Re: [anthroposophy_tomorrow] Re: occult lodges and islam
- At 05:03 06.11.2003, Dottie wrote:
>Dear Tarjei,I thought that would be the case of the Slavic peoples, the Russians.
>I believe what we are facing in Iraq is a bringing/melting together
>of the Christic principles for the future of Cosmic/Human Evolution.
>I believe it is the spiritual worlds push for religious peoples ofThe way I see it, St. Michael, or Christ-Michael (the archai leading
>the world to look past Jesus and Mohammed, to the Godhead of whence
>we came whither we go.
humanity since he replaced Gabriel in 1879) is pushing for religious
peoples to abandon Old Age religions altogether. Such religions belong to a
bygone era, which means that they are being taken over by ahrimanic forces.
Religion based primarily or exclusively upon revelations of old and upon
old scriptures about such, pursue the principle of unconditional surrender
to an external authority, which is antithetical to the principle of
self-dependence and the autonomy of the individual found in the PoF. RS
said somewhere that the PoF is Christ's message to humanity today: The
message of individual freedom.
>In my opinion it is Islam that truly validates Jesus' message of LoveFrankly, I must disagree with this rather strongly. Muslims are threatened
>through, in and of, Sophia. I believe this is what the message of
>Mohammed really proclaims for those who have eyes to see and ears to
with execution or assassination for the "crime" of converting to another
religion (like Christianity or Buddhism, or atheism for that matter).
Mohammed was a highway robber and a very violent man with plenty of blood
on his hands. According to RS, his revelation was genuine, but remember it
came from Gabriel, and following a violent religion from the age of Gabriel
with such tenacity and mass conformity in our day and age is not healthy.
None of this reminds me of Jesus' message of Love, and especially not of
what the spiritual world wishes to communicate to humanity today.
>It seems to me that mostly people look at the message of the ProphetThe Sufi tradition perhaps. Are you familiar with it?
>as a literal one. It is not. And if there were truly any Christians
>who wish to pierce the veil to bridge the gap of understanding, they
>would look to the Qoran (sp). Just as Christianity has most of its
>messages veiled so does Islam.
>Islam is beautiful and will be empowered even further I believeIt would be nice if you are right about it. Frankly, I hope so, but I'm not
>through this interaction with the West. I believe Christians will be
>humbled. Almost as if there is a pact for the spirit to win the mind
>versus the mind winning the spirit.
convinced. I find it difficult to discern any Islamic movement that is not
spellbound by the ethos and outlook of the Old Testament on the one hand,
and blind obedience on the other. A very destructive combination. I have
never heard a believing Muslim speaking on behalf of his/her religion utter
a single self-dependent, autonomous idea about spiritual matters. It's
always what the Koran says and what it doesn't say. Whatever you think
_must_ be supported by some verse from that book. Look how destructive this
kind of "scriptural" fundamentalism has become in the West. All the
unspeakable miscief from the CIA and the Pentagon is being fuelled by the
fears and vindictiveness that lives and thrives in the Religious Right, the
Christian Coalition and so on. If it were up to me, I would send all the
Christian fundies and the nutty Muslims out to an island where they could
slug it out among themselves. They deserve each other. They're of the same ilk.
Here's an appropriate RS lecture: "Specters of the Old Testament in the
Nationalism of the Present" - Dornach December 7, 1918 (Die Soziale
Grundforderung unserer Zeit, GA 186).
- Hi Tarjei,
In reading this book by Karen Armstrong I am getting a
better 'feel' for Muhammed and what he endeavored to
bring to his people.
One of the things that strikes me is that its path was
similar to that of Judiasm: in order to get to one God
they had to take down the 'daughters of God'. That was
the missing piece for Muhammed on the way to
monotheism as it was for the Jews.
Interestingly as well is that what he was working on
was a change of consciousness from family blood ties
to spirit ties that outgrow the familial bounds
similar to Jesus' concepts in a way.
I find that Muhammed was very much inspired by the
story of Mary and Jesus. There is a reference to them
early on that actually insinuates to the exoteric way
of reading her being a virgin. However when reading it
from an esoteric level the 'veil' being lifted is
Well, what I am coming to is that Muhammed seems to
have brought a religion that centered on surrendering
(islam) ones total self to God. And the way to show
that was through letting go of worldly goods and
giving to the poor and taking care of them. But what
strikes me is this absolute 'feel' I have about the
self (nafas) getting its house in order. So, in a way
although it is one religion it seems to be made up of
singular people on a quest for God. Although they call
themselves Muslims as one their quest is really each
one by themselves. It kind of reminds me a wee bit of
Self Realization Fellowship by Paramahansa Yogananda.
It has that sense of righting oneself before God.
Almost like he took the Christ revelation and and then
became one of the men that achieved a self
revelation. Almost reminds me of the snake.
At one point the book speaks of 'exciting' the hatred
of the Jews. It is pretty apparant that they were
considered 'trash' among the peoples in that region.
And it seems they truly never recovered even unto this
day their own sense of worth. Almost as if they are
always in the place of having to defend their honor.
And not really only their own but that of their
Prophet as well. They know he is not what the Western
world says and they are always fighting some uphill
battle in their minds.
One last thing before I go. I find it extremely
interesting that the Satanic Versus as related by
Rushdie actually speak to two lines where Muhammed
gave credence to the 'daughters of God'. He then tried
to and actually did take the versus back and claimed
that they were slaves just as the everyday people
were, and that one could not look to them for guidance
Well, maybe this is the last piece before I go:) They
have the most remarkable references to Satan that I
have ever seen. To them their was no original sin.
Muhammed believed that this was all a part of Gods
plan. That in the end Satan will be the last to be
saved but he will be. Also he states that it is Satan
who loved God the most. I think of Lucifer here.
Anyway, the more I read of this Muhammed the more I
come to understand how he was able to achieve what he
did in such a short time. He truly had his face on God
and inspired others to do the same.
Tarjei you wrote:
> This point of yours was actually corroborated byTarjei
> Rudolf Steiner when he
> said that Arabic materialism was blunted by the
> emergence of Islam. So RS
> implies that this religion was a progressive force
> when it was introduced
> in the 7th century. Apparently, the destructive
> forces inherent in
> "Arabism" and connected with 666, Sorath and so on,
> has hijacked this
> religious stream because it has outlived its alotted
> era long ago.
> Specific manifestations of egoism. When a young manDottie
> kills men, women, and
> children at random by blowing himself to pieces with
> them in the firm
> belief that he will be rewarded with 70 virgins in
> Paradise for such a
> deed, we're not only talking about merciless egoism,
> but a specific variety
> of it, probably exclusively found among Muslims.
Yeah, this thing with the virgins bothers me a bit. I
think it is ridiculing them and this is not what
Muhammed had in mind physically. When I sink into the
Koran I will see what that means. In the mean time I
am going to speak to my friend about this.
I am not so sure it is found exclusively among Muslims
but I do not know how to make the argument. What comes
to mind are the 'fundies' of the world. We have people
here in the states killing doctors who perform
abortions in recent years. And I believe it will only
get worse as the right gets more power in regards to
other segments of society as well. We are about to
face the 'gay rights to marriage issue' and this is a
powder keg waiting to go. And they believe they are
doing what God would want them to do. Its pretty
And I wonder what is the difference regarding the ego
of having 70 virgins versus doing an evil thing for
p.s. I know I am not the best one to converse on this
subject however I would like to say it has inspired me
to become more knowledgable regarding a group of
people who are going to light the world on fire.
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