Loading ...
Sorry, an error occurred while loading the content.
 

Re: [apologetics and theology] Re: Update on Controversy Over Blood & DNA Found in Dinosaur Bones

Expand Messages
  • Alice Robertson
    Teeth can grow indefinitely? That would make us like hamsters?:) I know hair grows after death, but it s dead protein so that makes sense, but that really
    Message 1 of 6 , May 1, 2013
      Teeth can grow indefinitely? That would make us like hamsters?:) I know
      hair grows after death, but it's dead protein so that makes sense, but that
      really surprised me about the teeth? I guess I thought we were born with
      some sort of teeth pockets formed (but then again when women get their
      ovaries removed sometimes a baby tooth is found in them, so teeth do form
      on a baby while in the womb).

      I thought James Kennedy and Vision Forum were vested in a dinosaur dig, but
      then James Kennedy took a stroke and I lost track of the story (there was a
      big issue over who had the rights before Vision Forum came on the scene,
      but somedays I am clueless about what is true on blogs).

      It's an interesting thread. I wish more people were involved. God bless,
      Alice


      On Wed, May 1, 2013 at 1:43 PM, twotweny <twotweny@...> wrote:

      > **
      >
      >
      > How Hillarious!
      >
      > Why:
      > 1) Last month I listend to the book "Tyrannosaurus Cayon" on CD. While the
      > explorers did not find DNA, it was a fictional book about finding a nearly
      > intect T-rex in New Mexico.
      >
      > 2) I saw Jurrasic Park in 3D IMax about a month ago. Save your money --
      > watch it on cable.
      >
      > But back to the point. About 6 or 7 years ago I listened to a D.James
      > Kenney radio show where he had an guest whose speciality was old bones and
      > fossils. He was on for two shows talking about how bone grouth, rickets,
      > malnutrition have accounted for most of the scientific "evidence" for the
      > "original humans," the "neanderthal/cave" man skeletons that (in quotes
      > because of the high enought of debate among scientists on this).
      >
      > According to this guy, teeth and certain bones in humans can grow
      > indefinitely. And if one is to the believe the Genesis account of people
      > living hundreds of years at a time, this "extreme" bone growth would
      > account for the different form these cave humans had. Also, that some bone
      > diseases were documented to make modern human bone appear exactly like the
      > ones many scientists claim came from "pre humuans." So, these weren't a
      > different subset or progenitor to humans, they were just really old humans,
      > of which some had bone diseases.
      >
      > Did any of you hear this show? Because I can not remember this guy's name,
      > or the dates of the show, just that it was one the radio show D. James
      > Kennedy (Truths That Transform?) used to do before he died. I wanted to get
      > the podcast of the broadcast, but could never get the right dates.
      > But I believe it was around Mid August 2006.
      >
      >
      > --- In apologetics@yahoogroups.com, B1E1Nugent@... wrote:
      > >
      > >
      > > We're closer to Jurassic Park. DNA has been found in dinosaur bones!
      > >
      > > In Montana in 2003, while excavating a Tyrannosaurus Rex leg bone from a
      > > precarious cliff, John R. Horner and his team of paleontologists did the
      > > unthinkable. They cut the bone in two. They said they had to cut it in
      > order
      > > to remove it by helicopter.
      > >
      > > When they looked into the core of the bone they found something that was
      > > also unthinkable. They saw what appeared to be remnants of blood and
      > soft
      > > tissue. They sent the find to Dr. Mary Schweitzer of the University of
      > > Montana who was a mainstream, evolution believing scientist who had
      > discovered
      > > blood remnants in dinosaur bones in the past.
      > >
      > > Schweitzer and her team confirmed the finding of soft tissue and blood
      > > remnants in the bone. Being an evolutionist herself she was low key
      > about the
      > > find yet it gained wide publicity even in the mainstream media. On March
      > > 24, 2005, MSNBC aired a documentary about the find and showed Schweitzer
      > > dissolving tissue in EDTA which is a chemical that breaks down the hard
      > calcium
      > > that surrounds the soft tissue. The TV documentary showed, in live
      > action,
      > > the bending and flexing of the soft tissue from the dinosaur bone.
      > >
      > > There was a storm of controversy among old earth evolutionists who
      > > insisted that Schweitzer found nothing more than biofilm left by
      > bacteria.
      > > Scientists know that no soft tissue of any kind could possibly be
      > preserved in a
      > > dinosaur bone for 65 million years. Soft tissue is composed of highly
      > > complex and relatively unstable biopolymers such as proteins that would
      > breakdown
      > > in far less time than even one million years. If it is indeed dinosaur
      > > soft tissue, then science will have to rethink the whole paradigm of the
      > age
      > > of the dinosaurs and by extension, the age of the earth itself!
      > >
      > > Schweitzer defended her work and did even more in-depth chemical
      > analysis
      > > of the contents of the centers of dinosaur bones. According to the
      > article:
      > > "Molecular Analyses of Dinosaur Osteocytes Support the Presence of
      > > Endogenous Molecules" by M. H. Schweitzer et al. Bone, 52 no. 1 (2013):
      > 414-423 as
      > > reported in Perspective, Answers Magazine, April-June 2013, 9-10,
      > > Schweitzer found bone forming cells, called osteocytes, that are found
      > only in bony
      > > creatures and are not from bacteria. This clearly undermines the claim
      > that
      > > the soft tissue is bacterial biofilm.
      > >
      > > Furthermore, she identified several proteins found only in bony
      > creatures
      > > and most importantly, she found DNA. The DNA strands were identified as
      > > that which comes from a vertebrate and hence not bacterial in origin.
      > The
      > > Perspective column in Answers cited above, cites scientific studies that
      > show
      > > that even under laboratory conditions DNA is unstable and breaks down
      > > quickly. One study of dated fossils showed a DNA half life of just 521
      > years. The
      > > presence of dinosaur DNA strongly refutes the bacterial biofilm theory.
      > >
      > > Most dinosaur bones are not really fossilized in the sense of
      > > Petrification. Petrification occurs when silica infiltrates bone and
      > dissolves away the
      > > calcium and replaces it with rock hard silicon. Petrification can happen
      > > quickly and has been seen to happen rapidly in modern times in a
      > situation
      > > of hot volcanic ash. Most of the dinosaur bones you see in museum
      > displays
      > > are not petrified but are composed of the calcium and phosphorous of
      > natural
      > > bone.
      > >
      > > Blood remnants and soft tissue remains have been found in dinosaur bones
      > > of several species. This is inferential proof that dinosaur bones could
      > not
      > > possibly be even one million years old. The young earth creationist
      > > position is that dinosaur carcasses were buried by sediments such as
      > sand, clay
      > > and lime rapidly, soon after death. These vast sedimentary deposits were
      > laid
      > > down by the worldwide flood of Noah's day that killed large numbers of
      > > land creatures. The sediments that buried the dinosaur carcasses
      > hardened into
      > > sandstone and limestone. The biblical flood occurred, according to the
      > > Bible's timeline, less than 5,000 years ago. This is consistent with the
      > > finding of small remnants of blood, soft tissue and DNA in dinosaur
      > bones.
      > >
      > > We have proof of the young age of dinosaurs and this, of course, wildly
      > > throws off the old earth evolutionary timeline. If dinosaurs lived, in
      > large
      > > numbers, as recently as five thousand years ago it gives compelling
      > proof
      > > that dinosaurs and other creatures did not evolve over eons of time.
      > > Dinosaurs, like all creatures, were created by God in fairly recent time.
      > >
      > > A young age of dinosaurs is consistent with a young age of earth but the
      > > young age of earth itself must be established by the many other
      > scientific
      > > avenues of proof. I've written about many young earth proofs in previous
      > DTF
      > > articles. One such proof of young earth is the rapid rate of the decline
      > > of the strength of the earth's magnetic field. The earth's magnetic
      > field
      > > has a half life of about 1400 years. If you extrapolate back just 20,000
      > > years, the earth's magnetic field would have been so strong back then as
      > a
      > > starting point, that the earth's magnetic field would have been as
      > strong as
      > > that of a magnetic star. The high heat of such a strong magnetic field
      > would
      > > have made life impossible. The magnetic field caps earth's age at about
      > > 10,000 years or less.
      > >
      > > The age of earth of less than 10,000 years is fatal to Darwinism which
      > > requires millions of years for life to evolve. Unfortunately, the
      > concept of
      > > young earth is so far outside the mainstream of modern thought that even
      > to
      > > talk about young earth will sometimes alienate your listeners. As the
      > > mounting evidence for young earth piles up I'm confident that eventually
      > the
      > > persistent mindset of old earth uniformitarianism will be reversed both
      > in
      > > academia and among operational geologists.
      > >
      > > The upshot is that the earth itself is evidence of the actions of the
      > > Creator. We must honor the Creator and be prepared to meet Him in the
      > > afterlife. The Bible declares that Jesus of Nazareth is the promised
      > Messiah of
      > > Israel. The fact that Jesus is Messiah is backed up by His fulfillment
      > of over
      > > 300 Old Testament prophecies and by other supernatural, miraculous
      > signs.
      > > Jesus died for our sins, taking upon Himself the penalty we deserved for
      > > our sins. Forgiveness is found only through Christ. Call upon Jesus
      > today to
      > > receive forgiveness of sins.
      > >
      > >
      > >
      > > Steps to salvation:
      > > Jesus said "Ye must be born again." (John 3:7)
      > > 1) Believe that God created you and loves you and sent the Messiah
      > > (Messiah is Hebrew for Christ) to redeem you.
      > > 2) Believe that Jesus the Messiah came in fulfillment of over 300 Bible
      > > prophecies to die for you and take upon Himself the penalty of your
      > sins.
      > > (Isaiah 53:5-6, John 6:29, Romans 4:5, First Peter 3:18)
      > > 3) Turn from sin and call on the name of Jesus to receive forgiveness.
      > > (Romans 10:13)
      > > 4) Receive Jesus as Savior and experience the new birth. (John 1:12,
      > Acts
      > > 2:38)
      > > 5) Follow Him as Lord. (John 14:21)
      > >
      > >
      > > Prayer to receive salvation:
      > > "Whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved" (Romans
      > > 10:13)
      > > To receive the salvation that Jesus purchased for you at the terrible
      > cost
      > > of His suffering and death on your behalf I invite you to pray this
      > simple
      > > prayer: "Dear heavenly Father, I thank you for sending Jesus, the
      > promised
      > > Messiah, to die for my sins. I admit that I am a sinner. I repent of my
      > > sins and I ask for your forgiveness on the basis of the death and
      > > resurrection of Jesus Christ. I ask you to fill me with your Holy Spirit
      > to empower me
      > > to serve you under the Lordship of Jesus Christ, Amen."
      > >
      > >
      > >
      > >
      > >
      > > If you prayed that prayer in the humble sincerity of your heart then you
      > > have received everlasting life, which includes power to live right in
      > this
      > > life and entrance into heaven in the afterlife!
      > >
      > > (C) 2013 William P. Nugent, permission granted to email or republish if
      > > credit given.
      > >
      > >
      > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      > >
      >
      >
      >


      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
    • twotweny
      Hamsters have ever growing bones, too, really? Maybe it s a mammalian attribute... I agree -- I wish there were more responses. You never know what you might
      Message 2 of 6 , May 7, 2013
        Hamsters have ever growing bones, too, really? Maybe it's a mammalian attribute...
        I agree -- I wish there were more responses. You never know what you might find here. I heard about the dino DNA on another christian talk show within the last 2 years, so I was hoping to get more info.
        The same show (the bob dutkow show) also talked about a museum where there were fossilized cowboy hats and teddy bears to show that fossilization does not necessarily have to occur over millions of years.

        But I will check out Vision Forum. Never knew he was involved with an archaology dig. But I also didn't find out til near the end of his life that he was one of the founders of Youth Explosion either, so can't say I'm surprised.

        Thanks Alice.

        --- In apologetics@yahoogroups.com, Alice Robertson <alicerobertson6@...> wrote:
        >
        > Teeth can grow indefinitely? That would make us like hamsters?:) I know
        > hair grows after death, but it's dead protein so that makes sense, but that
        > really surprised me about the teeth? I guess I thought we were born with
        > some sort of teeth pockets formed (but then again when women get their
        > ovaries removed sometimes a baby tooth is found in them, so teeth do form
        > on a baby while in the womb).
        >
        > I thought James Kennedy and Vision Forum were vested in a dinosaur dig, but
        > then James Kennedy took a stroke and I lost track of the story (there was a
        > big issue over who had the rights before Vision Forum came on the scene,
        > but somedays I am clueless about what is true on blogs).
        >
        > It's an interesting thread. I wish more people were involved. God bless,
        > Alice
        >
        >
        > On Wed, May 1, 2013 at 1:43 PM, twotweny <twotweny@...> wrote:
        >
        > > **
        > >
        > >
        > > How Hillarious!
        > >
        > > Why:
        > > 1) Last month I listend to the book "Tyrannosaurus Cayon" on CD. While the
        > > explorers did not find DNA, it was a fictional book about finding a nearly
        > > intect T-rex in New Mexico.
        > >
        > > 2) I saw Jurrasic Park in 3D IMax about a month ago. Save your money --
        > > watch it on cable.
        > >
        > > But back to the point. About 6 or 7 years ago I listened to a D.James
        > > Kenney radio show where he had an guest whose speciality was old bones and
        > > fossils. He was on for two shows talking about how bone grouth, rickets,
        > > malnutrition have accounted for most of the scientific "evidence" for the
        > > "original humans," the "neanderthal/cave" man skeletons that (in quotes
        > > because of the high enought of debate among scientists on this).
        > >
        > > According to this guy, teeth and certain bones in humans can grow
        > > indefinitely. And if one is to the believe the Genesis account of people
        > > living hundreds of years at a time, this "extreme" bone growth would
        > > account for the different form these cave humans had. Also, that some bone
        > > diseases were documented to make modern human bone appear exactly like the
        > > ones many scientists claim came from "pre humuans." So, these weren't a
        > > different subset or progenitor to humans, they were just really old humans,
        > > of which some had bone diseases.
        > >
        > > Did any of you hear this show? Because I can not remember this guy's name,
        > > or the dates of the show, just that it was one the radio show D. James
        > > Kennedy (Truths That Transform?) used to do before he died. I wanted to get
        > > the podcast of the broadcast, but could never get the right dates.
        > > But I believe it was around Mid August 2006.
        > >
        > >
        > > --- In apologetics@yahoogroups.com, B1E1Nugent@ wrote:
        > > >
        > > >
        > > > We're closer to Jurassic Park. DNA has been found in dinosaur bones!
        > > >
        > > > In Montana in 2003, while excavating a Tyrannosaurus Rex leg bone from a
        > > > precarious cliff, John R. Horner and his team of paleontologists did the
        > > > unthinkable. They cut the bone in two. They said they had to cut it in
        > > order
        > > > to remove it by helicopter.
        > > >
        > > > When they looked into the core of the bone they found something that was
        > > > also unthinkable. They saw what appeared to be remnants of blood and
        > > soft
        > > > tissue. They sent the find to Dr. Mary Schweitzer of the University of
        > > > Montana who was a mainstream, evolution believing scientist who had
        > > discovered
        > > > blood remnants in dinosaur bones in the past.
        > > >
        > > > Schweitzer and her team confirmed the finding of soft tissue and blood
        > > > remnants in the bone. Being an evolutionist herself she was low key
        > > about the
        > > > find yet it gained wide publicity even in the mainstream media. On March
        > > > 24, 2005, MSNBC aired a documentary about the find and showed Schweitzer
        > > > dissolving tissue in EDTA which is a chemical that breaks down the hard
        > > calcium
        > > > that surrounds the soft tissue. The TV documentary showed, in live
        > > action,
        > > > the bending and flexing of the soft tissue from the dinosaur bone.
        > > >
        > > > There was a storm of controversy among old earth evolutionists who
        > > > insisted that Schweitzer found nothing more than biofilm left by
        > > bacteria.
        > > > Scientists know that no soft tissue of any kind could possibly be
        > > preserved in a
        > > > dinosaur bone for 65 million years. Soft tissue is composed of highly
        > > > complex and relatively unstable biopolymers such as proteins that would
        > > breakdown
        > > > in far less time than even one million years. If it is indeed dinosaur
        > > > soft tissue, then science will have to rethink the whole paradigm of the
        > > age
        > > > of the dinosaurs and by extension, the age of the earth itself!
        > > >
        > > > Schweitzer defended her work and did even more in-depth chemical
        > > analysis
        > > > of the contents of the centers of dinosaur bones. According to the
        > > article:
        > > > "Molecular Analyses of Dinosaur Osteocytes Support the Presence of
        > > > Endogenous Molecules" by M. H. Schweitzer et al. Bone, 52 no. 1 (2013):
        > > 414-423 as
        > > > reported in Perspective, Answers Magazine, April-June 2013, 9-10,
        > > > Schweitzer found bone forming cells, called osteocytes, that are found
        > > only in bony
        > > > creatures and are not from bacteria. This clearly undermines the claim
        > > that
        > > > the soft tissue is bacterial biofilm.
        > > >
        > > > Furthermore, she identified several proteins found only in bony
        > > creatures
        > > > and most importantly, she found DNA. The DNA strands were identified as
        > > > that which comes from a vertebrate and hence not bacterial in origin.
        > > The
        > > > Perspective column in Answers cited above, cites scientific studies that
        > > show
        > > > that even under laboratory conditions DNA is unstable and breaks down
        > > > quickly. One study of dated fossils showed a DNA half life of just 521
        > > years. The
        > > > presence of dinosaur DNA strongly refutes the bacterial biofilm theory.
        > > >
        > > > Most dinosaur bones are not really fossilized in the sense of
        > > > Petrification. Petrification occurs when silica infiltrates bone and
        > > dissolves away the
        > > > calcium and replaces it with rock hard silicon. Petrification can happen
        > > > quickly and has been seen to happen rapidly in modern times in a
        > > situation
        > > > of hot volcanic ash. Most of the dinosaur bones you see in museum
        > > displays
        > > > are not petrified but are composed of the calcium and phosphorous of
        > > natural
        > > > bone.
        > > >
        > > > Blood remnants and soft tissue remains have been found in dinosaur bones
        > > > of several species. This is inferential proof that dinosaur bones could
        > > not
        > > > possibly be even one million years old. The young earth creationist
        > > > position is that dinosaur carcasses were buried by sediments such as
        > > sand, clay
        > > > and lime rapidly, soon after death. These vast sedimentary deposits were
        > > laid
        > > > down by the worldwide flood of Noah's day that killed large numbers of
        > > > land creatures. The sediments that buried the dinosaur carcasses
        > > hardened into
        > > > sandstone and limestone. The biblical flood occurred, according to the
        > > > Bible's timeline, less than 5,000 years ago. This is consistent with the
        > > > finding of small remnants of blood, soft tissue and DNA in dinosaur
        > > bones.
        > > >
        > > > We have proof of the young age of dinosaurs and this, of course, wildly
        > > > throws off the old earth evolutionary timeline. If dinosaurs lived, in
        > > large
        > > > numbers, as recently as five thousand years ago it gives compelling
        > > proof
        > > > that dinosaurs and other creatures did not evolve over eons of time.
        > > > Dinosaurs, like all creatures, were created by God in fairly recent time.
        > > >
        > > > A young age of dinosaurs is consistent with a young age of earth but the
        > > > young age of earth itself must be established by the many other
        > > scientific
        > > > avenues of proof. I've written about many young earth proofs in previous
        > > DTF
        > > > articles. One such proof of young earth is the rapid rate of the decline
        > > > of the strength of the earth's magnetic field. The earth's magnetic
        > > field
        > > > has a half life of about 1400 years. If you extrapolate back just 20,000
        > > > years, the earth's magnetic field would have been so strong back then as
        > > a
        > > > starting point, that the earth's magnetic field would have been as
        > > strong as
        > > > that of a magnetic star. The high heat of such a strong magnetic field
        > > would
        > > > have made life impossible. The magnetic field caps earth's age at about
        > > > 10,000 years or less.
        > > >
        > > > The age of earth of less than 10,000 years is fatal to Darwinism which
        > > > requires millions of years for life to evolve. Unfortunately, the
        > > concept of
        > > > young earth is so far outside the mainstream of modern thought that even
        > > to
        > > > talk about young earth will sometimes alienate your listeners. As the
        > > > mounting evidence for young earth piles up I'm confident that eventually
        > > the
        > > > persistent mindset of old earth uniformitarianism will be reversed both
        > > in
        > > > academia and among operational geologists.
        > > >
        > > > The upshot is that the earth itself is evidence of the actions of the
        > > > Creator. We must honor the Creator and be prepared to meet Him in the
        > > > afterlife. The Bible declares that Jesus of Nazareth is the promised
        > > Messiah of
        > > > Israel. The fact that Jesus is Messiah is backed up by His fulfillment
        > > of over
        > > > 300 Old Testament prophecies and by other supernatural, miraculous
        > > signs.
        > > > Jesus died for our sins, taking upon Himself the penalty we deserved for
        > > > our sins. Forgiveness is found only through Christ. Call upon Jesus
        > > today to
        > > > receive forgiveness of sins.
        > > >
        > > >
        > > >
        > > > Steps to salvation:
        > > > Jesus said "Ye must be born again." (John 3:7)
        > > > 1) Believe that God created you and loves you and sent the Messiah
        > > > (Messiah is Hebrew for Christ) to redeem you.
        > > > 2) Believe that Jesus the Messiah came in fulfillment of over 300 Bible
        > > > prophecies to die for you and take upon Himself the penalty of your
        > > sins.
        > > > (Isaiah 53:5-6, John 6:29, Romans 4:5, First Peter 3:18)
        > > > 3) Turn from sin and call on the name of Jesus to receive forgiveness.
        > > > (Romans 10:13)
        > > > 4) Receive Jesus as Savior and experience the new birth. (John 1:12,
        > > Acts
        > > > 2:38)
        > > > 5) Follow Him as Lord. (John 14:21)
        > > >
        > > >
        > > > Prayer to receive salvation:
        > > > "Whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved" (Romans
        > > > 10:13)
        > > > To receive the salvation that Jesus purchased for you at the terrible
        > > cost
        > > > of His suffering and death on your behalf I invite you to pray this
        > > simple
        > > > prayer: "Dear heavenly Father, I thank you for sending Jesus, the
        > > promised
        > > > Messiah, to die for my sins. I admit that I am a sinner. I repent of my
        > > > sins and I ask for your forgiveness on the basis of the death and
        > > > resurrection of Jesus Christ. I ask you to fill me with your Holy Spirit
        > > to empower me
        > > > to serve you under the Lordship of Jesus Christ, Amen."
        > > >
        > > >
        > > >
        > > >
        > > >
        > > > If you prayed that prayer in the humble sincerity of your heart then you
        > > > have received everlasting life, which includes power to live right in
        > > this
        > > > life and entrance into heaven in the afterlife!
        > > >
        > > > (C) 2013 William P. Nugent, permission granted to email or republish if
        > > > credit given.
        > > >
        > > >
        > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        > > >
        > >
        > >
        > >
        >
        >
        > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        >
      Your message has been successfully submitted and would be delivered to recipients shortly.