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Re: Macrostroma eating eggs

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  • plantsrocksandfish
    Thanks Mark, I don t think that is the answer. They are in one tank of a row of 20 longs. Long sides face each other with cardboard between so they can not see
    Message 1 of 12 , Nov 1, 2009
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      Thanks Mark, I don't think that is the answer. They are in one tank of a row of 20 longs. Long sides face each other with cardboard between so they can not see the fish in the other tanks. One end faces a large bush outside and the only thing open is the one small end that I can see inside and feed from. Even the top is covered with a row of tanks above them. Grating and then the top tanks sit on plywood and there are hiding places in the tank.
      Not always but in most bettas the male is the dominate fish and starts spawning. I'm thinking that with these fish the female may be dominate and might be best to pull her. I hesitate because I don't want to do anything to upset the pair bond. They are always within a couple of inches from each other.

      --- In anubiasdesign@yahoogroups.com, "Anubias Design" <anubiasdesign@...> wrote:
      >
      > Try covering the tank to block out all outside stimuli. You can use black trash bags and fold them so that the front is open. When you see that they have spawned, cover the front. Cut a tiny window somewhere so you can see what is happening and feed the female.
      > Mark
      >
      > --- In anubiasdesign@yahoogroups.com, "plantsrocksandfish" <onsiteinatlanta@> wrote:
      > >
      > > This has been posted before on this and other forums, by others, but who pays attention unless it affect them? Now it does affect me. My male has eaten them three times. Most of the posts, I have looked at, say just give them time. I just can't accept this. Drop in barometric pressure, drop in depth of water, adding fresh water, change of light, temperature, etc all might have more to do with it. As a side, my fish were F-1 but the male wasn't eating. I feed heavy on live foods including black worms (I know what is said about the worms but the origional breeder was feeding them and I never had a problem when feeding good, clean and healthy worms) Bottom line was I tried feeding fruit flies. That did it and both fish now eat everything including flake. I wouldn't say the fish would not have started to eat on his own, especially since the female was eating, but if you saw the way my fish attacked the flies, well I found one key. Now I am hoping some one in the group might have some ideas on something I might try. No, I never seperated the pair. I hesitated because of a strong bond pair. They are always together.
      > >
      >
    • Al Anderson
      They may be seeing themselves in the reflection of the glass bottom of the tank above. Cover the top like Mark suggested. Al Anderson 6246 N.Rural St.
      Message 2 of 12 , Nov 1, 2009
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        They may be seeing themselves in the reflection of the glass bottom of the tank above. Cover the top like Mark suggested.

         

         

        Al Anderson

        6246 N.Rural St.

        Indianapolis IN. 46220

        317 253 2170

        317 445 9570

        augustand@...

        No Banker Bailouts !

        "If Fox, CBS, ABC, NBC are

        all paid to tell the same lie

        the American people will

        believe and pay for it with

        their votes."

         

        From: anubiasdesign@yahoogroups.com [mailto:anubiasdesign@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of plantsrocksandfish
        Sent: Sunday, November 01, 2009 10:32 AM
        To: anubiasdesign@yahoogroups.com
        Subject: [anubiasdesign] Re: Macrostroma eating eggs

         

         

        Thanks Mark, I don't think that is the answer. They are in one tank of a row of 20 longs. Long sides face each other with cardboard between so they can not see the fish in the other tanks. One end faces a large bush outside and the only thing open is the one small end that I can see inside and feed from. Even the top is covered with a row of tanks above them. Grating and then the top tanks sit on plywood and there are hiding places in the tank.
        Not always but in most bettas the male is the dominate fish and starts spawning. I'm thinking that with these fish the female may be dominate and might be best to pull her. I hesitate because I don't want to do anything to upset the pair bond. They are always within a couple of inches from each other.

        --- In anubiasdesign@yahoogroups.com, "Anubias Design" <anubiasdesign@...> wrote:

        >
        > Try covering the tank to block out all outside stimuli. You can use black
        trash bags and fold them so that the front is open. When you see that they have spawned, cover the front. Cut a tiny window somewhere so you can see what is happening and feed the female.
        > Mark
        >
        > --- In anubiasdesign@yahoogroups.com,
        "plantsrocksandfish" <onsiteinatlanta@> wrote:
        > >
        > > This has been posted before on this and other forums, by others, but
        who pays attention unless it affect them? Now it does affect me. My male has eaten them three times. Most of the posts, I have looked at, say just give them time. I just can't accept this. Drop in barometric pressure, drop in depth of water, adding fresh water, change of light, temperature, etc all might have more to do with it. As a side, my fish were F-1 but the male wasn't eating. I feed heavy on live foods including black worms (I know what is said about the worms but the origional breeder was feeding them and I never had a problem when feeding good, clean and healthy worms) Bottom line was I tried feeding fruit flies. That did it and both fish now eat everything including flake. I wouldn't say the fish would not have started to eat on his own, especially since the female was eating, but if you saw the way my fish attacked the flies, well I found one key. Now I am hoping some one in the group might have some ideas on something I might try. No, I never seperated the pair. I hesitated because of a strong bond pair. They are always together.
        > >
        >

      • Gerald Griffin
        Yes that is the answer!  The issue with them is any motion outside of the tank.  That is what Mark was talking about. As to the dominant fish I have years
        Message 3 of 12 , Nov 1, 2009
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          Yes that is the answer!  The issue with them is any motion outside of the tank.  That is what Mark was talking about.

          As to the dominant fish I have years and years of observation and pick up on the slightest things.  In many mouthbrooders particularly the unimaculata complex the female is the dominant fish.  Particularly in the unimaculata complex I have seen pair bonds form and the female defends the male while holding and will kill intruders to their territory.  The complex has also been observed to bi-parental in 4 known cases.  They also lay 2 types of eggs, one is the fertile egg and the other is a nourishment egg.  It is unclear whether the developing fry eat them (which I suspect) or the male eats them.

          --- On Sun, 11/1/09, plantsrocksandfish <onsiteinatlanta@...> wrote:

          From: plantsrocksandfish <onsiteinatlanta@...>
          Subject: [anubiasdesign] Re: Macrostroma eating eggs
          To: anubiasdesign@yahoogroups.com
          Date: Sunday, November 1, 2009, 9:31 AM

           

          Thanks Mark, I don't think that is the answer. They are in one tank of a row of 20 longs. Long sides face each other with cardboard between so they can not see the fish in the other tanks. One end faces a large bush outside and the only thing open is the one small end that I can see inside and feed from. Even the top is covered with a row of tanks above them. Grating and then the top tanks sit on plywood and there are hiding places in the tank.
          Not always but in most bettas the male is the dominate fish and starts spawning. I'm thinking that with these fish the female may be dominate and might be best to pull her. I hesitate because I don't want to do anything to upset the pair bond. They are always within a couple of inches from each other.

          --- In anubiasdesign@ yahoogroups. com, "Anubias Design" <anubiasdesign@ ...> wrote:
          >
          > Try covering the tank to block out all outside stimuli. You can use black trash bags and fold them so that the front is open. When you see that they have spawned, cover the front. Cut a tiny window somewhere so you can see what is happening and feed the female.
          > Mark
          >
          > --- In anubiasdesign@ yahoogroups. com, "plantsrocksandfish " <onsiteinatlanta@ > wrote:
          > >
          > > This has been posted before on this and other forums, by others, but who pays attention unless it affect them? Now it does affect me. My male has eaten them three times. Most of the posts, I have looked at, say just give them time. I just can't accept this. Drop in barometric pressure, drop in depth of water, adding fresh water, change of light, temperature, etc all might have more to do with it. As a side, my fish were F-1 but the male wasn't eating. I feed heavy on live foods including black worms (I know what is said about the worms but the origional breeder was feeding them and I never had a problem when feeding good, clean and healthy worms) Bottom line was I tried feeding fruit flies. That did it and both fish now eat everything including flake. I wouldn't say the fish would not have started to eat on his own, especially since the female was eating, but if you saw the way my fish attacked the flies, well I found one key. Now I am hoping some one in the group might have some ideas on something I might try. No, I never seperated the pair. I hesitated because of a strong bond pair. They are always together.
          > >
          >


        • Anubias Design
          It sounds like there are a number of outside influences here, from whatever happens outside the window to movement in the room.  You will definitely want to
          Message 4 of 12 , Nov 1, 2009
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            It sounds like there are a number of outside influences here, from whatever happens outside the window to movement in the room.  You will definitely want to cover the back end so they can't see outside and I would cover the top as well because you've got light and shadows from outside hitting that in addition to the ambient room light.  If you don't want to cover the front end, you can try covering the other two.  If that still doesn't work, I'd cover the front.  Before you try removing the female, try removing the stimuli.
             
            As Gerald said, in many mouthbrooders the female is the dominant partner and the one who initiates spawning.
            Mark


            --- On Sun, 11/1/09, Gerald Griffin <herpchat@...> wrote:

            From: Gerald Griffin <herpchat@...>
            Subject: Re: [anubiasdesign] Re: Macrostroma eating eggs
            To: anubiasdesign@yahoogroups.com
            Date: Sunday, November 1, 2009, 11:04 AM

             
            Yes that is the answer!  The issue with them is any motion outside of the tank.  That is what Mark was talking about.

            As to the dominant fish I have years and years of observation and pick up on the slightest things.  In many mouthbrooders particularly the unimaculata complex the female is the dominant fish.  Particularly in the unimaculata complex I have seen pair bonds form and the female defends the male while holding and will kill intruders to their territory.  The complex has also been observed to bi-parental in 4 known cases.  They also lay 2 types of eggs, one is the fertile egg and the other is a nourishment egg.  It is unclear whether the developing fry eat them (which I suspect) or the male eats them.

            --- On Sun, 11/1/09, plantsrocksandfish <onsiteinatlanta@ yahoo.com> wrote:

            From: plantsrocksandfish <onsiteinatlanta@ yahoo.com>
            Subject: [anubiasdesign] Re: Macrostroma eating eggs
            To: anubiasdesign@ yahoogroups. com
            Date: Sunday, November 1, 2009, 9:31 AM

             
            Thanks Mark, I don't think that is the answer. They are in one tank of a row of 20 longs. Long sides face each other with cardboard between so they can not see the fish in the other tanks. One end faces a large bush outside and the only thing open is the one small end that I can see inside and feed from. Even the top is covered with a row of tanks above them. Grating and then the top tanks sit on plywood and there are hiding places in the tank.
            Not always but in most bettas the male is the dominate fish and starts spawning. I'm thinking that with these fish the female may be dominate and might be best to pull her. I hesitate because I don't want to do anything to upset the pair bond. They are always within a couple of inches from each other.

            --- In anubiasdesign@ yahoogroups. com, "Anubias Design" <anubiasdesign@ ...> wrote:
            >
            > Try covering the tank to block out all outside stimuli. You can use black trash bags and fold them so that the front is open. When you see that they have spawned, cover the front. Cut a tiny window somewhere so you can see what is happening and feed the female.
            > Mark
            >
            > --- In anubiasdesign@ yahoogroups. com, "plantsrocksandfish " <onsiteinatlanta@ > wrote:
            > >
            > > This has been posted before on this and other forums, by others, but who pays attention unless it affect them? Now it does affect me. My male has eaten them three times. Most of the posts, I have looked at, say just give them time. I just can't accept this. Drop in barometric pressure, drop in depth of water, adding fresh water, change of light, temperature, etc all might have more to do with it. As a side, my fish were F-1 but the male wasn't eating. I feed heavy on live foods including black worms (I know what is said about the worms but the origional breeder was feeding them and I never had a problem when feeding good, clean and healthy worms) Bottom line was I tried feeding fruit flies. That did it and both fish now eat everything including flake. I wouldn't say the fish would not have started to eat on his own, especially since the female was eating, but if you saw the way my fish attacked the flies, well I found one key. Now I am hoping some one in the group might have some ideas on something I might try. No, I never seperated the pair. I hesitated because of a strong bond pair. They are always together.
            > >
            >



          • Gerald Griffin
            Howdy Mark; I believe my emails to you are going into your spam folder; So here goes; Yes I am interested in having fish sent to me; Yes I am interested in
            Message 5 of 12 , Nov 1, 2009
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              Howdy Mark;

              I believe my emails to you are going into your spam folder;

              So here goes;

              Yes I am interested in having fish sent to me;

              Yes I am interested in your article.

            • nikhilsood1
              I agree with Gerald as well. I have seen my Betta unimaculata female take initiative in spawning and the same is the case with my Betta pi . But the most
              Message 6 of 12 , Nov 1, 2009
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                I agree with Gerald as well. I have seen my Betta unimaculata female take initiative in spawning and the same is the case with my Betta pi . But the most interesting bit with both these fish is that they need really dark tanks when they have laid eggs and no disturbance even to see whats going on just hope after 12 days that the fry have been spat out and trust me it has worked. A bin bag is a perfect answer to it.

                With regard to Betta macrostoma i have seen a close friend in Scotland get F1's from Allan Brown and kept them for a while the fish would breed very regularly but just never held and this is a guy who has bred i would say most of the Bettas around. So it also may be after a lot of tries need to change the male or the female just to see if it works.

                Cheers

                Nikhil


                 
                --- In anubiasdesign@yahoogroups.com, Anubias Design <anubiasdesign@...> wrote:
                >
                > It sounds like there are a number of outside influences here, from whatever happens outside the window to movement in the room.  You will definitely want to cover the back end so they can't see outside and I would cover the top as well because you've got light and shadows from outside hitting that in addition to the ambient room light.  If you don't want to cover the front end, you can try covering the other two.  If that still doesn't work, I'd cover the front.  Before you try removing the female, try removing the stimuli.
                >  
                > As Gerald said, in many mouthbrooders the female is the dominant partner and the one who initiates spawning.
                > Mark
                >
                >
                > --- On Sun, 11/1/09, Gerald Griffin herpchat@... wrote:
                >
                >
                > From: Gerald Griffin herpchat@...
                > Subject: Re: [anubiasdesign] Re: Macrostroma eating eggs
                > To: anubiasdesign@yahoogroups.com
                > Date: Sunday, November 1, 2009, 11:04 AM
                >
                >
                >  
                >
                >
                >
                >
                >
                >
                >
                > Yes that is the answer!  The issue with them is any motion outside of the tank.  That is what Mark was talking about.
                >
                > As to the dominant fish I have years and years of observation and pick up on the slightest things.  In many mouthbrooders particularly the unimaculata complex the female is the dominant fish.  Particularly in the unimaculata complex I have seen pair bonds form and the female defends the male while holding and will kill intruders to their territory.  The complex has also been observed to bi-parental in 4 known cases.  They also lay 2 types of eggs, one is the fertile egg and the other is a nourishment egg.  It is unclear whether the developing fry eat them (which I suspect) or the male eats them.
                >
                > --- On Sun, 11/1/09, plantsrocksandfish <onsiteinatlanta@ yahoo.com> wrote:
                >
                >
                > From: plantsrocksandfish <onsiteinatlanta@ yahoo.com>
                > Subject: [anubiasdesign] Re: Macrostroma eating eggs
                > To: anubiasdesign@ yahoogroups. com
                > Date: Sunday, November 1, 2009, 9:31 AM
                >
                >
                >  
                >
                > Thanks Mark, I don't think that is the answer. They are in one tank of a row of 20 longs. Long sides face each other with cardboard between so they can not see the fish in the other tanks. One end faces a large bush outside and the only thing open is the one small end that I can see inside and feed from. Even the top is covered with a row of tanks above them. Grating and then the top tanks sit on plywood and there are hiding places in the tank.
                > Not always but in most bettas the male is the dominate fish and starts spawning. I'm thinking that with these fish the female may be dominate and might be best to pull her. I hesitate because I don't want to do anything to upset the pair bond. They are always within a couple of inches from each other.
                >
                > --- In anubiasdesign@ yahoogroups. com, "Anubias Design" <anubiasdesign@ ...> wrote:
                > >
                > > Try covering the tank to block out all outside stimuli. You can use black trash bags and fold them so that the front is open. When you see that they have spawned, cover the front. Cut a tiny window somewhere so you can see what is happening and feed the female.
                > > Mark
                > >
                > > --- In anubiasdesign@ yahoogroups. com, "plantsrocksandfish " <onsiteinatlanta@ > wrote:
                > > >
                > > > This has been posted before on this and other forums, by others, but who pays attention unless it affect them? Now it does affect me. My male has eaten them three times. Most of the posts, I have looked at, say just give them time. I just can't accept this. Drop in barometric pressure, drop in depth of water, adding fresh water, change of light, temperature, etc all might have more to do with it. As a side, my fish were F-1 but the male wasn't eating. I feed heavy on live foods including black worms (I know what is said about the worms but the origional breeder was feeding them and I never had a problem when feeding good, clean and healthy worms) Bottom line was I tried feeding fruit flies. That did it and both fish now eat everything including flake. I wouldn't say the fish would not have started to eat on his own, especially since the female was eating, but if you saw the way my fish attacked the flies, well I found one key. Now I am hoping some
                > one in the group might have some ideas on something I might try. No, I never seperated the pair. I hesitated because of a strong bond pair. They are always together.
                > > >
                > >
                >
              • Anubias Design
                There s nothing in my spam folder.  I check that every day.   Do you still have the list of fish?  If not, I ll find it.  I think I probably have
                Message 7 of 12 , Nov 1, 2009
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                  There's nothing in my spam folder.  I check that every day.
                   
                  Do you still have the list of fish?  If not, I'll find it.  I think I probably have everything but if I'm missing something I should be able to get it next weekend.
                   
                  I'll get with you this week on the article.  I need to put some questions together and send them to you.
                  Mark



                  --- On Sun, 11/1/09, Gerald Griffin <herpchat@...> wrote:

                  From: Gerald Griffin <herpchat@...>
                  Subject: [anubiasdesign] emails and such
                  To: anubiasdesign@yahoogroups.com
                  Date: Sunday, November 1, 2009, 11:25 AM

                   
                  Howdy Mark;

                  I believe my emails to you are going into your spam folder;

                  So here goes;

                  Yes I am interested in having fish sent to me;

                  Yes I am interested in your article.


                • Gerald Griffin
                  That is so strange, maybe its a conspiracy so I can t get more fish. I did once get a few email from Alton 7 months after he sent them.  My guess is that they
                  Message 8 of 12 , Nov 1, 2009
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                    That is so strange, maybe its a conspiracy so I can't get more fish.

                    I did once get a few email from Alton 7 months after he sent them.  My guess is that they got hung up in cyberspace somewhere.

                    --- On Sun, 11/1/09, Anubias Design <anubiasdesign@...> wrote:

                    From: Anubias Design <anubiasdesign@...>
                    Subject: Re: [anubiasdesign] emails and such
                    To: anubiasdesign@yahoogroups.com
                    Date: Sunday, November 1, 2009, 10:50 AM

                     

                    There's nothing in my spam folder.  I check that every day.
                     
                    Do you still have the list of fish?  If not, I'll find it.  I think I probably have everything but if I'm missing something I should be able to get it next weekend.
                     
                    I'll get with you this week on the article.  I need to put some questions together and send them to you.
                    Mark



                    --- On Sun, 11/1/09, Gerald Griffin <herpchat@yahoo. com> wrote:

                    From: Gerald Griffin <herpchat@yahoo. com>
                    Subject: [anubiasdesign] emails and such
                    To: anubiasdesign@ yahoogroups. com
                    Date: Sunday, November 1, 2009, 11:25 AM

                     
                    Howdy Mark;

                    I believe my emails to you are going into your spam folder;

                    So here goes;

                    Yes I am interested in having fish sent to me;

                    Yes I am interested in your article.



                  • plantsrocksandfish
                    Thanks guys for your help although I still don t think I have the answer. The fish are in a sunroom so one end of the tank is against a large glass panel. This
                    Message 9 of 12 , Nov 2, 2009
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                      Thanks guys for your help although I still don't think I have the answer. The fish are in a sunroom so one end of the tank is against a large glass panel. This is covered with a large bush so you can not see the birds? The nearest house is at least 100 feet away and is down hill and back so the most that can be seen is the side of my house and trees. I always keep a thin layer of gravel on the bottom of any tank that houses a nervous fish. As for the row above, I have the tanks sitting on plywood so there is no reflection. I really don't like the idea of blacking out the tank. I have plants in there and I don't want them to die and mess with the water quality. These fish hold for two weeks. Also the first time the pair spawned I ended up with a leaky tank above that I had to remove and it hit the Macs tank cracking it. I was able to move most of the water and the fish into another tank. That did not seem to bother the male and he kept holding for another 2 days. Sure there are light sensitive killie eggs but in nature the parents will usually find somewhere where the light will not reach the eggs. I don't think any fish hides for two weeks especially since the female is there to "protect" him.
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