Loading ...
Sorry, an error occurred while loading the content.

My intro and first question

Expand Messages
  • Bud Polk
    Dear friends, I am new to the group. I am of a different faith tradition. 2011 is the year I immerse myself in the study of Christianity, attendance at
    Message 1 of 10 , Mar 6, 2011
    • 0 Attachment
      Dear friends,

      I am new to the group. I am of a different faith tradition. 2011 is the year
      I immerse myself in the study of Christianity, attendance at Christian
      places of worship and friendship with Christians. 2010 was my year of
      immersive study of Islam and friendship with Muslims.

      I have a brand new study Bible. It is the "New Interpreter's Study Bible," a
      New Revised Standard Version of the Bible. It is chock full of commentary
      and scholarly articles and footnotes. It is over 2,000 page long. Genesis
      starts with the first five verses, for example, and the rest of the page and
      all the facing page is commentary. It is not a Bible of any particular sect
      or denomination of Christianity.

      I am starting a highly interactive, three month course online called
      "Christianity for Deepening and Dialogue" on April 15. I got the new Bible
      yesterday and sat down with Matthew, and began to read my way through all
      four Gospels along with the commentary and articles. I also intend to read
      Acts and a few of the major letters of Paul before the course begins.

      I have also discovered an online website to take fairly intense courses on
      Christianity and the Bible. It is slightly to the right of center in terms
      of theology, which is perfect for me, because I want to learn more about the
      more traditional view of Christianity. I have started a course on the
      Gospels and I am really enjoying it.

      I have a question and a comment about Matt 5:22. My NRSV reads : "But I say
      to you if you angry with a brother or sister, you will be liable to
      judgment; but is you insult a brother or sister, you are subject to council;
      and if you say, 'You fool,' you are liable to the hell of fire." The KJV
      uses the word "Raca" in addition to fool. What does Raca mean?

      My comment is that many Christians I have encountered who engage in politics
      and conservative social issues seem to be very angry, confrontational and
      insulting. Is Matt 5:22 not given emphasis as the a tool for discourse in
      many churches?

      Best regards,
      Rothwell Polk


      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
    • Mark
      Hi Bud, Raca is an Aramaic term of contempt, like empty, distaste. Yes, I have heard the message of that scripture many times. So it is something, as with all
      Message 2 of 10 , Mar 6, 2011
      • 0 Attachment
        Hi Bud,

        Raca is an Aramaic term of contempt, like empty, distaste.
        Yes, I have heard the message of that scripture many times. So it is something, as with all scripture, that should be taken to heart.

        Today I heard a preacher talking about the resurrection of Jesus say, "The tomb of Buddha is occupied, the tomb of Mohamed is occupied, but the tomb of Jesus Christ is empty". He was making the point of this being the most defining and indisputable fact of Jesus being God in the flesh. You can hear the entire message here if you like: http://www.leadingtheway.org/site/PageServer?pagename=watch_default
      • geoff Smith
        May I suggest that you also get an New American Standard Bible (NASB) as well. The reason I suggest this is because the 1611 KJV bible is four hundred years
        Message 3 of 10 , Mar 7, 2011
        • 0 Attachment
          May I suggest that you also get an New American Standard Bible (NASB) as well. The reason I suggest this is because the 1611 KJV bible is four hundred years old and is written in the style of the speech of the day and to make things even more difficult, was written by Scottish translaters, who used words from the Scottish English language, which means they used words slightly different from the English of the day.

          Raca is a beatiful example of what I mean. The KJV, ASV and the NIV all use this word. The NASB however, uses the term, 'you good for nothing'.

          [22] But I say unto you, That whosoever is angry with his brother without a cause shall be in danger of the judgment: and whosoever shall say to his brother, Raca, shall be in danger of the council: but whosoever shall say, Thou fool, shall be in danger of hell fire.
          (KJV)

          22 But I tell you that anyone who is angry with his brother will be subject to judgment. Again, anyone who says to his brother, 'Raca,' is answerable to the Sanhedrin. But anyone who says, 'You fool!' will be in danger of the fire of hell.
          (NIV)

          22"But I say to you that everyone who is angry with his brother shall be guilty before the court; and whoever says to his brother, 'You good-for-nothing,' shall be guilty before the supreme court; and whoever says, 'You fool,' shall be guilty enough to go into the fiery hell.
          (NASB)

          There are always two or three ways of looking at any one verse; Firstly to look at it as a stand alone verse and secondly, to look at a verse in the context of the paragraph in which a verse is used, or even a whole chapter. This may give you a better understanding of a verse and what it means.

          I hope this and other emails will give you some guidance.

          Good luck with your studies. Incidentally, I agree with the preacher you quoted. Jesus' tomb is empty. He rose from the dead on the third day and ascended into heaven forty days later, to sit at the right hand of our Father in heaven. That is what the bible tells and teaches us.

          References:
          Matthew 5:22 : Deut 16:18; 2 Chr 19:5

          Matthew 5:22 : Matt 10:17; 26:59; Mark 13:9; 14:55; 15:1; Luke 22:66; John 11:47; Acts 4:15; 5:21; 6:12; 22:30; 23:1; 24:20

          Matthew 5:22 : Matt 5:29; 10:28; 18:9; 23:15, 33; Mark 9:43-ff; Luke 12:5; James 3:6

          Yours in Christ,

          Geoff

          ----- Original Message -----
          From: Bud Polk
          To: apologetics@yahoogroups.com
          Sent: Sunday, March 06, 2011 10:21 PM
          Subject: [apologetics and theology] My intro and first question



          Dear friends,

          I am new to the group. I am of a different faith tradition. 2011 is the year
          I immerse myself in the study of Christianity, attendance at Christian
          places of worship and friendship with Christians. 2010 was my year of
          immersive study of Islam and friendship with Muslims.

          I have a brand new study Bible. It is the "New Interpreter's Study Bible," a
          New Revised Standard Version of the Bible. It is chock full of commentary
          and scholarly articles and footnotes. It is over 2,000 page long. Genesis
          starts with the first five verses, for example, and the rest of the page and
          all the facing page is commentary. It is not a Bible of any particular sect
          or denomination of Christianity.

          I am starting a highly interactive, three month course online called
          "Christianity for Deepening and Dialogue" on April 15. I got the new Bible
          yesterday and sat down with Matthew, and began to read my way through all
          four Gospels along with the commentary and articles. I also intend to read
          Acts and a few of the major letters of Paul before the course begins.

          I have also discovered an online website to take fairly intense courses on
          Christianity and the Bible. It is slightly to the right of center in terms
          of theology, which is perfect for me, because I want to learn more about the
          more traditional view of Christianity. I have started a course on the
          Gospels and I am really enjoying it.

          I have a question and a comment about Matt 5:22. My NRSV reads : "But I say
          to you if you angry with a brother or sister, you will be liable to
          judgment; but is you insult a brother or sister, you are subject to council;
          and if you say, 'You fool,' you are liable to the hell of fire." The KJV
          uses the word "Raca" in addition to fool. What does Raca mean?

          My comment is that many Christians I have encountered who engage in politics
          and conservative social issues seem to be very angry, confrontational and
          insulting. Is Matt 5:22 not given emphasis as the a tool for discourse in
          many churches?

          Best regards,
          Rothwell Polk

          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]




          ------------------------------------------------------------------------------

          No virus found in this message.
          Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
          Version: 10.0.1204 / Virus Database: 1435/3486 - Release Date: 03/06/11


          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        • Russell Atherton
          Hello Rothwell, Previous responses have addressed varying aspects of your post, but I would like to comment on your comment that many Christians you have
          Message 4 of 10 , Mar 7, 2011
          • 0 Attachment
            Hello Rothwell,

            Previous responses have addressed varying aspects of your post, but I would
            like to comment on your comment that many Christians you have encountered
            engage in politics and conservative social issues seem to be very angry,
            confrontational and insulting.

            I have been in ministry for 15 years in a variety of settings/positions,
            including 5 years working with Christians in Africa, 3 years with a Christan
            school operated by 11 different denominations and ministry organizations,
            and have lived many years in the U.S. in AND out of the so-called "Bible
            Belt". I rarely have personally encountered Christians who are "very angry,
            confrontational and insulting". If forced to quantify "rarely", I would set
            2% as a conservative estimate. Yet the percentage of "very angry,
            confrontational and insulting" Christians I see on the news, television
            shows, and movies is closer to 85-90%.

            I cannot speak with knowledge and experience about other faiths such as
            Islam which you have just intensely studied for a year, but I can speak with
            knowledge and experience about Christianity. Having made that preface, and
            with all sincerity and sadness, I acknowledge that a small, vocal percentage
            of Christians are addressing social and political issues in a spirit that is
            not Christ-like. However, that is neither the majority stance among
            Christians, nor the stance which the Bible advocates. And frankly, if
            indeed you have personally encountered many Christians with such an
            attitude, I strongly recommend that you circulate among a different group of
            Christians.

            Lastly, specifically regarding Matthew 5:22, I also have heard it preached
            and taught many times throughout my 40 years of being a Christ-follower. As
            you deeply explore the Scriptures over this next year you will discover many
            verses which are of same mind as Matthew 5:22. Please feel free to calmly
            point out Christ's words in Matthew 5:22 to Christians who speak and act in
            betrayal to it as you personally encounter them.

            Peace,
            - russell


            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          • Bud Polk
            Dear Russell, Thank you for your illuminating reply. This is why I mentioned Stendahl s rules of religious understanding in my first post, and why I am
            Message 5 of 10 , Mar 7, 2011
            • 0 Attachment
              Dear Russell,

              Thank you for your illuminating reply. This is why I mentioned Stendahl's
              rules of religious understanding in my first post, and why I am following
              rule one, "ask an adherent." I came here for good, Godly fellowship and
              understanding.

              My contact with Christians and my dialogue has been either cable TV or
              Internet, and, as you point out, they are a very angry and very visible
              element. I am delighted to know that I have a false impression based on
              media experiences rather than my feet on the ground.

              Last year, I would respond to hateful and inaccurate remarks about Islam on
              Internet sites of newspapers, which I am not looking to discuss here, and
              someone would quote a Bible verse or two and then revile me personally in
              the most foul and ugly terms. But already from the three replies to my
              initial post, I am convinced I have found the right email list.

              As part of my total immersion in Islam last year, I regularly attended a
              mosque. I am looking for a traditional church near my home by reading their
              Internet websites and by asking around. I am looking for a moderate
              church--not too conservative, not too liberal.

              I want to take a Bible study class, attend worship services, attend social
              functions and befriend Christians. It is only through immersive contacts
              with believers and their worship that I come to know a faith.

              I want to say that I do not regard Christianity and Christians as academic
              subjects to be studied. My faith tradition regards Jesus as divine and the
              Bible as scripture. I am exploring my spiritual roots. And I do mind
              attempts to convert me. They stretch me intellectually and spiritually.

              I continue reading the Gospel of Matthew this morning.

              Yours in fellowship,
              Rothwell

              On Mon, Mar 7, 2011 at 7:29 AM, Russell Atherton
              <r.a.philologus@...>wrote:

              >
              >
              > Hello Rothwell,
              >
              > Previous responses have addressed varying aspects of your post, but I would
              > like to comment on your comment that many Christians you have encountered
              >
              > engage in politics and conservative social issues seem to be very angry,
              > confrontational and insulting.
              >
              > I have been in ministry for 15 years in a variety of settings/positions,
              > including 5 years working with Christians in Africa, 3 years with a
              > Christan
              > school operated by 11 different denominations and ministry organizations,
              > and have lived many years in the U.S. in AND out of the so-called "Bible
              > Belt". I rarely have personally encountered Christians who are "very angry,
              > confrontational and insulting". If forced to quantify "rarely", I would set
              > 2% as a conservative estimate. Yet the percentage of "very angry,
              > confrontational and insulting" Christians I see on the news, television
              > shows, and movies is closer to 85-90%.
              >
              > I cannot speak with knowledge and experience about other faiths such as
              > Islam which you have just intensely studied for a year, but I can speak
              > with
              > knowledge and experience about Christianity. Having made that preface, and
              > with all sincerity and sadness, I acknowledge that a small, vocal
              > percentage
              > of Christians are addressing social and political issues in a spirit that
              > is
              > not Christ-like. However, that is neither the majority stance among
              > Christians, nor the stance which the Bible advocates. And frankly, if
              > indeed you have personally encountered many Christians with such an
              > attitude, I strongly recommend that you circulate among a different group
              > of
              > Christians.
              >
              > Lastly, specifically regarding Matthew 5:22, I also have heard it preached
              > and taught many times throughout my 40 years of being a Christ-follower. As
              > you deeply explore the Scriptures over this next year you will discover
              > many
              > verses which are of same mind as Matthew 5:22. Please feel free to calmly
              > point out Christ's words in Matthew 5:22 to Christians who speak and act in
              > betrayal to it as you personally encounter them.
              >
              > Peace,
              > - russell
              >


              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
            • Bud Polk
              ... Dear Mark, Thank you for your reply. I listened to the sermon. Youssef is a powerful preacher. Yours in fellowship, Rothwell [Non-text portions of this
              Message 6 of 10 , Mar 7, 2011
              • 0 Attachment
                On Sun, Mar 6, 2011 at 9:12 PM, Mark <mjefferson96@...> wrote:

                >
                >
                > Hi Bud,
                >
                > Raca is an Aramaic term of contempt, like empty, distaste.
                > Yes, I have heard the message of that scripture many times. So it is
                > something, as with all scripture, that should be taken to heart.
                >
                > Today I heard a preacher talking about the resurrection of Jesus say, "The
                > tomb of Buddha is occupied, the tomb of Mohamed is occupied, but the tomb of
                > Jesus Christ is empty". He was making the point of this being the most
                > defining and indisputable fact of Jesus being God in the flesh. You can hear
                > the entire message here if you like:
                > http://www.leadingtheway.org/site/PageServer?pagename=watch_default
                >
                Dear Mark,

                Thank you for your reply. I listened to the sermon. Youssef is a powerful
                preacher.

                Yours in fellowship,
                Rothwell


                [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
              • Bud Polk
                Dear Geoff, Thank you for your reply. I have a NSRV version of the Bible (and an NJV for the poetry and majesty) which work just fine for me right now. I like
                Message 7 of 10 , Mar 7, 2011
                • 0 Attachment
                  Dear Geoff,

                  Thank you for your reply. I have a NSRV version of the Bible (and an NJV for
                  the poetry and majesty) which work just fine for me right now. I like the
                  NASB translation of Raca, however, maybe I will see how cheaply I can get an
                  NASB.

                  I read the verses you cited. Thank you.

                  Yours in fellowship,
                  Rothwell

                  On Mon, Mar 7, 2011 at 2:47 AM, geoff Smith <gc.smith@...>wrote:

                  >
                  >
                  > May I suggest that you also get an New American Standard Bible (NASB) as
                  > well. The reason I suggest this is because the 1611 KJV bible is four
                  > hundred years old and is written in the style of the speech of the day and
                  > to make things even more difficult, was written by Scottish translaters, who
                  > used words from the Scottish English language, which means they used words
                  > slightly different from the English of the day.
                  >
                  > Raca is a beatiful example of what I mean. The KJV, ASV and the NIV all use
                  > this word. The NASB however, uses the term, 'you good for nothing'.
                  >
                  > [22] But I say unto you, That whosoever is angry with his brother without a
                  > cause shall be in danger of the judgment: and whosoever shall say to his
                  > brother, Raca, shall be in danger of the council: but whosoever shall say,
                  > Thou fool, shall be in danger of hell fire.
                  > (KJV)
                  >
                  > 22 But I tell you that anyone who is angry with his brother will be subject
                  > to judgment. Again, anyone who says to his brother, 'Raca,' is answerable to
                  > the Sanhedrin. But anyone who says, 'You fool!' will be in danger of the
                  > fire of hell.
                  > (NIV)
                  >
                  > 22"But I say to you that everyone who is angry with his brother shall be
                  > guilty before the court; and whoever says to his brother, 'You
                  > good-for-nothing,' shall be guilty before the supreme court; and whoever
                  > says, 'You fool,' shall be guilty enough to go into the fiery hell.
                  > (NASB)
                  >
                  > There are always two or three ways of looking at any one verse; Firstly to
                  > look at it as a stand alone verse and secondly, to look at a verse in the
                  > context of the paragraph in which a verse is used, or even a whole chapter.
                  > This may give you a better understanding of a verse and what it means.
                  >
                  > I hope this and other emails will give you some guidance.
                  >
                  > Good luck with your studies. Incidentally, I agree with the preacher you
                  > quoted. Jesus' tomb is empty. He rose from the dead on the third day and
                  > ascended into heaven forty days later, to sit at the right hand of our
                  > Father in heaven. That is what the bible tells and teaches us.
                  >
                  > References:
                  > Matthew 5:22 : Deut 16:18; 2 Chr 19:5
                  >
                  > Matthew 5:22 : Matt 10:17; 26:59; Mark 13:9; 14:55; 15:1; Luke 22:66; John
                  > 11:47; Acts 4:15; 5:21; 6:12; 22:30; 23:1; 24:20
                  >
                  > Matthew 5:22 : Matt 5:29; 10:28; 18:9; 23:15, 33; Mark 9:43-ff; Luke 12:5;
                  > James 3:6
                  >
                  > Yours in Christ,
                  >
                  > Geoff
                  >
                  >
                  > ----- Original Message -----
                  > From: Bud Polk
                  > To: apologetics@yahoogroups.com
                  > Sent: Sunday, March 06, 2011 10:21 PM
                  > Subject: [apologetics and theology] My intro and first question
                  >
                  > Dear friends,
                  >
                  > I am new to the group. I am of a different faith tradition. 2011 is the
                  > year
                  > I immerse myself in the study of Christianity, attendance at Christian
                  > places of worship and friendship with Christians. 2010 was my year of
                  > immersive study of Islam and friendship with Muslims.
                  >
                  > I have a brand new study Bible. It is the "New Interpreter's Study Bible,"
                  > a
                  > New Revised Standard Version of the Bible. It is chock full of commentary
                  > and scholarly articles and footnotes. It is over 2,000 page long. Genesis
                  > starts with the first five verses, for example, and the rest of the page
                  > and
                  > all the facing page is commentary. It is not a Bible of any particular sect
                  > or denomination of Christianity.
                  >
                  > I am starting a highly interactive, three month course online called
                  > "Christianity for Deepening and Dialogue" on April 15. I got the new Bible
                  > yesterday and sat down with Matthew, and began to read my way through all
                  > four Gospels along with the commentary and articles. I also intend to read
                  > Acts and a few of the major letters of Paul before the course begins.
                  >
                  > I have also discovered an online website to take fairly intense courses on
                  > Christianity and the Bible. It is slightly to the right of center in terms
                  > of theology, which is perfect for me, because I want to learn more about
                  > the
                  > more traditional view of Christianity. I have started a course on the
                  > Gospels and I am really enjoying it.
                  >
                  > I have a question and a comment about Matt 5:22. My NRSV reads : "But I say
                  > to you if you angry with a brother or sister, you will be liable to
                  > judgment; but is you insult a brother or sister, you are subject to
                  > council;
                  > and if you say, 'You fool,' you are liable to the hell of fire." The KJV
                  > uses the word "Raca" in addition to fool. What does Raca mean?
                  >
                  > My comment is that many Christians I have encountered who engage in
                  > politics
                  > and conservative social issues seem to be very angry, confrontational and
                  > insulting. Is Matt 5:22 not given emphasis as the a tool for discourse in
                  > many churches?
                  >
                  > Best regards,
                  > Rothwell Polk
                  >
                  > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                  >
                  > ----------------------------------------------------------
                  >
                  > No virus found in this message.
                  > Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
                  > Version: 10.0.1204 / Virus Database: 1435/3486 - Release Date: 03/06/11
                  >
                  > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                  >
                  >
                  >



                  --
                  "Humor, happiness, joy are characteristics of a true Bah�'� life."


                  [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                • geoff Smith
                  Hello Bud, If you are using a NRSV Study Bible, doe it not give you any references? I would have thought so. Another useful book to have on your shelves is:
                  Message 8 of 10 , Mar 8, 2011
                  • 0 Attachment
                    Hello Bud,

                    If you are using a NRSV Study Bible, doe it not give you any references? I
                    would have thought so.

                    Another useful book to have on your shelves is:

                    Basic Theology
                    Charles Ryrie
                    It will give you some very basic, clear, easy to read and sound biblical
                    theology.

                    Once you have sincerely committed yourself to Christ, you won't need to look
                    elsewhere at other religions, as Christ himself through the Holy Spirit will
                    guide you in deepening your own self-knowledge, and knowledge in Jesus
                    Christ as your personal friend and saviour.

                    We are all sinners and not one of us is righteous Rom. 3:11-12. So what is
                    the remedy? Jesus Christ and the Grace with which he cleanses us with his
                    blood at the unrighteous trial and on the cross. We all need to come to
                    repentance of our sins and receive his forgiveness and grace Rom. 3:23-24;
                    Rom 4:4, 16; Eph 2:8.

                    I'll pray that you will find the truth you are looking for in Christ Jesus
                    our Lord and friend.

                    Yours in Christ,

                    Geoff
                    ----- Original Message -----
                    From: "Bud Polk" <budpolk@...>
                    To: <apologetics@yahoogroups.com>
                    Cc: "geoff Smith" <gc.smith@...>
                    Sent: Monday, March 07, 2011 6:22 PM
                    Subject: Re: [apologetics and theology] My intro and first question


                    Dear Geoff,

                    Thank you for your reply. I have a NSRV version of the Bible (and an NJV for
                    the poetry and majesty) which work just fine for me right now. I like the
                    NASB translation of Raca, however, maybe I will see how cheaply I can get an
                    NASB.

                    I read the verses you cited. Thank you.

                    Yours in fellowship,
                    Rothwell

                    On Mon, Mar 7, 2011 at 2:47 AM, geoff Smith
                    <gc.smith@...>wrote:

                    >
                    >
                    > May I suggest that you also get an New American Standard Bible (NASB) as
                    > well. The reason I suggest this is because the 1611 KJV bible is four
                    > hundred years old and is written in the style of the speech of the day and
                    > to make things even more difficult, was written by Scottish translaters,
                    > who
                    > used words from the Scottish English language, which means they used words
                    > slightly different from the English of the day.
                    >
                    > Raca is a beatiful example of what I mean. The KJV, ASV and the NIV all
                    > use
                    > this word. The NASB however, uses the term, 'you good for nothing'.
                    >
                    > [22] But I say unto you, That whosoever is angry with his brother without
                    > a
                    > cause shall be in danger of the judgment: and whosoever shall say to his
                    > brother, Raca, shall be in danger of the council: but whosoever shall say,
                    > Thou fool, shall be in danger of hell fire.
                    > (KJV)
                    >
                    > 22 But I tell you that anyone who is angry with his brother will be
                    > subject
                    > to judgment. Again, anyone who says to his brother, 'Raca,' is answerable
                    > to
                    > the Sanhedrin. But anyone who says, 'You fool!' will be in danger of the
                    > fire of hell.
                    > (NIV)
                    >
                    > 22"But I say to you that everyone who is angry with his brother shall be
                    > guilty before the court; and whoever says to his brother, 'You
                    > good-for-nothing,' shall be guilty before the supreme court; and whoever
                    > says, 'You fool,' shall be guilty enough to go into the fiery hell.
                    > (NASB)
                    >
                    > There are always two or three ways of looking at any one verse; Firstly to
                    > look at it as a stand alone verse and secondly, to look at a verse in the
                    > context of the paragraph in which a verse is used, or even a whole
                    > chapter.
                    > This may give you a better understanding of a verse and what it means.
                    >
                    > I hope this and other emails will give you some guidance.
                    >
                    > Good luck with your studies. Incidentally, I agree with the preacher you
                    > quoted. Jesus' tomb is empty. He rose from the dead on the third day and
                    > ascended into heaven forty days later, to sit at the right hand of our
                    > Father in heaven. That is what the bible tells and teaches us.
                    >
                    > References:
                    > Matthew 5:22 : Deut 16:18; 2 Chr 19:5
                    >
                    > Matthew 5:22 : Matt 10:17; 26:59; Mark 13:9; 14:55; 15:1; Luke 22:66; John
                    > 11:47; Acts 4:15; 5:21; 6:12; 22:30; 23:1; 24:20
                    >
                    > Matthew 5:22 : Matt 5:29; 10:28; 18:9; 23:15, 33; Mark 9:43-ff; Luke 12:5;
                    > James 3:6
                    >
                    > Yours in Christ,
                    >
                    > Geoff
                    >
                    >
                    > ----- Original Message -----
                    > From: Bud Polk
                    > To: apologetics@yahoogroups.com
                    > Sent: Sunday, March 06, 2011 10:21 PM
                    > Subject: [apologetics and theology] My intro and first question
                    >
                    > Dear friends,
                    >
                    > I am new to the group. I am of a different faith tradition. 2011 is the
                    > year
                    > I immerse myself in the study of Christianity, attendance at Christian
                    > places of worship and friendship with Christians. 2010 was my year of
                    > immersive study of Islam and friendship with Muslims.
                    >
                    > I have a brand new study Bible. It is the "New Interpreter's Study Bible,"
                    > a
                    > New Revised Standard Version of the Bible. It is chock full of commentary
                    > and scholarly articles and footnotes. It is over 2,000 page long. Genesis
                    > starts with the first five verses, for example, and the rest of the page
                    > and
                    > all the facing page is commentary. It is not a Bible of any particular
                    > sect
                    > or denomination of Christianity.
                    >
                    > I am starting a highly interactive, three month course online called
                    > "Christianity for Deepening and Dialogue" on April 15. I got the new Bible
                    > yesterday and sat down with Matthew, and began to read my way through all
                    > four Gospels along with the commentary and articles. I also intend to read
                    > Acts and a few of the major letters of Paul before the course begins.
                    >
                    > I have also discovered an online website to take fairly intense courses on
                    > Christianity and the Bible. It is slightly to the right of center in terms
                    > of theology, which is perfect for me, because I want to learn more about
                    > the
                    > more traditional view of Christianity. I have started a course on the
                    > Gospels and I am really enjoying it.
                    >
                    > I have a question and a comment about Matt 5:22. My NRSV reads : "But I
                    > say
                    > to you if you angry with a brother or sister, you will be liable to
                    > judgment; but is you insult a brother or sister, you are subject to
                    > council;
                    > and if you say, 'You fool,' you are liable to the hell of fire." The KJV
                    > uses the word "Raca" in addition to fool. What does Raca mean?
                    >
                    > My comment is that many Christians I have encountered who engage in
                    > politics
                    > and conservative social issues seem to be very angry, confrontational and
                    > insulting. Is Matt 5:22 not given emphasis as the a tool for discourse in
                    > many churches?
                    >
                    > Best regards,
                    > Rothwell Polk
                    >
                    > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                    >
                    > ----------------------------------------------------------
                    >
                    > No virus found in this message.
                    > Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
                    > Version: 10.0.1204 / Virus Database: 1435/3486 - Release Date: 03/06/11
                    >
                    > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                    >
                    >
                    >



                    --
                    "Humor, happiness, joy are characteristics of a true Bahá'í life."


                    [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



                    ------------------------------------

                    Brought to you by Theologically Correct dot Com Ministries.
                    http://theologicallycorrect.com
                    1 Peter 3:15, Jude 3 - Resources for Christian Living for the Whole Life of
                    the BelieverYahoo! Groups Links





                    -----
                    No virus found in this message.
                    Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
                    Version: 10.0.1204 / Virus Database: 1435/3488 - Release Date: 03/07/11
                  • Don Young
                    Dear Bud, Welcome to the group.  I hope it will be both informative and a blessing to you.  Please permit me to share something with you that was shared with
                    Message 9 of 10 , Mar 9, 2011
                    • 0 Attachment
                      Dear Bud,

                      Welcome to the group.  I hope it will be both informative and a blessing to
                      you.  Please permit me to share something with you that was shared with me that
                      I've found very beneficial.

                      There are many fascinating scholarly and socially and academically stimulating
                      areas of study within Christianity.  But it's very possible for one to be
                      "always learning and never able to come to the knowledge of the truth" (2
                      Timothy 3:7).  What truth?

                      John 14:6 -- "Jesus said to him, "I am the way, the truth, and the life.  No one
                      comes to the Father except through me."

                      The Bible and the Christian life are all about Jesus Christ.  With Him, there is
                      Life; without Him, there isn't.  He said, "I have come that they may have life,
                      and that they may have it more abundantly" (John 10:10).  And his disciple,
                      John, attested to this:

                      1 John 5:11 -- He who has the Son has life; he who does not have the Son of God
                      does not have life. 


                      Now God "desires all men to be saved and to come to the knowledge of the truth"
                      (1 Timothy2:4).  One may legitimately therefore wonder why there is so much
                      difference of opinion and doctrine within the Christian community, particularly
                      since all Christians point to the same source of truth--the Bible.  It's because
                      truth is hidden.

                      1 Corinthians 2:7 -- But we speak the wisdom of God in a mystery, the hidden
                      wisdom which God ordained before the ages for our glory.

                      And truth is not figured out, but is instead given by God to whom He will.

                      Mark 4:11 -- And He said to them [the disciples], "To you it has been given to
                      know the mystery of the kingdom of God; but to those outside, all things come in
                      parables".

                      However, "God has revealed them [the mystery] to us through His Spirit.  For the
                      Spirit searches all things, yes the deep things of God" (1 Corinthians 2:10). 
                      And his followers "have received, not the spirit of the world, but the Spirit
                      who is from God, that we might know the things that have been freely given to us
                      by God." (1 Corinthians 2:12).

                      The words Jesus spoke were Spirit and Life (John 6:69), but because "the natural
                      man does not receive the things of the Spirit of God, for they are foolishness
                      to him" (1 Corinthians 2:14), "many of His disciples, when they heard this,
                      said, 'This is a hard saying: who can understand it'" (John 6:60) and "walked
                      with Him no more" (John 6:66). 


                      The point is this--the words and teaching of Jesus Christ, and those who wrote
                      under the inspiration of the Spirit of God (i.e. the rest of the Bible) cannot
                      be understood through scholastic analysis or ritual keeping (i.e. going to
                      church, performing the sacraments, etc.).  It's "because they [the things of
                      God] are spiritually discerned" (1 Corinthians 2:14).  One can have decades of
                      study, multiple degrees, fluency in Greek, Hebrew and Aramaic, a robust
                      understanding of the historical context, and simultaneously be utterly blind to
                      the Truth.

                      So how is one to truly understand the Bible?  It can only be done if the Spirit
                      of God reveals it.  And why will God do this for you and me?

                      Luke 11:13 -- "If you then, being evil, know how to give good gifts to your
                      children, how much more will your heavenly Father give the Holy Spirit to those
                      who ask Him!"

                      And

                      James 1:5,6 -- If any of you lacks wisdom, let him ask of God, who gives to all
                      liberaly and without reproach, and it will be given to him.  But let him ask in
                      faith, with no doubting, for he who doubts is like a wave of the sea driven and
                      tossed by the wind.

                      We ask, in faith, and He who "desires all men to be saved and to come to the
                      knowledge of the truth" will do so in us.

                      May you be greatly blessed in your study of Christianity.

                      -Don
                       



                      ________________________________
                      From: Bud Polk <budpolk@...>
                      To: apologetics@yahoogroups.com
                      Sent: Sun, March 6, 2011 5:21:39 PM
                      Subject: [apologetics and theology] My intro and first question

                       
                      Dear friends,

                      I am new to the group. I am of a different faith tradition. 2011 is the year
                      I immerse myself in the study of Christianity, attendance at Christian
                      places of worship and friendship with Christians. 2010 was my year of
                      immersive study of Islam and friendship with Muslims.

                      I have a brand new study Bible. It is the "New Interpreter's Study Bible," a
                      New Revised Standard Version of the Bible. It is chock full of commentary
                      and scholarly articles and footnotes. It is over 2,000 page long. Genesis
                      starts with the first five verses, for example, and the rest of the page and
                      all the facing page is commentary. It is not a Bible of any particular sect
                      or denomination of Christianity.

                      I am starting a highly interactive, three month course online called
                      "Christianity for Deepening and Dialogue" on April 15. I got the new Bible
                      yesterday and sat down with Matthew, and began to read my way through all
                      four Gospels along with the commentary and articles. I also intend to read
                      Acts and a few of the major letters of Paul before the course begins.

                      I have also discovered an online website to take fairly intense courses on
                      Christianity and the Bible. It is slightly to the right of center in terms
                      of theology, which is perfect for me, because I want to learn more about the
                      more traditional view of Christianity. I have started a course on the
                      Gospels and I am really enjoying it.

                      I have a question and a comment about Matt 5:22. My NRSV reads : "But I say
                      to you if you angry with a brother or sister, you will be liable to
                      judgment; but is you insult a brother or sister, you are subject to council;
                      and if you say, 'You fool,' you are liable to the hell of fire." The KJV
                      uses the word "Raca" in addition to fool. What does Raca mean?

                      My comment is that many Christians I have encountered who engage in politics
                      and conservative social issues seem to be very angry, confrontational and
                      insulting. Is Matt 5:22 not given emphasis as the a tool for discourse in
                      many churches?

                      Best regards,
                      Rothwell Polk

                      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]







                      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                    • geoff Smith
                      What a wonderful truth you have written here, Don. I salute and applaud you and echo your sentiments. God bless you, In Christ Geoff ... From: Don Young To:
                      Message 10 of 10 , Mar 10, 2011
                      • 0 Attachment
                        What a wonderful truth you have written here, Don. I salute and applaud you and echo your sentiments.

                        God bless you,

                        In Christ

                        Geoff
                        ----- Original Message -----
                        From: Don Young
                        To: apologetics@yahoogroups.com
                        Sent: Thursday, March 10, 2011 2:34 AM
                        Subject: Re: [apologetics and theology] My intro and first question



                        Dear Bud,

                        Welcome to the group. I hope it will be both informative and a blessing to
                        you. Please permit me to share something with you that was shared with me that
                        I've found very beneficial.

                        There are many fascinating scholarly and socially and academically stimulating
                        areas of study within Christianity. But it's very possible for one to be
                        "always learning and never able to come to the knowledge of the truth" (2
                        Timothy 3:7). What truth?

                        John 14:6 -- "Jesus said to him, "I am the way, the truth, and the life. No one
                        comes to the Father except through me."

                        The Bible and the Christian life are all about Jesus Christ. With Him, there is
                        Life; without Him, there isn't. He said, "I have come that they may have life,
                        and that they may have it more abundantly" (John 10:10). And his disciple,
                        John, attested to this:

                        1 John 5:11 -- He who has the Son has life; he who does not have the Son of God
                        does not have life.

                        Now God "desires all men to be saved and to come to the knowledge of the truth"
                        (1 Timothy2:4). One may legitimately therefore wonder why there is so much
                        difference of opinion and doctrine within the Christian community, particularly
                        since all Christians point to the same source of truth--the Bible. It's because
                        truth is hidden.

                        1 Corinthians 2:7 -- But we speak the wisdom of God in a mystery, the hidden
                        wisdom which God ordained before the ages for our glory.

                        And truth is not figured out, but is instead given by God to whom He will.

                        Mark 4:11 -- And He said to them [the disciples], "To you it has been given to
                        know the mystery of the kingdom of God; but to those outside, all things come in
                        parables".

                        However, "God has revealed them [the mystery] to us through His Spirit.. For the
                        Spirit searches all things, yes the deep things of God" (1 Corinthians 2:10).
                        And his followers "have received, not the spirit of the world, but the Spirit
                        who is from God, that we might know the things that have been freely given to us
                        by God." (1 Corinthians 2:12).

                        The words Jesus spoke were Spirit and Life (John 6:69), but because "the natural
                        man does not receive the things of the Spirit of God, for they are foolishness
                        to him" (1 Corinthians 2:14), "many of His disciples, when they heard this,
                        said, 'This is a hard saying: who can understand it'" (John 6:60) and "walked
                        with Him no more" (John 6:66).

                        The point is this--the words and teaching of Jesus Christ, and those who wrote
                        under the inspiration of the Spirit of God (i.e. the rest of the Bible) cannot
                        be understood through scholastic analysis or ritual keeping (i.e. going to
                        church, performing the sacraments, etc.). It's "because they [the things of
                        God] are spiritually discerned" (1 Corinthians 2:14). One can have decades of
                        study, multiple degrees, fluency in Greek, Hebrew and Aramaic, a robust
                        understanding of the historical context, and simultaneously be utterly blind to
                        the Truth.

                        So how is one to truly understand the Bible? It can only be done if the Spirit
                        of God reveals it. And why will God do this for you and me?

                        Luke 11:13 -- "If you then, being evil, know how to give good gifts to your
                        children, how much more will your heavenly Father give the Holy Spirit to those
                        who ask Him!"

                        And

                        James 1:5,6 -- If any of you lacks wisdom, let him ask of God, who gives to all
                        liberaly and without reproach, and it will be given to him. But let him ask in
                        faith, with no doubting, for he who doubts is like a wave of the sea driven and
                        tossed by the wind.

                        We ask, in faith, and He who "desires all men to be saved and to come to the
                        knowledge of the truth" will do so in us.

                        May you be greatly blessed in your study of Christianity.

                        -Don


                        ________________________________
                        From: Bud Polk <budpolk@...>
                        To: apologetics@yahoogroups.com
                        Sent: Sun, March 6, 2011 5:21:39 PM
                        Subject: [apologetics and theology] My intro and first question


                        Dear friends,

                        I am new to the group. I am of a different faith tradition. 2011 is the year
                        I immerse myself in the study of Christianity, attendance at Christian
                        places of worship and friendship with Christians. 2010 was my year of
                        immersive study of Islam and friendship with Muslims.

                        I have a brand new study Bible. It is the "New Interpreter's Study Bible," a
                        New Revised Standard Version of the Bible. It is chock full of commentary
                        and scholarly articles and footnotes. It is over 2,000 page long. Genesis
                        starts with the first five verses, for example, and the rest of the page and
                        all the facing page is commentary. It is not a Bible of any particular sect
                        or denomination of Christianity.

                        I am starting a highly interactive, three month course online called
                        "Christianity for Deepening and Dialogue" on April 15. I got the new Bible
                        yesterday and sat down with Matthew, and began to read my way through all
                        four Gospels along with the commentary and articles. I also intend to read
                        Acts and a few of the major letters of Paul before the course begins.

                        I have also discovered an online website to take fairly intense courses on
                        Christianity and the Bible. It is slightly to the right of center in terms
                        of theology, which is perfect for me, because I want to learn more about the
                        more traditional view of Christianity. I have started a course on the
                        Gospels and I am really enjoying it.

                        I have a question and a comment about Matt 5:22. My NRSV reads : "But I say
                        to you if you angry with a brother or sister, you will be liable to
                        judgment; but is you insult a brother or sister, you are subject to council;
                        and if you say, 'You fool,' you are liable to the hell of fire." The KJV
                        uses the word "Raca" in addition to fool. What does Raca mean?

                        My comment is that many Christians I have encountered who engage in politics
                        and conservative social issues seem to be very angry, confrontational and
                        insulting. Is Matt 5:22 not given emphasis as the a tool for discourse in
                        many churches?

                        Best regards,
                        Rothwell Polk

                        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

                        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]




                        ------------------------------------------------------------------------------

                        No virus found in this message.
                        Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
                        Version: 10.0.1204 / Virus Database: 1435/3495 - Release Date: 03/09/11


                        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                      Your message has been successfully submitted and would be delivered to recipients shortly.