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Re: [anthroposophy_tomorrow] Re: occult lodges and islam

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  • Tarjei Straume
    ... I thought that would be the case of the Slavic peoples, the Russians. ... The way I see it, St. Michael, or Christ-Michael (the archai leading humanity
    Message 1 of 31 , Nov 6, 2003
      At 05:03 06.11.2003, Dottie wrote:

      >Dear Tarjei,
      >I believe what we are facing in Iraq is a bringing/melting together
      >of the Christic principles for the future of Cosmic/Human Evolution.

      I thought that would be the case of the Slavic peoples, the Russians.

      >I believe it is the spiritual worlds push for religious peoples of
      >the world to look past Jesus and Mohammed, to the Godhead of whence
      >we came whither we go.

      The way I see it, St. Michael, or Christ-Michael (the archai leading
      humanity since he replaced Gabriel in 1879) is pushing for religious
      peoples to abandon Old Age religions altogether. Such religions belong to a
      bygone era, which means that they are being taken over by ahrimanic forces.
      Religion based primarily or exclusively upon revelations of old and upon
      old scriptures about such, pursue the principle of unconditional surrender
      to an external authority, which is antithetical to the principle of
      self-dependence and the autonomy of the individual found in the PoF. RS
      said somewhere that the PoF is Christ's message to humanity today: The
      message of individual freedom.


      >In my opinion it is Islam that truly validates Jesus' message of Love
      >through, in and of, Sophia. I believe this is what the message of
      >Mohammed really proclaims for those who have eyes to see and ears to

      Frankly, I must disagree with this rather strongly. Muslims are threatened
      with execution or assassination for the "crime" of converting to another
      religion (like Christianity or Buddhism, or atheism for that matter).
      Mohammed was a highway robber and a very violent man with plenty of blood
      on his hands. According to RS, his revelation was genuine, but remember it
      came from Gabriel, and following a violent religion from the age of Gabriel
      with such tenacity and mass conformity in our day and age is not healthy.
      None of this reminds me of Jesus' message of Love, and especially not of
      what the spiritual world wishes to communicate to humanity today.


      >It seems to me that mostly people look at the message of the Prophet
      >as a literal one. It is not. And if there were truly any Christians
      >who wish to pierce the veil to bridge the gap of understanding, they
      >would look to the Qoran (sp). Just as Christianity has most of its
      >messages veiled so does Islam.

      The Sufi tradition perhaps. Are you familiar with it?


      >Islam is beautiful and will be empowered even further I believe
      >through this interaction with the West. I believe Christians will be
      >humbled. Almost as if there is a pact for the spirit to win the mind
      >versus the mind winning the spirit.

      It would be nice if you are right about it. Frankly, I hope so, but I'm not
      convinced. I find it difficult to discern any Islamic movement that is not
      spellbound by the ethos and outlook of the Old Testament on the one hand,
      and blind obedience on the other. A very destructive combination. I have
      never heard a believing Muslim speaking on behalf of his/her religion utter
      a single self-dependent, autonomous idea about spiritual matters. It's
      always what the Koran says and what it doesn't say. Whatever you think
      _must_ be supported by some verse from that book. Look how destructive this
      kind of "scriptural" fundamentalism has become in the West. All the
      unspeakable miscief from the CIA and the Pentagon is being fuelled by the
      fears and vindictiveness that lives and thrives in the Religious Right, the
      Christian Coalition and so on. If it were up to me, I would send all the
      Christian fundies and the nutty Muslims out to an island where they could
      slug it out among themselves. They deserve each other. They're of the same ilk.

      Here's an appropriate RS lecture: "Specters of the Old Testament in the
      Nationalism of the Present" - Dornach December 7, 1918 (Die Soziale
      Grundforderung unserer Zeit, GA 186).

    • dottie zold
      Hi Tarjei, In reading this book by Karen Armstrong I am getting a better feel for Muhammed and what he endeavored to bring to his people. One of the things
      Message 31 of 31 , Nov 14, 2003
        Hi Tarjei,

        In reading this book by Karen Armstrong I am getting a
        better 'feel' for Muhammed and what he endeavored to
        bring to his people.

        One of the things that strikes me is that its path was
        similar to that of Judiasm: in order to get to one God
        they had to take down the 'daughters of God'. That was
        the missing piece for Muhammed on the way to
        monotheism as it was for the Jews.

        Interestingly as well is that what he was working on
        was a change of consciousness from family blood ties
        to spirit ties that outgrow the familial bounds
        similar to Jesus' concepts in a way.

        I find that Muhammed was very much inspired by the
        story of Mary and Jesus. There is a reference to them
        early on that actually insinuates to the exoteric way
        of reading her being a virgin. However when reading it
        from an esoteric level the 'veil' being lifted is
        clearly understood.

        Well, what I am coming to is that Muhammed seems to
        have brought a religion that centered on surrendering
        (islam) ones total self to God. And the way to show
        that was through letting go of worldly goods and
        giving to the poor and taking care of them. But what
        strikes me is this absolute 'feel' I have about the
        self (nafas) getting its house in order. So, in a way
        although it is one religion it seems to be made up of
        singular people on a quest for God. Although they call
        themselves Muslims as one their quest is really each
        one by themselves. It kind of reminds me a wee bit of
        Self Realization Fellowship by Paramahansa Yogananda.
        It has that sense of righting oneself before God.
        Almost like he took the Christ revelation and and then
        became one of the men that achieved a self
        revelation. Almost reminds me of the snake.

        At one point the book speaks of 'exciting' the hatred
        of the Jews. It is pretty apparant that they were
        considered 'trash' among the peoples in that region.
        And it seems they truly never recovered even unto this
        day their own sense of worth. Almost as if they are
        always in the place of having to defend their honor.
        And not really only their own but that of their
        Prophet as well. They know he is not what the Western
        world says and they are always fighting some uphill
        battle in their minds.

        One last thing before I go. I find it extremely
        interesting that the Satanic Versus as related by
        Rushdie actually speak to two lines where Muhammed
        gave credence to the 'daughters of God'. He then tried
        to and actually did take the versus back and claimed
        that they were slaves just as the everyday people
        were, and that one could not look to them for guidance
        or help.

        Well, maybe this is the last piece before I go:) They
        have the most remarkable references to Satan that I
        have ever seen. To them their was no original sin.
        Muhammed believed that this was all a part of Gods
        plan. That in the end Satan will be the last to be
        saved but he will be. Also he states that it is Satan
        who loved God the most. I think of Lucifer here.

        Anyway, the more I read of this Muhammed the more I
        come to understand how he was able to achieve what he
        did in such a short time. He truly had his face on God
        and inspired others to do the same.

        Tarjei you wrote:
        > This point of yours was actually corroborated by
        > Rudolf Steiner when he
        > said that Arabic materialism was blunted by the
        > emergence of Islam. So RS
        > implies that this religion was a progressive force
        > when it was introduced
        > in the 7th century. Apparently, the destructive
        > forces inherent in
        > "Arabism" and connected with 666, Sorath and so on,
        > has hijacked this
        > religious stream because it has outlived its alotted
        > era long ago.

        > Specific manifestations of egoism. When a young man
        > kills men, women, and
        > children at random by blowing himself to pieces with
        > them in the firm
        > belief that he will be rewarded with 70 virgins in
        > Paradise for such a
        > deed, we're not only talking about merciless egoism,
        > but a specific variety
        > of it, probably exclusively found among Muslims.


        Yeah, this thing with the virgins bothers me a bit. I
        think it is ridiculing them and this is not what
        Muhammed had in mind physically. When I sink into the
        Koran I will see what that means. In the mean time I
        am going to speak to my friend about this.

        I am not so sure it is found exclusively among Muslims
        but I do not know how to make the argument. What comes
        to mind are the 'fundies' of the world. We have people
        here in the states killing doctors who perform
        abortions in recent years. And I believe it will only
        get worse as the right gets more power in regards to
        other segments of society as well. We are about to
        face the 'gay rights to marriage issue' and this is a
        powder keg waiting to go. And they believe they are
        doing what God would want them to do. Its pretty
        And I wonder what is the difference regarding the ego
        of having 70 virgins versus doing an evil thing for
        Gods grace?


        p.s. I know I am not the best one to converse on this
        subject however I would like to say it has inspired me
        to become more knowledgable regarding a group of
        people who are going to light the world on fire.

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