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Anti Vegan Alliance

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  • Caramm_18
    Welcome, This is the Yahoo! Message Board for Anti Vegan Alliance community.
    Message 1 of 25 , Jan 22, 1999
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      Welcome, This is the Yahoo! Message Board for Anti Vegan Alliance community.
    • Caramm_18
      on t just veiw my page join. You are all welcome.
      Message 2 of 25 , Feb 4, 1999
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      • pastelprincess2000
        Hi. I m a vegan. But don t freak out yet, I m not going to criticize you. I just wanted you to realize what a horrible generalization you re making. Not all of
        Message 3 of 25 , Aug 13, 1999
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          Hi. I'm a vegan. But don't freak out yet, I'm not
          going to criticize you. I just wanted you to realize
          what a horrible generalization you're making. Not all
          of us vegans are fascists. This is just the way I
          live my life and it's what's right for me, I don't
          care how others live their lives. I understand how
          annoying it must be for someone to be telling you all
          about factory farms while you're trying to enjoy your
          hamburger, but many vegans don't do that. If you can eat
          meat and have a clear conscience, then I say go for
          it. I was also offended by the remark in your profile
          about "dirty hippy vegans". Again, you're generalizing.
        • rootsid
          This is a link to People Eating Tasty Animals www.mtd.com/tasty/
          Message 4 of 25 , Aug 27, 1999
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            This is a link to People Eating Tasty Animals<br>www.mtd.com/tasty/
          • blue_million_miles
            Hi I m a 15-year-old South Dakota vegan. I would be willing to debate. I am curious as to what in the world would lead a person to believe that it is morally
            Message 5 of 25 , Mar 10, 2000
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              Hi I'm a 15-year-old South Dakota vegan. I would
              be willing to debate. I am curious as to what in the
              world would lead a person to believe that it is morally
              acceptable to mass produce other species only to kill them
              by the billions. And every single one of them has
              the capability to feel pain. Humans are the only
              animals to assume ownership of the lives of entire
              species, and humans are also very healthy without eating
              any animal. How is it justified?
            • BlueEyedPleco
              I came for the same reason. I m near vegan myself. I wonder how it is acceptable to torture animals and throw away our future for the sake of something
              Message 6 of 25 , Oct 13, 2000
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                I came for the same reason.<br>I'm near vegan
                myself.<br>I wonder how it is acceptable to torture animals
                and throw away our future for the sake of something
                as trival as hamburgers.<br>The sacrfices to produce
                meat seem to be very great compared to the benifits.
              • noodlegerl
                hey there. i am not a vegan myself, but my boyfriend is and many of my friends are as well. i have had some annoying experiences with preachy vegans that
                Message 7 of 25 , Nov 23, 2000
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                  hey there. i am not a vegan myself, but my
                  boyfriend is and many of my friends are as well. i have had
                  some annoying experiences with preachy vegans that
                  totally turned me off to veganism/vegetarianism. another
                  thing that turned me off at first was that some
                  vegans/vegetarians get all defensive when someone attacks their
                  lifestyle, which is understandable (most people are pretty
                  defensive about their way of life, myself included) but it
                  never helps to get mad at people because of this. it
                  just turns them off even more! how are you helping
                  animals by angering meat eaters into wanting to eat more
                  meat? i used to be exactly like that; preachy vegans
                  just made me want to eat pound after pound of dairy
                  and meat! the deader, the better... (this is getting
                  a little long winded, so i'll try to wrap it up)
                  basically, after having more exposure to non-preachy, "nice"
                  vegans (like my boyfriend) , i became TONS more open to
                  the idea of becoming vegan myself. and now i'm a
                  vegetarian. so there you have it. if you read this whole
                  thing, then thanks for the patience. if not, i don't
                  blame you one bit!
                • BlueEyedPleco
                  *nods* I remember someone got really mad at me because I had some chocolate candy that might have milk products in it..Yes that s right they got mad at
                  Message 8 of 25 , Nov 23, 2000
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                    *nods*<br><br>I remember someone got really mad
                    at me because I had some chocolate candy that might
                    have milk products in it..Yes that's right they got
                    mad at me BEFORE they even knew.<br><br>The history
                    of that candy bar happened to be that is was free
                    from somewhere and I had it in my pocket in case my
                    blood sugar got too low...I was voluteering and
                    couldn't just quit to eat when I wanted to.<br><br>Don't
                    be too hard on them but gently let them know that
                    they are turning people off vegetarinism or vegaism.
                  • servinghimforever
                    but i got quite ill, im back to being vegetarian again, tho i prefer being vegan...
                    Message 9 of 25 , Dec 10, 2000
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                      but i got quite ill, im back to being vegetarian again, tho' i prefer being vegan...
                    • indypendypuss
                      Hi Alliance, The guy who manages the above group, called nameless !! has banned me four times for saying things which he dis-agrees with. He is a real
                      Message 10 of 25 , Sep 11, 2001
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                        Hi Alliance,<br><br>The guy who manages the above
                        group, called nameless !! has banned me four times for
                        saying things which he dis-agrees with. He is a real
                        control freak.<br><br>It turns out his potential anarchy
                        is due to a property dispute and not veganism which
                        also makes him a hypocrite.<br><br>Would anyone care
                        for some fun by stirring him up a little more
                        ?<br><br>Regards<br><br>Andrew
                      • van088
                        I m sure that most vegans are well aware that, by being preachy, they usually turn people off to veganism. But of course I ve done it before... and I m sure
                        Message 11 of 25 , May 27, 2002
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                          I'm sure that most vegans are well aware that, by being preachy, they
                          usually turn people off to veganism. But of course I've done it
                          before... and I'm sure most other vegans have, too. Like you said,
                          people get very defensive of their lifestyles. I think it's even
                          more extreme in the case of vegans. Consider how you would feel if
                          you held this very firm belief that animals are of equal worth to
                          humans, and therefore, when people ate meat, it was as if they were
                          killing people. When people truly feel that way, they do get a
                          little desperate. I think sometimes vegans are just so anxious to
                          try to get people to understand the way they see things, to save
                          lives, that they can get a little preachy because of their
                          frustration when most people don't understand that.
                        • mississippilove2001
                          ... no one has to justify themselves to you.ml
                          Message 12 of 25 , Oct 3, 2002
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                            --- In antiveganalliance@y..., blue_million_miles wrote:
                            > Hi I'm a 15-year-old South Dakota vegan. I would
                            > be willing to debate. I am curious as to what in the
                            > world would lead a person to believe that it is morally
                            > acceptable to mass produce other species only to kill them
                            > by the billions. And every single one of them has
                            > the capability to feel pain. Humans are the only
                            > animals to assume ownership of the lives of entire
                            > species, and humans are also very healthy without eating
                            > any animal. How is it justified?
                            no one has to justify themselves to you.ml
                          • mississippilove2001
                            ... You are free to make your own conclusions, but be aware, they are just that.ml
                            Message 13 of 25 , Oct 3, 2002
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                              --- In antiveganalliance@y..., BlueEyedPleco wrote:
                              > I came for the same reason.<br>I'm near vegan
                              > myself.<br>I wonder how it is acceptable to torture animals
                              > and throw away our future for the sake of something
                              > as trival as hamburgers.<br>The sacrfices to produce
                              > meat seem to be very great compared to the benifits.
                              You are free to make your own conclusions, but be aware, they are just
                              that.ml
                            • mississippilove2001
                              ... they ... well, but... all us animals on the earth eat each other, and none of the other animals are mad at the meat apes...the vegan cult has nothing to do
                              Message 14 of 25 , Oct 3, 2002
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                                --- In antiveganalliance@y..., van088 <no_reply@y...> wrote:
                                > I'm sure that most vegans are well aware that, by being preachy,
                                they
                                > usually turn people off to veganism. But of course I've done it
                                > before... and I'm sure most other vegans have, too. Like you said,
                                > people get very defensive of their lifestyles. I think it's even
                                > more extreme in the case of vegans. Consider how you would feel if
                                > you held this very firm belief that animals are of equal worth to
                                > humans, and therefore, when people ate meat, it was as if they were
                                > killing people. When people truly feel that way, they do get a
                                > little desperate. I think sometimes vegans are just so anxious to
                                > try to get people to understand the way they see things, to save
                                > lives, that they can get a little preachy because of their
                                > frustration when most people don't understand that.
                                well, but... all us animals on the earth eat each other, and none of
                                the other animals are mad at the meat apes...the vegan cult has
                                nothing to do with eating, you novices think it does because that is
                                the lure devised to cull the truely violent among you from the rest.
                                this is really an old cult, the cult of kali, more on this later,...
                                but if you are not mad at mama beaver for making a dam, why be mad at
                                mama meat ape for feeding her young the things that she knows will
                                make them the biggest and strongest.ml
                              • resistench
                                For all the statements you ve made, it still seems like your ignorant to what is considered natural , slaughterhouses don t grow naturally, and humans don t
                                Message 15 of 25 , Oct 6, 2002
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                                  For all the statements you've made, it still seems like your
                                  ignorant to what is considered "natural", slaughterhouses don't grow
                                  naturally, and humans don't necassarily rely on meat, unlike
                                  carnivores significantly designed to have an avid meat diet, they're
                                  intestines run straight, as to a humans intestines, which are folded
                                  and made for a slower digestive process, hence, designed for a diet
                                  which aims at fruits, veggies, etc. meat also contributes to colon
                                  cancer, high blood pressure and the already dominant obesity, if you
                                  went and studied it a little more, you'd notice it is extremely
                                  healthier, and promotes longer life, as well as conserving others,i'm
                                  vegan, and probably in a healthier state than most meat eaters, also
                                  meat literally rots in your gut, for up to a week, i don't preach, i
                                  inform people who are interestd, and aim my views through print,
                                  veganism can be a status symbol like shitloads of other things, the
                                  overall thing here is, i'm saving lives, and increase my healthspan.
                                  i don't condemn other peoples choices, i think any living thing has
                                  the right to live, when something is born, it shouldn't have to live
                                  in a planned death, just like you would want to experience life.
                                • mississippilove2001
                                  ... like your ignorant to what is considered natural , slaughterhouses don t grow naturally,) ( Slaughter houses are just as natural as beaver s dams.) (Lie
                                  Message 16 of 25 , Oct 6, 2002
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                                    --- In antiveganalliance@y..., resistench <no_reply@y...> wrote:
                                    > (Lie number one:For all the statements you've made, it still seems
                                    like your ignorant to what is considered "natural", slaughterhouses
                                    don't grow naturally,) ( Slaughter houses are just as natural as
                                    beaver's dams.)
                                    (Lie number two: and humans don't necassarily rely on meat,) (All
                                    humans have relied on meat, and the more meat the bigger and stronger
                                    the human )
                                    (Lie number Three: unlike carnivores) (Carnivore is the scientific
                                    designation for particular kinds of animals, many animals that do not
                                    fall into the carnivore category eat as much maet as they possibly
                                    can.)
                                    (Lie number four:significantly designed to have an avid meat
                                    diet,)(Designed by whom?) they're intestines run straight, as to a
                                    humans intestines, which are folded and made for a slower digestive
                                    process, hence, designed for a diet which aims at fruits, veggies,
                                    etc.(Animals are not designed, any animal with any type of intestine
                                    can eat whatever it wants, and pigs, dogs, monkeys and yes even
                                    squirrels can and do eat meat and occasionaly, each other.
                                    meat also contributes to colon cancer, high blood pressure and the
                                    already dominant obesity, (I take it you consider these things bad
                                    somehow.)
                                    (if you went and studied it a little more,)(So you think people who
                                    disagree with you have studied less? Do you think everyone who
                                    disagrees with you on anything is less intelligent or less studied
                                    than you?) (Lie number five:you'd notice it is extremely healthier,
                                    and promotes longer life, as well as conserving others,)It is not
                                    healthier! We only need to look at the enforced veganism of the cults
                                    to see malnourised childern, and obese vegatarians is almost a
                                    stereotype. Well, which is it? are you a vegan for your moral reasons
                                    or because it is healthier?
                                    i'm vegan, and probably in a healthier state than most meat eaters,
                                    also meat literally rots in your gut, for up to a week,(here you've
                                    determined that meat "rotting" in the gut is somehow bad
                                    i don't preach, i inform people who are interestd, and aim my views
                                    through print, veganism can be a status symbol like shitloads of other
                                    things, the overall thing here is, i'm saving lives, and increase my
                                    healthspan.(Why are you afraid to die?)
                                    > i don't condemn other peoples choices, i think any living thing has
                                    > the right to live, when something is born, it shouldn't have to live
                                    > in a planned death,(Everything that lives dies) just like you would
                                    want to experience life. (The wind and the rain, and the forests and
                                    the beasts, are not mad at you, live your life, peace, Vegan.)
                                  • resistench
                                    since your blatantly calling me a liar, and my statements wheres somehow lies, i will go into more descriptive examples. The most important dietary changes to
                                    Message 17 of 25 , Oct 6, 2002
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                                      since your blatantly calling me a liar, and my statements wheres
                                      somehow lies, i will go into more descriptive examples.
                                      The most important dietary changes to make in protecting arteries
                                      from atherosclerosis include avoiding sources of saturated fat, such
                                      as meat and dairy products. A decrease in atherosclerosis resulting
                                      from a pure vegetarian diet (no meat, poultry, dairy or eggs),
                                      combined with exercise and stress reduction, has been proven by
                                      medical research. So-called "Mediterranean" diets (high in beans and
                                      peas, fish, fruit, vegetables, bread, and cereals; and low in meat,
                                      dairy fat, and eggs) have also had remarkable effects in reducing
                                      the risk of dying from heart disease.
                                      Cancer? From Meat, indeed.
                                      Most, but not all, studies show meat-eaters have a high risk of
                                      colon and breast cancers. In some colon-cancer studies, the
                                      association has been limited to consumption of sausage or other
                                      processed meats.

                                      The association between cancer and consumption of meat depends in
                                      part on how well the meat is cooked. Well-done meat contains more
                                      carcinogenic material than does lightly cooked meat. Recent evidence
                                      from preliminary studies shows that people who eat well-done, fried,
                                      or heavily browned meat have a high risk of colon and breast cancers.

                                      However, not every report has found that exposure to carcinogens
                                      found in well-done meat leads to an increased risk of cancer. Some
                                      studies may have failed to find this link because they did not
                                      consider the effect of genetics. Susceptibility to the colon cancer-
                                      causing effects of well-cooked meat appears to be genetically
                                      determined. Genetics may also determine whether eating well-done
                                      meat increases the risk of breast cancer. As with colon cancer,
                                      genetic testing to determine which consumers of well-done meat are
                                      at high risk of breast cancer is rarely done except in research
                                      trials.

                                      Meat contains high amounts of arachidonic acid. Some by-products of
                                      arachidonic acid have promoted prostate cancer in animals.
                                      Preliminary reports have suggested that frequently eating well-done
                                      steak or cured meats may also increase the risk of prostate cancer
                                      in men, although the association between prostate cancer and other
                                      meats has not been consistently reported.

                                      Consumption of fried and well-done red meat was associated with an
                                      elevated risk of lung cancer in one report. Consumption of red meat
                                      in general, as well as fried meat, correlated with a high risk of
                                      lung cancer in another study. People who cook with fat taken from
                                      meat (such as bacon fat and lard) may also be at high risk of lung
                                      cancer, according to preliminary research.

                                      In one report, high consumption of hot dogs was associated with an
                                      almost tenfold increase in the risk of childhood leukemia when
                                      compared with low consumption. In another report, maternal
                                      consumption of hot dogs and childhood consumption of hamburgers or
                                      hot dogs at least once per week were associated with a doubling of
                                      the risk of cancers in children. A review of nine studies found an
                                      association between consumption by pregnant women of cured meat and
                                      the risk of brain cancer in their offspring. These associations do
                                      not yet constitute proof that eating hot dogs or hamburgers causes
                                      cancer in children, and evidence linking cured meat consumption to
                                      childhood cancers remains somewhat inconsistent.

                                      In the debate over whether dietary fat increases breast cancer
                                      risks, only one fact is indisputable: women in countries that
                                      consume high amounts of meat and dairy fat have a high risk of
                                      breast cancer, while women in countries that mostly consume rice,
                                      soy, vegetables and fish (instead of meat and dairy fat) have a low
                                      risk of breast cancer.

                                      Cardiovascular Disease

                                      A diet high in fish appears protective against heart disease, while
                                      a high intake of saturated fat (found in meat) may contribute to
                                      heart disease. A large study of male healthcare professionals found
                                      that those men eating mostly a "prudent" diet (high in fruits,
                                      vegetables, legumes, whole grains, fish, and poultry) had a 30
                                      percent lower risk of heart attacks compared to men who ate the
                                      fewest foods in the "prudent" category. In contrast, men who ate the
                                      highest percentage of their foods from the "typical American diet"
                                      category (high in red meat, processed meat, refined grains, sweets,
                                      and desserts) had a 64 percent increased risk of heart attack,
                                      compared to men who ate the fewest foods in that category.

                                      Crohn's Disease

                                      As with many other health conditions, it may be beneficial for
                                      persons with this condition to eat less meat and dairy fat and more
                                      fruits and vegetables.

                                      Diabetes

                                      Vegetarians have been reported to have a low risk of type 2
                                      diabetes. When people with diabetic nerve damage switch to a vegan
                                      diet (no meat, dairy, or eggs), improvements have been reported
                                      after several days. In one trial, pain completely disappeared in 17
                                      of 21 people. Fats from meat also cause heart disease, the leading
                                      killer of people with diabetes. Vegetarians eat less protein than do
                                      meat eaters. Reducing protein intake has lowered kidney damage
                                      caused by diabetes, and may also improve glucose tolerance. Diets
                                      high in fat, especially saturated fat, worsen glucose tolerance and
                                      increase the risk of type 2 diabetes. Worldwide, children whose
                                      energy comes primarily from a diet high in dairy (or meat) products
                                      have a significantly higher chance of developing type 1 diabetes
                                      than do children whose energy comes primarily from a diet high in
                                      vegetable sources.

                                      Diverticular Disease

                                      One study of food intake revealed a 50 percent increase in incidence
                                      of diverticular disease in persons eating a diet high in meat and
                                      low in vegetables relative to those eating a high-vegetable and low-
                                      meat diet.

                                      Fibrocystic Breast Disease (FBD)

                                      Fibrocystic disease has been linked to estrogen imbalance in the
                                      body. When women with fibrocystic disease eat a low-fat diet, their
                                      estrogen levels decrease. After three to six months, the pain and
                                      lumpiness of FBD also decreases, according to some research. The
                                      link between fat and FBD symptoms appears to be most strongly
                                      related to saturated fat, which is high in meat.

                                      Gallstones

                                      In some trials, vegetarians had only half the risk of developing
                                      gallstones compared with meat eaters. Vegetarians often eat fewer
                                      calories and less cholesterol. They also tend to weigh less than
                                      meat eaters. All of these differences may reduce gallstone incidence.

                                      Gout

                                      Restricting purine intake can reduce the risk of a gout attack in
                                      people susceptible to gout. Foods high in purines include protein-
                                      rich foods, such as sweetbreads, liver, and other organ meats, and
                                      red meat.

                                      Halitosis

                                      Access by oral bacteria to sulfur-containing amino acids enhances
                                      the production of the sulfur gases partially responsible for bad
                                      breath. Cleaning the mouth after eating sulfur-rich food, including
                                      meat, may help remove the food for these bacteria.

                                      Heart Attack

                                      Dietary fat consumption increases heart attack risk. The Nurses'
                                      Health Study found that eating foods high in saturated fats (meat
                                      and dairy fat) was directly associated with more nonfatal heart
                                      attacks and deaths from coronary heart disease than eating lower
                                      amounts of these foods. Other studies report a direct association
                                      between frequent consumption of meat and butter and heart attacks.
                                      Making positive dietary changes immediately following a heart attack
                                      is likely to decrease one's chance of having a second heart attack.
                                      In one study, people began eating more vegetables and fruits, and
                                      substituted fish, nuts, and legumes for meat and eggs 24 to 48 hours
                                      after a heart attack. Six weeks later, the diet group had
                                      significantly fewer fatal and nonfatal heart attacks than a similar
                                      group who did not make these dietary changes. Many doctors tell
                                      people trying to reduce their risk of heart disease to avoid all
                                      meat and dairy fat. Fish is often suggested instead of meat. People
                                      eating a "Mediterranean" diet (high in beans and peas, fish, fruit,
                                      vegetables, bread, and cereals; and low in meat, dairy fat, and
                                      eggs) for two years had a remarkable 70 percent reduced risk of
                                      dying from heart disease compared with people not eating the diet.
                                      Similar results were also confirmed after almost four years.

                                      High Cholesterol

                                      Significant amounts of saturated fat are found in beef, pork, and
                                      veal. Avoiding these foods reduces cholesterol levels and has even
                                      been reported to reverse existing heart disease. Vegetarians have
                                      lower cholesterol and less heart disease than meat eaters, in part
                                      because they avoid animal fat. Vegans (people who eat no meat,
                                      dairy, or eggs) have the lowest cholesterol levels, and switching
                                      from a standard diet to a vegan diet has been reported to reverse
                                      heart disease.

                                      High Homocysteine

                                      People with high-homocysteine levels are typically advised to reduce
                                      their consumption of meat and saturated fat, because these dietary
                                      changes lower the risk of heart disease. Since homocysteine is
                                      produced from the amino acid methionine, intake of large amounts of
                                      methionine increases homocysteine levels. Foods high in methionine
                                      that have also been linked with an increased risk of heart disease
                                      include meat and eggs. The extent to which consumption of these
                                      foods affects the risk of heart disease as a result of their
                                      methionine content remains unknown.

                                      High Triglycerides

                                      People with high triglycerides are typically advised to reduce their
                                      weight and limit the consumption of meat and saturated fats. Many
                                      doctors recommend a diet low in saturated fat (meaning avoidance of
                                      red meat and all dairy except nonfat dairy) to reduce triglycerides
                                      and the risk of heart disease.

                                      Hives

                                      Allergy to foods and food additives is a common cause of hives,
                                      especially in chronic cases. Cured meat is among the foods most
                                      commonly reported as a trigger for hives.

                                      Intermittent Claudication

                                      Important dietary changes for preventing atherosclerosis (and,
                                      consequently, intermittent claudication) include avoiding meat and
                                      dairy fat, increasing fiber, and possibly avoiding foods containing
                                      trans fatty acids.

                                      Iron Deficiency

                                      The most absorbable form of iron, called "heme" iron, is found in
                                      meat, poultry, and fish.

                                      Kidney Stones

                                      Increased levels of urinary calcium also increase the risk of stone
                                      formation. Consumption of animal protein from meat, dairy, poultry,
                                      or fish increases urinary calcium.

                                      Morning Sickness

                                      In a Harvard study, women with a high intake of saturated fat (found
                                      mainly in meat and dairy) during the year prior to pregnancy had a
                                      much higher risk of severe morning sickness than did women eating
                                      less saturated fat.

                                      Osteoarthritis (OA)

                                      From the 1950s through the 1970s, Dr. Max Warmbrand used a diet free
                                      of meat, poultry, dairy, chemicals, sugar, eggs, and processed foods
                                      for people with rheumatoid arthritis (RA) and OA, claiming
                                      significant anecdotal success. He reported that clinical results
                                      took at least six months to develop. The Warmbrand diet has never
                                      been properly tested in clinical research. Moreover, although the
                                      diet is healthful and should reduce the risk of being diagnosed with
                                      many other diseases, it is difficult for most people to follow. This
                                      difficulty, plus the lack of published research, leads many doctors
                                      who are aware of the Warmbrand diet to use it only if other
                                      approaches have failed.

                                      Parasites

                                      Undercooked meat and poultry can contain parasites.

                                      Phenylketonuria (PKU)

                                      A PKU diet is one that is low in protein, providing no more than the
                                      minimum amount of phenylalanine needed by the body. All high-protein
                                      foods, such as meats and poultry, are usually eliminated.

                                      Premenstrual Syndrome (PMS)

                                      Several studies suggest that diets low in fat may help to reduce
                                      symptoms of PMS. Many doctors recommend diets very low in meat and
                                      dairy fat and high in fruit, vegetables, and whole grains for women
                                      with PMS.

                                      Rheumatoid Arthritis (RA)

                                      From the 1950s through the 1970s, Max Warmbrand, a naturopathic
                                      doctor, used a very low-fat diet to treat people with RA. He
                                      recommended a diet free of meat, dairy, chemicals, sugar, eggs, and
                                      processed foods. See Osteoarthritis (above).

                                      Systemic Lupus Erythematosus (SLE)

                                      An isolated case of someone with SLE improving significantly after
                                      the introduction of a vegetarian diet has been reported. In Japan,
                                      women who frequently ate fatty meats, such as beef and pork, were
                                      reported to be at higher risk for SLE compared with women eating
                                      little of these foods. Consuming fewer calories, less fat, and foods
                                      low in phenylalanine and tyrosine (prevalent in high-protein foods
                                      such as meat and dairy) might be helpful, according to animal and
                                      preliminary human studies.

                                      Weight Loss

                                      For weight loss, foods with a high proportion of calories from fat
                                      should be eliminated from the diet, or consumed only in limited
                                      amounts; these include red meat, poultry skins, and dark poultry
                                      meat.

                                      Wilson's Disease

                                      Most foods contain at least some copper, so it is not possible to
                                      avoid the metal completely. Foods high in copper, such as organ
                                      meats, should be eliminated from the diet.

                                      You say slaughterhouses are natural, they are obvously not something
                                      that was grown, or produced by the ecosystem, besides playing a
                                      factor in destroying it, the majority of animals raised for
                                      slaughter are not naturally concieved, artificial insemination is
                                      widely used in almost all aspects of the meat market, they are
                                      convienently caged with barely enough room to stand or turn, this is
                                      also not natural event, when an animal is restrained from making
                                      it's own decisions, it's ultimately not playing a "natural" role on
                                      earth, when you commented earlier on many other animals eating meat,
                                      it is carried out in a natural order, they do not inseminate, and
                                      raise they're food, they find it and eat it, are you going to tell
                                      me you hunt your prey and consume it naturally?. no you buy it
                                      convienently wrapped at the supermarket, The fact humans may be the
                                      only species to continue to drink milk after being weaned is simply
                                      a matter of access. In other species the female must wean last
                                      birthing cycle off-spring so she has milk for the new one(s). It's a
                                      matter of gluttony. I will follow up ont he human bodies reccomended
                                      meat consumption (which is 0), i will supply you publication if you
                                      still think i am full of "lies", think before you condemn.
                                    • mississippilove2001
                                      ... This is funny and worth a look see.
                                      Message 18 of 25 , Oct 8, 2002
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                                        --- In antiveganalliance@y..., rootsid wrote:
                                        > This is a link to People Eating Tasty Animals<br>www.mtd.com/tasty/
                                        This is funny and worth a look see.
                                      • rezistench
                                        -Welcome to PETA, the original animal rights organisation. We believe that animals were placed on this Earth for the express purpose of humankind to exploit,
                                        Message 19 of 25 , Nov 25, 2002
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                                          -Welcome to PETA, the original animal rights organisation. We believe
                                          that
                                          animals were placed on this Earth for the express
                                          purpose of humankind to
                                          exploit, to breed, to consume and to harvest their
                                          products. We believe that no
                                          animal has "rights", and all anthropomorphism is
                                          caused by bleeding-heart veggie
                                          nutcases whose lack of animal protein has blunted
                                          their brains. Put on a leather
                                          jacket and wool scarf and shut up! We believe that the
                                          future of global health
                                          and disease prevention lies in animal testing and
                                          experimentation. It is a sign of
                                          the highest humanity if animals have to die in order
                                          to save future untold billions
                                          of humans. At PETA, we believe that humankind is the
                                          highest life form. Join
                                          this forum and laugh with us as we make fun of these
                                          sorrowful, pathetic and
                                          lonely animal-rights losers. (People for the Ethical
                                          Treatment of Animals)
                                        • snagevetsizer
                                          ... believe ... the ... What language is this post in? There are animals in the water you drink, there are animals in the food you eat there are animals in the
                                          Message 20 of 25 , Nov 27, 2002
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                                            --- In antiveganalliance@y..., "rezistench" <rezistench@y...> wrote:
                                            > -Welcome to PETA, the original animal rights organisation. We
                                            believe
                                            > that
                                            > animals were placed on this Earth for the express
                                            > purpose of humankind to
                                            > exploit, to breed, to consume and to harvest their
                                            > products. We believe that no
                                            > animal has "rights", and all anthropomorphism is
                                            > caused by bleeding-heart veggie
                                            > nutcases whose lack of animal protein has blunted
                                            > their brains. Put on a leather
                                            > jacket and wool scarf and shut up! We believe that
                                            the
                                            > future of global health
                                            > and disease prevention lies in animal testing and
                                            > experimentation. It is a sign of
                                            > the highest humanity if animals have to die in order
                                            > to save future untold billions
                                            > of humans. At PETA, we believe that humankind is the
                                            > highest life form. Join
                                            > this forum and laugh with us as we make fun of these
                                            > sorrowful, pathetic and
                                            > lonely animal-rights losers. (People for the Ethical
                                            > Treatment of Animals)



                                            What language is this post in? There are animals in the water you
                                            drink, there are animals in the food you eat there are animals in the
                                            air there are animals in your home there are animals in you feces
                                            there are animals in your mate there are animals in your mind, they
                                            are
                                            screaming.............................................................
                                            ......................................................................
                                            ......................................................................
                                            .............................................eeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee
                                            eeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee
                                            eeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
                                            !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
                                          • diseasewench
                                            ... believe ... the ... was hitler a vegan?
                                            Message 21 of 25 , Nov 27, 2002
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                                              --- In antiveganalliance@y..., "rezistench" <rezistench@y...> wrote:
                                              > -Welcome to PETA, the original animal rights organisation. We
                                              believe
                                              > that
                                              > animals were placed on this Earth for the express
                                              > purpose of humankind to
                                              > exploit, to breed, to consume and to harvest their
                                              > products. We believe that no
                                              > animal has "rights", and all anthropomorphism is
                                              > caused by bleeding-heart veggie
                                              > nutcases whose lack of animal protein has blunted
                                              > their brains. Put on a leather
                                              > jacket and wool scarf and shut up! We believe that
                                              the
                                              > future of global health
                                              > and disease prevention lies in animal testing and
                                              > experimentation. It is a sign of
                                              > the highest humanity if animals have to die in order
                                              > to save future untold billions
                                              > of humans. At PETA, we believe that humankind is the
                                              > highest life form. Join
                                              > this forum and laugh with us as we make fun of these
                                              > sorrowful, pathetic and
                                              > lonely animal-rights losers. (People for the Ethical
                                              > Treatment of Animals)

                                              was hitler a vegan?
                                            • resistench
                                              ... prefer being vegan... Nice effort, it might take awhile, but i can assure you, a vegan diet is a better effort to being healthy, switching back to
                                              Message 22 of 25 , Dec 5, 2002
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                                                --- In antiveganalliance@y..., servinghimforever wrote:
                                                > but i got quite ill, im back to being vegetarian again, tho' i
                                                prefer being vegan...

                                                Nice effort, it might take awhile, but i can assure you, a vegan
                                                diet is a better effort to being healthy, switching back to
                                                vegetarian isn't making you healthier, i am guessing you relyed on a
                                                dairy heavy diet, the fats and artery clogging properties in dairy,
                                                are way worse than meat, so in a sense, a dairy heavy vegetarian
                                                diet is worse than a meat heavy diet. I can reccomend eating more
                                                grains, more vegetables, find lentil soup, get soy based products
                                                and make stir frys, while broadening your diet, try and stay away
                                                from dairy, if you get the craving, make or buy some tofu ice cream,
                                                sound nasty, It's actually really good, especially tofutti brands, i
                                                have a recipe too, you can buy soy based cheese, which doesnt have
                                                the exact taste of cheese,do some research, you can easily exclude
                                                dairy from your diet, youv'e already gotten rid of the meat, if you
                                                want email me at democricide@... or message me on AOL at
                                                SilenceIsFeedom. I can help you get a good idea of starting a
                                                healthy vegan diet.
                                                -peace
                                              • ru4ryla <ru4ryla@yahoo.com>
                                                hello fellow citizens. I too hate the vegans animal hugging faggots. I trap fur and raise bird sfor cockfighting so Ive done battl with them for a long time. I
                                                Message 23 of 25 , Jan 10, 2003
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                                                  hello fellow citizens. I too hate the vegans animal hugging faggots.
                                                  I trap fur and raise bird sfor cockfighting so Ive done battl with
                                                  them for a long time. I used to raise pitbulls to fight too but hte
                                                  blacks are taking overt hat sport and i want nothing to do with them.

                                                  Anyway, i look forward to talking about vegans.
                                                • fishcannotscream
                                                  it is interesting that someone could make the remark dirty hippie vegans since the filthiest thing you can do on earth is eat a rotting cadaver making you a
                                                  Message 24 of 25 , Aug 8, 2003
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                                                    it is interesting that someone could make the
                                                    remark 'dirty hippie vegans' since the filthiest
                                                    thing you can do on earth is eat a rotting cadaver

                                                    making you a mobile cemetery for dead innocent animals

                                                    give you the stench of butyric acid
                                                  • d kang
                                                    ... You think you are better than all the other animals? what about shemales? they eat meat naturaly don t they/ or am I kidding?
                                                    Message 25 of 25 , Aug 8, 2003
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                                                      --- fishcannotscream <akrophile@...> wrote:
                                                      > it is interesting that someone could make the
                                                      > remark 'dirty hippie vegans' since the filthiest
                                                      > thing you can do on earth is eat a rotting cadaver
                                                      >
                                                      > making you a mobile cemetery for dead innocent
                                                      > animals
                                                      >
                                                      > give you the stench of butyric acid
                                                      >
                                                      >
                                                      You think you are better than all the other animals?
                                                      what about shemales? they eat meat naturaly don't
                                                      they/ or am I kidding?

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