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Within the Box of Materialistic

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  • Steve Haag
    ... fucking call for love, nothing, I MEAN NOTHING!!!can reasonably explain making this call by using a child. Maybe you re trying to find a way to
    Message 1 of 2 , Nov 25, 2004
      Griselda wrote:

      > That bullshit about call for love...c'mon!!!!Even if it is a
      fucking call for love, nothing, I MEAN NOTHING!!!can reasonably
      explain making this call by using a child. Maybe you're trying to
      find a way to understand child abusers but, look, the best way is
      this one, by some Tibetan dude: "No one in his right mind would
      knowingly harm another human being." So, there it is, they are FUCKED
      UP IN THE HEAD. Period. And they have to pay for their fucked up ways


      Yes, I agree. It's fucked up. People suffer incredibly. The person
      who does the act should face what he's done, should make right what
      he'd made wrong. And that's not possible to take back the error, to
      undo the pain. He's in an impossible situation. I'm just not sure how
      best to deal with him, after the fact. Old Testament said eye for an
      eye, or stoning or burning at the stake or whatever. Jesus said he
      came to fulfill the law: Love God and love your brother as yourself.
      So how can the victims and the loved ones and society that surrounds
      them respond to this hideous offense in a way that loves their
      brother as themselves? Do we strike back at those who are out of
      their right minds? Does that help?

      When I was little, I accidentally released the break on my dad's
      spiffy little sports car and it rolled down into another car and got
      a dent at the tip of the front of its carefully restored body. I
      blamed it on my cousin who was younger and couldn't even defend
      herself. My parents believed me. I carried this guilt to maturity,
      when a number of years later, I felt so horrible about not only the
      accident I caused by about lying that I suddenly confessed one day to
      my mother. She didn't punish me as she could see I'd punished myself
      enough. My question here is what will heal the best for everyone?
      Attacking back? That sounds like more negative force, and we know we
      don't like negative forces coming our way. Do we want to justify
      serving them up to others?

      >I were you, I would throw that book or whatever where you got this
      retarded idea of only two kinds of acts, "give love and call for
      love" in the fucking trash. And take a dump on top of it.

      This feels like attacking me back for my being out of my right mind.
      And being attacked doesn't feel like a solution. It feels bad to my
      heart. I feel betrayed, when I wanted to do something good and it
      turned bad, and now I feel I'm being slammed. I hear that you are
      asking for me to be sensitive to you and I haven't been, so you are
      now being insensitive to me as recompense. Doesn't feel healing.
      Maybe it's tough love healing. Maybe that's what I needed to hear.

      > doesn't make sense!!! I mean, even in the simplest level!!Like, for
      instance, mailing a bill, what is this? Give or call for love? Taking
      a piss? Putting my socks on? And don't go on trying to make it all
      relative "oh well if the bill is to pay for a gift for somebody blah
      blah blah". No, some acts are NOT a call for love or a love gift.
      Period. Again, too much goody goody silly stuff has the same
      potential of fucking up your head as too much of the opposite, you

      I'm sorry if what I've said has offended you. I didn't mean to do
      that. These kinds of thoughts have been interesting to me and have
      felt right in a simple and profound way to me. But it doesn't speak
      to you, so I've missed the mark. The mark I was after was a place
      where we could meet beyond suffering and blame and rage and
      counterattack. A place of healing where we can embrace in some kind
      of remembered relief. A place where we really can see our brothers
      and sisters as ourselves and can share the responsibility for being
      in this world together where the worst kinds of things happen as well
      as the most wonderful kinds of things happen and where can create
      more of the latter.

      I failed. I keep open for not failing.

    • Griselda Andersen
      Steve wrote wrote: Hi Steve, Look, I don t want to let this long e-mail you wrote me pass unoticed so I m writing you now but the fact is, and I hope you get
      Message 2 of 2 , Nov 26, 2004
        Steve wrote> wrote:

        Hi Steve,
        Look, I don't want to let this long e-mail you wrote
        me pass unoticed so I'm writing you now but the fact
        is, and I hope you get it this time, I already wrote
        about all the points you brought up here again in my
        previous e-mails on the subject. I mean, my opinion is
        there if you're interested, just read them again. It
        seems you want to go on about this stuff and I hope
        you find others interested in doing so, but I am not.
        I have never been abused or raped and I feel all I had
        to say on this subject for the moment is already out
        there. So, please just drop it (with me, I mean). And
        no need to write me again apologizing or anything.
        Really, no need. I'll see you around, probably in
        some lighter threads, ok?


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