [aprsisce] Kenwood TH-D72E (GPS pass-through)

                                                  You guys are like a wet blanket on a fire! A good software guy can
                                                  make the hardware do things it never was intended for!

                                                • Fred Hillhouse
                                                  Typing? ;) _____ From: aprsisce@yahoogroups.com [mailto:aprsisce@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Rud Merriam Sent: Sunday, July 03, 2011 21:25 To:
                                                  Message 25 of 26 , Jul 5, 2011
                                                  • 0 Attachment
                                                    Typing?
                                                     
                                                    ;)


                                                    From: aprsisce@yahoogroups.com [mailto:aprsisce@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Rud Merriam
                                                    Sent: Sunday, July 03, 2011 21:25
                                                    To: aprsisce@yahoogroups.com
                                                    Subject: Re: [aprsisce] Kenwood TH-D72E (GPS pass-through)

                                                     

                                                    But Lynn, "Its only software". LOL


                                                    - 73 -
                                                    Rud Merriam K5RUD
                                                    Emergency Coordinator
                                                    Montgomery County ARES®
                                                    Mystic Lake Software

                                                    On 7/3/2011 6:09 PM, Lynn W Deffenbaugh (Mr) wrote:
                                                     

                                                    On 7/3/2011 4:44 PM, Nigel Gunn G8IFF/W8IFF wrote:
                                                    > I'm assuming that, as the radio's internal software can see and use both, it could pipe the GPS sentences out the USB port.

                                                    Given what I've seen in some hardware/firmware designs, making
                                                    assumptions about what firmware can do along these lines can be quite
                                                    .... interesting (see Notes at the end of
                                                    http://uncyclopedia.wikia.com/wiki/Assume).

                                                    Things that seem easy to the non-embedded programming world can
                                                    sometimes be non-trivial in an embedded system like a radio. Simply
                                                    arbitrating and interleaving TNC and GPS data to the USB port can be
                                                    more difficult than it would seem.

                                                    Lynn (D) - KJ4ERJ - Author of APRSISCE for Windows Mobile and Win32

                                                    >
                                                    > On 03-Jul-11 19:38, Kurt Savegnago wrote:
                                                    >
                                                    >> You make an excellent point there Nigel. Ff there isn't already some sort of internal connection in the 72 to pass through the iGPS information while in the TNC mode or APRS mode, it isn't going to happen. There has to be the potential for a software change (ie. firmware) to "turn on" that pass-through. If it doesn't already exist, it won't happen with this current iteration of the 72.
                                                    >>
                                                    >
                                                    > ------------------------------------
                                                    >
                                                    > Yahoo! Groups Links
                                                    >
                                                    >
                                                    >
                                                    >

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