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22881RE: [aprsisce] Strange path for repeater object.

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  • Tony VE6MVP
    May 11, 2013
      At 05:44 PM 2013-05-10, Robert Bruninga wrote:

      Agreed, however do note that because I was not using WIDEx-x in the strange paths the repeater object was not "leaking" outside it's intended path.

      Also you can sort the objects by distance rather than arrival time in the D710.    That said I suspect on my next long distance trip, which will be in a few days, I'm going to leave my Nuvi 350/OT2 displaying received objects sorted by distance and the D710 sorted by arrival time.    Of course most of the time I will be in rural Alberta so I'll be fortunate if there are any objects other than digis and repeaters in my top 5 list.  <smile>    And there will almost certainly be 20 or 50 mile stretches where I won't be hearing anything.

      Hmm, I gotta RTFM the D710 manual and figure out how to display the frequency on the APRS comment screen.

      And, now that I think about it, I think I'm going to have them both doing Smart Beaconing, with two different SSIDs for much of the trip and do a subjective comparison of the difference between 5 and 50 watts output on most of my trip.   For about an hour or two I'll be near a large city, Calgary, where I'll probably turn one off just to minimize congestion on the local frequency.


      Conversely, There is nothing more irritating that getting freq objects about repeaters a hundred miles away that are impossible to hit (from the area whre I just received the packet).  The reason it is irritating, is that when one see’s one  pop up on the front panel of the radio one should –assume- he can hit it.  I just hit tune, and make a call.  7 times out of 10 my call is unsuccessful because the repeater is actually a hundred miles away and is being improperly flooded all over the place.

      The reason this is so irritating, is because we must be concerned with driver safety.  The function is supposed to be a one-button QSY function.  Yet, 7 tiumes out of 10, I cant hit it, and they I begin *unsafely* poking round on the radio to try to figure out why…


      Bob, WB4aPR


      From: aprsisce@yahoogroups.com [ mailto:aprsisce@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Tony VE6MVP
      Sent: Friday, May 10, 2013 7:20 PM
      To: aprsisce@yahoogroups.com
      Cc: bruninga@...
      Subject: RE: [aprsisce] Strange path for repeater object.


      At 05:00 PM 2013-05-10, Robert Bruninga wrote:

      Given that you suggest sourcing the packets at each of the four digipeaters around that repeater object in question makes a lot more sense.  I must admit I was thinking in terms of only the single "closest" digi to the repeater.   Blind spot on my part.   <smile>   And when I review your web page I'm thinking you might want to add a sentence along those lines.   My conceited attitude is that if I miss something other folks likely will be missing the same concept.

      BTW the digis in question are up to 30 or 40 kms from the repeater object.

      I'll talk to the folks who run those digis and we'll see what we can do.





      Thanks for the very informative info.  But I fear this technique sets  bad example…


      > Therefore, in my opinion, some objects such as repeater objects,

      > should be one hop digipeated by the various digipeaters around the object.


      We agree completely in ever digi putting out the info, but every DIGi should source this info, and most digipeaters have BEACON room for 2 or 3 of them.  And I do like to see this local info…, but the objects should be “sourced” by those 4 digipeaters with a direct path (no hops) so that the DIGI only transmits them when the channel is clear.  Only the digipeaters can hear their “input area” and so only they can add this info to the channel so  they do not  collide with any user packets at all.


      Sourcing them at one place and having them bounce around to all 4 digis takes up 5 times as much channel capacity.  And none of those packets are guaranteed not to collide with user packets.  But if they are –sourced- at the digi, then the collision potential is zero.


      > The path VERMLN,LLOYD,PROVST,ALIANC is for repeater object 145.29-RW


      Again, that is 5 times the channel QRM compared to the way these objects are supposed to be designed so that they have zero impact on users by having no path and being sourced at each digi.


      >  So basically the packets are travelling in a ring or box   around the repeater.

      But that is the worst possible method generating 5 times the channel load.  The total amount of QRM being generated is as if these beacons were every 2 minutes if you count the total time slots involved.  When sourced at the digis, the time slots count is actually ZERO since the digis will only originate the packet (no hops) when the channel is clear.  So although I keep saying it is 5 times larger, it is really infinitely larger QRM because 5 times larger than nothing is infinite.


      > Also we have a very lightly loaded network out here…


      True, but it sets a bad example and these things tend to get entrenched and hard to correct later.


      Thanks for putting out this info.  I wish more people did it.  But I worry that this is setting a bad example.  My web page that describes all this is on http://aprs.org/localinfo.html


      Hope that helps…



      Bob, Wb4APR

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