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Re: [anubiasdesign] Re: Question about an idea

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  • Rachel Ferral
    Ok, so this went past my original question.. Lol. I asked if it needed filter WithOut fish, but it s cool... I learned alot. Now what are your opinions on
    Message 1 of 17 , Jun 1, 2012
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      Ok, so this went past my original question.. Lol.  I asked if it needed filter WithOut fish, but it's cool... I learned alot.  

      Now what are your opinions on putting driftwood (found at the local lake already dried out on a drought bank) into the aquarium?  What is the best method of curing it or preparing it to put in? And the are a little too big for any of my pots to boil. 

      I already soaked them for two days (changing the water once) and also cleaned them under hot running water with a toothbrush.  Now they are drying again in a bucket.  Any suggestions?  Or yays or bays as to putting it in?

      Sent from my iPod

      On May 31, 2012, at 8:03 PM, "Edd" <edd@...> wrote:

       

      Might suggest studying salt water chemistry to understand how CO2 affects pH…and provides a daily diurnal swing from day to night, light to dark, assimilation to production.

       

       

      From: anubiasdesign@yahoogroups.com [mailto:anubiasdesign@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of David Williams
      Sent: Thursday, May 31, 2012 6:41 PM
      To: anubiasdesign@yahoogroups.com
      Subject: RE: [anubiasdesign] Re: Question about an idea

       

       

      This is a man that knows what he is talking about. Glad to see others know the myths are just that, myths. Turn a bubbler on at night or the plants will starve the fish of oxygen is my personal favorite, followed closely by the PH swing is a killer fallacy.

       

       

      BTW, the “dreaded PH swings” that people get so concerned about swing much harder in the natural environment of an Apisto (or about any fish from a natural environment with lots of plants) than you can hope to replicate in a low or moderate light planted tank….and you gotta push even a higher end planted setup to do it too, unless your water is super duper soft. The concerns behind the PH swings isn’t really about PH anyhow. The concerns from PH have to do with other properties of water (hardness), which can sometimes be more easily measured by measuring PH (in a non planted tank that is – those tests do not work in many planted tanks because those tests assume constant water parameters – read CO2 levels – that do not exist in planted tanks).

       

      PH swings from changing CO2 levels whether via plants themselves or plant feeding methods such as CO2 injection are not (in your aquarium, nor in nature) harmful to fish… not matter what the beginner FAQ’s for fish keeping may want you to believe. :P

       

      Goes the other way too. The drops in PH don’t harm and neither will they help – if you need soft water to breed a species, for example, dropping hard water’s PH via CO2 injection is meaningless… it is still hard water, and it is the PPM hardness that matters, NOT the PH you achieve from injecting tons of CO2.

       

      *Quick caveat – you can create some simply horrid conditions getting outside the realm of reality… I can create a toxic bath cranking up injected CO2 up high enough for example… but we’re staying within the realm of everyone not making super duper huge mistakes here.*

       

       

      From: anubiasdesign@yahoogroups.com [mailto:anubiasdesign@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Gerald
      Sent: Tuesday, May 29, 2012 11:26 AM
      To: anubiasdesign@yahoogroups.com
      Subject: [anubiasdesign] Re: Question about an idea

       

       

      The daily pH swing in a tank with little water movement is due to the plants removing CO2 faster than it can diffuse into the water from the air above. Removing the CO2 raises the pH. At night pH drops because CO2 diffuses into water from the air above faster than the plants are using it up, NOT because the plants are releasing CO2.

      --- In anubiasdesign@yahoogroups.com, "Gerald" <gbpottern@...> wrote:
      >
      > Dan is correct, the CO2 produced by plant respiration is trivial compared to the amount they use in photosynthesis. For submersed aquatic plants, CO2 is a precious resource, so most of the CO2 they produce is either used immediately (daytime) or stored within the plant's tissues (night) for reuse when the light returns.
      >
      > I dont see any need for a biological filter on a planted tank with no animals. Some current is beneficial (airstone or powerhead) but the plants will quickly absorb whatever little ammonium or nitrate is available and there won't be any food source for nitrifying bacteria (unless you're adding an ammonia source). I have kept many tanks with dense plants, small slow-water fish (killies, bettas, badis, elassoma), and no filter -- just light aeration to keep the water surface moving.
      >
      >
      > --- In anubiasdesign@yahoogroups.com, "dan_mcmonigle" <daphnia@> wrote:
      > >
      > >
      > >
      > > --- In anubiasdesign@yahoogroups.com, Rachel Ferral <squirtrg@> wrote:
      > > >
      > > > I thought plants released oxygen and took in carbon dioxide.....
      > >
      > > You are right. Plants release oxygen but only shortly after a photoperiod begins to shortly after it ends. Most plants absorb carbon dioxide around the clock, but a few species only absorb carbon dioxide at night and during the day depend on previously stored CO2 for photosynthesis. Another way to say this is all plants absorb CO2 at night, but since it takes less energy to absorb CO2 at lower ambient temperatures, some plants where there is a big day/night difference don't absorb CO2 during the hot day hours when more energy would be required.
      > >
      > > Someone with a vendetta against house plants started an urban myth some years ago that plants give off CO2 at night. They tried to imply that crib death was caused by having house plants.
      > >
      > > The justification for the myth was that plants do produce a trace of CO2 through some chemical activities, but 24/7, not just at night and in a trace so it just becomes part of the CO2 they are busy absorbing.
      > >
      > > Some people use the fact that water pH drops at night as "proof" that the urban myth is true, when the mechanism behind that drop is another story.
      > >
      >

      =
    • Bill Flowers
      On the driftwood. I basically clean them with a stiff brush and soak for a couple of days. Then add them to the tank. Haven t had any problem in 20 years. Bill
      Message 2 of 17 , Jun 1, 2012
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        On the driftwood. I basically clean them with a stiff brush and soak for a couple of days. Then add them to the tank. Haven't had any problem in 20 years.

        Bill F.

        On Fri, Jun 1, 2012 at 7:24 AM, Rachel Ferral <squirtrg@...> wrote:
         

        Ok, so this went past my original question.. Lol.  I asked if it needed filter WithOut fish, but it's cool... I learned alot.  

        Now what are your opinions on putting driftwood (found at the local lake already dried out on a drought bank) into the aquarium?  What is the best method of curing it or preparing it to put in? And the are a little too big for any of my pots to boil. 

        I already soaked them for two days (changing the water once) and also cleaned them under hot running water with a toothbrush.  Now they are drying again in a bucket.  Any suggestions?  Or yays or bays as to putting it in?

        Sent from my iPod

        On May 31, 2012, at 8:03 PM, "Edd" <edd@...> wrote:

         

        Might suggest studying salt water chemistry to understand how CO2 affects pH…and provides a daily diurnal swing from day to night, light to dark, assimilation to production.

         

         

        From: anubiasdesign@yahoogroups.com [mailto:anubiasdesign@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of David Williams
        Sent: Thursday, May 31, 2012 6:41 PM
        To: anubiasdesign@yahoogroups.com
        Subject: RE: [anubiasdesign] Re: Question about an idea

         

         

        This is a man that knows what he is talking about. Glad to see others know the myths are just that, myths. Turn a bubbler on at night or the plants will starve the fish of oxygen is my personal favorite, followed closely by the PH swing is a killer fallacy.

         

         

        BTW, the “dreaded PH swings” that people get so concerned about swing much harder in the natural environment of an Apisto (or about any fish from a natural environment with lots of plants) than you can hope to replicate in a low or moderate light planted tank….and you gotta push even a higher end planted setup to do it too, unless your water is super duper soft. The concerns behind the PH swings isn’t really about PH anyhow. The concerns from PH have to do with other properties of water (hardness), which can sometimes be more easily measured by measuring PH (in a non planted tank that is – those tests do not work in many planted tanks because those tests assume constant water parameters – read CO2 levels – that do not exist in planted tanks).

         

        PH swings from changing CO2 levels whether via plants themselves or plant feeding methods such as CO2 injection are not (in your aquarium, nor in nature) harmful to fish… not matter what the beginner FAQ’s for fish keeping may want you to believe. :P

         

        Goes the other way too. The drops in PH don’t harm and neither will they help – if you need soft water to breed a species, for example, dropping hard water’s PH via CO2 injection is meaningless… it is still hard water, and it is the PPM hardness that matters, NOT the PH you achieve from injecting tons of CO2.

         

        *Quick caveat – you can create some simply horrid conditions getting outside the realm of reality… I can create a toxic bath cranking up injected CO2 up high enough for example… but we’re staying within the realm of everyone not making super duper huge mistakes here.*

         

         

        From: anubiasdesign@yahoogroups.com [mailto:anubiasdesign@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Gerald
        Sent: Tuesday, May 29, 2012 11:26 AM
        To: anubiasdesign@yahoogroups.com
        Subject: [anubiasdesign] Re: Question about an idea

         

         

        The daily pH swing in a tank with little water movement is due to the plants removing CO2 faster than it can diffuse into the water from the air above. Removing the CO2 raises the pH. At night pH drops because CO2 diffuses into water from the air above faster than the plants are using it up, NOT because the plants are releasing CO2.

        --- In anubiasdesign@yahoogroups.com, "Gerald" <gbpottern@...> wrote:
        >
        > Dan is correct, the CO2 produced by plant respiration is trivial compared to the amount they use in photosynthesis. For submersed aquatic plants, CO2 is a precious resource, so most of the CO2 they produce is either used immediately (daytime) or stored within the plant's tissues (night) for reuse when the light returns.
        >
        > I dont see any need for a biological filter on a planted tank with no animals. Some current is beneficial (airstone or powerhead) but the plants will quickly absorb whatever little ammonium or nitrate is available and there won't be any food source for nitrifying bacteria (unless you're adding an ammonia source). I have kept many tanks with dense plants, small slow-water fish (killies, bettas, badis, elassoma), and no filter -- just light aeration to keep the water surface moving.
        >
        >
        > --- In anubiasdesign@yahoogroups.com, "dan_mcmonigle" <daphnia@> wrote:
        > >
        > >
        > >
        > > --- In anubiasdesign@yahoogroups.com, Rachel Ferral <squirtrg@> wrote:
        > > >
        > > > I thought plants released oxygen and took in carbon dioxide.....
        > >
        > > You are right. Plants release oxygen but only shortly after a photoperiod begins to shortly after it ends. Most plants absorb carbon dioxide around the clock, but a few species only absorb carbon dioxide at night and during the day depend on previously stored CO2 for photosynthesis. Another way to say this is all plants absorb CO2 at night, but since it takes less energy to absorb CO2 at lower ambient temperatures, some plants where there is a big day/night difference don't absorb CO2 during the hot day hours when more energy would be required.
        > >
        > > Someone with a vendetta against house plants started an urban myth some years ago that plants give off CO2 at night. They tried to imply that crib death was caused by having house plants.
        > >
        > > The justification for the myth was that plants do produce a trace of CO2 through some chemical activities, but 24/7, not just at night and in a trace so it just becomes part of the CO2 they are busy absorbing.
        > >
        > > Some people use the fact that water pH drops at night as "proof" that the urban myth is true, when the mechanism behind that drop is another story.
        > >
        >

        =


      • Gerald
        Agree with Bill F. Just soak; no need to re-dry it. Drying lengthens the time needed for it to sink. Also, repeated wetting and drying seems to make wood
        Message 3 of 17 , Jun 1, 2012
        • 0 Attachment
          Agree with Bill F. Just soak; no need to re-dry it. Drying lengthens the time needed for it to sink. Also, repeated wetting and drying seems to make wood decompose faster.

          "... the myths are just that, myths. Turn a bubbler on at night or the plants will starve the fish of oxygen is my personal favorite"

          There's a grain of truth in that one. If you have a thick mat of floating plants like duckweed, frogit, salvinia, etc that totally covers the water surface, the fish CAN suffocate at night or during a power failure. Not because the plants use up the oxygen, but the animals and bacteria do, and the plants are not replenishing O2 in the dark.

          --- In anubiasdesign@yahoogroups.com, Bill Flowers <billflower@...> wrote:
          >
          > On the driftwood. I basically clean them with a stiff brush and soak for a
          > couple of days. Then add them to the tank. Haven't had any problem in 20
          > years.
          >
          > Bill F.
          >
          > On Fri, Jun 1, 2012 at 7:24 AM, Rachel Ferral <squirtrg@...> wrote:
          >
          > > **
          > >
          > >
          > > Ok, so this went past my original question.. Lol. I asked if it needed
          > > filter WithOut fish, but it's cool... I learned alot.
          > >
          > > Now what are your opinions on putting driftwood (found at the local lake
          > > already dried out on a drought bank) into the aquarium? What is the best
          > > method of curing it or preparing it to put in? And the are a little too big
          > > for any of my pots to boil.
          > >
          > > I already soaked them for two days (changing the water once) and also
          > > cleaned them under hot running water with a toothbrush. Now they are
          > > drying again in a bucket. Any suggestions? Or yays or bays as to putting
          > > it in?
          > >
          > > Sent from my iPod
          > >
          > > On May 31, 2012, at 8:03 PM, "Edd" <edd@...> wrote:
          > >
          > >
          > >
          > > Might suggest studying salt water chemistry to understand how CO2 affects
          > > pH…and provides a daily diurnal swing from day to night, light to dark,
          > > assimilation to production.****
          > >
          > > ** **
          > >
          > > ** **
          > >
          > > *From:* anubiasdesign@yahoogroups.com [mailto:
          > > anubiasdesign@yahoogroups.com] *On Behalf Of *David Williams
          > > *Sent:* Thursday, May 31, 2012 6:41 PM
          > > *To:* <anubiasdesign@yahoogroups.com>anubiasdesign@yahoogroups.com
          > > *Subject:* RE: [anubiasdesign] Re: Question about an idea****
          > >
          > > ** **
          > >
          > > ****
          > >
          > > This is a man that knows what he is talking about. Glad to see others know
          > > the myths are just that, myths. Turn a bubbler on at night or the plants
          > > will starve the fish of oxygen is my personal favorite, followed closely by
          > > the PH swing is a killer fallacy.****
          > >
          > > ****
          > >
          > > ****
          > >
          > > BTW, the "dreaded PH swings" that people get so concerned about swing much
          > > harder in the natural environment of an Apisto (or about any fish from a
          > > natural environment with lots of plants) than you can hope to replicate in
          > > a low or moderate light planted tank….and you gotta push even a higher end
          > > planted setup to do it too, unless your water is super duper soft. The
          > > concerns behind the PH swings isn't *really* about PH anyhow. The
          > > concerns from PH have to do with other properties of water (hardness),
          > > which can sometimes be more easily measured by measuring PH (in a non
          > > planted tank that is – those tests do not work in many planted tanks
          > > because those tests assume constant water parameters – read CO2 levels –
          > > that do not exist in planted tanks).****
          > >
          > > ****
          > >
          > > PH swings from changing CO2 levels whether via plants themselves or plant
          > > feeding methods such as CO2 injection are not (in your aquarium, nor in
          > > nature) harmful to fish… not matter what the beginner FAQ's for fish
          > > keeping may want you to believe. :P ****
          > >
          > > ****
          > >
          > > Goes the other way too. The drops in PH don't harm and neither will they
          > > help – if you need soft water to breed a species, for example, dropping
          > > hard water's PH via CO2 injection is meaningless… it is still hard water,
          > > and it is the PPM hardness that matters, NOT the PH you achieve from
          > > injecting tons of CO2.****
          > >
          > > ****
          > >
          > > **Quick caveat – you can create some simply horrid conditions getting
          > > outside the realm of reality… I can create a toxic bath cranking up
          > > injected CO2 up high enough for example… but we're staying within the realm
          > > of everyone not making super duper huge mistakes here.******
          > >
          > > ****
          > >
          > > ****
          > >
          > > *From:* <anubiasdesign@yahoogroups.com>anubiasdesign@yahoogroups.com
          > > [mailto:anubiasdesign@yahoogroups.com] *On Behalf Of *Gerald
          > > *Sent:* Tuesday, May 29, 2012 11:26 AM
          > > *To:* <anubiasdesign@yahoogroups.com>anubiasdesign@yahoogroups.com
          > > *Subject:* [anubiasdesign] Re: Question about an idea****
          > >
          > > ****
          > >
          > > ****
          > >
          > > The daily pH swing in a tank with little water movement is due to the
          > > plants removing CO2 faster than it can diffuse into the water from the air
          > > above. Removing the CO2 raises the pH. At night pH drops because CO2
          > > diffuses into water from the air above faster than the plants are using it
          > > up, NOT because the plants are releasing CO2.
          > >
          > > --- In <anubiasdesign%40yahoogroups.com>anubiasdesign@yahoogroups.com,
          > > "Gerald" <gbpottern@> wrote:
          > > >
          > > > Dan is correct, the CO2 produced by plant respiration is trivial
          > > compared to the amount they use in photosynthesis. For submersed aquatic
          > > plants, CO2 is a precious resource, so most of the CO2 they produce is
          > > either used immediately (daytime) or stored within the plant's tissues
          > > (night) for reuse when the light returns.
          > > >
          > > > I dont see any need for a biological filter on a planted tank with no
          > > animals. Some current is beneficial (airstone or powerhead) but the plants
          > > will quickly absorb whatever little ammonium or nitrate is available and
          > > there won't be any food source for nitrifying bacteria (unless you're
          > > adding an ammonia source). I have kept many tanks with dense plants, small
          > > slow-water fish (killies, bettas, badis, elassoma), and no filter -- just
          > > light aeration to keep the water surface moving.
          > > >
          > > >
          > > > --- In <anubiasdesign%40yahoogroups.com>anubiasdesign@yahoogroups.com,
          > > "dan_mcmonigle" <daphnia@> wrote:
          > > > >
          > > > >
          > > > >
          > > > > --- In <anubiasdesign%40yahoogroups.com>anubiasdesign@yahoogroups.com,
          > > Rachel Ferral <squirtrg@> wrote:
          > > > > >
          > > > > > I thought plants released oxygen and took in carbon dioxide.....
          > > > >
          > > > > You are right. Plants release oxygen but only shortly after a
          > > photoperiod begins to shortly after it ends. Most plants absorb carbon
          > > dioxide around the clock, but a few species only absorb carbon dioxide at
          > > night and during the day depend on previously stored CO2 for
          > > photosynthesis. Another way to say this is all plants absorb CO2 at night,
          > > but since it takes less energy to absorb CO2 at lower ambient temperatures,
          > > some plants where there is a big day/night difference don't absorb CO2
          > > during the hot day hours when more energy would be required.
          > > > >
          > > > > Someone with a vendetta against house plants started an urban myth
          > > some years ago that plants give off CO2 at night. They tried to imply that
          > > crib death was caused by having house plants.
          > > > >
          > > > > The justification for the myth was that plants do produce a trace of
          > > CO2 through some chemical activities, but 24/7, not just at night and in a
          > > trace so it just becomes part of the CO2 they are busy absorbing.
          > > > >
          > > > > Some people use the fact that water pH drops at night as "proof" that
          > > the urban myth is true, when the mechanism behind that drop is another
          > > story.
          > > > >
          > > >****
          > >
          > > ****
          > >
          > > =
          > >
          > >
          > >
          >
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