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Re: [apologetics and theology] Re: Bob.... surely you can do better ? Here's something for you to chew on....

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  • Shaun Green
    Hi William ... What about the Bible or Biblical thinking? I never once used Calvin s name, nor have I read any of his work (yet). I was also not raised
    Message 1 of 8 , Mar 1, 2006
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      Hi William

      You wrote:

      > No Bob is a guy I know. he doesnt like calvin or calvinist thinking
      >

      What about the Bible or Biblical thinking?

      I never once used Calvin's name, nor have I read any of his work (yet).
      I was also not raised Calvinist. It was Bob who mentioned Calvin,
      apparently to avoid referring to God's Word as substantiation for one
      of his statements.

      All I asked of Bob, was that he substantiate from Holy Scripture his
      claim that "God knew ahead of time who would choose to accept salvation
      through the shed Blood of Jesus and who would not". His response
      included only one verse that was totally void of any concept of
      "choice". It could even be argued that this lonely verse was taken
      totally out of context. He failed to respond to my request for another
      verse.

      I then kindly offered to substantiate the following statement from Holy
      Scripture:
      "Notwithstanding Man's responsibility, God elected ahead of time those
      whom He would save, with no regard for the choice of any man."
      For an unknown reason, Bob appeared to decline this offer.

      As far as I know, my beliefs have come from God's Word. I am prepared
      to prove this... I am also very keen to have my beliefs adjusted by
      proper references to God's Word. Is that not why we are subscribed to
      this group?

      > period just like most people Like Dave and Rod ans The Shawn Green I
      > think his name was.

      Please feel free to add the following names to your list: Jesus, Paul,
      James, Peter, John... ;-)

      Thank you

      Kind regards
      Shaun Green

      ps. Will, should you respond to this, would you please be so kind as to
      separate your ideas into paragraphs? It would make our communication
      more beneficial. Thank you.

      pps. Could we please dispense with the labels (some of them rather
      insulting), and get on with using God's Word to define our beliefs? I
      also do not think that adding personal names to subject lines is
      particularly helpful. Poor Bob must be tired of seeing his name in
      lights! ;-)
    • william_elkins2000
      William is stating: Shaun, Indentation is difficult on the message boards but I ll do my best to help, Biblical thinking isn t the point Calvinistic thinking
      Message 2 of 8 , Mar 1, 2006
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        William is stating: Shaun, Indentation is difficult on the message
        boards but I'll do my best to help, Biblical thinking isn't the
        point Calvinistic thinking is. Even if Dave or Bob do not understand
        it. Bob only called it false doctrine. What Dave calls it is not
        understandable.(something alonmg those lines) Biblical Thinking is
        what we are all striving for

        Will
        --- In apologetics@yahoogroups.com, Shaun Green <learning@...>
        wrote:
        >
        > Hi William
        >
        > You wrote:
        >
        > > No Bob is a guy I know. he doesnt like calvin or calvinist
        thinking
        > >
        >
        > What about the Bible or Biblical thinking?
        >
        > I never once used Calvin's name, nor have I read any of his work
        (yet).
        > I was also not raised Calvinist. It was Bob who mentioned Calvin,
        > apparently to avoid referring to God's Word as substantiation for
        one
        > of his statements.
        >
        > All I asked of Bob, was that he substantiate from Holy Scripture
        his
        > claim that "God knew ahead of time who would choose to accept
        salvation
        > through the shed Blood of Jesus and who would not". His response
        > included only one verse that was totally void of any concept of
        > "choice". It could even be argued that this lonely verse was
        taken
        > totally out of context. He failed to respond to my request for
        another
        > verse.
        >
        > I then kindly offered to substantiate the following statement from
        Holy
        > Scripture:
        > "Notwithstanding Man's responsibility, God elected ahead of time
        those
        > whom He would save, with no regard for the choice of any man."
        > For an unknown reason, Bob appeared to decline this offer.
        >
        > As far as I know, my beliefs have come from God's Word. I am
        prepared
        > to prove this... I am also very keen to have my beliefs adjusted
        by
        > proper references to God's Word. Is that not why we are
        subscribed to
        > this group?
        >
        > > period just like most people Like Dave and Rod ans The Shawn
        Green I
        > > think his name was.
        >
        > Please feel free to add the following names to your list: Jesus,
        Paul,
        > James, Peter, John... ;-)
        >
        > Thank you
        >
        > Kind regards
        > Shaun Green
        >
        > ps. Will, should you respond to this, would you please be so kind
        as to
        > separate your ideas into paragraphs? It would make our
        communication
        > more beneficial. Thank you.
        >
        > pps. Could we please dispense with the labels (some of them
        rather
        > insulting), and get on with using God's Word to define our
        beliefs? I
        > also do not think that adding personal names to subject lines is
        > particularly helpful. Poor Bob must be tired of seeing his name
        in
        > lights! ;-)
        >
      • Dave Russell
        Any thoughts from you guys on the question I asked regarding prophecy and Islam? ... William is stating: Shaun, Indentation is difficult on the message boards
        Message 3 of 8 , Mar 1, 2006
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          Any thoughts from you guys on the question I asked
          regarding prophecy and Islam?

          --- william_elkins2000 <william_elkins2000@...>
          wrote:


          ---------------------------------
          William is stating: Shaun, Indentation is difficult on
          the message
          boards but I'll do my best to help, Biblical thinking
          isn't the
          point Calvinistic thinking is. Even if Dave or Bob do
          not understand
          it. Bob only called it false doctrine. What Dave calls
          it is not
          understandable.(something alonmg those lines) Biblical
          Thinking is
          what we are all striving for

          Will
          --- In apologetics@yahoogroups.com, Shaun Green
          <learning@...>
          wrote:
          >
          > Hi William
          >
          > You wrote:
          >
          > > No Bob is a guy I know. he doesnt like calvin or
          calvinist
          thinking
          > >
          >
          > What about the Bible or Biblical thinking?
          >
          > I never once used Calvin's name, nor have I read any
          of his work
          (yet).
          > I was also not raised Calvinist. It was Bob who
          mentioned Calvin,
          > apparently to avoid referring to God's Word as
          substantiation for
          one
          > of his statements.
          >
          > All I asked of Bob, was that he substantiate from
          Holy Scripture
          his
          > claim that "God knew ahead of time who would choose
          to accept
          salvation
          > through the shed Blood of Jesus and who would not".
          His response
          > included only one verse that was totally void of any
          concept of
          > "choice". It could even be argued that this lonely
          verse was
          taken
          > totally out of context. He failed to respond to my
          request for
          another
          > verse.
          >
          > I then kindly offered to substantiate the following
          statement from
          Holy
          > Scripture:
          > "Notwithstanding Man's responsibility, God elected
          ahead of time
          those
          > whom He would save, with no regard for the choice of
          any man."
          > For an unknown reason, Bob appeared to decline this
          offer.
          >
          > As far as I know, my beliefs have come from God's
          Word. I am
          prepared
          > to prove this... I am also very keen to have my
          beliefs adjusted
          by
          > proper references to God's Word. Is that not why we
          are
          subscribed to
          > this group?
          >
          > > period just like most people Like Dave and Rod ans
          The Shawn
          Green I
          > > think his name was.
          >
          > Please feel free to add the following names to your
          list: Jesus,
          Paul,
          > James, Peter, John... ;-)
          >
          > Thank you
          >
          > Kind regards
          > Shaun Green
          >
          > ps. Will, should you respond to this, would you
          please be so kind
          as to
          > separate your ideas into paragraphs? It would make
          our
          communication
          > more beneficial. Thank you.
          >
          > pps. Could we please dispense with the labels (some
          of them
          rather
          > insulting), and get on with using God's Word to
          define our
          beliefs? I
          > also do not think that adding personal names to
          subject lines is
          > particularly helpful. Poor Bob must be tired of
          seeing his name
          in
          > lights! ;-)
          >







          Brought to you by Theologically Correct dot Com
          Ministries.
          http://theologicallycorrect.com
          1 Peter 3:15, Jude 3 - Resources for Christian Living
          for the Whole Life of the Believer



          SPONSORED LINKS

          Theology degree
          Theology Christian
          theology
          Christianity
          Theology study
          Theology book


          ---------------------------------
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          Visit your group "apologetics" on the web.

          To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
          apologetics-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com

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          Terms of Service.


          ---------------------------------




          David L. Russell
          Editor-in-Chief
          Tri-State Bluegrass Journal


          http://www.bluegrasstalkradio.com


          http://www.tristatebluegrassjournal.com

          http://www.Indianabluegrass.com
          http://www.michiganbluegrass.com
          http://www.buckeyebluegrass.com
        • Dave Russell
          Also, I will pick up the recommended books and material on Calvinism, and I will study it. I really don t want to fight anymore about the issue, but I am
          Message 4 of 8 , Mar 1, 2006
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            Also, I will pick up the recommended books and
            material on Calvinism, and I will study it. I really
            don't want to fight anymore about the issue, but I am
            interested in knowing what you all think about other
            issues that effect the Church. Issues such as the
            Middle east (Islam and prophecy), post-modern ideology
            (especially how many Christian thinkers are
            genuflecting before its alter), etc. Thanks.



            --- Dave Russell <drussell60@...> wrote:


            ---------------------------------
            Any thoughts from you guys on the question I asked
            regarding prophecy and Islam?

            --- william_elkins2000 <william_elkins2000@...>
            wrote:


            ---------------------------------
            William is stating: Shaun, Indentation is difficult on
            the message
            boards but I'll do my best to help, Biblical thinking
            isn't the
            point Calvinistic thinking is. Even if Dave or Bob do
            not understand
            it. Bob only called it false doctrine. What Dave calls
            it is not
            understandable.(something alonmg those lines) Biblical
            Thinking is
            what we are all striving for

            Will
            --- In apologetics@yahoogroups.com, Shaun Green
            <learning@...>
            wrote:
            >
            > Hi William
            >
            > You wrote:
            >
            > > No Bob is a guy I know. he doesnt like calvin or
            calvinist
            thinking
            > >
            >
            > What about the Bible or Biblical thinking?
            >
            > I never once used Calvin's name, nor have I read any
            of his work
            (yet).
            > I was also not raised Calvinist. It was Bob who
            mentioned Calvin,
            > apparently to avoid referring to God's Word as
            substantiation for
            one
            > of his statements.
            >
            > All I asked of Bob, was that he substantiate from
            Holy Scripture
            his
            > claim that "God knew ahead of time who would choose
            to accept
            salvation
            > through the shed Blood of Jesus and who would not".
            His response
            > included only one verse that was totally void of any
            concept of
            > "choice". It could even be argued that this lonely
            verse was
            taken
            > totally out of context. He failed to respond to my
            request for
            another
            > verse.
            >
            > I then kindly offered to substantiate the following
            statement from
            Holy
            > Scripture:
            > "Notwithstanding Man's responsibility, God elected
            ahead of time
            those
            > whom He would save, with no regard for the choice of
            any man."
            > For an unknown reason, Bob appeared to decline this
            offer.
            >
            > As far as I know, my beliefs have come from God's
            Word. I am
            prepared
            > to prove this... I am also very keen to have my
            beliefs adjusted
            by
            > proper references to God's Word. Is that not why we
            are
            subscribed to
            > this group?
            >
            > > period just like most people Like Dave and Rod ans
            The Shawn
            Green I
            > > think his name was.
            >
            > Please feel free to add the following names to your
            list: Jesus,
            Paul,
            > James, Peter, John... ;-)
            >
            > Thank you
            >
            > Kind regards
            > Shaun Green
            >
            > ps. Will, should you respond to this, would you
            please be so kind
            as to
            > separate your ideas into paragraphs? It would make
            our
            communication
            > more beneficial. Thank you.
            >
            > pps. Could we please dispense with the labels (some
            of them
            rather
            > insulting), and get on with using God's Word to
            define our
            beliefs? I
            > also do not think that adding personal names to
            subject lines is
            > particularly helpful. Poor Bob must be tired of
            seeing his name
            in
            > lights! ;-)
            >







            Brought to you by Theologically Correct dot Com
            Ministries.
            http://theologicallycorrect.com
            1 Peter 3:15, Jude 3 - Resources for Christian Living
            for the Whole Life of the Believer



            SPONSORED LINKS

            Theology degree
            Theology Christian
            theology
            Christianity
            Theology study
            Theology book


            ---------------------------------
            YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS


            Visit your group "apologetics" on the web.

            To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
            apologetics-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com

            Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo!
            Terms of Service.


            ---------------------------------




            David L. Russell
            Editor-in-Chief
            Tri-State Bluegrass Journal


            http://www.bluegrasstalkradio.com


            http://www.tristatebluegrassjournal.com

            http://www.Indianabluegrass.com
            http://www.michiganbluegrass.com
            http://www.buckeyebluegrass.com







            Brought to you by Theologically Correct dot Com
            Ministries.
            http://theologicallycorrect.com
            1 Peter 3:15, Jude 3 - Resources for Christian Living
            for the Whole Life of the Believer



            ---------------------------------
            YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS


            Visit your group "apologetics" on the web.

            To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
            apologetics-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com

            Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo!
            Terms of Service.


            ---------------------------------

            David L. Russell
            Editor-in-Chief
            Tri-State Bluegrass Journal


            http://www.bluegrasstalkradio.com


            http://www.tristatebluegrassjournal.com

            http://www.Indianabluegrass.com
            http://www.michiganbluegrass.com
            http://www.buckeyebluegrass.com
          • william_elkins2000
            honestluy i have said thisd before but maybe maybe not in here I think Islam is in danger of comming to the west. The west thinks Denominationalism Muhammed
            Message 5 of 8 , Mar 1, 2006
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              honestluy i have said thisd before but maybe maybe not in here I
              think Islam is in danger of comming to the west. The west
              thinks "Denominationalism" Muhammed wqas firm on staying unified and
              Monotheistic This is one reasom why slam claims to be true
              monotheistic and Christianity is not (because of denominaations and
              cultic books like the book of zmormon and the POGP and the new world
              translation. They see all of these as sects of Christianity even if
              they arent even considered orthodoxy or "wrong god" or "wrong lord" I
              didn't see your question on prophecy but these are worth considering.
              But do y6ou mind asking again? most likely I will stay out of it
              because Im not great at Islam. I have really only read and taking a
              clas called "Violence and Religion" its a philosopjhy course I needed
              an extra class and it was recommended to me. the class is sort of a
              drag though plus I hate politics and that gets alot of the attention.
              Do you mwan that the fundies own Isreal? Thats the only thing that i
              saw written by you that was along these lines. But I have read
              Geisler's answering Islam a long ime ago aand there is a website
              www.answeringislaam.com or it might be askingislam.com since neither
              of hese turned Blus i will asssume nothing. but you can speak and i
              will shut up.

              Will
              --- In apologetics@yahoogroups.com, Dave Russell <drussell60@...>
              wrote:
              >
              > Any thoughts from you guys on the question I asked
              > regarding prophecy and Islam?
              >
              > --- william_elkins2000 <william_elkins2000@...>
              > wrote:
              >
              >
              > ---------------------------------
              > William is stating: Shaun, Indentation is difficult on
              > the message
              > boards but I'll do my best to help, Biblical thinking
              > isn't the
              > point Calvinistic thinking is. Even if Dave or Bob do
              > not understand
              > it. Bob only called it false doctrine. What Dave calls
              > it is not
              > understandable.(something alonmg those lines) Biblical
              > Thinking is
              > what we are all striving for
              >
              > Will
              > --- In apologetics@yahoogroups.com, Shaun Green
              > <learning@>
              > wrote:
              > >
              > > Hi William
              > >
              > > You wrote:
              > >
              > > > No Bob is a guy I know. he doesnt like calvin or
              > calvinist
              > thinking
              > > >
              > >
              > > What about the Bible or Biblical thinking?
              > >
              > > I never once used Calvin's name, nor have I read any
              > of his work
              > (yet).
              > > I was also not raised Calvinist. It was Bob who
              > mentioned Calvin,
              > > apparently to avoid referring to God's Word as
              > substantiation for
              > one
              > > of his statements.
              > >
              > > All I asked of Bob, was that he substantiate from
              > Holy Scripture
              > his
              > > claim that "God knew ahead of time who would choose
              > to accept
              > salvation
              > > through the shed Blood of Jesus and who would not".
              > His response
              > > included only one verse that was totally void of any
              > concept of
              > > "choice". It could even be argued that this lonely
              > verse was
              > taken
              > > totally out of context. He failed to respond to my
              > request for
              > another
              > > verse.
              > >
              > > I then kindly offered to substantiate the following
              > statement from
              > Holy
              > > Scripture:
              > > "Notwithstanding Man's responsibility, God elected
              > ahead of time
              > those
              > > whom He would save, with no regard for the choice of
              > any man."
              > > For an unknown reason, Bob appeared to decline this
              > offer.
              > >
              > > As far as I know, my beliefs have come from God's
              > Word. I am
              > prepared
              > > to prove this... I am also very keen to have my
              > beliefs adjusted
              > by
              > > proper references to God's Word. Is that not why we
              > are
              > subscribed to
              > > this group?
              > >
              > > > period just like most people Like Dave and Rod ans
              > The Shawn
              > Green I
              > > > think his name was.
              > >
              > > Please feel free to add the following names to your
              > list: Jesus,
              > Paul,
              > > James, Peter, John... ;-)
              > >
              > > Thank you
              > >
              > > Kind regards
              > > Shaun Green
              > >
              > > ps. Will, should you respond to this, would you
              > please be so kind
              > as to
              > > separate your ideas into paragraphs? It would make
              > our
              > communication
              > > more beneficial. Thank you.
              > >
              > > pps. Could we please dispense with the labels (some
              > of them
              > rather
              > > insulting), and get on with using God's Word to
              > define our
              > beliefs? I
              > > also do not think that adding personal names to
              > subject lines is
              > > particularly helpful. Poor Bob must be tired of
              > seeing his name
              > in
              > > lights! ;-)
              > >
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >
              > Brought to you by Theologically Correct dot Com
              > Ministries.
              > http://theologicallycorrect.com
              > 1 Peter 3:15, Jude 3 - Resources for Christian Living
              > for the Whole Life of the Believer
              >
              >
              >
              > SPONSORED LINKS
              >
              > Theology degree
              > Theology Christian
              > theology
              > Christianity
              > Theology study
              > Theology book
              >
              >
              > ---------------------------------
              > YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS
              >
              >
              > Visit your group "apologetics" on the web.
              >
              > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
              > apologetics-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
              >
              > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo!
              > Terms of Service.
              >
              >
              > ---------------------------------
              >
              >
              >
              >
              > David L. Russell
              > Editor-in-Chief
              > Tri-State Bluegrass Journal
              >
              >
              > http://www.bluegrasstalkradio.com
              >
              >
              > http://www.tristatebluegrassjournal.com
              >
              > http://www.Indianabluegrass.com
              > http://www.michiganbluegrass.com
              > http://www.buckeyebluegrass.com
              >
            • beamanofgod1914
              ... Well, in a nutshell, I think the major issue with Islam is (as William has stated) it s coming to the west. Islamic ideology is pretty simple - set up
              Message 6 of 8 , Mar 1, 2006
              • 0 Attachment
                --- In apologetics@yahoogroups.com, Dave Russell <drussell60@...> wrote:
                >
                > Also, I will pick up the recommended books and
                > material on Calvinism, and I will study it. I really
                > don't want to fight anymore about the issue, but I am
                > interested in knowing what you all think about other
                > issues that effect the Church. Issues such as the
                > Middle east (Islam and prophecy), post-modern ideology
                > (especially how many Christian thinkers are
                > genuflecting before its alter), etc. Thanks.


                Well, in a nutshell, I think the major 'issue' with Islam is (as
                William has stated) it's coming to the west. Islamic ideology is
                pretty simple - set up small communities like 'islands', slowly grow
                in influence to eventually take over the culture.

                From my observation, most Muslims do exactly as their prophet did -
                preach 'let there be no compulsion in religion' while they are in the
                minority and switch up to 'slay the infidels and tax them to the
                utmost until they submit and confess that Allah is the only God and
                Muhummad is His prophet'.

                The folks celebrating 9/11 in the streets of Afghanistan weren't
                'radical' Muslims. And frankly, the reason the 'radicals' get away
                with so much is because (again, my observation - I actively studied
                Islam years ago, but haven't really 'touched it' since about 96-98)
                fundamentally, this is where it leads to.

                And I think in about 10 years or so, we're going to have an 'Islamic'
                problem just as France and Britain do now (where there are in Britan,
                for example, more Muslims than Baptists).

                I'm all for evangelizing their communities heavily. But there are so
                many other issues 'attacking' the church from the INSIDE that a lot of
                'us' are asleep at the wheel. That includes GETTING THE GOSPEL
                RIGHT, since a lot of churches have slipped into the PoMo mindset or
                the 'seeker-driven' mindset, so as to take the offense out of the gospel.

                A non-offensive gospel, IMO, isn't really the gospel.

                I have more thoughts, but sleep calleth.

                Everyone have a blessed day. :)

                Kerry

                PS - I normally don't 'EXPLODE' out of nowhere on the doctrines of
                grace and I'm usually a lot more reserved. Those who know me know
                that my recent list-posting activity is the exception and not the
                rule. :) I'm usually a lot nicer. :)
              • Dave Russell
                Kerry, very good synopsis. I agree with you that perhaps in the next decade we re going to have the same problem Europe is having with regard to the Muslims.
                Message 7 of 8 , Mar 1, 2006
                • 0 Attachment
                  Kerry, very good synopsis. I agree with you that
                  perhaps in the next decade we're going to have the
                  same problem Europe is having with regard to the
                  Muslims. Will they eventually be our captors? Do you
                  think this fits into biblical prophecy? Should we
                  prepare to take up arms eventually, or is that
                  anathema? Just some thoughts.

                  --- beamanofgod1914 <kerry@...>
                  wrote:


                  ---------------------------------
                  --- In apologetics@yahoogroups.com, Dave Russell
                  <drussell60@...> wrote:
                  >
                  > Also, I will pick up the recommended books and
                  > material on Calvinism, and I will study it. I
                  really
                  > don't want to fight anymore about the issue, but I
                  am
                  > interested in knowing what you all think about other
                  > issues that effect the Church. Issues such as the
                  > Middle east (Islam and prophecy), post-modern
                  ideology
                  > (especially how many Christian thinkers are
                  > genuflecting before its alter), etc. Thanks.


                  Well, in a nutshell, I think the major 'issue' with
                  Islam is (as
                  William has stated) it's coming to the west. Islamic
                  ideology is
                  pretty simple - set up small communities like
                  'islands', slowly grow
                  in influence to eventually take over the culture.

                  From my observation, most Muslims do exactly as their
                  prophet did -
                  preach 'let there be no compulsion in religion' while
                  they are in the
                  minority and switch up to 'slay the infidels and tax
                  them to the
                  utmost until they submit and confess that Allah is the
                  only God and
                  Muhummad is His prophet'.

                  The folks celebrating 9/11 in the streets of
                  Afghanistan weren't
                  'radical' Muslims. And frankly, the reason the
                  'radicals' get away
                  with so much is because (again, my observation - I
                  actively studied
                  Islam years ago, but haven't really 'touched it' since
                  about 96-98)
                  fundamentally, this is where it leads to.

                  And I think in about 10 years or so, we're going to
                  have an 'Islamic'
                  problem just as France and Britain do now (where there
                  are in Britan,
                  for example, more Muslims than Baptists).

                  I'm all for evangelizing their communities heavily.
                  But there are so
                  many other issues 'attacking' the church from the
                  INSIDE that a lot of
                  'us' are asleep at the wheel. That includes GETTING
                  THE GOSPEL
                  RIGHT, since a lot of churches have slipped into the
                  PoMo mindset or
                  the 'seeker-driven' mindset, so as to take the offense
                  out of the gospel.

                  A non-offensive gospel, IMO, isn't really the gospel.

                  I have more thoughts, but sleep calleth.

                  Everyone have a blessed day. :)

                  Kerry

                  PS - I normally don't 'EXPLODE' out of nowhere on the
                  doctrines of
                  grace and I'm usually a lot more reserved. Those who
                  know me know
                  that my recent list-posting activity is the exception
                  and not the
                  rule. :) I'm usually a lot nicer. :)






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                • william_elkins2000
                  Kerry foegive my ignorance but what is going on in Britian and France? Besides ther are more of them than there are Baptists? I m not the current events
                  Message 8 of 8 , Mar 2, 2006
                  • 0 Attachment
                    Kerry foegive my ignorance but what is going on in Britian and
                    France? Besides ther are more of them than there are Baptists? I'm
                    not the current events person i guess, but then a small episode of my
                    family. My Brother in law is a Church planter in Canada. He took a
                    trip into Baghdad to try planting some type of Christian Church
                    (possibly a Baptist one, I dont know). Thier Culture is very violent,
                    reletive to Canada it wasn't abnormal for a Mussilum to take a
                    machine gun and shoot off a couple of clips in a coffee shop. So I
                    guess my question would be on "Extreeme Islam"? Im sorry a "Radical
                    Iaslam" I remmeber seeing the Afganese(sp) celebrating 9/11 they
                    aren't conmsidered extreeme? or is thyat type of violence considered
                    normative? i guess reletive to what happens in Isreal or anywhere
                    else. I know that the Islamic people over here who are of the faith
                    of islam I think many of them say "I love America" And thats great
                    and all but it's confusing because of what you precisly said Islam is
                    not the same in the east. The word exteme is one I really don't
                    understand . When I was in Media a while ago (Radio music player) I
                    would see the word extreem asnd then say out loud wheen in my news
                    be\reak "Can anybody tell me What this word extreem means?" This was
                    before 9/11 but i used it just like most newscasters say the word.
                    In my philosophy class that I told you about yesterday I am "The
                    extreem protistant" I ask I dont understand the term. Ive neve been
                    called an extreem anything. but i know that the term you used was
                    Radical so take my extreems as mere entertainment.

                    Will
                    --- In apologetics@yahoogroups.com, "beamanofgod1914" <kerry@...>
                    wrote:
                    >
                    > --- In apologetics@yahoogroups.com, Dave Russell <drussell60@>
                    wrote:
                    > >
                    > > Also, I will pick up the recommended books and
                    > > material on Calvinism, and I will study it. I really
                    > > don't want to fight anymore about the issue, but I am
                    > > interested in knowing what you all think about other
                    > > issues that effect the Church. Issues such as the
                    > > Middle east (Islam and prophecy), post-modern ideology
                    > > (especially how many Christian thinkers are
                    > > genuflecting before its alter), etc. Thanks.
                    >
                    >
                    > Well, in a nutshell, I think the major 'issue' with Islam is (as
                    > William has stated) it's coming to the west. Islamic ideology is
                    > pretty simple - set up small communities like 'islands', slowly grow
                    > in influence to eventually take over the culture.
                    >
                    > From my observation, most Muslims do exactly as their prophet did -
                    > preach 'let there be no compulsion in religion' while they are in
                    the
                    > minority and switch up to 'slay the infidels and tax them to the
                    > utmost until they submit and confess that Allah is the only God and
                    > Muhummad is His prophet'.
                    >
                    > The folks celebrating 9/11 in the streets of Afghanistan weren't
                    > 'radical' Muslims. And frankly, the reason the 'radicals' get away
                    > with so much is because (again, my observation - I actively studied
                    > Islam years ago, but haven't really 'touched it' since about 96-98)
                    > fundamentally, this is where it leads to.
                    >
                    > And I think in about 10 years or so, we're going to have
                    an 'Islamic'
                    > problem just as France and Britain do now (where there are in
                    Britan,
                    > for example, more Muslims than Baptists).
                    >
                    > I'm all for evangelizing their communities heavily. But there are
                    so
                    > many other issues 'attacking' the church from the INSIDE that a lot
                    of
                    > 'us' are asleep at the wheel. That includes GETTING THE GOSPEL
                    > RIGHT, since a lot of churches have slipped into the PoMo mindset or
                    > the 'seeker-driven' mindset, so as to take the offense out of the
                    gospel.
                    >
                    > A non-offensive gospel, IMO, isn't really the gospel.
                    >
                    > I have more thoughts, but sleep calleth.
                    >
                    > Everyone have a blessed day. :)
                    >
                    > Kerry
                    >
                    > PS - I normally don't 'EXPLODE' out of nowhere on the doctrines of
                    > grace and I'm usually a lot more reserved. Those who know me know
                    > that my recent list-posting activity is the exception and not the
                    > rule. :) I'm usually a lot nicer. :)
                    >
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