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27614Re: [apologetics and theology] "Age of accountablity"

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  • Jozinky
    Mar 22 7:43 PM
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      On 3/22/2014 3:13 PM, yielded777@... wrote:
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      > n 3/20/2014 6:25 PM, yielded777@... wrote:
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      > >
      >
      > >
      >
      > > **JIMBO:I do see that scripture (Paul) states that sin was in the
      >
      > > world but that it is not imputed or charged where there is no law:
      >
      > >
      >
      > >
      >
      > > Rom 5:12-13
      >
      > > Therefore, just as through one man sin entered the world, and death
      >
      > > through sin, and thus death spread to all men, because all sinned —
      >
      > > 13 (For until the law sin was in the world, but sin is not imputed
      >
      > > when there is no law.
      >
      > > NKJV
      >
      > >
      >
      > ........
      >
      > Yes it says that doesn't it. Does that mean there were some folks born
      >
      > sinless?
      >
      > **JIMBO:That, in my estimation, is the $64,000 question.IF we look at
      > Ezekiel 18 that answer might have to be yes:
      >
      > Ezek 18:1-5
      >
      > The word of the Lord came to me again, saying, *2***"What do you mean
      > when you use this proverb concerning the land of Israel, saying:
      >
      > 'The fathers have eaten sour grapes,
      >
      > And the children's teeth are set on edge'?
      >
      > *3***"/As /I live," says the Lord God , "you shall no longer use this
      > proverb in Israel.
      >
      > *4***"Behold, all souls are Mine;
      >
      > The soul of the father
      >
      > As well as the soul of the son is Mine;
      >
      > The soul who sins shall die.
      >
      > *5***
      >
      > *NKJV*
      >
      > Ezek 18:19-20
      >
      > Yet you say, 'Why should the son not bear the guilt of the father?'
      > Because the son has done what is lawful and right, and has kept all My
      > statutes and observed them, he shall surely live. *20***The soul who
      > sins shall die. The son shall not bear the guilt of the father, nor
      > the father bear the guilt of the son. The righteousness of the
      > righteous shall be upon himself, and the wickedness of the wicked
      > shall be upon himself.
      >
      > NKJV
      >
      ..........
      None of the vss say any 1 is sinless.
      ..........
      >
      > IF we interpret these texts in the traditional way then the answer
      > would have to be no:
      >
      ...........
      Then let's do so. For that would agree with lots of other passages that
      show all men born under sin and therefore under wrath & condemnation.
      John 3... Psalm 14. Romans 3 E. G.
      ............
      ........
      >
      > Ex 20:5-6
      >
      > hall not bow down to them nor serve them. For I, the Lord your God,
      > /am /a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the
      > children to the third and fourth /generations /of those who hate Me, *6***
      >
      > *NKJV*
      >
      > Ps 51:4-5
      >
      > Against thee, thee only, have I sinned, and done this evil in thy
      > sight: that thou mightest be justified when thou speakest, and be
      > clear when thou judgest.
      >
      > *5***Behold, I was shapen in iniquity; and in sin did my mother
      > conceive me.
      >
      > KJV
      >
      > A challenge indeed.
      >
      > ...........
      >
      > >
      >
      > >
      >
      > > It might be that Paul alludes to the allusive age of accountability in
      >
      > > the following:
      >
      > >
      >
      > > Rom 7:9-10
      >
      > > I was alive once without the law, but when the commandment came, sin
      >
      > > revived and I died. 10 And the commandment, which was to bring life, I
      >
      > > found to bring death.
      >
      > > NKJV
      >
      ..........
      Hey it might be that I'm horribly handsome... er.. no might bes about
      it. Me is!! 8^)
      .........
      >
      > >
      >
      > .........
      >
      > Nothing there about an age of accountability.
      >
      > .........
      >
      > **JIMBO:Of course there is not anything specific in an allusion.If it
      > is an allusion was the point.The question to be asked in my mind is
      > what was the point at which the law “the commandment CAME.”Certsainly
      > Paul was born under the law.It was already established such that his
      > statement seems to mean that when the law “came” to him.
      >
      .........
      See Romans 2. All are judged in sin... with or without the law. If they
      are without it then they are a law unto themselves .
      ........
      >
      > >
      >
      > > We know that the law pre-existed Paul so he must be speaking about his
      >
      > > early days of innocense before he was held accountable of right and
      >
      > > wrong.
      >
      > >
      >
      > ...........
      >
      > He must????
      >
      > **JIMBO:Shall we simply close off intellect or reason in the
      > evaluation of these issues?
      >
      ...........
      Y wood N E 1 wanna do that?
      ........
      >
      > It is not my intent to be dogmatic in this regard – just pursuing
      > understanding.
      >
      ........
      Oh ok. But I -am- dogmatic in saying that all men are conceived and
      born in sin and are therefore condemned. It's the,,, as it were...
      default position. That makes the issue of "age of accountability" a
      non-issue... Biblical speaking.
      .........
      >
      > I won’t summarily dismiss reason or query.You??
      >
      .........
      Knot I sed ye duck... or in Jamaica,,.. No-me t'all mon!
      .......
      >
      > Yes, I say “he must. . .”Do you have an alternate view?
      >
      ..........
      Yes. All that you said minus the "days of innocense before he was held
      accountable of right and

      wrong" because all men are born guilty.. by default. both Jesus and Paul
      said it. John 3 / Romans 3.
      ............

      > ......
      >
      > >
      >
      > > When he was introudced to the law he found that he had been sinning
      >
      > > all along perhaps.
      >
      ..........
      Yeah I would agree there.
      ........
      >
      > >
      >
      > ..........
      >
      > Correct... Romans 7
      >
      > Ro 7:9 For I was alive without the law once. But when the commandment
      >
      > came, sin revived and I died.
      >
      > Also the fact that death reigned "without the law" shows that sin was
      >
      > still very real.
      >
      > Ro 5:14 Nevertheless death reigned from Adam until Moses, even over
      >
      > them that had not sinned after the likeness of Adam’s transgression, who
      >
      > is a figure of him that was to come.
      >
      > Yah!
      >
      > James... [Jimbo is ok too]
      >
      > .....
      >
      > **JIMBO:I don’t follow this last statement – Are you James also?
      >
      ........
      Yes. Me full name is James Joseph Kirby. /Alias Jozinky/Looie and some
      folks use Jimbo.

      Hand;
      James
      .........
      >
      > >
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      > >
      >
      > >
      >
      >

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