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Graphics card frustration and 1.1.1 - new member

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  • mickstringer
    Hi everyone. I joined the group today so hello. I ve no doubt the subject of this post has been dealt with a lot but I thought I would add my voice to the
    Message 1 of 22 , May 7, 2006
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      Hi everyone. I joined the group today so hello.

      I've no doubt the subject of this post has been dealt with a lot but I
      thought I would add my voice to the chorus of frustration.

      I have had a dual core G5 for 5 months and the lack of PCI express
      upgrade graphics cards is behond a joke. At the time I bought the G5
      (bought in part to run Aperture) the 6600 card was on the recommended
      specification list (now removed) so the 7800GT didn't seem necessary. I
      did opt for the 256mb version of the 6600 for a bit more future
      proofing than the 128mb version.

      I am aware of the strangedogs flashed 7800GT but I am in the UK and
      don't see why I should take the risk given that it is up to Apple to
      sort this issue out. Also I have heard that 1.1 wasn't really optimised
      for the 7800GT anyway. Any better in 1.1.1?

      I would like to know what people's experience is with the 1.1.1
      upgrade. If anything it seems slower adjusting than 1.1. I have a Canon
      5D and shoot exclusively raw.

      I have a dual 2.0 G5 with 3GB memory. Aperture main library is on
      second internal hard drive.

      Thanks for looking.

      Mick
    • Alejandro (Alex) Rodriguez
      I am in the exact same situation. I purchased a new G5 to use Aperture. I was happy with my old dual processor G4 but when Aperture was released I figured it
      Message 2 of 22 , May 7, 2006
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        I am in the exact same situation. I purchased a new G5 to use
        Aperture. I was happy with my old dual processor G4 but when Aperture
        was released I figured it was time to upgrade. Like you I went ahead
        and upgraded to the 256 mb card thinking it would give me some room
        to grow. Now Apple has pulled this from under our feet. Not happy
        about this.

        Anyone have a high level contact at Apple? I am willing to buy a card
        to upgrade my system but this is not an "official" option at this time.

        Alex

        On May 7, 2006, at 7:31 AM, mickstringer wrote:

        > Hi everyone. I joined the group today so hello.
        >
        > I've no doubt the subject of this post has been dealt with a lot but I
        > thought I would add my voice to the chorus of frustration.
        >
        > I have had a dual core G5 for 5 months and the lack of PCI express
        > upgrade graphics cards is behond a joke. At the time I bought the G5
        > (bought in part to run Aperture) the 6600 card was on the recommended
        > specification list (now removed) so the 7800GT didn't seem
        > necessary. I
        > did opt for the 256mb version of the 6600 for a bit more future
        > proofing than the 128mb version.
        >
        > I am aware of the strangedogs flashed 7800GT but I am in the UK and
        > don't see why I should take the risk given that it is up to Apple to
        > sort this issue out. Also I have heard that 1.1 wasn't really
        > optimised
        > for the 7800GT anyway. Any better in 1.1.1?
        >
        > I would like to know what people's experience is with the 1.1.1
        > upgrade. If anything it seems slower adjusting than 1.1. I have a
        > Canon
        > 5D and shoot exclusively raw.
        >
        > I have a dual 2.0 G5 with 3GB memory. Aperture main library is on
        > second internal hard drive.
        >
        > Thanks for looking.
        >
        > Mick
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
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      • Thomas Tukker
        For me 1.1.1 works great, no problems at all. My system is an older G5 dual 2.0 with a X800XT 256mb card and 3.5GB of RAM. Best, Thomas
        Message 3 of 22 , May 8, 2006
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          For me 1.1.1 works great, no problems at all. My system is an older G5
          dual 2.0 with a X800XT 256mb card and 3.5GB of RAM.

          Best,

          Thomas

          --- In aperture@yahoogroups.com, "mickstringer" <mickstringer@...> wrote:
          >
          > Hi everyone. I joined the group today so hello.
          >
          > I've no doubt the subject of this post has been dealt with a lot but I
          > thought I would add my voice to the chorus of frustration.
          >
          > I have had a dual core G5 for 5 months and the lack of PCI express
          > upgrade graphics cards is behond a joke. At the time I bought the G5
          > (bought in part to run Aperture) the 6600 card was on the recommended
          > specification list (now removed) so the 7800GT didn't seem necessary. I
          > did opt for the 256mb version of the 6600 for a bit more future
          > proofing than the 128mb version.
          >
          > I am aware of the strangedogs flashed 7800GT but I am in the UK and
          > don't see why I should take the risk given that it is up to Apple to
          > sort this issue out. Also I have heard that 1.1 wasn't really optimised
          > for the 7800GT anyway. Any better in 1.1.1?
          >
          > I would like to know what people's experience is with the 1.1.1
          > upgrade. If anything it seems slower adjusting than 1.1. I have a Canon
          > 5D and shoot exclusively raw.
          >
          > I have a dual 2.0 G5 with 3GB memory. Aperture main library is on
          > second internal hard drive.
          >
          > Thanks for looking.
          >
          > Mick
          >
        • Stroller
          ... I tried Aperture 1.1.1 for the first time last night, having switched from Aperture 1.0 when Lightroom Beta 1 came out. I have a dual 1.8 G5 with 3gig of
          Message 4 of 22 , May 8, 2006
          • 0 Attachment
            On 8 May 2006, at 10:22, Thomas Tukker wrote:

            > For me 1.1.1 works great, no problems at all. My system is an older G5
            > dual 2.0 with a X800XT 256mb card and 3.5GB of RAM.

            I tried Aperture 1.1.1 for the first time last night, having switched
            from Aperture 1.0 when Lightroom Beta 1 came out.

            I have a dual 1.8 G5 with 3gig of RAM and the ATI Radeon 9600 XT
            video card, and the worst thing is straightening images. I have to
            click on the image, move the pointer and then wait seconds to see the
            image rotate. If I get impatient I eventually find the image see-
            sawing clockwise & anti-clockwise as it tries to follow my movements
            with several seconds' of lag. Honestly, at this, Aperture makes my G5
            feel like a 486! I have not felt like I had a computer this under-
            powered in nearly a decade.

            Other functions are not so snappy, but still usable - when I was
            trying the auto-levels buttons I thought initially they made no
            visible difference to the image. Then a few seconds later the image
            would update to reflect the changes. That's a lot more manageable
            than the rotation problem, tho', because the delay is _after_ the
            button click, rather than _while_ I'm holding the pointer.

            I notice that when I'm waiting for Aperture to perform these tasks
            the CPU & memory usage in Activity Monitor is quite reasonable -
            Safari often is more demanding when it has a few windows open! - so
            the problem is surely with the graphics card.

            I'd really like to try Aperture properly at full speed, because right
            now I'm not getting along with it at all - Aperture's controls seem
            far more complicated & less intuitive than those of Lightroom. I can
            open Lightroom, make my changes & in only a couple of minutes have an
            image that I'm happy with - right now this is usually impossible for
            me with Aperture. Hopefully at full speed I would get the opportunity
            to actually learn Aperture & appreciate it.

            The reason I moved back from Lightroom to Aperture is that Lightroom
            does some stuff in its library that I'm not happy about. In ~/
            Lightroom/Photos I have a number of directories, each named for one
            of my projects (or "shoots" as Lightroom calls them); I like this
            "open" approach to the library, but not enough to forgive its
            failings. I import from my 350D using the Canon utility, which dumps
            all the images in a folder named "2006_05_08"; when I then import
            into Lightroom the shoot name will default to "2006_05_08" and a
            folder will be created in Lightroom's library by this name. If I
            rename the shoot in Lightroom, the folder name in the Library remains
            unchanged however, and if I transfer the images to another shoot then
            I find that the empty directory remains in the Lightroom library. So
            the upshot of this is that after a dozen or two imports I am unable
            to accurately locate images in the library based on the "shoot" in
            which they're located in Lightroom, even though it would appear at
            first glance that I should be able to do so. So at the end of the day
            I tend to prefer Aperture's closed library which doesn't try to fool
            me into thinking I should be able to determine where it's keeping
            things.

            Other things I prefer about Aperture are its ability to handle dual-
            screens so well and its stacks feature. Stacks just seems to be an
            entirely logical way of working.

            Undoubtedly Lightroom will improve with later releases, and I'm
            blaming neither Apple nor Adobe for my annoyances - they're both
            trying to produce innovative software in an untested market segment
            and it's obvious that both products are improving rapidly. It's just
            frustrating being a user who wants a tool he can use _now_. If I
            wasn't new to digital photography in January then I'd probably have a
            workflow already established, probably involving Finder or Bridge &
            Photoshop; if had a workflow like that established for some time then
            - considering my current hardware - there would be no reason for me
            to change it.

            Right now, I'm dying for the release of the Intel PowrMacs - I don't
            want to spend money on a graphics card for this machine when I hope
            the Intel PowerMac release will be so soon. I play games
            occasionally, would do so more if I were able to boot into XP, and
            also work with XP for my job quite a lot, so the upgrade might make a
            lot of sense. This depends on price, of course, and there's a bit of
            me that says "wait until the second generation Intel PowerMacs as
            they'll be cheaper", but I really don't want to spend a lot of money
            on a graphics card for a machine I really want to replace within a year.

            For those of you concerned about the StrangeDogs cards then I advise
            you not to be. I have my beefs with those guys but they seem to be
            responsible enough to ensure that the drivers for the cards they sell
            on eBay are mature enough for consumer use. At the end of the day,
            fitting an incompatible graphics card is not going to toast your
            computer and the worst case scenario is that that the card is buggy
            or doesn't work with OS X quite as you anticipated. In this case you
            could easily fit the card in a PeeCee, flash it back to the original
            firmware and you have a card you can resell to a PeeCee user for 75%
            of what you paid for it. Yes, this 25% is a "risk" but betting 25% of
            a couple of hundred dollars against the retail price of a top-of-the-
            range Apple-certified cost is worthwhile, IMO.

            Stroller.
          • Douglas Urner
            ... This is a video card issue. If you had a more capable card the image transformations would execute there and I think you d be much happier. Doug
            Message 5 of 22 , May 8, 2006
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              On 8 May 2006, at 04:48, Stroller wrote:

              > I have a dual 1.8 G5 with 3gig of RAM and the ATI Radeon 9600 XT
              > video card, and the worst thing is straightening images. I have to
              > click on the image, move the pointer and then wait seconds to see the
              > image rotate. If I get impatient I eventually find the image see-
              > sawing clockwise & anti-clockwise as it tries to follow my movements
              > with several seconds' of lag. Honestly, at this, Aperture makes my G5
              > feel like a 486! I have not felt like I had a computer this under-
              > powered in nearly a decade.

              This is a video card issue. If you had a more capable card the image
              transformations would execute there and I think you'd be much happier.

              Doug
            • Stroller
              ... But the question is clearly of how much I want to spend on a graphics card _right now_. I really want an Intel PowerMac, and don t think I ll be able to
              Message 6 of 22 , May 8, 2006
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                On 8 May 2006, at 1:51, Douglas Urner wrote:

                > On 8 May 2006, at 04:48, Stroller wrote:
                >
                >> I have a dual 1.8 G5 with 3gig of RAM and the ATI Radeon 9600 XT
                >> video card, and the worst thing is straightening images. I have to
                >> click on the image, move the pointer and then wait seconds to see the
                >> image rotate. ...Honestly, at this, Aperture makes my G5
                >> feel like a 486! I have not felt like I had a computer this under-
                >> powered in nearly a decade.
                >
                > This is a video card issue. If you had a more capable card the image
                > transformations would execute there and I think you'd be much happier.

                I am aware of this. As I wrote:

                >> I notice that when I'm waiting for Aperture to perform these tasks
                >> the CPU & memory usage in Activity Monitor is quite reasonable -
                >> Safari often is more demanding when it has a few windows open! - so
                >> the problem is surely with the graphics card.

                But the question is clearly of how much I want to spend on a graphics
                card _right now_. I really want an Intel PowerMac, and don't think
                I'll be able to wait long once they're released. I don't see much
                point in spending much money on a graphics card which I'll have to
                dispose of in only a few months, but I guess if I can find a cheap
                enough upgrade (once I've got my lazy arse through this month's slow
                cash-flow) then I'll go for it.

                Stroller.
              • Thomas Tukker
                Sorry but your video card is a huge difference with mine, which might be the difference. I go through shoots like nothing else when using Aperture and of
                Message 7 of 22 , May 8, 2006
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                  Sorry but your video card is a huge difference with mine, which might
                  be the difference.
                  I go through shoots like nothing else when using Aperture and of
                  course I have Lightroom too but it just doesnt compare at all.
                  I use Aperture 90% of the time, rest is done in Photoshop if I need to
                  do retouching.
                  The power of Aperture for me is the standard RAW conversion, it is
                  just drop dead gorgeous compared to any other RAW convertrer.

                  Best,

                  Thomas
                  http://www.thomastukker.com

                  --- In aperture@yahoogroups.com, Stroller <strolls_uk@...> wrote:
                  >
                  >
                  > On 8 May 2006, at 10:22, Thomas Tukker wrote:
                  >
                  > > For me 1.1.1 works great, no problems at all. My system is an older G5
                  > > dual 2.0 with a X800XT 256mb card and 3.5GB of RAM.
                  >
                  > I tried Aperture 1.1.1 for the first time last night, having switched
                  > from Aperture 1.0 when Lightroom Beta 1 came out.
                  >
                  > I have a dual 1.8 G5 with 3gig of RAM and the ATI Radeon 9600 XT
                  > video card, and the worst thing is straightening images. I have to
                  > click on the image, move the pointer and then wait seconds to see the
                  > image rotate. If I get impatient I eventually find the image see-
                  > sawing clockwise & anti-clockwise as it tries to follow my movements
                  > with several seconds' of lag. Honestly, at this, Aperture makes my G5
                  > feel like a 486! I have not felt like I had a computer this under-
                  > powered in nearly a decade.
                  >
                  > Other functions are not so snappy, but still usable - when I was
                  > trying the auto-levels buttons I thought initially they made no
                  > visible difference to the image. Then a few seconds later the image
                  > would update to reflect the changes. That's a lot more manageable
                  > than the rotation problem, tho', because the delay is _after_ the
                  > button click, rather than _while_ I'm holding the pointer.
                  >
                  > I notice that when I'm waiting for Aperture to perform these tasks
                  > the CPU & memory usage in Activity Monitor is quite reasonable -
                  > Safari often is more demanding when it has a few windows open! - so
                  > the problem is surely with the graphics card.
                  >
                  > I'd really like to try Aperture properly at full speed, because right
                  > now I'm not getting along with it at all - Aperture's controls seem
                  > far more complicated & less intuitive than those of Lightroom. I can
                  > open Lightroom, make my changes & in only a couple of minutes have an
                  > image that I'm happy with - right now this is usually impossible for
                  > me with Aperture. Hopefully at full speed I would get the opportunity
                  > to actually learn Aperture & appreciate it.
                  >
                  > The reason I moved back from Lightroom to Aperture is that Lightroom
                  > does some stuff in its library that I'm not happy about. In ~/
                  > Lightroom/Photos I have a number of directories, each named for one
                  > of my projects (or "shoots" as Lightroom calls them); I like this
                  > "open" approach to the library, but not enough to forgive its
                  > failings. I import from my 350D using the Canon utility, which dumps
                  > all the images in a folder named "2006_05_08"; when I then import
                  > into Lightroom the shoot name will default to "2006_05_08" and a
                  > folder will be created in Lightroom's library by this name. If I
                  > rename the shoot in Lightroom, the folder name in the Library remains
                  > unchanged however, and if I transfer the images to another shoot then
                  > I find that the empty directory remains in the Lightroom library. So
                  > the upshot of this is that after a dozen or two imports I am unable
                  > to accurately locate images in the library based on the "shoot" in
                  > which they're located in Lightroom, even though it would appear at
                  > first glance that I should be able to do so. So at the end of the day
                  > I tend to prefer Aperture's closed library which doesn't try to fool
                  > me into thinking I should be able to determine where it's keeping
                  > things.
                  >
                  > Other things I prefer about Aperture are its ability to handle dual-
                  > screens so well and its stacks feature. Stacks just seems to be an
                  > entirely logical way of working.
                  >
                  > Undoubtedly Lightroom will improve with later releases, and I'm
                  > blaming neither Apple nor Adobe for my annoyances - they're both
                  > trying to produce innovative software in an untested market segment
                  > and it's obvious that both products are improving rapidly. It's just
                  > frustrating being a user who wants a tool he can use _now_. If I
                  > wasn't new to digital photography in January then I'd probably have a
                  > workflow already established, probably involving Finder or Bridge &
                  > Photoshop; if had a workflow like that established for some time then
                  > - considering my current hardware - there would be no reason for me
                  > to change it.
                  >
                  > Right now, I'm dying for the release of the Intel PowrMacs - I don't
                  > want to spend money on a graphics card for this machine when I hope
                  > the Intel PowerMac release will be so soon. I play games
                  > occasionally, would do so more if I were able to boot into XP, and
                  > also work with XP for my job quite a lot, so the upgrade might make a
                  > lot of sense. This depends on price, of course, and there's a bit of
                  > me that says "wait until the second generation Intel PowerMacs as
                  > they'll be cheaper", but I really don't want to spend a lot of money
                  > on a graphics card for a machine I really want to replace within a year.
                  >
                  > For those of you concerned about the StrangeDogs cards then I advise
                  > you not to be. I have my beefs with those guys but they seem to be
                  > responsible enough to ensure that the drivers for the cards they sell
                  > on eBay are mature enough for consumer use. At the end of the day,
                  > fitting an incompatible graphics card is not going to toast your
                  > computer and the worst case scenario is that that the card is buggy
                  > or doesn't work with OS X quite as you anticipated. In this case you
                  > could easily fit the card in a PeeCee, flash it back to the original
                  > firmware and you have a card you can resell to a PeeCee user for 75%
                  > of what you paid for it. Yes, this 25% is a "risk" but betting 25% of
                  > a couple of hundred dollars against the retail price of a top-of-the-
                  > range Apple-certified cost is worthwhile, IMO.
                  >
                  > Stroller.
                  >
                • Yann Nicolas
                  Thomas, which interface is the X800XT using? AGP or PCI-X? If AGP, where did you find it? I have a dual-2G as well with an ATI 9800 Pro 128MB (AGP) and the
                  Message 8 of 22 , May 8, 2006
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                    Thomas, which interface is the X800XT using?  AGP or PCI-X?  If AGP, where did you find it?

                    I have a dual-2G as well with an ATI 9800 Pro 128MB (AGP) and the performance is so-so.  It's much more usable on my MBP.

                    On 5/8/06, Thomas Tukker <thomastukker@...> wrote:
                    Sorry but your video card is a huge difference with mine, which might
                    be the difference.
                    I go through shoots like nothing else when using Aperture and of
                    course I have Lightroom too but it just doesnt compare at all.
                    I use Aperture 90% of the time, rest is done in Photoshop if I need to
                    do retouching.
                    The power of Aperture for me is the standard RAW conversion, it is
                    just drop dead gorgeous compared to any other RAW convertrer.

                    Best,

                    Thomas
                    http://www.thomastukker.com


                    --- In aperture@yahoogroups.com, Stroller <strolls_uk@...> wrote:
                    >
                    >
                    > On 8 May 2006, at 10:22, Thomas Tukker wrote:
                    >
                    > > For me 1.1.1 works great, no problems at all. My system is an older G5
                    > > dual 2.0 with a X800XT 256mb card and 3.5GB of RAM.
                    >
                    > I tried Aperture 1.1.1 for the first time last night, having switched 
                    > from Aperture 1.0 when Lightroom Beta 1 came out.
                    >
                    > I have a dual 1.8 G5 with 3gig of RAM and the ATI Radeon 9600 XT 
                    > video card, and the worst thing is straightening images. I have to 
                    > click on the image, move the pointer and then wait seconds to see the 
                    > image rotate. If I get impatient I eventually find the image see-
                    > sawing clockwise & anti-clockwise as it tries to follow my movements 
                    > with several seconds' of lag. Honestly, at this, Aperture makes my G5 
                    > feel like a 486! I have not felt like I had a computer this under-
                    > powered in nearly a decade.
                    >
                    > Other functions are not so snappy, but still usable - when I was 
                    > trying the auto-levels buttons I thought initially they made no 
                    > visible difference to the image. Then a few seconds later the image 
                    > would update to reflect the changes. That's a lot more manageable 
                    > than the rotation problem, tho', because the delay is _after_ the 
                    > button click, rather than _while_ I'm holding the pointer.
                    >
                    > I notice that when I'm waiting for Aperture to perform these tasks 
                    > the CPU & memory usage in Activity Monitor is quite reasonable - 
                    > Safari often is more demanding when it has a few windows open! - so 
                    > the problem is surely with the graphics card.
                    >
                    > I'd really like to try Aperture properly at full speed, because right 
                    > now I'm not getting along with it at all - Aperture's controls seem 
                    > far more complicated & less intuitive than those of Lightroom. I can 
                    > open Lightroom, make my changes & in only a couple of minutes have an 
                    > image that I'm happy with - right now this is usually impossible for 
                    > me with Aperture. Hopefully at full speed I would get the opportunity 
                    > to actually learn Aperture & appreciate it.
                    >
                    > The reason I moved back from Lightroom to Aperture is that Lightroom 
                    > does some stuff in its library that I'm not happy about. In ~/
                    > Lightroom/Photos I have a number of directories, each named for one 
                    > of my projects (or "shoots" as Lightroom calls them); I like this 
                    > "open" approach to the library, but not enough to forgive its 
                    > failings. I import from my 350D using the Canon utility, which dumps 
                    > all the images in a folder named "2006_05_08"; when I then import 
                    > into Lightroom the shoot name will default to "2006_05_08" and a 
                    > folder will be created in Lightroom's  library by this name. If I 
                    > rename the shoot in Lightroom, the folder name in the Library remains 
                    > unchanged however, and if I transfer the images to another shoot then 
                    > I find that the empty directory remains in the Lightroom library. So 
                    > the upshot of this is that after a dozen or two imports I am unable 
                    > to accurately locate images in the library based on the "shoot" in 
                    > which they're located in Lightroom, even though it would appear at 
                    > first glance that I should be able to do so. So at the end of the day 
                    > I tend to prefer Aperture's closed library which doesn't try to fool 
                    > me into thinking I should be able to determine where it's keeping 
                    > things.
                    >
                    > Other things I prefer about Aperture are its ability to handle dual-
                    > screens so well and its stacks feature. Stacks just seems to be an 
                    > entirely logical way of working.
                    >
                    > Undoubtedly Lightroom will improve with later releases, and I'm 
                    > blaming neither Apple nor Adobe for my annoyances - they're both 
                    > trying to produce innovative software in an untested market segment 
                    > and it's obvious that both products are improving rapidly. It's just 
                    > frustrating being a user who wants a tool he can use _now_. If I 
                    > wasn't new to digital photography in January then I'd probably have a 
                    > workflow already established, probably involving Finder or Bridge & 
                    > Photoshop; if had a workflow like that established for some time then 
                    > - considering my current hardware - there would be no reason for me 
                    > to change it.
                    >
                    > Right now, I'm dying for the release of the Intel PowrMacs - I don't 
                    > want to spend money on a graphics card for this machine when I hope 
                    > the Intel PowerMac release will be so soon. I play games 
                    > occasionally, would do so more if I were able to boot into XP, and 
                    > also work with XP for my job quite a lot, so the upgrade might make a 
                    > lot of sense. This depends on price, of course, and there's a bit of 
                    > me that says "wait until the second generation Intel PowerMacs as 
                    > they'll be cheaper", but I really don't want to spend a lot of money 
                    > on a graphics card for a machine I really want to replace within a year.
                    >
                    > For those of you concerned about the StrangeDogs cards then I advise 
                    > you not to be. I have my beefs with those guys but they seem to be 
                    > responsible enough to ensure that the drivers for the cards they sell 
                    > on eBay are mature enough for consumer use. At the end of the day, 
                    > fitting an incompatible graphics card is not going to toast your 
                    > computer and the worst case scenario is that that the card is buggy 
                    > or doesn't work with OS X quite as you anticipated. In this case you 
                    > could easily fit the card in a PeeCee, flash it back to the original 
                    > firmware and you have a card you can resell to a PeeCee user for 75% 
                    > of what you paid for it. Yes, this 25% is a "risk" but betting 25% of 
                    > a couple of hundred dollars against the retail price of a top-of-the-
                    > range Apple-certified cost is worthwhile, IMO.
                    >
                    > Stroller.
                    >







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                    --
                    /yann
                  • Thomas Tukker
                    AGP, I have an older dual proc 2.0 G5. I bought it on-line, its a little over priced in Europe but it allows me to run Aperture without any problems and I have
                    Message 9 of 22 , May 8, 2006
                    • 0 Attachment
                      AGP, I have an older dual proc 2.0 G5.
                      I bought it on-line, its a little over priced in Europe but it allows
                      me to run Aperture without any problems and I have enjoyed playing
                      Call of Duty, cant wait for part 2 to come out.. :))

                      Best,

                      Thomas

                      --- In aperture@yahoogroups.com, "Yann Nicolas" <yannster@...> wrote:
                      >
                      > Thomas, which interface is the X800XT using? AGP or PCI-X? If AGP,
                      where
                      > did you find it?
                      >
                      > I have a dual-2G as well with an ATI 9800 Pro 128MB (AGP) and the
                      > performance is so-so. It's much more usable on my MBP.
                      >
                      > On 5/8/06, Thomas Tukker <thomastukker@...> wrote:
                      > >
                      > > Sorry but your video card is a huge difference with mine, which might
                      > > be the difference.
                      > > I go through shoots like nothing else when using Aperture and of
                      > > course I have Lightroom too but it just doesnt compare at all.
                      > > I use Aperture 90% of the time, rest is done in Photoshop if I need to
                      > > do retouching.
                      > > The power of Aperture for me is the standard RAW conversion, it is
                      > > just drop dead gorgeous compared to any other RAW convertrer.
                      > >
                      > > Best,
                      > >
                      > > Thomas
                      > > http://www.thomastukker.com
                      > >
                      > >
                      > > --- In aperture@yahoogroups.com, Stroller <strolls_uk@> wrote:
                      > > >
                      > > >
                      > > > On 8 May 2006, at 10:22, Thomas Tukker wrote:
                      > > >
                      > > > > For me 1.1.1 works great, no problems at all. My system is an
                      older G5
                      > > > > dual 2.0 with a X800XT 256mb card and 3.5GB of RAM.
                      > > >
                      > > > I tried Aperture 1.1.1 for the first time last night, having
                      switched
                      > > > from Aperture 1.0 when Lightroom Beta 1 came out.
                      > > >
                      > > > I have a dual 1.8 G5 with 3gig of RAM and the ATI Radeon 9600 XT
                      > > > video card, and the worst thing is straightening images. I have to
                      > > > click on the image, move the pointer and then wait seconds to
                      see the
                      > > > image rotate. If I get impatient I eventually find the image see-
                      > > > sawing clockwise & anti-clockwise as it tries to follow my movements
                      > > > with several seconds' of lag. Honestly, at this, Aperture makes
                      my G5
                      > > > feel like a 486! I have not felt like I had a computer this under-
                      > > > powered in nearly a decade.
                      > > >
                      > > > Other functions are not so snappy, but still usable - when I was
                      > > > trying the auto-levels buttons I thought initially they made no
                      > > > visible difference to the image. Then a few seconds later the image
                      > > > would update to reflect the changes. That's a lot more manageable
                      > > > than the rotation problem, tho', because the delay is _after_ the
                      > > > button click, rather than _while_ I'm holding the pointer.
                      > > >
                      > > > I notice that when I'm waiting for Aperture to perform these tasks
                      > > > the CPU & memory usage in Activity Monitor is quite reasonable -
                      > > > Safari often is more demanding when it has a few windows open! - so
                      > > > the problem is surely with the graphics card.
                      > > >
                      > > > I'd really like to try Aperture properly at full speed, because
                      right
                      > > > now I'm not getting along with it at all - Aperture's controls seem
                      > > > far more complicated & less intuitive than those of Lightroom. I can
                      > > > open Lightroom, make my changes & in only a couple of minutes
                      have an
                      > > > image that I'm happy with - right now this is usually impossible for
                      > > > me with Aperture. Hopefully at full speed I would get the
                      opportunity
                      > > > to actually learn Aperture & appreciate it.
                      > > >
                      > > > The reason I moved back from Lightroom to Aperture is that Lightroom
                      > > > does some stuff in its library that I'm not happy about. In ~/
                      > > > Lightroom/Photos I have a number of directories, each named for one
                      > > > of my projects (or "shoots" as Lightroom calls them); I like this
                      > > > "open" approach to the library, but not enough to forgive its
                      > > > failings. I import from my 350D using the Canon utility, which dumps
                      > > > all the images in a folder named "2006_05_08"; when I then import
                      > > > into Lightroom the shoot name will default to "2006_05_08" and a
                      > > > folder will be created in Lightroom's library by this name. If I
                      > > > rename the shoot in Lightroom, the folder name in the Library
                      remains
                      > > > unchanged however, and if I transfer the images to another shoot
                      then
                      > > > I find that the empty directory remains in the Lightroom library. So
                      > > > the upshot of this is that after a dozen or two imports I am unable
                      > > > to accurately locate images in the library based on the "shoot" in
                      > > > which they're located in Lightroom, even though it would appear at
                      > > > first glance that I should be able to do so. So at the end of
                      the day
                      > > > I tend to prefer Aperture's closed library which doesn't try to fool
                      > > > me into thinking I should be able to determine where it's keeping
                      > > > things.
                      > > >
                      > > > Other things I prefer about Aperture are its ability to handle dual-
                      > > > screens so well and its stacks feature. Stacks just seems to be an
                      > > > entirely logical way of working.
                      > > >
                      > > > Undoubtedly Lightroom will improve with later releases, and I'm
                      > > > blaming neither Apple nor Adobe for my annoyances - they're both
                      > > > trying to produce innovative software in an untested market segment
                      > > > and it's obvious that both products are improving rapidly. It's just
                      > > > frustrating being a user who wants a tool he can use _now_. If I
                      > > > wasn't new to digital photography in January then I'd probably
                      have a
                      > > > workflow already established, probably involving Finder or Bridge &
                      > > > Photoshop; if had a workflow like that established for some time
                      then
                      > > > - considering my current hardware - there would be no reason for me
                      > > > to change it.
                      > > >
                      > > > Right now, I'm dying for the release of the Intel PowrMacs - I don't
                      > > > want to spend money on a graphics card for this machine when I hope
                      > > > the Intel PowerMac release will be so soon. I play games
                      > > > occasionally, would do so more if I were able to boot into XP, and
                      > > > also work with XP for my job quite a lot, so the upgrade might
                      make a
                      > > > lot of sense. This depends on price, of course, and there's a bit of
                      > > > me that says "wait until the second generation Intel PowerMacs as
                      > > > they'll be cheaper", but I really don't want to spend a lot of money
                      > > > on a graphics card for a machine I really want to replace within
                      a year.
                      > > >
                      > > > For those of you concerned about the StrangeDogs cards then I advise
                      > > > you not to be. I have my beefs with those guys but they seem to be
                      > > > responsible enough to ensure that the drivers for the cards they
                      sell
                      > > > on eBay are mature enough for consumer use. At the end of the day,
                      > > > fitting an incompatible graphics card is not going to toast your
                      > > > computer and the worst case scenario is that that the card is buggy
                      > > > or doesn't work with OS X quite as you anticipated. In this case you
                      > > > could easily fit the card in a PeeCee, flash it back to the original
                      > > > firmware and you have a card you can resell to a PeeCee user for 75%
                      > > > of what you paid for it. Yes, this 25% is a "risk" but betting
                      25% of
                      > > > a couple of hundred dollars against the retail price of a
                      top-of-the-
                      > > > range Apple-certified cost is worthwhile, IMO.
                      > > >
                      > > > Stroller.
                      > > >
                      > >
                      > >
                      > >
                      > >
                      > >
                      > >
                      > >
                      > > SPONSORED LINKS
                      > > Image processing
                      software<http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?t=ms&k=Image+processing+software&w1=Image+processing+software&w2=Image+processing&w3=Digital+image+processing&w4=Image+processing+system&w5=Mentor+graphics&w6=Embossed+graphics&c=6&s=156&.sig=ae8cLmwwxiP1GfjG845zng>
                      Image
                      > >
                      processing<http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?t=ms&k=Image+processing&w1=Image+processing+software&w2=Image+processing&w3=Digital+image+processing&w4=Image+processing+system&w5=Mentor+graphics&w6=Embossed+graphics&c=6&s=156&.sig=tBjp5Jfe7I2QDWxp5KZysA>
                      Digital
                      > > image
                      processing<http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?t=ms&k=Digital+image+processing&w1=Image+processing+software&w2=Image+processing&w3=Digital+image+processing&w4=Image+processing+system&w5=Mentor+graphics&w6=Embossed+graphics&c=6&s=156&.sig=33TZxc9cpXLfDYRoTa61Vg>
                      Image
                      > > processing
                      system<http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?t=ms&k=Image+processing+system&w1=Image+processing+software&w2=Image+processing&w3=Digital+image+processing&w4=Image+processing+system&w5=Mentor+graphics&w6=Embossed+graphics&c=6&s=156&.sig=KM4yUaDC3OyxYv3A5YfVzQ>
                      Mentor
                      > >
                      graphics<http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?t=ms&k=Mentor+graphics&w1=Image+processing+software&w2=Image+processing&w3=Digital+image+processing&w4=Image+processing+system&w5=Mentor+graphics&w6=Embossed+graphics&c=6&s=156&.sig=2D_TffNAwje79Z1-TQxpzA>
                      Embossed
                      > >
                      graphics<http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?t=ms&k=Embossed+graphics&w1=Image+processing+software&w2=Image+processing&w3=Digital+image+processing&w4=Image+processing+system&w5=Mentor+graphics&w6=Embossed+graphics&c=6&s=156&.sig=da4XiYHEiztlNNXE86zFtQ>
                      > > ------------------------------
                      > > YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS
                      > >
                      > >
                      > > - Visit your group
                      "aperture<http://groups.yahoo.com/group/aperture>"
                      > > on the web.
                      > >
                      > > - To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
                      > >
                      aperture-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com<aperture-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com?subject=Unsubscribe>
                      > >
                      > > - Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of
                      > > Service <http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/>.
                      > >
                      > >
                      > > ------------------------------
                      > >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      > --
                      > /yann
                      >
                    • Yann Nicolas
                      OK, so the ATI X800 XT seems to be the best option for anyone with an AGP dual-G5 and it does seem to be quite an increase over the 9800 Pro:
                      Message 10 of 22 , May 8, 2006
                      • 0 Attachment
                        OK, so the ATI X800 XT seems to be the best option for anyone with an AGP dual-G5 and it does seem to be quite an increase over the 9800 Pro:

                        http://tinyurl.com/gm4d3

                        and

                        http://tinyurl.com/zc6uo

                        ...but it's about $350-$400.  Wait for the next Power Macs (or MacTower Pro) or get one of these?

                        Hmm...

                        /y

                        On 5/8/06, Thomas Tukker <thomastukker@...> wrote:
                        AGP, I have an older dual proc 2.0 G5.
                        I bought it on-line, its a little over priced in Europe but it allows
                        me to run Aperture without any problems and I have enjoyed playing
                        Call of Duty, cant wait for part 2 to come out.. :))


                        [...]

                      • Thomas Tukker
                        I shoot to make money, so I dont have the luxury to wait. If I can increase my efficiency by investing in Aperture and a new video card, than thats justified
                        Message 11 of 22 , May 9, 2006
                        • 0 Attachment
                          I shoot to make money, so I dont have the luxury to wait. If I can
                          increase my efficiency by investing in Aperture and a new video card,
                          than thats justified for me.
                          It turned out to be a good decision, I use Aperture daily and it helps
                          me more than any other program can with my daily tasks.

                          I will buy a new tower when it comes out and I think this video card
                          will make my system more attractive on the used market.

                          I bought the card for 500euros when I lived in Milano btw....so you
                          can feel very happy with $350...!

                          Best,

                          Thomas


                          >
                          > ...but it's about $350-$400. Wait for the next Power Macs (or
                          MacTower Pro)
                          > or get one of these?
                          >
                          > Hmm...
                          >
                          > /y
                          >
                          > On 5/8/06, Thomas Tukker <thomastukker@...> wrote:
                          > >
                          > > AGP, I have an older dual proc 2.0 G5.
                          > > I bought it on-line, its a little over priced in Europe but it allows
                          > > me to run Aperture without any problems and I have enjoyed playing
                          > > Call of Duty, cant wait for part 2 to come out.. :))
                          > >
                          >
                          >
                          > [...]
                          >
                        • Debbi
                          Do any of you use it in Aperture and it so, how do you think it compares to Photoshop or another plug-in? I usually use Greg Gorman s method in Photoshop, but
                          Message 12 of 22 , May 10, 2006
                          • 0 Attachment
                            Do any of you use it in Aperture and it so, how do you think it
                            compares to Photoshop or another plug-in? I usually use Greg Gorman's
                            method in Photoshop, but I have never actually printed anything with
                            it.
                            Debbi
                            --
                            Debbi in California
                            http://www.pbase.com/debbi

                            Whoever said 'money can't buy happiness' never met a camera they loved!
                          • Debbi
                            You all are pretty quiet...... Have any of you tried the Kodak print services via Aperture? I usually use WHCC and just wondered if Kodak was any good Debbi --
                            Message 13 of 22 , May 13, 2006
                            • 0 Attachment
                              You all are pretty quiet......

                              Have any of you tried the Kodak print services via Aperture? I
                              usually use WHCC and just wondered if Kodak was any good
                              Debbi
                              --
                              Debbi in California
                              http://www.pbase.com/debbi

                              Whoever said 'money can't buy happiness' never met a camera they loved!
                            • Alejandro (Alex) Rodriguez
                              I have and I think it sucks compared to WHCC. The ONLY plus is how easy it is to use. Alex
                              Message 14 of 22 , May 13, 2006
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                                I have and I think it sucks compared to WHCC. The ONLY plus is how
                                easy it is to use.

                                Alex

                                On May 13, 2006, at 4:58 PM, Debbi wrote:

                                > You all are pretty quiet......
                                >
                                > Have any of you tried the Kodak print services via Aperture? I
                                > usually use WHCC and just wondered if Kodak was any good
                                > Debbi
                                > --
                                > Debbi in California
                                > http://www.pbase.com/debbi
                                >
                                > Whoever said 'money can't buy happiness' never met a camera they
                                > loved!
                                >
                                >
                                > ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor --------------------
                                > ~-->
                                > Protect your PC from spy ware with award winning anti spy
                                > technology. It's free.
                                > http://us.click.yahoo.com/97bhrC/LGxNAA/yQLSAA/e4wwlB/TM
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                                > ~->
                                >
                                >
                                > Yahoo! Groups Links
                                >
                                >
                                >
                                >
                                >
                                >
                                >
                              • Alejandro (Alex) Rodriguez
                                On my machine the results look good however I will know how the printed images look later this week, I just sent a batch of images to white house for printing.
                                Message 15 of 22 , May 13, 2006
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                                  On my machine the results look good however I will know how the
                                  printed images look later this week, I just sent a batch of images to
                                  white house for printing.

                                  Alex

                                  On May 10, 2006, at 2:58 PM, Debbi wrote:

                                  > Do any of you use it in Aperture and it so, how do you think it
                                  > compares to Photoshop or another plug-in? I usually use Greg Gorman's
                                  > method in Photoshop, but I have never actually printed anything with
                                  > it.
                                  > Debbi
                                  > --
                                  > Debbi in California
                                  > http://www.pbase.com/debbi
                                  >
                                  > Whoever said 'money can't buy happiness' never met a camera they
                                  > loved!
                                • Debbi
                                  Thank Alex, on both answers! Debbi ... -- Debbi in California http://www.pbase.com/debbi Whoever said money can t buy happiness never met a camera they
                                  Message 16 of 22 , May 13, 2006
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                                    Thank Alex, on both answers!
                                    Debbi



                                    >On my machine the results look good however I will know how the
                                    >printed images look later this week, I just sent a batch of images to
                                    >white house for printing.
                                    >
                                    >Alex
                                    >
                                    >On May 10, 2006, at 2:58 PM, Debbi wrote:
                                    >
                                    >> Do any of you use it in Aperture and it so, how do you think it
                                    >> compares to Photoshop or another plug-in? I usually use Greg Gorman's
                                    >> method in Photoshop, but I have never actually printed anything with
                                    >> it.
                                    > > Debbi

                                    --
                                    Debbi in California
                                    http://www.pbase.com/debbi

                                    Whoever said 'money can't buy happiness' never met a camera they loved!
                                  • Ronald Leppke
                                    ... Ron Ronald D. Leppke, Ed.D. RDL Associates 17 inch 1.67 GHz G4 PowerBook 1.5 GB DDR SDRAM Mac OS X 10.4.6, Build 8l127 (Tiger) Safari Version 2.0.3
                                    Message 17 of 22 , May 15, 2006
                                    • 0 Attachment
                                      I just now received my coupon request response:


                                      Thank you for participating in the Aperture Customer Program promotion.  Attached is your e-coupon code, valid at the online Apple Store  www.apple.com/smallbusiness/store.

                                      Ron


                                      Ronald D. Leppke, Ed.D.

                                      RDL Associates

                                      17 inch 1.67 GHz G4 PowerBook

                                      1.5 GB DDR SDRAM 

                                      Mac OS X 10.4.6, Build 8l127  (Tiger)

                                      Safari Version 2.0.3 (417.9.3)


                                      lepprd@...    




                                    • Debbi
                                      Thanks for sharing it Ron. What do you have your eye on? Debbi ... -- Debbi in California http://www.pbase.com/debbi Whoever said money can t buy happiness
                                      Message 18 of 22 , May 15, 2006
                                      • 0 Attachment
                                        Re: [aperture] Coupon

                                        Thanks for sharing it Ron. What do you have your eye on?
                                        Debbi


                                        I just now received my coupon request response:


                                        Thank you for participating in the Aperture Customer Program promotion.  Attached is your e-coupon code, valid at the online Apple Store  www.apple.com/smallbusiness/store.

                                        Ron


                                        Ronald D. Leppke, Ed.D.
                                        RDL Associates
                                        17 inch 1.67 GHz G4 PowerBook
                                        1.5 GB DDR SDRAM 
                                        Mac OS X 10.4.6, Build 8l127  (Tiger)
                                        Safari Version 2.0.3 (417.9.3)

                                        lepprd@...   

                                        -- 
                                        
                                        Debbi in California
                                        http://www.pbase.com/debbi

                                        Whoever said 'money can't buy happiness' never met a camera they loved!
                                      • David Taylor
                                        Mine just came too! I just went and left about a pint of drool all over a 17 MacBook Pro at our local Apple store. Guess I have until September 30, 2006 when
                                        Message 19 of 22 , May 15, 2006
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                                          Mine just came too!

                                          I just went and left about a pint of drool all over a 17" MacBook Pro
                                          at our local Apple store. Guess I have until September 30, 2006 when
                                          the coupon expires to summon up the courage. I wish the Adobe apps
                                          were already Universal.

                                          David
                                          --
                                          David W. Taylor, Detayls
                                          www.detayls.com


                                          On May 15, 2006, at 3:44 PM, Debbi wrote:

                                          >
                                          > Thanks for sharing it Ron. What do you have your eye on?
                                          > Debbi
                                          >
                                          >
                                          >> I just now received my coupon request response:
                                          >>
                                          >>>
                                          >>> Thank you for participating in the Aperture Customer Program
                                          >>> promotion. Attached is your e-coupon code, valid at the online
                                          >>> Apple Store www.apple.com/smallbusiness/store.
                                          >>
                                          >> Ron
                                          >>
                                          >>
                                          >> Ronald D. Leppke, Ed.D.
                                          >> RDL Associates
                                          >> 17 inch 1.67 GHz G4 PowerBook
                                          >> 1.5 GB DDR SDRAM
                                          >> Mac OS X 10.4.6, Build 8l127 (Tiger)
                                          >> Safari Version 2.0.3 (417.9.3)
                                          >>
                                          >> lepprd@...
                                          >
                                          > --
                                          > Debbi in California
                                          > http://www.pbase.com/debbi
                                          >
                                          > Whoever said 'money can't buy happiness' never met a camera they
                                          > loved!
                                          >
                                          > YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS
                                          >
                                          > Visit your group "aperture" on the web.
                                          >
                                          > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
                                          > aperture-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
                                          >
                                          > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
                                          >
                                          >
                                        • Ronald Leppke
                                          I was also at the Apple store looking at the 17 MBP. I am expecting to combine the coupon with the friends (empolyee) discount on the 17 MBP. I specifically
                                          Message 20 of 22 , May 15, 2006
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                                            I was also at the Apple store looking at the 17 MBP. I am expecting to combine the coupon with the "friends" (empolyee) discount on the 17 MBP. I specifically tested the two finger tap to get the contextual menu, i.e., a right click and it worked fine. The Apple store employee was not aware of this feature.


                                            On May 15, 2006, at 6:07 PM, David Taylor wrote:

                                            I just went and left about a pint of drool all over a 17" MacBook Pro  
                                            at our local Apple store.

                                            ...and, of course my 17 1.67 (below) is for sale

                                            Ron


                                            Ronald D. Leppke, Ed.D.

                                            RDL Associates

                                            17 inch 1.67 GHz G4 PowerBook

                                            1.5 GB DDR SDRAM 

                                            Mac OS X 10.4.6, Build 8l127  (Tiger)

                                            Safari Version 2.0.3 (417.9.3)


                                            lepprd@...    




                                          • jimmy_yu
                                            Ron, Does it say if it s possible to use the coupon in a store other than the regular apple.com store? I know with the ipod settlement coupon codes, you could
                                            Message 21 of 22 , May 15, 2006
                                            • 0 Attachment
                                              Ron,

                                              Does it say if it's possible to use the coupon in a store other than
                                              the regular apple.com store? I know with the ipod settlement coupon
                                              codes, you could only use it at the regular apple store (ie, no edu or
                                              govt stores).

                                              Jimmy

                                              --- In aperture@yahoogroups.com, Ronald Leppke <lepprd@...> wrote:
                                              >
                                              > I was also at the Apple store looking at the 17 MBP. I am expecting
                                              > to combine the coupon with the "friends" (empolyee) discount on the
                                              > 17 MBP. I specifically tested the two finger tap to get the
                                              > contextual menu, i.e., a right click and it worked fine. The Apple
                                              > store employee was not aware of this feature.
                                              >
                                              >
                                              > On May 15, 2006, at 6:07 PM, David Taylor wrote:
                                              >
                                              > > I just went and left about a pint of drool all over a 17" MacBook Pro
                                              > > at our local Apple store.
                                              >
                                              > ...and, of course my 17 1.67 (below) is for sale
                                              >
                                              > Ron
                                              >
                                              >
                                              > Ronald D. Leppke, Ed.D.
                                              > RDL Associates
                                              > 17 inch 1.67 GHz G4 PowerBook
                                              > 1.5 GB DDR SDRAM
                                              > Mac OS X 10.4.6, Build 8l127 (Tiger)
                                              > Safari Version 2.0.3 (417.9.3)
                                              >
                                              > lepprd@...
                                              >
                                            • robert a. staehle
                                              E-coupons are not redeemable on Apple Online Stores that serve institutions. The above is from the coupon I received today.
                                              Message 22 of 22 , May 15, 2006
                                              • 0 Attachment
                                                "E-coupons are not redeemable on Apple Online Stores that serve
                                                institutions."

                                                The above is from the coupon I received today.

                                                On May 15, 2006, at 9:15 PM, jimmy_yu wrote:

                                                > Ron,
                                                >
                                                > Does it say if it's possible to use the coupon in a store other than
                                                > the regular apple.com store? I know with the ipod settlement coupon
                                                > codes, you could only use it at the regular apple store (ie, no edu or
                                                > govt stores).
                                                >
                                                > Jimmy
                                                >
                                                > --- In aperture@yahoogroups.com, Ronald Leppke <lepprd@...> wrote:
                                                >>
                                                >> I was also at the Apple store looking at the 17 MBP. I am expecting
                                                >> to combine the coupon with the "friends" (empolyee) discount on the
                                                >> 17 MBP. I specifically tested the two finger tap to get the
                                                >> contextual menu, i.e., a right click and it worked fine. The Apple
                                                >> store employee was not aware of this feature.
                                                >>
                                                >>
                                                >> On May 15, 2006, at 6:07 PM, David Taylor wrote:
                                                >>
                                                >>> I just went and left about a pint of drool all over a 17" MacBook
                                                >>> Pro
                                                >>> at our local Apple store.
                                                >>
                                                >> ...and, of course my 17 1.67 (below) is for sale
                                                >>
                                                >> Ron
                                                >>
                                                >>
                                                >> Ronald D. Leppke, Ed.D.
                                                >> RDL Associates
                                                >> 17 inch 1.67 GHz G4 PowerBook
                                                >> 1.5 GB DDR SDRAM
                                                >> Mac OS X 10.4.6, Build 8l127 (Tiger)
                                                >> Safari Version 2.0.3 (417.9.3)
                                                >>
                                                >> lepprd@...
                                                >>
                                                >
                                                >
                                                >
                                                >
                                                >
                                                >
                                                >
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                                                > now.
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