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Re: [aperture] Re: Graphics card frustration and 1.1.1 - new member

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  • Stroller
    ... But the question is clearly of how much I want to spend on a graphics card _right now_. I really want an Intel PowerMac, and don t think I ll be able to
    Message 1 of 22 , May 8, 2006
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      On 8 May 2006, at 1:51, Douglas Urner wrote:

      > On 8 May 2006, at 04:48, Stroller wrote:
      >
      >> I have a dual 1.8 G5 with 3gig of RAM and the ATI Radeon 9600 XT
      >> video card, and the worst thing is straightening images. I have to
      >> click on the image, move the pointer and then wait seconds to see the
      >> image rotate. ...Honestly, at this, Aperture makes my G5
      >> feel like a 486! I have not felt like I had a computer this under-
      >> powered in nearly a decade.
      >
      > This is a video card issue. If you had a more capable card the image
      > transformations would execute there and I think you'd be much happier.

      I am aware of this. As I wrote:

      >> I notice that when I'm waiting for Aperture to perform these tasks
      >> the CPU & memory usage in Activity Monitor is quite reasonable -
      >> Safari often is more demanding when it has a few windows open! - so
      >> the problem is surely with the graphics card.

      But the question is clearly of how much I want to spend on a graphics
      card _right now_. I really want an Intel PowerMac, and don't think
      I'll be able to wait long once they're released. I don't see much
      point in spending much money on a graphics card which I'll have to
      dispose of in only a few months, but I guess if I can find a cheap
      enough upgrade (once I've got my lazy arse through this month's slow
      cash-flow) then I'll go for it.

      Stroller.
    • Thomas Tukker
      AGP, I have an older dual proc 2.0 G5. I bought it on-line, its a little over priced in Europe but it allows me to run Aperture without any problems and I have
      Message 2 of 22 , May 8, 2006
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        AGP, I have an older dual proc 2.0 G5.
        I bought it on-line, its a little over priced in Europe but it allows
        me to run Aperture without any problems and I have enjoyed playing
        Call of Duty, cant wait for part 2 to come out.. :))

        Best,

        Thomas

        --- In aperture@yahoogroups.com, "Yann Nicolas" <yannster@...> wrote:
        >
        > Thomas, which interface is the X800XT using? AGP or PCI-X? If AGP,
        where
        > did you find it?
        >
        > I have a dual-2G as well with an ATI 9800 Pro 128MB (AGP) and the
        > performance is so-so. It's much more usable on my MBP.
        >
        > On 5/8/06, Thomas Tukker <thomastukker@...> wrote:
        > >
        > > Sorry but your video card is a huge difference with mine, which might
        > > be the difference.
        > > I go through shoots like nothing else when using Aperture and of
        > > course I have Lightroom too but it just doesnt compare at all.
        > > I use Aperture 90% of the time, rest is done in Photoshop if I need to
        > > do retouching.
        > > The power of Aperture for me is the standard RAW conversion, it is
        > > just drop dead gorgeous compared to any other RAW convertrer.
        > >
        > > Best,
        > >
        > > Thomas
        > > http://www.thomastukker.com
        > >
        > >
        > > --- In aperture@yahoogroups.com, Stroller <strolls_uk@> wrote:
        > > >
        > > >
        > > > On 8 May 2006, at 10:22, Thomas Tukker wrote:
        > > >
        > > > > For me 1.1.1 works great, no problems at all. My system is an
        older G5
        > > > > dual 2.0 with a X800XT 256mb card and 3.5GB of RAM.
        > > >
        > > > I tried Aperture 1.1.1 for the first time last night, having
        switched
        > > > from Aperture 1.0 when Lightroom Beta 1 came out.
        > > >
        > > > I have a dual 1.8 G5 with 3gig of RAM and the ATI Radeon 9600 XT
        > > > video card, and the worst thing is straightening images. I have to
        > > > click on the image, move the pointer and then wait seconds to
        see the
        > > > image rotate. If I get impatient I eventually find the image see-
        > > > sawing clockwise & anti-clockwise as it tries to follow my movements
        > > > with several seconds' of lag. Honestly, at this, Aperture makes
        my G5
        > > > feel like a 486! I have not felt like I had a computer this under-
        > > > powered in nearly a decade.
        > > >
        > > > Other functions are not so snappy, but still usable - when I was
        > > > trying the auto-levels buttons I thought initially they made no
        > > > visible difference to the image. Then a few seconds later the image
        > > > would update to reflect the changes. That's a lot more manageable
        > > > than the rotation problem, tho', because the delay is _after_ the
        > > > button click, rather than _while_ I'm holding the pointer.
        > > >
        > > > I notice that when I'm waiting for Aperture to perform these tasks
        > > > the CPU & memory usage in Activity Monitor is quite reasonable -
        > > > Safari often is more demanding when it has a few windows open! - so
        > > > the problem is surely with the graphics card.
        > > >
        > > > I'd really like to try Aperture properly at full speed, because
        right
        > > > now I'm not getting along with it at all - Aperture's controls seem
        > > > far more complicated & less intuitive than those of Lightroom. I can
        > > > open Lightroom, make my changes & in only a couple of minutes
        have an
        > > > image that I'm happy with - right now this is usually impossible for
        > > > me with Aperture. Hopefully at full speed I would get the
        opportunity
        > > > to actually learn Aperture & appreciate it.
        > > >
        > > > The reason I moved back from Lightroom to Aperture is that Lightroom
        > > > does some stuff in its library that I'm not happy about. In ~/
        > > > Lightroom/Photos I have a number of directories, each named for one
        > > > of my projects (or "shoots" as Lightroom calls them); I like this
        > > > "open" approach to the library, but not enough to forgive its
        > > > failings. I import from my 350D using the Canon utility, which dumps
        > > > all the images in a folder named "2006_05_08"; when I then import
        > > > into Lightroom the shoot name will default to "2006_05_08" and a
        > > > folder will be created in Lightroom's library by this name. If I
        > > > rename the shoot in Lightroom, the folder name in the Library
        remains
        > > > unchanged however, and if I transfer the images to another shoot
        then
        > > > I find that the empty directory remains in the Lightroom library. So
        > > > the upshot of this is that after a dozen or two imports I am unable
        > > > to accurately locate images in the library based on the "shoot" in
        > > > which they're located in Lightroom, even though it would appear at
        > > > first glance that I should be able to do so. So at the end of
        the day
        > > > I tend to prefer Aperture's closed library which doesn't try to fool
        > > > me into thinking I should be able to determine where it's keeping
        > > > things.
        > > >
        > > > Other things I prefer about Aperture are its ability to handle dual-
        > > > screens so well and its stacks feature. Stacks just seems to be an
        > > > entirely logical way of working.
        > > >
        > > > Undoubtedly Lightroom will improve with later releases, and I'm
        > > > blaming neither Apple nor Adobe for my annoyances - they're both
        > > > trying to produce innovative software in an untested market segment
        > > > and it's obvious that both products are improving rapidly. It's just
        > > > frustrating being a user who wants a tool he can use _now_. If I
        > > > wasn't new to digital photography in January then I'd probably
        have a
        > > > workflow already established, probably involving Finder or Bridge &
        > > > Photoshop; if had a workflow like that established for some time
        then
        > > > - considering my current hardware - there would be no reason for me
        > > > to change it.
        > > >
        > > > Right now, I'm dying for the release of the Intel PowrMacs - I don't
        > > > want to spend money on a graphics card for this machine when I hope
        > > > the Intel PowerMac release will be so soon. I play games
        > > > occasionally, would do so more if I were able to boot into XP, and
        > > > also work with XP for my job quite a lot, so the upgrade might
        make a
        > > > lot of sense. This depends on price, of course, and there's a bit of
        > > > me that says "wait until the second generation Intel PowerMacs as
        > > > they'll be cheaper", but I really don't want to spend a lot of money
        > > > on a graphics card for a machine I really want to replace within
        a year.
        > > >
        > > > For those of you concerned about the StrangeDogs cards then I advise
        > > > you not to be. I have my beefs with those guys but they seem to be
        > > > responsible enough to ensure that the drivers for the cards they
        sell
        > > > on eBay are mature enough for consumer use. At the end of the day,
        > > > fitting an incompatible graphics card is not going to toast your
        > > > computer and the worst case scenario is that that the card is buggy
        > > > or doesn't work with OS X quite as you anticipated. In this case you
        > > > could easily fit the card in a PeeCee, flash it back to the original
        > > > firmware and you have a card you can resell to a PeeCee user for 75%
        > > > of what you paid for it. Yes, this 25% is a "risk" but betting
        25% of
        > > > a couple of hundred dollars against the retail price of a
        top-of-the-
        > > > range Apple-certified cost is worthwhile, IMO.
        > > >
        > > > Stroller.
        > > >
        > >
        > >
        > >
        > >
        > >
        > >
        > >
        > > SPONSORED LINKS
        > > Image processing
        software<http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?t=ms&k=Image+processing+software&w1=Image+processing+software&w2=Image+processing&w3=Digital+image+processing&w4=Image+processing+system&w5=Mentor+graphics&w6=Embossed+graphics&c=6&s=156&.sig=ae8cLmwwxiP1GfjG845zng>
        Image
        > >
        processing<http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?t=ms&k=Image+processing&w1=Image+processing+software&w2=Image+processing&w3=Digital+image+processing&w4=Image+processing+system&w5=Mentor+graphics&w6=Embossed+graphics&c=6&s=156&.sig=tBjp5Jfe7I2QDWxp5KZysA>
        Digital
        > > image
        processing<http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?t=ms&k=Digital+image+processing&w1=Image+processing+software&w2=Image+processing&w3=Digital+image+processing&w4=Image+processing+system&w5=Mentor+graphics&w6=Embossed+graphics&c=6&s=156&.sig=33TZxc9cpXLfDYRoTa61Vg>
        Image
        > > processing
        system<http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?t=ms&k=Image+processing+system&w1=Image+processing+software&w2=Image+processing&w3=Digital+image+processing&w4=Image+processing+system&w5=Mentor+graphics&w6=Embossed+graphics&c=6&s=156&.sig=KM4yUaDC3OyxYv3A5YfVzQ>
        Mentor
        > >
        graphics<http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?t=ms&k=Mentor+graphics&w1=Image+processing+software&w2=Image+processing&w3=Digital+image+processing&w4=Image+processing+system&w5=Mentor+graphics&w6=Embossed+graphics&c=6&s=156&.sig=2D_TffNAwje79Z1-TQxpzA>
        Embossed
        > >
        graphics<http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?t=ms&k=Embossed+graphics&w1=Image+processing+software&w2=Image+processing&w3=Digital+image+processing&w4=Image+processing+system&w5=Mentor+graphics&w6=Embossed+graphics&c=6&s=156&.sig=da4XiYHEiztlNNXE86zFtQ>
        > > ------------------------------
        > > YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS
        > >
        > >
        > > - Visit your group
        "aperture<http://groups.yahoo.com/group/aperture>"
        > > on the web.
        > >
        > > - To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
        > >
        aperture-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com<aperture-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com?subject=Unsubscribe>
        > >
        > > - Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of
        > > Service <http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/>.
        > >
        > >
        > > ------------------------------
        > >
        >
        >
        >
        > --
        > /yann
        >
      • Yann Nicolas
        OK, so the ATI X800 XT seems to be the best option for anyone with an AGP dual-G5 and it does seem to be quite an increase over the 9800 Pro:
        Message 3 of 22 , May 8, 2006
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          OK, so the ATI X800 XT seems to be the best option for anyone with an AGP dual-G5 and it does seem to be quite an increase over the 9800 Pro:

          http://tinyurl.com/gm4d3

          and

          http://tinyurl.com/zc6uo

          ...but it's about $350-$400.  Wait for the next Power Macs (or MacTower Pro) or get one of these?

          Hmm...

          /y

          On 5/8/06, Thomas Tukker <thomastukker@...> wrote:
          AGP, I have an older dual proc 2.0 G5.
          I bought it on-line, its a little over priced in Europe but it allows
          me to run Aperture without any problems and I have enjoyed playing
          Call of Duty, cant wait for part 2 to come out.. :))


          [...]

        • Thomas Tukker
          I shoot to make money, so I dont have the luxury to wait. If I can increase my efficiency by investing in Aperture and a new video card, than thats justified
          Message 4 of 22 , May 9, 2006
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            I shoot to make money, so I dont have the luxury to wait. If I can
            increase my efficiency by investing in Aperture and a new video card,
            than thats justified for me.
            It turned out to be a good decision, I use Aperture daily and it helps
            me more than any other program can with my daily tasks.

            I will buy a new tower when it comes out and I think this video card
            will make my system more attractive on the used market.

            I bought the card for 500euros when I lived in Milano btw....so you
            can feel very happy with $350...!

            Best,

            Thomas


            >
            > ...but it's about $350-$400. Wait for the next Power Macs (or
            MacTower Pro)
            > or get one of these?
            >
            > Hmm...
            >
            > /y
            >
            > On 5/8/06, Thomas Tukker <thomastukker@...> wrote:
            > >
            > > AGP, I have an older dual proc 2.0 G5.
            > > I bought it on-line, its a little over priced in Europe but it allows
            > > me to run Aperture without any problems and I have enjoyed playing
            > > Call of Duty, cant wait for part 2 to come out.. :))
            > >
            >
            >
            > [...]
            >
          • Debbi
            Do any of you use it in Aperture and it so, how do you think it compares to Photoshop or another plug-in? I usually use Greg Gorman s method in Photoshop, but
            Message 5 of 22 , May 10, 2006
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              Do any of you use it in Aperture and it so, how do you think it
              compares to Photoshop or another plug-in? I usually use Greg Gorman's
              method in Photoshop, but I have never actually printed anything with
              it.
              Debbi
              --
              Debbi in California
              http://www.pbase.com/debbi

              Whoever said 'money can't buy happiness' never met a camera they loved!
            • Debbi
              You all are pretty quiet...... Have any of you tried the Kodak print services via Aperture? I usually use WHCC and just wondered if Kodak was any good Debbi --
              Message 6 of 22 , May 13, 2006
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                You all are pretty quiet......

                Have any of you tried the Kodak print services via Aperture? I
                usually use WHCC and just wondered if Kodak was any good
                Debbi
                --
                Debbi in California
                http://www.pbase.com/debbi

                Whoever said 'money can't buy happiness' never met a camera they loved!
              • Alejandro (Alex) Rodriguez
                I have and I think it sucks compared to WHCC. The ONLY plus is how easy it is to use. Alex
                Message 7 of 22 , May 13, 2006
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                  I have and I think it sucks compared to WHCC. The ONLY plus is how
                  easy it is to use.

                  Alex

                  On May 13, 2006, at 4:58 PM, Debbi wrote:

                  > You all are pretty quiet......
                  >
                  > Have any of you tried the Kodak print services via Aperture? I
                  > usually use WHCC and just wondered if Kodak was any good
                  > Debbi
                  > --
                  > Debbi in California
                  > http://www.pbase.com/debbi
                  >
                  > Whoever said 'money can't buy happiness' never met a camera they
                  > loved!
                  >
                  >
                  > ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor --------------------
                  > ~-->
                  > Protect your PC from spy ware with award winning anti spy
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                  > http://us.click.yahoo.com/97bhrC/LGxNAA/yQLSAA/e4wwlB/TM
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                • Alejandro (Alex) Rodriguez
                  On my machine the results look good however I will know how the printed images look later this week, I just sent a batch of images to white house for printing.
                  Message 8 of 22 , May 13, 2006
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                    On my machine the results look good however I will know how the
                    printed images look later this week, I just sent a batch of images to
                    white house for printing.

                    Alex

                    On May 10, 2006, at 2:58 PM, Debbi wrote:

                    > Do any of you use it in Aperture and it so, how do you think it
                    > compares to Photoshop or another plug-in? I usually use Greg Gorman's
                    > method in Photoshop, but I have never actually printed anything with
                    > it.
                    > Debbi
                    > --
                    > Debbi in California
                    > http://www.pbase.com/debbi
                    >
                    > Whoever said 'money can't buy happiness' never met a camera they
                    > loved!
                  • Debbi
                    Thank Alex, on both answers! Debbi ... -- Debbi in California http://www.pbase.com/debbi Whoever said money can t buy happiness never met a camera they
                    Message 9 of 22 , May 13, 2006
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                      Thank Alex, on both answers!
                      Debbi



                      >On my machine the results look good however I will know how the
                      >printed images look later this week, I just sent a batch of images to
                      >white house for printing.
                      >
                      >Alex
                      >
                      >On May 10, 2006, at 2:58 PM, Debbi wrote:
                      >
                      >> Do any of you use it in Aperture and it so, how do you think it
                      >> compares to Photoshop or another plug-in? I usually use Greg Gorman's
                      >> method in Photoshop, but I have never actually printed anything with
                      >> it.
                      > > Debbi

                      --
                      Debbi in California
                      http://www.pbase.com/debbi

                      Whoever said 'money can't buy happiness' never met a camera they loved!
                    • Ronald Leppke
                      ... Ron Ronald D. Leppke, Ed.D. RDL Associates 17 inch 1.67 GHz G4 PowerBook 1.5 GB DDR SDRAM Mac OS X 10.4.6, Build 8l127 (Tiger) Safari Version 2.0.3
                      Message 10 of 22 , May 15, 2006
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                        I just now received my coupon request response:


                        Thank you for participating in the Aperture Customer Program promotion.  Attached is your e-coupon code, valid at the online Apple Store  www.apple.com/smallbusiness/store.

                        Ron


                        Ronald D. Leppke, Ed.D.

                        RDL Associates

                        17 inch 1.67 GHz G4 PowerBook

                        1.5 GB DDR SDRAM 

                        Mac OS X 10.4.6, Build 8l127  (Tiger)

                        Safari Version 2.0.3 (417.9.3)


                        lepprd@...    




                      • Debbi
                        Thanks for sharing it Ron. What do you have your eye on? Debbi ... -- Debbi in California http://www.pbase.com/debbi Whoever said money can t buy happiness
                        Message 11 of 22 , May 15, 2006
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                          Re: [aperture] Coupon

                          Thanks for sharing it Ron. What do you have your eye on?
                          Debbi


                          I just now received my coupon request response:


                          Thank you for participating in the Aperture Customer Program promotion.  Attached is your e-coupon code, valid at the online Apple Store  www.apple.com/smallbusiness/store.

                          Ron


                          Ronald D. Leppke, Ed.D.
                          RDL Associates
                          17 inch 1.67 GHz G4 PowerBook
                          1.5 GB DDR SDRAM 
                          Mac OS X 10.4.6, Build 8l127  (Tiger)
                          Safari Version 2.0.3 (417.9.3)

                          lepprd@...   

                          -- 
                          
                          Debbi in California
                          http://www.pbase.com/debbi

                          Whoever said 'money can't buy happiness' never met a camera they loved!
                        • David Taylor
                          Mine just came too! I just went and left about a pint of drool all over a 17 MacBook Pro at our local Apple store. Guess I have until September 30, 2006 when
                          Message 12 of 22 , May 15, 2006
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                            Mine just came too!

                            I just went and left about a pint of drool all over a 17" MacBook Pro
                            at our local Apple store. Guess I have until September 30, 2006 when
                            the coupon expires to summon up the courage. I wish the Adobe apps
                            were already Universal.

                            David
                            --
                            David W. Taylor, Detayls
                            www.detayls.com


                            On May 15, 2006, at 3:44 PM, Debbi wrote:

                            >
                            > Thanks for sharing it Ron. What do you have your eye on?
                            > Debbi
                            >
                            >
                            >> I just now received my coupon request response:
                            >>
                            >>>
                            >>> Thank you for participating in the Aperture Customer Program
                            >>> promotion. Attached is your e-coupon code, valid at the online
                            >>> Apple Store www.apple.com/smallbusiness/store.
                            >>
                            >> Ron
                            >>
                            >>
                            >> Ronald D. Leppke, Ed.D.
                            >> RDL Associates
                            >> 17 inch 1.67 GHz G4 PowerBook
                            >> 1.5 GB DDR SDRAM
                            >> Mac OS X 10.4.6, Build 8l127 (Tiger)
                            >> Safari Version 2.0.3 (417.9.3)
                            >>
                            >> lepprd@...
                            >
                            > --
                            > Debbi in California
                            > http://www.pbase.com/debbi
                            >
                            > Whoever said 'money can't buy happiness' never met a camera they
                            > loved!
                            >
                            > YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS
                            >
                            > Visit your group "aperture" on the web.
                            >
                            > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
                            > aperture-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
                            >
                            > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
                            >
                            >
                          • Ronald Leppke
                            I was also at the Apple store looking at the 17 MBP. I am expecting to combine the coupon with the friends (empolyee) discount on the 17 MBP. I specifically
                            Message 13 of 22 , May 15, 2006
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                              I was also at the Apple store looking at the 17 MBP. I am expecting to combine the coupon with the "friends" (empolyee) discount on the 17 MBP. I specifically tested the two finger tap to get the contextual menu, i.e., a right click and it worked fine. The Apple store employee was not aware of this feature.


                              On May 15, 2006, at 6:07 PM, David Taylor wrote:

                              I just went and left about a pint of drool all over a 17" MacBook Pro  
                              at our local Apple store.

                              ...and, of course my 17 1.67 (below) is for sale

                              Ron


                              Ronald D. Leppke, Ed.D.

                              RDL Associates

                              17 inch 1.67 GHz G4 PowerBook

                              1.5 GB DDR SDRAM 

                              Mac OS X 10.4.6, Build 8l127  (Tiger)

                              Safari Version 2.0.3 (417.9.3)


                              lepprd@...    




                            • jimmy_yu
                              Ron, Does it say if it s possible to use the coupon in a store other than the regular apple.com store? I know with the ipod settlement coupon codes, you could
                              Message 14 of 22 , May 15, 2006
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                                Ron,

                                Does it say if it's possible to use the coupon in a store other than
                                the regular apple.com store? I know with the ipod settlement coupon
                                codes, you could only use it at the regular apple store (ie, no edu or
                                govt stores).

                                Jimmy

                                --- In aperture@yahoogroups.com, Ronald Leppke <lepprd@...> wrote:
                                >
                                > I was also at the Apple store looking at the 17 MBP. I am expecting
                                > to combine the coupon with the "friends" (empolyee) discount on the
                                > 17 MBP. I specifically tested the two finger tap to get the
                                > contextual menu, i.e., a right click and it worked fine. The Apple
                                > store employee was not aware of this feature.
                                >
                                >
                                > On May 15, 2006, at 6:07 PM, David Taylor wrote:
                                >
                                > > I just went and left about a pint of drool all over a 17" MacBook Pro
                                > > at our local Apple store.
                                >
                                > ...and, of course my 17 1.67 (below) is for sale
                                >
                                > Ron
                                >
                                >
                                > Ronald D. Leppke, Ed.D.
                                > RDL Associates
                                > 17 inch 1.67 GHz G4 PowerBook
                                > 1.5 GB DDR SDRAM
                                > Mac OS X 10.4.6, Build 8l127 (Tiger)
                                > Safari Version 2.0.3 (417.9.3)
                                >
                                > lepprd@...
                                >
                              • robert a. staehle
                                E-coupons are not redeemable on Apple Online Stores that serve institutions. The above is from the coupon I received today.
                                Message 15 of 22 , May 15, 2006
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                                  "E-coupons are not redeemable on Apple Online Stores that serve
                                  institutions."

                                  The above is from the coupon I received today.

                                  On May 15, 2006, at 9:15 PM, jimmy_yu wrote:

                                  > Ron,
                                  >
                                  > Does it say if it's possible to use the coupon in a store other than
                                  > the regular apple.com store? I know with the ipod settlement coupon
                                  > codes, you could only use it at the regular apple store (ie, no edu or
                                  > govt stores).
                                  >
                                  > Jimmy
                                  >
                                  > --- In aperture@yahoogroups.com, Ronald Leppke <lepprd@...> wrote:
                                  >>
                                  >> I was also at the Apple store looking at the 17 MBP. I am expecting
                                  >> to combine the coupon with the "friends" (empolyee) discount on the
                                  >> 17 MBP. I specifically tested the two finger tap to get the
                                  >> contextual menu, i.e., a right click and it worked fine. The Apple
                                  >> store employee was not aware of this feature.
                                  >>
                                  >>
                                  >> On May 15, 2006, at 6:07 PM, David Taylor wrote:
                                  >>
                                  >>> I just went and left about a pint of drool all over a 17" MacBook
                                  >>> Pro
                                  >>> at our local Apple store.
                                  >>
                                  >> ...and, of course my 17 1.67 (below) is for sale
                                  >>
                                  >> Ron
                                  >>
                                  >>
                                  >> Ronald D. Leppke, Ed.D.
                                  >> RDL Associates
                                  >> 17 inch 1.67 GHz G4 PowerBook
                                  >> 1.5 GB DDR SDRAM
                                  >> Mac OS X 10.4.6, Build 8l127 (Tiger)
                                  >> Safari Version 2.0.3 (417.9.3)
                                  >>
                                  >> lepprd@...
                                  >>
                                  >
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