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Re: [anubiasdesign] Gut loading blackworms

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  • brad johnson
    Thanks lainey!
    Message 1 of 17 , Jan 9, 2011
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      Thanks lainey!

      On Jan 9, 2011 3:26 PM, "Lainey Alexander" <lainealex@...> wrote:
      > I am growing a colony of blackworms using sinking pellets, both fish
      > based and vegetarian. I know you can feed them lots of other stuff,
      > but this is very easy and they are breeding like mad. I have them in
      > a bucket with spring water at room temps with a sponge filter and
      > shredded paper bags on the bottom of the bucket. They "eat" the bags
      > somehow. But also the sinking pellets.
      >
      > Lainey
      > http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com
      >
      > On Jan 9, 2011, at 2:07 PM, TylerT wrote:
      >
      >> I have a Congo Eel that seems really hesitant in eating frozen
      >> bloodworms and glassworms plus most of my other fish seem to
      >> strongly prefer blackworms.
      >>
      >> I know that blackworms are never fed in LFS and they can be there
      >> for up to a month, so I would think they would be pretty
      >> nutritionally worthless after that. What kind of stuff would live
      >> blackworms eat?
      >>
      >>
      >
    • brad johnson
      Thanks to you lainey I m going to be doing this this week!
      Message 2 of 17 , Jan 9, 2011
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        Thanks to you lainey I'm going to be doing this this week!

        On Jan 9, 2011 9:29 PM, "Lainey Alexander" <lainealex@...> wrote:
        > I am replacing the bags once they get "eaten" (IE the worms shred
        > them into pulp) which is about once every six weeks to two months.
        >
        > I was worried about how anemic and wimpy the blackworms were that I
        > purchased and then starved in the refrigerator, and no, these ones
        > aren't like that in any way. They are super-wriggly and dark and just
        > seem like terrific fish food to me. My only regret is that I'm not
        > feeding them something better than fish pellets, since I don't like
        > to use prepared commercial feeds, but man, it's so easy! I just can't
        > resist.
        >
        > Apparently, when they are at room temps they need to be fed, whereas
        > in the cold, they slow down their metabolisms and can exist without
        > eating. So the room temps only make them weak if you are also
        > starving them at room temps.
        >
        > Lainey
        > http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com
        >
        > On Jan 9, 2011, at 9:18 PM, Tyler wrote:
        >
        >> ...wow now that is serious black worm keeping!
        >>
        >> How often have you been replacing the bags? Also, do they seem to
        >> be very healthy, or do they come out weak from being kept at room
        >> temp?
        >>
        >> --- On Sun, 1/9/11, Lainey Alexander <lainealex@...> wrote:
        >>
        >> From: Lainey Alexander <lainealex@...>
        >> Subject: Re: [anubiasdesign] Gut loading blackworms
        >> To: anubiasdesign@yahoogroups.com
        >> Date: Sunday, January 9, 2011, 8:32 PM
        >>
        >>
        >> I am using a five gallon bucket and filling it about 3/4 or so. I
        >> place torn pieces of brown paper bags on the bottom of the bucket,
        >> held in place by small rocks. I'm using tankwater (not spring water
        >> - my spring water is for my daphnia) and doing a 20 percent WC once
        >> weekly. Using a sponge filter with the bubbler on full blast.
        >> Keeping the water at room temps. Feeding vegetable pellets or
        >> sinking wafers once daily, not enough to get an odor, but just
        >> under this amount. The population seems to be exploding.
        >>
        >>
        >> All of this info came thru Mike Hellweg and a couple other reliable
        >> fish guys.
        >>
        >> Lainey
        >> http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com
        >>
        >> On Jan 9, 2011, at 7:43 PM, Michael Meyer wrote:
        >>
        >>>
        >>>
        >>> Lainey how much water to worms do you keep? My cultures seem to
        >>> crash and I am guessing too many worms to my water volume.
        >>> Also, how often and % water do you change?
        >>>
        >>>
        >>>
        >>> Thanks!
        >>>
        >>> Mike
        >>>
        >>>
        >>>
        >>> From: anubiasdesign@yahoogroups.com
        >>> [mailto:anubiasdesign@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Lainey Alexander
        >>> Sent: Sunday, January 09, 2011 1:09 PM
        >>> To: anubiasdesign@yahoogroups.com
        >>> Subject: Re: [anubiasdesign] Gut loading blackworms
        >>>
        >>>
        >>>
        >>>
        >>>
        >>> I am growing a colony of blackworms using sinking pellets, both
        >>> fish based and vegetarian. I know you can feed them lots of other
        >>> stuff, but this is very easy and they are breeding like mad. I
        >>> have them in a bucket with spring water at room temps with a
        >>> sponge filter and shredded paper bags on the bottom of the bucket.
        >>> They "eat" the bags somehow. But also the sinking pellets.
        >>>
        >>>
        >>> Lainey
        >>>
        >>> http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com
        >>>
        >>>
        >>>
        >>> On Jan 9, 2011, at 2:07 PM, TylerT wrote:
        >>>
        >>>
        >>>
        >>>
        >>>
        >>>
        >>> I have a Congo Eel that seems really hesitant in eating frozen
        >>> bloodworms and glassworms plus most of my other fish seem to
        >>> strongly prefer blackworms.
        >>>
        >>> I know that blackworms are never fed in LFS and they can be there
        >>> for up to a month, so I would think they would be pretty
        >>> nutritionally worthless after that. What kind of stuff would live
        >>> blackworms eat?
        >>>
        >>>
        >>>
        >>>
        >>>
        >>>
        >>>
        >>>
        >>
        >>
        >>
        >
      • Redragon40@aol.com
        Lainey How many worms do you start out with in the bucket? (volume wise) Carol
        Message 3 of 17 , Jan 9, 2011
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          Lainey How many worms do  you start out with in the bucket? (volume wise)
          Carol   < " )))><
           
          In a message dated 1/9/2011 8:41:15 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, lainealex@... writes:
           

          I am using a five gallon bucket and filling it about 3/4 or so. I place torn pieces of brown paper bags on the bottom of the bucket, held in place by small rocks. I'm using tankwater (not spring water - my spring water is for my daphnia) and doing a 20 percent WC once weekly. Using a sponge filter with the bubbler on full blast. Keeping the water at room temps. Feeding vegetable pellets or sinking wafers once daily, not enough to get an odor, but just under this amount. The population seems to be exploding. 


          All of this info came thru Mike Hellweg and a couple other reliable fish guys.

          On Jan 9, 2011, at 7:43 PM, Michael Meyer wrote:

           

          Lainey how much water to worms do you keep?  My cultures seem to crash and I am guessing too many worms to my water volume. &nb sp;  Also, how often and % water do you change?

          Thanks!

          Mike

          From: anubiasdesign@yahoogroups.com [mailto:anubiasdesign@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Lainey Alexander
          Sent: Sunday, January 09, 2011 1:09 PM
          To: anubiasdesign@yahoogroups.com
          Subject: Re: [anubiasdesign] Gut loading blackworms



          I am growing a colony of blackworms using sinking pellets, both fish based and vegetarian. I know you can feed them lots of other stuff, but this is very easy and they are breeding like mad. I have them in a bucket with spring water at room temps with a sponge filter and shredded paper bags on the bottom of the bucket. They "eat" the bags somehow. But also the sinking pellets.

          On Jan 9, 2011, at 2:07 PM, TylerT wrote:



           

          I have a Congo Eel that seems really hesitant in eating frozen bloodworms and glassworms plus most of my other fish seem to strongly prefer blackworms.

          I know that blackworms are never fed in LFS and they can be there for up to a month, so I would think they would be pretty nutritionally worthless after that. What kind of stuff would live blackworms eat?







        • Tyler
          Thanks!  I think I will have to start tomorrow when we get in a new shipment of blackworms at work! ... From: Lainey Alexander
          Message 4 of 17 , Jan 9, 2011
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            Thanks!  I think I will have to start tomorrow when we get in a new shipment of blackworms at work!

            --- On Sun, 1/9/11, Lainey Alexander <lainealex@...> wrote:

            From: Lainey Alexander <lainealex@...>
            Subject: Re: [anubiasdesign] Gut loading blackworms
            To: anubiasdesign@yahoogroups.com
            Date: Sunday, January 9, 2011, 9:23 PM

             

            I am replacing the bags once they get "eaten" (IE the worms shred them into pulp) which is about once every six weeks to two months.


            I was worried about how anemic and wimpy the blackworms were that I purchased and then starved in the refrigerator, and no, these ones aren't like that in any way. They are super-wriggly and dark and just seem like terrific fish food to me. My only regret is that I'm not feeding them something better than fish pellets, since I don't like to use prepared commercial feeds, but man, it's so easy! I just can't resist.

            Apparently, when they are at room temps they need to be fed, whereas in the cold, they slow down their metabolisms and can exist without eating. So the room temps only make them weak if you are also starving them at room temps.

            On Jan 9, 2011, at 9:18 PM, Tyler wrote:

             

            ...wow now that is serious black worm keeping!

            How often have you been replacing the bags?  Also, do they seem to be very healthy, or do they come out weak from being kept at room temp?

            --- On Sun, 1/9/11, Lainey Alexander <lainealex@...> wrote:

            From: Lainey Alexander <lainealex@...>
            Subject: Re: [anubiasdesign] Gut loading blackworms
            To: anubiasdesign@yahoogroups.com
            Date: Sunday, January 9, 2011, 8:32 PM

             

            I am using a five gallon bucket and filling it about 3/4 or so. I place torn pieces of brown paper bags on the bottom of the bucket, held in place by small rocks. I'm using tankwater (not spring water - my spring water is for my daphnia) and doing a 20 percent WC once weekly. Using a sponge filter with the bubbler on full blast. Keeping the water at room temps. Feeding vegetable pellets or sinking wafers once daily, not enough to get an odor, but just under this amount. The population seems to be exploding. 


            All of this info came thru Mike Hellweg and a couple other reliable fish guys.

            On Jan 9, 2011, at 7:43 PM, Michael Meyer wrote:

             

            Lainey how much water to worms do you keep?  My cultures seem to crash and I am guessing too many worms to my water volume.    Also, how often and % water do you change?

             

            Thanks!

            Mike

             

            From: anubiasdesign@yahoogroups.com [mailto:anubiasdesign@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Lainey Alexander
            Sent: Sunday, January 09, 2011 1:09 PM
            To: anubiasdesign@yahoogroups.com
            Subject: Re: [anubiasdesign] Gut loading blackworms

             



            I am growing a colony of blackworms using sinking pellets, both fish based and vegetarian. I know you can feed them lots of other stuff, but this is very easy and they are breeding like mad. I have them in a bucket with spring water at room temps with a sponge filter and shredded paper bags on the bottom of the bucket. They "eat" the bags somehow. But also the sinking pellets.

             

            On Jan 9, 2011, at 2:07 PM, TylerT wrote:



             

            I have a Congo Eel that seems really hesitant in eating frozen bloodworms and glassworms plus most of my other fish seem to strongly prefer blackworms.

            I know that blackworms are never fed in LFS and they can be there for up to a month, so I would think they would be pretty nutritionally worthless after that. What kind of stuff would live blackworms eat?










          • Lainey Alexander
            I would say I started with 1/8 lb, and now I have 1/4 lb, and I think the bucket would support about 1/3 lb max, just my sense. In other words, I better get
            Message 5 of 17 , Jan 9, 2011
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              I would say I started with 1/8 lb, and now I have 1/4 lb, and I think the bucket would support about 1/3 lb max, just my sense. In other words, I better get feeding:)

              On Jan 9, 2011, at 10:33 PM, Redragon40@... wrote:

               

              Lainey How many worms do  you start out with in the bucket? (volume wise)
              Carol   < " )))><
               
              In a message dated 1/9/2011 8:41:15 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, lainealex@... writes:
               

              I am using a five gallon bucket and filling it about 3/4 or so. I place torn pieces of brown paper bags on the bottom of the bucket, held in place by small rocks. I'm using tankwater (not spring water - my spring water is for my daphnia) and doing a 20 percent WC once weekly. Using a sponge filter with the bubbler on full blast. Keeping the water at room temps. Feeding vegetable pellets or sinking wafers once daily, not enough to get an odor, but just under this amount. The population seems to be exploding. 


              All of this info came thru Mike Hellweg and a couple other reliable fish guys.

              On Jan 9, 2011, at 7:43 PM, Michael Meyer wrote:

               

              Lainey how much water to worms do you keep?  My cultures seem to crash and I am guessing too many worms to my water volume. &nb sp;  Also, how often and % water do you change?

              Thanks!

              Mike

              From: anubiasdesign@yahoogroups.com [mailto:anubiasdesign@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Lainey Alexander
              Sent: Sunday, January 09, 2011 1:09 PM
              To: anubiasdesign@yahoogroups.com
              Subject: Re: [anubiasdesign] Gut loading blackworms



              I am growing a colony of blackworms using sinking pellets, both fish based and vegetarian. I know you can feed them lots of other stuff, but this is very easy and they are breeding like mad. I have them in a bucket with spring water at room temps with a sponge filter and shredded paper bags on the bottom of the bucket. They "eat" the bags somehow. But also the sinking pellets.

              On Jan 9, 2011, at 2:07 PM, TylerT wrote:



               

              I have a Congo Eel that seems really hesitant in eating frozen bloodworms and glassworms plus most of my other fish seem to strongly prefer blackworms.

              I know that blackworms are never fed in LFS and they can be there for up to a month, so I would think they would be pretty nutritionally worthless after that. What kind of stuff would live blackworms eat?










            • Redragon40@aol.com
              Thanks, I think I ll try it the next time I get some blackworms. Carol
              Message 6 of 17 , Jan 9, 2011
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                Thanks, I think I'll try it the next time I get some blackworms.
                Carol  < " )))><
                 
                In a message dated 1/9/2011 11:05:44 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, lainealex@... writes:
                 

                I would say I started with 1/8 lb, and now I have 1/4 lb, and I think the bucket would support about 1/3 lb max, just my sense. In other words, I better get feeding:)


                On Jan 9, 2011, at 10:33 PM, Redragon40@... wrote:

                 

                Lainey How many worms do  you start out with in the bucket? (volume wise)
                Carol   < " )))><
                 
                In a message dated 1/9/2011 8:41:15 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, lainealex@... writes:
                 

                I am using a five gallon bucket and filling i t about 3/4 or so. I place torn pieces of brown paper bags on the bottom of the bucket, held in place by small rocks. I'm using tankwater (not spring water - my spring water is for my daphnia) and doing a 20 percent WC once weekly. Using a sponge filter with the bubbler on full blast. Keeping the water at room temps. Feeding vegetable pellets or sinking wafers once daily, not enough to get an odor, but just under this amount. The population seems to be exploding. 


                All of this info came thru Mike Hellweg and a couple other reliable fish guys.

                On Jan 9, 2011, at 7:43 PM, Michael Meyer wrote:

                 

                Lainey how much water to worms do you keep?  My cultures seem to crash and I am guessing too many worms to my water volume.&nbs p;&nb sp;  Also, how often and % water do you change?

                Thanks!

                Mike

                From: anubiasdesign@yahoogroups.com [mailto:anubiasdesign@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Lainey Alexander
                Sent: Sunday, January 09, 2011 1:09 PM
                To: anubiasdesign@yahoogroups.com
                Subject: Re: [anubiasdesign] Gut loading blackworms



                I am growing a colony of blackworms using sinking pellets, both fish based and vegetarian. I know you can feed them lots of other stuff, but this is very easy and they are breeding like mad. I have them in a bucket with spring water at room temps with a sponge filter and shredded paper bags on the bottom of the bucket. They "eat" the bags somehow. But also the sinking pellets.


                Lainey

                On Jan 9, 2011, at 2:07 PM, TylerT wrote:



                 

                I have a Congo Eel that seems really hesitant in eating frozen bloodworms and glassworms plus most of my other fish seem to strongly prefer blackworms.

                I know that blackworms are never fed in LFS and they can be there for up to a month, so I would think they would be pretty nutritionally worthless after that. What kind of stuff would live blackworms eat?








                < /div>


              • leeh920226@aol.com
                ... How much can you harvest per week from that amount to start? I feed about 1/4 lb per week of blackworms. Lee Harper Media, PA
                Message 7 of 17 , Jan 9, 2011
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                  In a message dated 1/9/11 11:05:42 PM, lainealex@... writes:



                  I would say I started with 1/8 lb, and now I have 1/4 lb, and I think the bucket would support about 1/3 lb max, just my sense. In other words, I better get feeding:)



                  How much can you harvest per week from that amount to start?  I feed about 1/4 lb per week of blackworms.


                  Lee Harper
                  Media, PA
                • Lainey Alexander
                  I think I can harvest an ounce per week right now, with about 1/4 lb in there, and keep the level steady. If I needed 1/4 lb per week I would have to get
                  Message 8 of 17 , Jan 9, 2011
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                    I think I can harvest an ounce per week right now, with about 1/4 lb in there, and keep the level steady. If I needed 1/4 lb per week I would have to get aquariums versus buckets and use way more worms to start or at least grow them until there were way more. I'm thinking to harvest 1/4 lb weekly you probably need four lb or so going strong. So maybe two 20 gs with 2 lbs in each? Just guessing...

                    All my fish are small, so the worms are outpacing my needs so far.

                    On Jan 10, 2011, at 12:24 AM, leeh920226@... wrote:

                     


                    In a message dated 1/9/11 11:05:42 PM, lainealex@... writes:



                    I would say I started with 1/8 lb, and now I have 1/4 lb, and I think the bucket would support about 1/3 lb max, just my sense. In other words, I better get feeding:)



                    How much can you harvest per week from that amount to start?  I feed about 1/4 lb per week of blackworms.


                    Lee Harper
                    Media, PA


                  • Gerald
                    I agree with that. I ve kept them 2 to 3 months refrigerated without feeding and they dont appear to lose any weight, color, or vigor. But I also agree
                    Message 9 of 17 , Jan 10, 2011
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                      I agree with that. I've kept them 2 to 3 months refrigerated without feeding and they dont appear to lose any weight, color, or vigor. But I also agree feeding/gut-loading would be beneficial. During cold weather I keep some in a large cooler outside and feed lightly. In summer at LOW density they do great living in the sand/leaf litter in my Badis and Elassoma breeding tanks outside that get up to 90F.

                      --- In anubiasdesign@yahoogroups.com, Lainey Alexander <lainealex@...> wrote:
                      >
                      > Apparently, when they are at room temps they need to be fed, whereas in the cold, they slow down their metabolisms and can exist without eating. So the room temps only make them weak if you are also starving them at room temps.
                      >
                    • leeh920226@aol.com
                      ... If my math is correct, 4 times your recommendations should, in theory, yield 4 ounces per week. So, four buckets might do it. Now the question is what
                      Message 10 of 17 , Jan 10, 2011
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                        In a message dated 1/10/11 1:38:29 AM, lainealex@... writes:



                        I think I can harvest an ounce per week right now, with about 1/4 lb in there, and keep the level steady. If I needed 1/4 lb per week I would have to get aquariums versus buckets and use way more worms to start or at least grow them until there were way more. I'm thinking to harvest 1/4 lb weekly you probably need four lb or so going strong. So maybe two 20 gs with 2 lbs in each? Just guessing...




                        If my math is correct, 4 times your recommendations should, in theory, yield 4 ounces per week. So, four buckets might do it. Now the question is what temperature? I keep pounds of black worms for weeks at about 50-60 degrees without significant loss, but no multiplication and no feedimg. At what temperature will they feed, grow and not die?


                        Lee harper
                        media, PA
                      • Lainey Alexander
                        I agree, my math wasn t linear, but for some reason I am projecting that to produce 1/4 lb per week you might need a ton of worms like 4 lbs IF you want to do
                        Message 11 of 17 , Jan 10, 2011
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                          I agree, my math wasn't linear, but for some reason I am projecting that to produce 1/4 lb per week you might need a ton of worms like 4 lbs IF you want to do it in less containers - but I hadn't thought of the four-bucket plan, which would work, why not?

                          I think you need to approach 70 for the temps to maximize reproduction. I would say 68 to 80 would be ideal...and like I say, the feeding works well if you feed daily, but not enough to cause a foul odor.

                          On Jan 10, 2011, at 10:27 AM, leeh920226@... wrote:

                           


                          In a message dated 1/10/11 1:38:29 AM, lainealex@... writes:



                          I think I can harvest an ounce per week right now, with about 1/4 lb in there, and keep the level steady. If I needed 1/4 lb per week I would have to get aquariums versus buckets and use way more worms to start or at least grow them until there were way more. I'm thinking to harvest 1/4 lb weekly you probably need four lb or so going strong. So maybe two 20 gs with 2 lbs in each? Just guessing...




                          If my math is correct, 4 times your recommendations should, in theory, yield 4 ounces per week. So, four buckets might do it. Now the question is what temperature? I keep pounds of black worms for weeks at about 50-60 degrees without significant loss, but no multiplication and no feedimg. At what temperature will they feed, grow and not die?


                          Lee harper
                          media, PA


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