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Brazil Damns

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  • galaxie_pete
    I know this topic has come up many times as it impacted the hobby. And I have read a snippet here and there. But I just listened to the story on NPR about what
    Message 1 of 8 , Feb 15, 2013
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      I know this topic has come up many times as it impacted the hobby. And I have read a snippet here and there. But I just listened to the story on NPR about what Brazil is doing - just stunning. I didn't realize just how incredible their plans were. 168 new damns going up in the Amazon alone in the next decade. 34 sizable damns by 2021.

      The Jirau hydroelectric dam going up on the Amazon River's largest tributary, the Madeira River, is massive. It contains 50 bus sized turbines (most in the world) and it is the 3rd largest damn in Brazil 14th largest in the world.

      The ecological effects must be just shattering. It will certainly affect the future of the world not just our hobby...

      The whole article is here.
      http://www.npr.org/2013/02/13/171902544/hungry-for-energy-brazil-builds-monster-dams-in-the-amazon

      PEte
    • Joshua Wiegert
      It is sad and dam ironic (sorry...), Brazil pass some of the most forward thinking and restrictive export laws in the world, in order to protect their natural
      Message 2 of 8 , Feb 15, 2013
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        It is sad and dam ironic (sorry...), Brazil pass some of the most forward thinking and restrictive export laws in the world, in order to protect their natural resources and the aquarium fish which they believed to be exploited.  Brazil said that they valued the fishes living in these waters so much that they were willing to effectively destroy a not insignificant portion of their economy to protect them, killing the (legal) fish collecting and exporting business in brazil and driving collectors to other countries and regions (Myanmar and Peru thank you). 

        Yet, ten years later, they want to destroy the habitat they sacrificed this all to preserve. 

        Go figure.  



        Sent from my iPhone

        On Feb 15, 2013, at 16:01, "galaxie_pete" <galaxie_pete@...> wrote:

         

        I know this topic has come up many times as it impacted the hobby. And I have read a snippet here and there. But I just listened to the story on NPR about what Brazil is doing - just stunning. I didn't realize just how incredible their plans were. 168 new damns going up in the Amazon alone in the next decade. 34 sizable damns by 2021.

        The Jirau hydroelectric dam going up on the Amazon River's largest tributary, the Madeira River, is massive. It contains 50 bus sized turbines (most in the world) and it is the 3rd largest damn in Brazil 14th largest in the world.

        The ecological effects must be just shattering. It will certainly affect the future of the world not just our hobby...

        The whole article is here.
        http://www.npr.org/2013/02/13/171902544/hungry-for-energy-brazil-builds-monster-dams-in-the-amazon

        PEte

      • Robert DeBonis
        Unfortunately, this destruction of natural habitats is happening all over the developing world and not just Brazil. There is little we as individuals can do
        Message 3 of 8 , Feb 15, 2013
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          Unfortunately, this destruction of natural habitats is happening all over the developing world and not just Brazil. There is little we as individuals can do about this other
          than petition the Governments involved, the United Nations, and the many worldwide conservation societies that are involved in this. This is a Global economic and over population problem that every country in the world will eventually have to face. There is no easy solution. Our Hobby is a miniscule victim of this potential disaster. If you study geological history, the Fish, Animals, Insects, Trees and Plants will eventually survive in one way or the other. As their habitats change they will eventually adjust to the changes; many will perish, but also many will survive and new species will evolve. Life has an amazing ability to grow and flourish in even the most hostile and extreme environments on earth. We Humans are the top parasites on this planet, we consume and will continue to consume without giving anything back other than poisonous waste products. Unfortunately, our technology which is making life "better" for billions of Humans is destroying our natural world. As Aquarium Hobbyists, we can and should seriously get involved in Species Maintenance Programs to protect and raise species of Fish that are endangered around the world. It may be a small thing to do, but if we can prevent the extinction of one animal and increase the potential of it's eventual re-introduction into a viable habitat where it can proliferate, it will be a worth while endeavor.    
           
          Bob DeBonis
        • Robert DeBonis
          Unfortunately, this destruction of natural habitats is happening all over the developing world and not just Brazil. There is little we as individuals can do
          Message 4 of 8 , Feb 15, 2013
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            Unfortunately, this destruction of natural habitats is happening all over the developing world and not just Brazil. There is little we as individuals can do about this other
            than petition the Governments involved, the United Nations, and the many worldwide conservation societies that are involved in this. This is a Global economic and over population problem that every country in the world will eventually have to face. There is no easy solution. Our Hobby is a miniscule victim of this potential disaster. If you study geological history, the Fish, Animals, Insects, Trees and Plants will eventually survive in one way or the other. As their habitats change they will eventually adjust to the changes; many will perish, but also many will survive and new species will evolve. Life has an amazing ability to grow and flourish in even the most hostile and extreme environments on earth. We Humans are the top parasites on this planet, we consume and will continue to consume without giving anything back other than poisonous waste products. Unfortunately, our technology which is making life "better" for billions of Humans is destroying our natural world. As Aquarium Hobbyists, we can and should seriously get involved in Species Maintenance Programs to protect and raise species of Fish that are endangered around the world. It may be a small thing to do, but if we can prevent the extinction of one animal and increase the potential of it's eventual re-introduction into a viable habitat where it can proliferate, it will be a worth while endeavor.  
             
            Bob DeBonis  
             
            ----- Original Message -----
            Sent: Friday, February 15, 2013 4:01 PM
            Subject: [anubiasdesign] Brazil Damns

             

            I know this topic has come up many times as it impacted the hobby. And I have read a snippet here and there. But I just listened to the story on NPR about what Brazil is doing - just stunning. I didn't realize just how incredible their plans were. 168 new damns going up in the Amazon alone in the next decade. 34 sizable damns by 2021.

            The Jirau hydroelectric dam going up on the Amazon River's largest tributary, the Madeira River, is massive. It contains 50 bus sized turbines (most in the world) and it is the 3rd largest damn in Brazil 14th largest in the world.

            The ecological effects must be just shattering. It will certainly affect the future of the world not just our hobby...

            The whole article is here.
            http://www.npr.org/2013/02/13/171902544/hungry-for-energy-brazil-builds-monster-dams-in-the-amazon

            PEte

          • rdebon55
            Unfortunately the main exports from Brazil are not Ornamental Fish, they are as per the World Bank and to quote www.tradingeconomics.com, the following,
            Message 5 of 8 , Feb 15, 2013
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              Unfortunately the main exports from Brazil are not Ornamental Fish, they are as per the World Bank and to quote www.tradingeconomics.com, the following, "Brazil is the world's second largest exporter of soybean, is responsible for 80 percent of the planet's orange juice and accounts for 35 percent of global exports of raw cane and refined sugar. Other exports include: iron ores and concentrates (16 percent of total exports), oil (8 percent), meat (4 percent), coffee (2 percent), clothing and cars", and they don't even mention Timber. In fact as far as I can see the entire Ornamental Fish Industry is a microscopic blip on the chart of the percentage of GDP for Brazil. No wonder they are building DAMS like crazy, the country needs electricity and lots of it to support their energy intensive industries. Brazil has the same problem that all developing countries have, except on a larger scale, How do they grow their economy to support their growing population? Unfortunately they do not feel at this time they have the luxury or perhaps the desire to place environmental issues above their economic concerns. This may change, but for the foreseeable future the environment is going to suffer and Brazilian fauna, ornamental fish included, will be harder to find; and by the way, as a keeper of Asian fish I can tell you Myanmar, New Guinea and Borneo will not be far behind.
              Bob DeBonis

              --- In anubiasdesign@yahoogroups.com, Joshua Wiegert <joshuawiegert@...> wrote:
              >
              > It is sad and dam ironic (sorry...), Brazil pass some of the most forward thinking and restrictive export laws in the world, in order to protect their natural resources and the aquarium fish which they believed to be exploited. Brazil said that they valued the fishes living in these waters so much that they were willing to effectively destroy a not insignificant portion of their economy to protect them, killing the (legal) fish collecting and exporting business in brazil and driving collectors to other countries and regions (Myanmar and Peru thank you).
              >
              > Yet, ten years later, they want to destroy the habitat they sacrificed this all to preserve.
              >
              > Go figure.
              >
              >
              >
              > Sent from my iPhone
              >
              > On Feb 15, 2013, at 16:01, "galaxie_pete" <galaxie_pete@...> wrote:
              >
              > > I know this topic has come up many times as it impacted the hobby. And I have read a snippet here and there. But I just listened to the story on NPR about what Brazil is doing - just stunning. I didn't realize just how incredible their plans were. 168 new damns going up in the Amazon alone in the next decade. 34 sizable damns by 2021.
              > >
              > > The Jirau hydroelectric dam going up on the Amazon River's largest tributary, the Madeira River, is massive. It contains 50 bus sized turbines (most in the world) and it is the 3rd largest damn in Brazil 14th largest in the world.
              > >
              > > The ecological effects must be just shattering. It will certainly affect the future of the world not just our hobby...
              > >
              > > The whole article is here.
              > > http://www.npr.org/2013/02/13/171902544/hungry-for-energy-brazil-builds-monster-dams-in-the-amazon
              > >
              > > PEte
              > >
              > >
              >
            • Vern Cloud
              I believe this was all a ruse. I am convinced they were just trying to eliminate some of the groups that would object to the habitat destruction caused by all
              Message 6 of 8 , Feb 16, 2013
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                I believe this was all a ruse. I am convinced they were just trying to eliminate some of the groups that would object to the habitat destruction caused by all the damns they have in the works.
                Vern


                From: Joshua Wiegert <joshuawiegert@...>
                To: "anubiasdesign@yahoogroups.com" <anubiasdesign@yahoogroups.com>
                Sent: Fri, February 15, 2013 11:25:05 PM
                Subject: Re: [anubiasdesign] Brazil Damns

                 

                It is sad and dam ironic (sorry...), Brazil pass some of the most forward thinking and restrictive export laws in the world, in order to protect their natural resources and the aquarium fish which they believed to be exploited.  Brazil said that they valued the fishes living in these waters so much that they were willing to effectively destroy a not insignificant portion of their economy to protect them, killing the (legal) fish collecting and exporting business in brazil and driving collectors to other countries and regions (Myanmar and Peru thank you). 

                Yet, ten years later, they want to destroy the habitat they sacrificed this all to preserve. 

                Go figure.  



              • galaxie_pete
                Sad but also true. The impact of losing the Amazon to deforestation and Damns will in the end have a truly significant impact on the globe. We don t know what
                Message 7 of 8 , Feb 16, 2013
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                  Sad but also true. The impact of losing the Amazon to deforestation and Damns will in the end have a truly significant impact on the globe. We don't know what is being destroyed. That might be the most sad part of this.

                  --- In anubiasdesign@yahoogroups.com, "rdebon55" <rdebon@...> wrote:
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  > Unfortunately the main exports from Brazil are not Ornamental Fish, they are as per the World Bank and to quote www.tradingeconomics.com, the following, "Brazil is the world's second largest exporter of soybean, is responsible for 80 percent of the planet's orange juice and accounts for 35 percent of global exports of raw cane and refined sugar. Other exports include: iron ores and concentrates (16 percent of total exports), oil (8 percent), meat (4 percent), coffee (2 percent), clothing and cars", and they don't even mention Timber. In fact as far as I can see the entire Ornamental Fish Industry is a microscopic blip on the chart of the percentage of GDP for Brazil. No wonder they are building DAMS like crazy, the country needs electricity and lots of it to support their energy intensive industries. Brazil has the same problem that all developing countries have, except on a larger scale, How do they grow their economy to support their growing population? Unfortunately they do not feel at this time they have the luxury or perhaps the desire to place environmental issues above their economic concerns. This may change, but for the foreseeable future the environment is going to suffer and Brazilian fauna, ornamental fish included, will be harder to find; and by the way, as a keeper of Asian fish I can tell you Myanmar, New Guinea and Borneo will not be far behind.
                  > Bob DeBonis
                  >
                  > --- In anubiasdesign@yahoogroups.com, Joshua Wiegert <joshuawiegert@> wrote:
                  > >
                  > > It is sad and dam ironic (sorry...), Brazil pass some of the most forward thinking and restrictive export laws in the world, in order to protect their natural resources and the aquarium fish which they believed to be exploited. Brazil said that they valued the fishes living in these waters so much that they were willing to effectively destroy a not insignificant portion of their economy to protect them, killing the (legal) fish collecting and exporting business in brazil and driving collectors to other countries and regions (Myanmar and Peru thank you).
                  > >
                  > > Yet, ten years later, they want to destroy the habitat they sacrificed this all to preserve.
                  > >
                  > > Go figure.
                  > >
                  > >
                  > >
                  > > Sent from my iPhone
                  > >
                  > > On Feb 15, 2013, at 16:01, "galaxie_pete" <galaxie_pete@> wrote:
                  > >
                  > > > I know this topic has come up many times as it impacted the hobby. And I have read a snippet here and there. But I just listened to the story on NPR about what Brazil is doing - just stunning. I didn't realize just how incredible their plans were. 168 new damns going up in the Amazon alone in the next decade. 34 sizable damns by 2021.
                  > > >
                  > > > The Jirau hydroelectric dam going up on the Amazon River's largest tributary, the Madeira River, is massive. It contains 50 bus sized turbines (most in the world) and it is the 3rd largest damn in Brazil 14th largest in the world.
                  > > >
                  > > > The ecological effects must be just shattering. It will certainly affect the future of the world not just our hobby...
                  > > >
                  > > > The whole article is here.
                  > > > http://www.npr.org/2013/02/13/171902544/hungry-for-energy-brazil-builds-monster-dams-in-the-amazon
                  > > >
                  > > > PEte
                  > > >
                  > > >
                  > >
                  >
                • Robert DeBonis
                  You are absolutely correct. Scientists estimate that the insects, animals and plants of the Amazon, Borneo and New Guinea Rainforest s contain substances that
                  Message 8 of 8 , Feb 16, 2013
                  • 0 Attachment
                     
                    You are absolutely correct. Scientists estimate that the insects, animals and plants of the Amazon, Borneo and New Guinea Rainforest's
                    contain substances that would cure most of the world's medical ills. Unfortunately we may never see them.
                     
                     
                    ----- Original Message -----
                    Sent: Saturday, February 16, 2013 3:53 PM
                    Subject: [anubiasdesign] Re: Brazil Damns

                     

                    Sad but also true. The impact of losing the Amazon to deforestation and Damns will in the end have a truly significant impact on the globe. We don't know what is being destroyed. That might be the most sad part of this.

                    --- In anubiasdesign@yahoogroups.com, "rdebon55" wrote:
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    > Unfortunately the main exports from Brazil are not Ornamental Fish, they are as per the World Bank and to quote www.tradingeconomics.com, the following, "Brazil is the world's second largest exporter of soybean, is responsible for 80 percent of the planet's orange juice and accounts for 35 percent of global exports of raw cane and refined sugar. Other exports include: iron ores and concentrates (16 percent of total exports), oil (8 percent), meat (4 percent), coffee (2 percent), clothing and cars", and they don't even mention Timber. In fact as far as I can see the entire Ornamental Fish Industry is a microscopic blip on the chart of the percentage of GDP for Brazil. No wonder they are building DAMS like crazy, the country needs electricity and lots of it to support their energy intensive industries. Brazil has the same problem that all developing countries have, except on a larger scale, How do they grow their economy to support their growing population? Unfortunately they do not feel at this time they have the luxury or perhaps the desire to place environmental issues above their economic concerns. This may change, but for the foreseeable future the environment is going to suffer and Brazilian fauna, ornamental fish included, will be harder to find; and by the way, as a keeper of Asian fish I can tell you Myanmar, New Guinea and Borneo will not be far behind.
                    > Bob DeBonis
                    >
                    > --- In anubiasdesign@yahoogroups.com, Joshua Wiegert wrote:
                    > >
                    > > It is sad and dam ironic (sorry...), Brazil pass some of the most forward thinking and restrictive export laws in the world, in order to protect their natural resources and the aquarium fish which they believed to be exploited. Brazil said that they valued the fishes living in these waters so much that they were willing to effectively destroy a not insignificant portion of their economy to protect them, killing the (legal) fish collecting and exporting business in brazil and driving collectors to other countries and regions (Myanmar and Peru thank you).
                    > >
                    > > Yet, ten years later, they want to destroy the habitat they sacrificed this all to preserve.
                    > >
                    > > Go figure.
                    > >
                    > >
                    > >
                    > > Sent from my iPhone
                    > >
                    > > On Feb 15, 2013, at 16:01, "galaxie_pete" wrote:
                    > >
                    > > > I know this topic has come up many times as it impacted the hobby. And I have read a snippet here and there. But I just listened to the story on NPR about what Brazil is doing - just stunning. I didn't realize just how incredible their plans were. 168 new damns going up in the Amazon alone in the next decade. 34 sizable damns by 2021.
                    > > >
                    > > > The Jirau hydroelectric dam going up on the Amazon River's largest tributary, the Madeira River, is massive. It contains 50 bus sized turbines (most in the world) and it is the 3rd largest damn in Brazil 14th largest in the world.
                    > > >
                    > > > The ecological effects must be just shattering. It will certainly affect the future of the world not just our hobby...
                    > > >
                    > > > The whole article is here.
                    > > > http://www.npr.org/2013/02/13/171902544/hungry-for-energy-brazil-builds-monster-dams-in-the-amazon
                    > > >
                    > > > PEte
                    > > >
                    > > >
                    > >
                    >

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