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[apologetics and theology] Re: Black Genocide and Political Correctness

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  • Dana
    Gen 15:16 But in the fourth generation they shall come hither again: for the iniquity of the Amorites is not yet full. Gen 15:17 And it came to pass, that,
    Message 1 of 19 , May 31, 2005
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      Gen 15:16 But in the fourth generation they shall come hither again:
      for the iniquity of the Amorites is not yet full.
      Gen 15:17 And it came to pass, that, when the sun went down, and it
      was dark, behold a smoking furnace, and a burning lamp that passed
      between those pieces.
      Gen 15:18 In the same day the LORD made a covenant with Abram,
      saying, Unto thy seed have I given this land, from the river of Egypt
      unto the great river, the river Euphrates:
      Gen 15:19 The Kenites, and the Kenizzites, and the Kadmonites,
      Gen 15:20 And the Hittites, and the Perizzites, and the Rephaims,
      Gen 15:21 And the Amorites, and the Canaanites, and the Girgashites,
      and the Jebusites.

      It was for their "iniquity," or perversity, moral evil, that the
      Amorites were judged and handed over to the Israelites. And God
      waited until their iniquity was full...some 400 years.

      And they did not follow through...and look what it brought them. Baal
      worship, and them murdering their own children.

      And just a minor correction, but it was not the Christians that drove
      the Jews into Ghettos, although far too many remained silent on the
      issue. It was Hitler and his party, and they were not Christian.

      Besides, the evil actions of individual professed adherents to a
      belief do not make the belief good or bad. It depends on whether the
      belief actually supports such actions.

      As our actions, according to Christ's teaching are to be controlled by
      love, I doubt very much that much of an argument could be made for
      slaying those who do not wish to convert.

      I personally find it interesting that many non-Christians in our
      society will defend the right of a convicted murderer to live and yet
      not the life of the unborn.

      --- In apologetics@yahoogroups.com, "Bill Ross" <BillRoss@n...> wrote:
      > <Dana>
      > >>I just listened to an interesting sermon on the topic of abortion that
      > really gave me no new information, but definitely left me thinking a
      bit.
      >
      > <Bill>
      > What do you make of this?:
      >
      > Es 8:11 Wherein the king granted the Jews which were in every city to
      > gather themselves together, and to stand for their life, to destroy, to
      > slay, and to cause to perish, all the power of the people and
      province that
      > would assault them, both little ones and women, and to take the spoil of
      > them for a prey,
      >
      > Ps 137:9 Happy shall he be, that taketh and dasheth thy little ones
      against
      > the stones.
      >
      > Ex 11:5 And all the firstborn in the land of Egypt shall die, from the
      > firstborn of Pharaoh that sitteth upon his throne, even unto the
      firstborn
      > of the maidservant that is behind the mill; and all the firstborn of
      beasts.
      > Ex 12:12 For I will pass through the land of Egypt this night, and will
      > smite all the firstborn in the land of Egypt, both man and beast; and
      > against all the gods of Egypt I will execute judgment: I am the LORD.
      > Ex 12:29 And it came to pass, that at midnight the LORD smote all the
      > firstborn in the land of Egypt, from the firstborn of Pharaoh that
      sat on
      > his throne unto the firstborn of the captive that was in the
      dungeon; and
      > all the firstborn of cattle.
      >
      > 1 Sam 15:
      > 1 ¶ Samuel also said unto Saul, The LORD sent me to anoint thee to
      be king
      > over his people, over Israel: now therefore hearken thou unto the
      voice of
      > the words of the LORD.
      > 2 Thus saith the LORD of hosts, I remember that which Amalek did to
      Israel,
      > how he laid wait for him in the way, when he came up from Egypt.
      > 3 Now go and smite Amalek, and utterly destroy all that they have, and
      > spare them not; but slay both man and woman, infant and suckling, ox and
      > sheep, camel and ass.
      >
      > I think it is raging hypocrisy to be indignant about the killing of
      unborn
      > children and the murder by muslims of innocent people and accepting
      of the
      > genocide and infanticide ordered by Jehovah in the *conquest* of
      Palestine.
      >
      > Jehovah ordered Jihad against the people of Palestine, genocide,
      infanticide
      > and seizure of the land.
      >
      > *Christians* have historically aggressed all over the world in crusades,
      > putting Jews in ghettos and murdering people who would not "repent"and
      > accept the rule of the church.
      >
      > Bill Ross
    • Dana
      Personally, I think the point of the infanticide in the OT, is that when God judges a nation for its sins, He judges the entire nation, not just the
      Message 2 of 19 , Jun 1, 2005
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        Personally, I think the point of the "infanticide" in the OT, is that
        when God judges a nation for its sins, He judges the entire nation,
        not just the individual transgressors.

        Of course, those who truly had no part in it and were walking in God's
        ways will be just fine on Judgment Day.

        Christians who believe they are "safe" just believing in Christ abd
        not participating in the sins of our nation are wrong. We may be ok
        on the last day, but in the meantime, we too will suffer the
        consequences of a nation that has gone astray...Christians, too, can
        be victims of murder, rape, molestation, robbery as well as increasing
        rates of disease.

        Hepatitis is on the rise (near epidemic proportions in some areas).
        And even leprosy has seen a huge increase in recent years.

        --- In apologetics@yahoogroups.com, B1E1Nugent@a... wrote:
        >
        > In a message dated 5/30/2005 11:20:44 PM Eastern Standard Time,
        > BillRoss@n... writes:
        >
        > I think it is raging hypocrisy to be indignant about the killing of
        unborn
        > children and the murder by Muslims of innocent people and accepting
        of the
        > genocide and infanticide ordered by Jehovah in the *conquest* of
        Palestine.
        >
        > Jehovah ordered Jihad against the people of Palestine, genocide,
        infanticide
        > and seizure of the land.
        >
        >
        >
        > Hi Bill,
        >
        > This is Bill Nugent of Overcomer Ministries. If you believe
        that God
        > created the earth you must also believe that He owns the earth and
        all human
        > lives on it including the infants. God has the right and power to
        take any
        > life at any time. He also has the right to order people to kill
        other people.
        > There are several Bible passages that indicate that God did in fact
        order the
        > killing of people, including the very young, by the Israelites. God
        did not,
        > to my knowledge order the Crusades or ghettoizing Jewish people.
        When people
        > kill other people without being ordered by God to do so they commit
        murder
        > and it is sin.
        > In my article "Black Genocide and Political Correctness" I
        show how
        > abortion disproportionately affects Black people. God has not given
        people
        > permission to kill their unborn babies through abortion. Abortion
        is therefore
        > murder. Abortion mills being opened in black neighborhoods has
        genocidal
        > overtones. See blackgenocide.org.
        >
        >
        > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      • Bill Ross
        ... abortion disproportionately affects Black people. God has not given people permission to kill their unborn babies through abortion. Abortion is
        Message 3 of 19 , Jun 1, 2005
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          <Nugent>
          >>...In my article "Black Genocide and Political Correctness" I show how
          abortion disproportionately affects Black people. God has not given people
          permission to kill their unborn babies through abortion. Abortion is
          therefore murder. Abortion mills being opened in black neighborhoods has
          genocidal overtones. See blackgenocide.org.

          <Bill>
          Genocide is the systematic elimination of a race by another race, yes? If
          so, would this not instead be an example a race commiting assisted suicide?
          Or are you saying that somehow the white population is intentionally
          impregnating black people or in some way coercing black women to abort? From
          what I understand, there is some economic incentive provided for poor women
          to have many babies.

          But about 1/3 of the US is black, so the race is not being eliminated, even
          by suicide. Rather, this is an example of a large number of ignorant men
          shirking family responsibility and a large number of women engaging in
          unprotected sex.

          I recognize, of course, that the black culture was severely damaged by
          slavery and lies at the root of many of their current social ills, however I
          wonder if you are not being a bit unhelpful by suggesting a conspiracy of
          genocide just because the statistics lean toward the black. The practice is
          worldwide and crosses all racial and class boundaries. Some cultures,
          though, accept this barbaric approach to birth control more than others.

          Bill Ross
        • Dana
          My understanding is that Ms. Margaret Sanger, the founder of Planned Parenthood, did target blacks for her services. She certainly was a social darwinist.
          Message 4 of 19 , Jun 1, 2005
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            My understanding is that Ms. Margaret Sanger, the founder of Planned
            Parenthood, did target blacks for her services. She certainly was a
            social darwinist. Here is an interesting quote:

            ********************

            It [charity] encourages the healthier and more normal sections of
            the world to shoulder the burden of unthinking and indiscriminate
            fecundity of others; which brings with it, as I think the reader must
            agree, a dead weight of human waste. Instead of decreasing and aiming
            to eliminate the stocks that are most detrimental to the future of the
            race and the world, it tends to render them to a menacing degree dominant.

            And one of her clinics:

            The Harlem Clinic

            In 1929, 10 years before Sanger created the Negro Project, the ABCL
            laid the groundwork for a clinic in Harlem, a largely black section of
            New York City. It was the dawn of the Great Depression, and for blacks
            that meant double the misery. Blacks faced harsher conditions of
            desperation and privation because of widespread racial prejudice and
            discrimination. From the ABCL's perspective, Harlem was the ideal
            place for this "experimental clinic," which officially opened on
            November 21, 1930. Many blacks looked to escape their adverse
            circumstances and therefore did not recognize the eugenic undercurrent
            of the clinic. The clinic relied on the generosity of private
            foundations to remain in business. In addition to being thought of as
            "inferior" and disproportionately represented in the underclass,
            according to the clinic's own files used to justify its "work," blacks
            in Harlem:

            * were segregated in an over-populated area (224,760 of
            330,000 of greater New York's population lived in Harlem during the
            late 1920s and 1930s);
            * comprised 12 percent of New York City's population, but
            accounted for 18.4 percent of New York City's unemployment;
            * had an infant mortality rate of 101 per 1000 births,
            compared to 56 among whites;
            * had a death rate from tuberculosis–237 per 100,000–that was
            highest in central Harlem, out of all of New York City.

            Although the clinic served whites as well as blacks, it "was
            established for the benefit of the colored people." Sanger wrote this
            in a letter to Dr. W. E. Burghardt DuBois, one of the day's most
            influential blacks. A sociologist and author, he helped found the
            National Association for the Advancement of Colored People (NAACP) in
            1909 to improve the living conditions of black Americans.

            http://blackgenocide.org/negro.html
            **************************

            I don't think "genocide" is such a bad term for it, even if the
            participants have been conned into thinking it is for their own
            benefit. Many Jews got on those trains for "relocation" willingly
            because they did not believe the rumors and did not really believe
            that something so horrific could be true.

            bies through abortion. Abortion is
            > therefore murder. Abortion mills being opened in black
            neighborhoods has
            > genocidal overtones. See blackgenocide.org.
            >
            > <Bill>
            > Genocide is the systematic elimination of a race by another race,
            yes? If
            > so, would this not instead be an example a race commiting assisted
            suicide?
            > Or are you saying that somehow the white population is intentionally
            > impregnating black people or in some way coercing black women to
            abort? From
            > what I understand, there is some economic incentive provided for
            poor women
            > to have many babies.
            >
            > But about 1/3 of the US is black, so the race is not being
            eliminated, even
            > by suicide. Rather, this is an example of a large number of ignorant men
            > shirking family responsibility and a large number of women engaging in
            > unprotected sex.
            >
            > I recognize, of course, that the black culture was severely damaged by
            > slavery and lies at the root of many of their current social ills,
            however I
            > wonder if you are not being a bit unhelpful by suggesting a
            conspiracy of
            > genocide just because the statistics lean toward the black. The
            practice is
            > worldwide and crosses all racial and class boundaries. Some cultures,
            > though, accept this barbaric approach to birth control more than others.
            >
            > Bill Ross
          • Bill Ross
            Regardless of whether or not the founder of |Planned Parenthood was a rasist, the abortion is not mandatory and is, I believe, more effectively
            Message 5 of 19 , Jun 1, 2005
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              <Bill>
              Regardless of whether or not the founder of |Planned Parenthood was a
              rasist, the abortion is not mandatory and is, I believe, more effectively
              reducing the net population of whites than blacks,.

              Bill Ross
            • Rolaant McKenzie
              The Nazi death camps were not mandatory, yet people chose to construct them and use them to involuntarily murder millions of innocent people. Abortuaries are
              Message 6 of 19 , Jun 6, 2005
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                The Nazi death camps were not mandatory, yet people chose to construct them
                and use them to involuntarily murder millions of innocent people.

                Abortuaries are not mandatory, yet people choose to construct them and use
                them to involuntarily murder millions of babies.

                An aspect of racism is to dehumanize a population whose destruction or
                subjugation is desired by another group. This was certainly true with the
                millions of Jews, Gypsies, and others murdered by Nazi Germany during World
                War II. And it is certainly true with the millions of babies murdered daily
                by the thousands in the United States.

                Rolaant

                -----Original Message-----
                From: apologetics@yahoogroups.com [mailto:apologetics@yahoogroups.com] On
                Behalf Of Bill Ross
                Sent: Wednesday, June 01, 2005 23:33
                To: apologetics@yahoogroups.com
                Subject: RE: [apologetics and theology] Re: Black Genocide and Political
                Correctness


                <Bill>
                Regardless of whether or not the founder of |Planned Parenthood was a
                rasist, the abortion is not mandatory and is, I believe, more effectively
                reducing the net population of whites than blacks,.

                Bill Ross
              • Bill Ross
                ... If that were true (and see a doctor if you truly believe this), then 6 million Jews committed assisted suicide. Bill Ross
                Message 7 of 19 , Jun 6, 2005
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                  <Rolaant>
                  >>...The Nazi death camps were not mandatory...

                  <Bill>
                  If that were true (and see a doctor if you truly believe this), then 6
                  million Jews committed assisted suicide.

                  Bill Ross
                • Rolaant McKenzie
                  Bill, What I meant by this was that the Nazi regime voluntarily set these death camps up. The Jews that died in them were deemed subhuman by the Nazis and
                  Message 8 of 19 , Jun 6, 2005
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                    Bill,

                    What I meant by this was that the Nazi regime voluntarily set these death
                    camps up. The Jews that died in them were deemed subhuman by the Nazis and
                    condemned involuntarily to death. I thought I made this clear in my previous
                    statement that you largely left out here.

                    Rolaant


                    -----Original Message-----
                    From: Bill Ross [mailto:BillRoss@...]
                    Sent: Monday, June 06, 2005 17:57
                    To: apologetics@yahoogroups.com
                    Subject: RE: [apologetics and theology] Re: Black Genocide and Political
                    Correctness


                    <Rolaant>
                    >>...The Nazi death camps were not mandatory...

                    <Bill>
                    If that were true (and see a doctor if you truly believe this), then 6
                    million Jews committed assisted suicide.

                    Bill Ross
                  • Bill Ross
                    ... camps up. The Jews that died in them were deemed subhuman by the Nazis and condemned involuntarily to death. I thought I made this clear in my
                    Message 9 of 19 , Jun 7, 2005
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                      <Rolaan>
                      >>What I meant by this was that the Nazi regime voluntarily set these death
                      camps up. The Jews that died in them were deemed subhuman by the Nazis and
                      condemned involuntarily to death. I thought I made this clear in my previous
                      statement that you largely left out here.

                      <Bill>
                      The volition of the Nazi regime is not in question. The question is, is it a
                      relevant comparison to abortion clinics, since no one is forcing anyone to
                      abort. It is a legally protected right but not a legally enforced choice.

                      Bill Ross
                    • Rolaant McKenzie
                      Actually, the comparison is quite relevant since abortion involves the dehumanization of a group of people unable to protect themselves from state-sponsored
                      Message 10 of 19 , Jun 7, 2005
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                        Actually, the comparison is quite relevant since abortion involves the
                        dehumanization of a group of people unable to protect themselves from
                        state-sponsored mass murder. Making something legal does not make it morally
                        right. The enslavement of black people was legal in the United States for
                        more than 100 years, but it was not morally right. the Nazis made it legal
                        to send Jews and others to the death camps, but that was not morally right.
                        Not everyone had to own slaves in the Unites States, and not everyone had to
                        send Jews to the death camps.

                        Rolaant


                        -----Original Message-----
                        From: Bill Ross [mailto:BillRoss@...]
                        Sent: Tuesday, June 07, 2005 09:27
                        To: apologetics@yahoogroups.com
                        Subject: RE: [apologetics and theology] Re: Black Genocide and Political
                        Correctness


                        <Rolaan>
                        >>What I meant by this was that the Nazi regime voluntarily set these
                        >>death
                        camps up. The Jews that died in them were deemed subhuman by the Nazis and
                        condemned involuntarily to death. I thought I made this clear in my previous
                        statement that you largely left out here.

                        <Bill>
                        The volition of the Nazi regime is not in question. The question is, is it a
                        relevant comparison to abortion clinics, since no one is forcing anyone to
                        abort. It is a legally protected right but not a legally enforced choice.

                        Bill Ross
                      • Dana
                        the unborn child has no more choice than the jew in germany had ... these death ... Nazis and ... previous ... is it a ... anyone to ... choice.
                        Message 11 of 19 , Jun 7, 2005
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                          the unborn child has no more choice than the jew in germany had

                          --- In apologetics@yahoogroups.com, "Bill Ross" <BillRoss@n...> wrote:
                          > <Rolaan>
                          > >>What I meant by this was that the Nazi regime voluntarily set
                          these death
                          > camps up. The Jews that died in them were deemed subhuman by the
                          Nazis and
                          > condemned involuntarily to death. I thought I made this clear in my
                          previous
                          > statement that you largely left out here.
                          >
                          > <Bill>
                          > The volition of the Nazi regime is not in question. The question is,
                          is it a
                          > relevant comparison to abortion clinics, since no one is forcing
                          anyone to
                          > abort. It is a legally protected right but not a legally enforced
                          choice.
                          >
                          > Bill Ross
                        • Y'shuaborn
                          Shalom, In my opinion, abortion in this country is comparative to the Nazi Holocaust in that it is directed against the unborn as the National Socialist
                          Message 12 of 19 , Jun 8, 2005
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                            Shalom,
                            In my opinion, abortion in this country is comparative to the Nazi
                            Holocaust in that it is directed against the unborn as the National
                            Socialist directed their murderous energies aginst Jews, Christians,
                            Sodomites, etc. I fail to see how the decision by the Nazis or the women
                            to commit murder factors into the objects against which the holocaust is
                            directed.

                            BillRoss@... wrote:

                            > <Rolaan>
                            > >>What I meant by this was that the Nazi regime voluntarily set these
                            > death
                            > camps up. The Jews that died in them were deemed subhuman by the Nazis and
                            > condemned involuntarily to death. I thought I made this clear in my
                            > previous
                            > statement that you largely left out here.
                            >
                            > <Bill>
                            > The volition of the Nazi regime is not in question. The question is,
                            > is it a
                            > relevant comparison to abortion clinics, since no one is forcing anyone to
                            > abort. It is a legally protected right but not a legally enforced choice.
                            >
                            > Bill Ross



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