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antigay & demonic UFO conspiracy

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  • david ong
    hi, Im a born again Christian and also a moderator of a few groups. i probably wouldnt have removed mr antigay but continue to try and convince him of the
    Message 1 of 6 , Feb 13 11:25 AM
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      hi,

      Im a born again Christian and also a moderator of a
      few groups.

      i probably wouldnt have removed mr antigay but
      continue to try and convince him of the truth. After
      all he is a soul that needs saving. Who knows? Maybe
      your words were making an impact on his life behind
      the scenes! But it's your group and u can run it as u
      c fit.

      As for UFOs visiting us... i always wondered about
      wether they are really demons disguised as aliens just
      seduce us in the future. It would be a very clever
      plan for them to land one day and seduce the whole
      world and start the kingdom of the anti christ that
      way.

      What do u think?

      Dave
      Computer Science student
      Murdoch University
      Perth
      Western Australia

      __________________________________
      Do you Yahoo!?
      Yahoo! Finance: Get your refund fast by filing online.
      http://taxes.yahoo.com/filing.html
    • ufolight
      Hello Dave. The action against antigray was not one I like doing, but I openly rebuked the serious errors on his web site about God, and he came back trying to
      Message 2 of 6 , Feb 13 3:38 PM
      • 0 Attachment
        Hello Dave.

        The action against antigray was not one I like doing, but I openly
        rebuked the serious errors on his web site about God, and he came
        back trying to cover it up by posting messages that were not even
        true to what he says.

        One thing a group I moderate will not tolarate is continual
        blasphemous statements against the Truth. If I allow it, I am guilty
        of approval, and others may become deceived.

        I care about that person, and communicated in a manner permitting a
        humble approach. Getting booted from a yahoo group is one thing, but
        getting blocked out of the heavenly abode is extreemly serious.
        In a sence, real love can be like a velvet coated brick; sometimes
        it's the only way someone will see the serverity and change.

        I have dealt with that person for a long time, and the words I
        offered would not change him. I still hope the best for him, but not
        here.

        ___

        As for the ufo/demon theory;
        I will not make my personal experience seal my thoughts, but what
        is written.

        In scripture, it says that satan was cast down to the earth, and
        deemed to go about on the dust of the earth, like a snake.
        Satan is striped of angelic capasity. His only power is twisting
        truth and promoting lies, and tempting disobedience to holiness,
        goodness, kindness and the like. Of coarse , if one subjects themself
        to the devil, there are other powers they could wish they never
        tangled with. But for the redeemed, we are reunited to the status of
        pre-fallen Adam, and greater. Not only do we have dominion over our
        own world around us, we have been deligated the authority God gave to
        Jesus; That's a lot of power !

        A demon can present itself as an alien, even as it can appear as an
        angel of light, but it can not fly. It's been demoted to the dust of
        the earth.

        There has been plenty of science fiction suggesting evil is
        allpowerful, and showing satan with wings. Satan and all demons have
        no wings, no glory, no joy except to do wrong.

        When scripture refers to wars in the heavens, it is in reference to
        something that happened before the fall in Edan.

        It is confusing to read scripture if one doesnt know how to see, that
        chronalogical order is not always in order; it tends to jump around.

        People are the ones who misuse ufos and the alien presence, to
        promote the occult ,satanism , and several antichrist and new age
        platforms. No doubt satan is inspiring them, but he is not flying
        around.

        Like when satan went before God to make accusations, it was posible
        because God was going about to and fro in the earth; He was on this
        ground.

        Now I suppose an alien or group of aliens could become subject to
        demonic influence, and try to deceive us. Either way, we are never to
        accept anything anyone says contrary to the Holy Inspired word of the
        Gospel.

        To close I'll say this; I am not above rebuke, and can be in err to
        some degree on some point. Dont take my word for anything. Seek to
        know the truth you need your own self.
        Even though I know my genuineness and sincerity, satan can come as a
        man of peace and wisdom, so think for yourself. Never let somebody do
        the thinking for you; Which I trust most likely you Do, but it's
        worth saying.

        ufolight.





        --- In antigravityufotypepropulsion@yahoogroups.com, david ong
        <darkdave3000@y...> wrote:
        > hi,
        >
        > Im a born again Christian and also a moderator of a
        > few groups.
        >
        > i probably wouldnt have removed mr antigay but
        > continue to try and convince him of the truth. After
        > all he is a soul that needs saving. Who knows? Maybe
        > your words were making an impact on his life behind
        > the scenes! But it's your group and u can run it as u
        > c fit.
        >
        > As for UFOs visiting us... i always wondered about
        > wether they are really demons disguised as aliens just
        > seduce us in the future. It would be a very clever
        > plan for them to land one day and seduce the whole
        > world and start the kingdom of the anti christ that
        > way.
        >
        > What do u think?
        >
        > Dave
        > Computer Science student
        > Murdoch University
        > Perth
        > Western Australia
        >
        > __________________________________
        > Do you Yahoo!?
        > Yahoo! Finance: Get your refund fast by filing online.
        > http://taxes.yahoo.com/filing.html
      • David
        Hi, read ur reply, i probably will have to disagree about your say about demons not being able to fly. According to my understanding yes Satan was cast to the
        Message 3 of 6 , Feb 13 7:13 PM
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          Hi,

          read ur reply, i probably will have to disagree about your say about
          demons not being able to fly. According to my understanding yes
          Satan was cast to the Earth but he and his demons can fly around the
          Universe as we know it known as the 2nd heaven. He was cast down
          from 1st heaven to Earth which is in 2nd heaven. But he can roam
          around 2nd heaven.

          The bible describe 3 heavens:

          1st Heaven: God's intense presence where the Saints go when they die
          and where Jesus sits on the right hand side of the throne of the
          Feather in Heaven. 1st heaven could be another universe or dimension
          or whatever.. i dont know... but i do know its not the same as space
          as we know it.

          2nd Heaven: Space. Galaxies etc.

          3rd Heaven: The sky and the clouds. Earth's atmosphere.

          If you do a word search on bible.com in the NIV translation for
          heaven youll see some reference to the phrase "3rd Heaven" etc.

          Also remember scripture says we wage war not against flesh and blood
          but forces of darkness in HIGH PLACES.

          The scripture regarding going to and fro the Earth. I remember
          diferently, it was Satan who was going back and forth around the
          Earth according to my recollection. When God asked him what he was
          doing Satan gave that statement. So according to my understanding it
          was Satan who went toward God and God asked him what if he had
          considered Job and what he was doing on Earth etc.

          Perhaps the Father was at a meeting point between 2nd and 1st heaven
          so he could talk to Satan.

          If you read the book "A DEVINE REVELATION OF HELL" by Mary K Baxter
          a Holy Spirit anointed book that is recomended by Marilyn Hicky,
          there is a description by Mary about how she was taken into space
          around Earth by Jesus where she saw demons flying around in space.

          Regarding antigray (sorry i know i spelled his name wrong
          previously).

          You think perhaps there is a possibility that he merely disagrees
          with your point of view genuinely as human error? If thats the case
          then maybe you should measure wether or not his being disruptive to
          the group regardless of his indipendant understanding of God. As
          long as his not cussing or using the Lord's name in vein etc i dont
          see why he has to go.

          Surely his entitled to his opinion as long as he doesnt become a
          disruption. As long as youre replying his emails and correcting him
          and he isnt repeating him self then i dont see why he has to be
          kicked out.

          I mean whats the point for forcing some 1 to see our point of view
          to stay in the group? Kinda counter productive for the kingdom of
          God also. Idealy we should pray for them and let them be positively
          influence by us.

          If you feel he is indeed contaminating this group with blasphemy
          then perhaps you could ask him to censor his own language or not to
          post regarding this subject anymore so that he can continue to be
          here to discuss about UFO propulsion? just a thought.

          Dave



          --- In antigravityufotypepropulsion@yahoogroups.com, ufolight
          <no_reply@y...> wrote:
          > Hello Dave.
          >
          > The action against antigray was not one I like doing, but I
          openly
          > rebuked the serious errors on his web site about God, and he came
          > back trying to cover it up by posting messages that were not even
          > true to what he says.
          >
          > One thing a group I moderate will not tolarate is continual
          > blasphemous statements against the Truth. If I allow it, I am
          guilty
          > of approval, and others may become deceived.
          >
          > I care about that person, and communicated in a manner
          permitting a
          > humble approach. Getting booted from a yahoo group is one thing,
          but
          > getting blocked out of the heavenly abode is extreemly serious.
          > In a sence, real love can be like a velvet coated brick;
          sometimes
          > it's the only way someone will see the serverity and change.
          >
          > I have dealt with that person for a long time, and the words I
          > offered would not change him. I still hope the best for him, but
          not
          > here.
          >
          > ___
          >
          > As for the ufo/demon theory;
          > I will not make my personal experience seal my thoughts, but
          what
          > is written.
          >
          > In scripture, it says that satan was cast down to the earth, and
          > deemed to go about on the dust of the earth, like a snake.
          > Satan is striped of angelic capasity. His only power is twisting
          > truth and promoting lies, and tempting disobedience to holiness,
          > goodness, kindness and the like. Of coarse , if one subjects
          themself
          > to the devil, there are other powers they could wish they never
          > tangled with. But for the redeemed, we are reunited to the status
          of
          > pre-fallen Adam, and greater. Not only do we have dominion over
          our
          > own world around us, we have been deligated the authority God gave
          to
          > Jesus; That's a lot of power !
          >
          > A demon can present itself as an alien, even as it can appear as
          an
          > angel of light, but it can not fly. It's been demoted to the dust
          of
          > the earth.
          >
          > There has been plenty of science fiction suggesting evil is
          > allpowerful, and showing satan with wings. Satan and all demons
          have
          > no wings, no glory, no joy except to do wrong.
          >
          > When scripture refers to wars in the heavens, it is in reference
          to
          > something that happened before the fall in Edan.
          >
          > It is confusing to read scripture if one doesnt know how to see,
          that
          > chronalogical order is not always in order; it tends to jump
          around.
          >
          > People are the ones who misuse ufos and the alien presence, to
          > promote the occult ,satanism , and several antichrist and new age
          > platforms. No doubt satan is inspiring them, but he is not flying
          > around.
          >
          > Like when satan went before God to make accusations, it was
          posible
          > because God was going about to and fro in the earth; He was on
          this
          > ground.
          >
          > Now I suppose an alien or group of aliens could become subject to
          > demonic influence, and try to deceive us. Either way, we are never
          to
          > accept anything anyone says contrary to the Holy Inspired word of
          the
          > Gospel.
          >
          > To close I'll say this; I am not above rebuke, and can be in err
          to
          > some degree on some point. Dont take my word for anything. Seek to
          > know the truth you need your own self.
          > Even though I know my genuineness and sincerity, satan can come as
          a
          > man of peace and wisdom, so think for yourself. Never let somebody
          do
          > the thinking for you; Which I trust most likely you Do, but it's
          > worth saying.
          >
          > ufolight.
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          > --- In antigravityufotypepropulsion@yahoogroups.com, david ong
          > <darkdave3000@y...> wrote:
          > > hi,
          > >
          > > Im a born again Christian and also a moderator of a
          > > few groups.
          > >
          > > i probably wouldnt have removed mr antigay but
          > > continue to try and convince him of the truth. After
          > > all he is a soul that needs saving. Who knows? Maybe
          > > your words were making an impact on his life behind
          > > the scenes! But it's your group and u can run it as u
          > > c fit.
          > >
          > > As for UFOs visiting us... i always wondered about
          > > wether they are really demons disguised as aliens just
          > > seduce us in the future. It would be a very clever
          > > plan for them to land one day and seduce the whole
          > > world and start the kingdom of the anti christ that
          > > way.
          > >
          > > What do u think?
          > >
          > > Dave
          > > Computer Science student
          > > Murdoch University
          > > Perth
          > > Western Australia
          > >
          > > __________________________________
          > > Do you Yahoo!?
          > > Yahoo! Finance: Get your refund fast by filing online.
          > > http://taxes.yahoo.com/filing.html
        • ufolight
          Hats off to Dave ! You got me going. I searched in http://www.sacrednamebible.com/kjvstrongs/CONINDEX.htm# and found you are correct ! I normally read KJV,
          Message 4 of 6 , Feb 13 10:02 PM
          • 0 Attachment
            Hats off to Dave !

            You got me going. I searched in
            http://www.sacrednamebible.com/kjvstrongs/CONINDEX.htm#
            and found you are correct !
            I normally read KJV, which uses the same words "high places" , which
            is only one word in the greek, meaning: above the sky; celestial.

            You just did a wonderful thing for me.

            Thank You Very Much !

            "reprove a wise man and he will love you"

            Your the kind of brother I need; one who can strike the iron to iron
            the right way and get a sharper sword.

            Now I have no basis to trust that demons couldnt be in ufo craft.

            I am only one person, who , even though I've given to study biblical
            greek and hebrew over 20 years, am still one person, in need of this
            kind of fellowship. Each of us is limited by our personal encounters
            and experiences in many ways, the teaching we hear, the fellowship we
            get, the personal research we do, the revelation we get; all that is
            great and needed, but still limited. So we continue submitting
            ourselves to each other, and God continues his work in us.

            I have no pride in being shown to be wrong, that is what I love! Love
            rejoices in the truth.

            Thanks Dave,,
            ufolight.


            --- In antigravityufotypepropulsion@yahoogroups.com, "David"
            <darkdave3000@y...> wrote:
            >
            > Hi,
            >
            > read ur reply, i probably will have to disagree about your say
            about
            > demons not being able to fly. According to my understanding yes
            > Satan was cast to the Earth but he and his demons can fly around
            the
            > Universe as we know it known as the 2nd heaven. He was cast down
            > from 1st heaven to Earth which is in 2nd heaven. But he can roam
            > around 2nd heaven.
            >
            > The bible describe 3 heavens:
            >
            > 1st Heaven: God's intense presence where the Saints go when they
            die
            > and where Jesus sits on the right hand side of the throne of the
            > Feather in Heaven. 1st heaven could be another universe or
            dimension
            > or whatever.. i dont know... but i do know its not the same as
            space
            > as we know it.
            >
            > 2nd Heaven: Space. Galaxies etc.
            >
            > 3rd Heaven: The sky and the clouds. Earth's atmosphere.
            >
            > If you do a word search on bible.com in the NIV translation for
            > heaven youll see some reference to the phrase "3rd Heaven" etc.
            >
            > Also remember scripture says we wage war not against flesh and
            blood
            > but forces of darkness in HIGH PLACES.
            >
            > The scripture regarding going to and fro the Earth. I remember
            > diferently, it was Satan who was going back and forth around the
            > Earth according to my recollection. When God asked him what he was
            > doing Satan gave that statement. So according to my understanding
            it
            > was Satan who went toward God and God asked him what if he had
            > considered Job and what he was doing on Earth etc.
            >
            > Perhaps the Father was at a meeting point between 2nd and 1st
            heaven
            > so he could talk to Satan.
            >
            > If you read the book "A DEVINE REVELATION OF HELL" by Mary K Baxter
            > a Holy Spirit anointed book that is recomended by Marilyn Hicky,
            > there is a description by Mary about how she was taken into space
            > around Earth by Jesus where she saw demons flying around in space.
            >
            > Regarding antigray (sorry i know i spelled his name wrong
            > previously).
            >
            > You think perhaps there is a possibility that he merely disagrees
            > with your point of view genuinely as human error? If thats the case
            > then maybe you should measure wether or not his being disruptive to
            > the group regardless of his indipendant understanding of God. As
            > long as his not cussing or using the Lord's name in vein etc i dont
            > see why he has to go.
            >
            > Surely his entitled to his opinion as long as he doesnt become a
            > disruption. As long as youre replying his emails and correcting him
            > and he isnt repeating him self then i dont see why he has to be
            > kicked out.
            >
            > I mean whats the point for forcing some 1 to see our point of view
            > to stay in the group? Kinda counter productive for the kingdom of
            > God also. Idealy we should pray for them and let them be positively
            > influence by us.
            >
            > If you feel he is indeed contaminating this group with blasphemy
            > then perhaps you could ask him to censor his own language or not to
            > post regarding this subject anymore so that he can continue to be
            > here to discuss about UFO propulsion? just a thought.
            >
            > Dave
            >
            >
            >
            > --- In antigravityufotypepropulsion@yahoogroups.com, ufolight
            > <no_reply@y...> wrote:
            > > Hello Dave.
            > >
            > > The action against antigray was not one I like doing, but I
            > openly
            > > rebuked the serious errors on his web site about God, and he came
            > > back trying to cover it up by posting messages that were not even
            > > true to what he says.
            > >
            > > One thing a group I moderate will not tolarate is continual
            > > blasphemous statements against the Truth. If I allow it, I am
            > guilty
            > > of approval, and others may become deceived.
            > >
            > > I care about that person, and communicated in a manner
            > permitting a
            > > humble approach. Getting booted from a yahoo group is one thing,
            > but
            > > getting blocked out of the heavenly abode is extreemly serious.
            > > In a sence, real love can be like a velvet coated brick;
            > sometimes
            > > it's the only way someone will see the serverity and change.
            > >
            > > I have dealt with that person for a long time, and the words I
            > > offered would not change him. I still hope the best for him, but
            > not
            > > here.
            > >
            > > ___
            > >
            > > As for the ufo/demon theory;
            > > I will not make my personal experience seal my thoughts, but
            > what
            > > is written.
            > >
            > > In scripture, it says that satan was cast down to the earth, and
            > > deemed to go about on the dust of the earth, like a snake.
            > > Satan is striped of angelic capasity. His only power is twisting
            > > truth and promoting lies, and tempting disobedience to holiness,
            > > goodness, kindness and the like. Of coarse , if one subjects
            > themself
            > > to the devil, there are other powers they could wish they never
            > > tangled with. But for the redeemed, we are reunited to the status
            > of
            > > pre-fallen Adam, and greater. Not only do we have dominion over
            > our
            > > own world around us, we have been deligated the authority God
            gave
            > to
            > > Jesus; That's a lot of power !
            > >
            > > A demon can present itself as an alien, even as it can appear as
            > an
            > > angel of light, but it can not fly. It's been demoted to the dust
            > of
            > > the earth.
            > >
            > > There has been plenty of science fiction suggesting evil is
            > > allpowerful, and showing satan with wings. Satan and all demons
            > have
            > > no wings, no glory, no joy except to do wrong.
            > >
            > > When scripture refers to wars in the heavens, it is in reference
            > to
            > > something that happened before the fall in Edan.
            > >
            > > It is confusing to read scripture if one doesnt know how to see,
            > that
            > > chronalogical order is not always in order; it tends to jump
            > around.
            > >
            > > People are the ones who misuse ufos and the alien presence, to
            > > promote the occult ,satanism , and several antichrist and new age
            > > platforms. No doubt satan is inspiring them, but he is not flying
            > > around.
            > >
            > > Like when satan went before God to make accusations, it was
            > posible
            > > because God was going about to and fro in the earth; He was on
            > this
            > > ground.
            > >
            > > Now I suppose an alien or group of aliens could become subject to
            > > demonic influence, and try to deceive us. Either way, we are
            never
            > to
            > > accept anything anyone says contrary to the Holy Inspired word of
            > the
            > > Gospel.
            > >
            > > To close I'll say this; I am not above rebuke, and can be in err
            > to
            > > some degree on some point. Dont take my word for anything. Seek
            to
            > > know the truth you need your own self.
            > > Even though I know my genuineness and sincerity, satan can come
            as
            > a
            > > man of peace and wisdom, so think for yourself. Never let
            somebody
            > do
            > > the thinking for you; Which I trust most likely you Do, but it's
            > > worth saying.
            > >
            > > ufolight.
            > >
            > >
            > >
            > >
            > >
            > > --- In antigravityufotypepropulsion@yahoogroups.com, david ong
            > > <darkdave3000@y...> wrote:
            > > > hi,
            > > >
            > > > Im a born again Christian and also a moderator of a
            > > > few groups.
            > > >
            > > > i probably wouldnt have removed mr antigay but
            > > > continue to try and convince him of the truth. After
            > > > all he is a soul that needs saving. Who knows? Maybe
            > > > your words were making an impact on his life behind
            > > > the scenes! But it's your group and u can run it as u
            > > > c fit.
            > > >
            > > > As for UFOs visiting us... i always wondered about
            > > > wether they are really demons disguised as aliens just
            > > > seduce us in the future. It would be a very clever
            > > > plan for them to land one day and seduce the whole
            > > > world and start the kingdom of the anti christ that
            > > > way.
            > > >
            > > > What do u think?
            > > >
            > > > Dave
            > > > Computer Science student
            > > > Murdoch University
            > > > Perth
            > > > Western Australia
            > > >
            > > > __________________________________
            > > > Do you Yahoo!?
            > > > Yahoo! Finance: Get your refund fast by filing online.
            > > > http://taxes.yahoo.com/filing.html
          • david ong
            No problemo, or as we say here in Australia: No worries :) I still hope ull reconsider antigrey s membership status tho. I kinda feel a little sorry for the
            Message 5 of 6 , Feb 14 5:44 AM
            • 0 Attachment
              No problemo, or as we say here in Australia: No
              worries :)

              I still hope ull reconsider antigrey's membership
              status tho. I kinda feel a little sorry for the fella.

              Dave

              ------------ORIGINAL MESSAGE------------
              Message: 6
              Date: Sat, 14 Feb 2004 06:02:29 -0000
              From: ufolight
              Subject: Re: antigay & demonic UFO conspiracy

              Hats off to Dave !

              You got me going. I searched in
              http://www.sacrednamebible.com/kjvstrongs/CONINDEX.htm#
              and found you are correct !
              I normally read KJV, which uses the same words "high
              places" , which
              is only one word in the greek, meaning: above the sky;
              celestial.

              You just did a wonderful thing for me.

              Thank You Very Much !

              "reprove a wise man and he will love you"

              Your the kind of brother I need; one who can strike
              the iron to iron
              the right way and get a sharper sword.

              Now I have no basis to trust that demons couldnt be in
              ufo craft.

              I am only one person, who , even though I've given to
              study biblical
              greek and hebrew over 20 years, am still one person,
              in need of this
              kind of fellowship. Each of us is limited by our
              personal encounters
              and experiences in many ways, the teaching we hear,
              the fellowship we
              get, the personal research we do, the revelation we
              get; all that is
              great and needed, but still limited. So we continue
              submitting
              ourselves to each other, and God continues his work in
              us.

              I have no pride in being shown to be wrong, that is
              what I love! Love
              rejoices in the truth.

              Thanks Dave,,
              ufolight.


              __________________________________
              Do you Yahoo!?
              Yahoo! Finance: Get your refund fast by filing online.
              http://taxes.yahoo.com/filing.html
            • marycozzens@webtv.net
              ... just jumping in to agree; having seen antigrey and his posts over the past several years, it i clear that his inent is to make peple believe what he does,
              Message 6 of 6 , Feb 14 12:33 PM
              • 0 Attachment
                --- In antigravityufotypepropulsion@yahoogroups.com, david ong <darkdave3000@y...> wrote:
                > No problemo, or as we say here in Australia: No
                > worries :)
                >
                > I still hope ull reconsider antigrey's membership
                > status tho. I kinda feel a little sorry for the fella.
                >
                > Dave
                >
                > ------------ORIGINAL MESSAGE------------
                > Message: 6
                > Date: Sat, 14 Feb 2004 06:02:29 -0000
                > From: ufolight
                > Subject: Re: antigay & demonic UFO conspiracy
                >
                > Hats off to Dave !
                >
                > You got me going. I searched in
                > http://www.sacrednamebible.com/kjvstrongs/CONINDEX.htm#
                > and found you are correct !
                > I normally read KJV, which uses the same words "high
                > places" , which
                > is only one word in the greek, meaning: above the sky;
                > celestial.
                >
                > You just did a wonderful thing for me.
                >
                > Thank You Very Much !
                >
                > "reprove a wise man and he will love you"
                >
                > Your the kind of brother I need; one who can strike
                > the iron to iron
                > the right way and get a sharper sword.
                >
                > Now I have no basis to trust that demons couldnt be in
                > ufo craft.
                >
                > I am only one person, who , even though I've given to
                > study biblical
                > greek and hebrew over 20 years, am still one person,
                > in need of this
                > kind of fellowship. Each of us is limited by our
                > personal encounters
                > and experiences in many ways, the teaching we hear,
                > the fellowship we
                > get, the personal research we do, the revelation we
                > get; all that is
                > great and needed, but still limited. So we continue
                > submitting
                > ourselves to each other, and God continues his work in
                > us.
                >
                > I have no pride in being shown to be wrong, that is
                > what I love! Love
                > rejoices in the truth.
                >
                > Thanks Dave,,
                > ufolight.
                >
                >
                > __________________________________
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                > Yahoo! Finance: Get your refund fast by filing online.
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                just jumping in to agree;
                having seen antigrey and his posts over the past several years, it i clear that his inent is to make peple believe what he does, not to listen to anything else.
                pray for him, but bothering to try to get his interest ianything you say is currently futile.
                lots of prayer for his sort.
                Ginny
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