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RE: [anubiasdesign] Re: Lowering pH in a Holding Tank

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  • David Williams
    Exactly, Larry, thank you. I just meant using CO2 to alter PH doesn t do a thing to make water soft or hard - and it is the water being soft or hard that fish
    Message 1 of 15 , Apr 20, 2013

      Exactly, Larry, thank you.


      I just meant using CO2 to alter PH doesn't do a thing to make water soft or hard - and it is the water being soft or hard that fish (and inverts) care about, not the PH readings.


      Let me put it in an example. I'm a planted tank guy, and while I don't look to breed a lot of fish, I do like for my little inverts to multiply....Keep in mind - I can make the PH readings whatever I want - almost all of my tanks have CO2 being injected in them.


      Crystal Red Shrimp want soft water and the right water temperatures  or they don't breed. If I don't use a lot of rainwater or another source of soft water in my water changes, they won't breed. If the water gets too warm, they won't breed. Period.... and it doesn't matter if I crank CO2 and bring PH down or not.


      Why? They want cool, soft water. Dropping the PH via CO2 didn't change their need, nor did it change whether the water was soft or hard - it is an artificial change I create with the CO2. I can crank CO2 to whatever PH you want. Short of making the water carbonated and therefore poisonous, of course, I can make it "look" as soft as you can possibly imagine... but KH is KH, hardness is hardness, and that is more often what the livestock really care about. NOT PH.



      Now, in a system devoid of altering mechanisms -devoid of things like me injecting CO2 in my tanks - PH readings can often show you whether water is hard or soft (unless you got some REALLY funky water, like where those Sulawesi shrimp come from). I say most often, because even then, there are variations depending on the old triangle Larry refers to of GH/KH/PH. But a method that knocks that triangle out of whack (CO2 injection, a boatload of newer driftwood leaching tannins,  or the wide swings in PH that happen in say, the tributaries in Houston's natural waters) doesn't change the other two legs... and it is the other two legs that matter for livestock. Make better sense?




      From: anubiasdesign@yahoogroups.com [mailto:anubiasdesign@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Larry Vires
      Sent: Friday, April 19, 2013 3:07 PM
      To: anubiasdesign@yahoogroups.com
      Subject: Re: [anubiasdesign] Re: Lowering pH in a Holding Tank



      I think what was trying to be said is CO2 levels in nature are very dependent upon the type and amount of buffers in the system.  This is why a lot of the older aquarium books use the infamous chart with KH and pH to figure CO2 levels.  It's accurate to a very close margin, but doesn't apply to systems with injected CO2 because one of the parameters is altered.  This is also why drop checkers can be used on those tanks .  If the injected CO2 were turned off, the system would stabilize to its natural level within a few hours.




      From: dan_mcmonigle <daphnia@...>
      To: anubiasdesign@yahoogroups.com
      Sent: Friday, April 19, 2013 7:29 AM
      Subject: [anubiasdesign] Re: Lowering pH in a Holding Tank



      I don't understand in what sense CO2 is artificial. Natural water supplies contain CO2, some like the one available to me, to the point they bubble like a carbonated beverage. Plants (flora) absorb CO2 more efficiently at night and so they do not become completely inactive. They stop producing oxygen. In fact some plants from hot climates where the energy cost of absorbing CO2 during the day is high, only absorb CO2 at night. The pH swings on a daily cycle may not be directly a result of CO2 absorption since plants don't stop absorbing CO2 just because it gets dark.

      --- In anubiasdesign@yahoogroups.com, "David Williams" <ingg1196@...> wrote:

      > CO2 is an artificial change. It is also a change that happens every day in
      > nature, natural environments often show drastic PH swings from day to
      > as flora is active or not, temperature swings, etc.


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