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Quote for Val/Re - Research for Ivan

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  • Jan
    Hello Val, First let me say how much I enjoy your contributions! I loved your Yellow Brick Road post. Quote from where I left off yesterday. Again I say that
    Message 1 of 2 , Nov 2, 2004
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      Hello Val,
      First let me say how much I enjoy your contributions! I loved your Yellow
      Brick Road post.

      Quote from where I left off yesterday. Again I say that lectures really need
      to be read in sequence and in full, but time presses!

      Lecture thirteen from The Book of Revelation and the Work of the Priest
      available from Rudolf Steiner Press.

      Quote - "So the question can arise, and indeed must arise as to how one
      should behave towards such people.
      This can be quite a difficult task, for such people often have deep
      feelings; they can have very deep feelings and yet one notices that there is
      no actual individuality in them. Of course the fact that there is no
      individuality in them must be carefully concealed from them for otherwise
      they would go mad. Despite having to conceal this from them one must ensure
      that such souls - for souls they are , even if not spirit - can make contact
      with other human beings and can develop in their wake, so that they can, as
      it were, tag along with the others. Such human beings fairly accurately
      demonstrate the nature and being of man up to the twentieth year, for it is
      not until the twentieth year that the mind soul or intellectual soul is
      born, which is what provides the possibility for the 'I' to live on the
      earth.
      It is a great error to believe that one need not behave compassionately
      towards these 'I-less', individuality-less human beings on the grounds that
      as they have no individuality they will have no future incarnations.
      Someone who believed that would equally have to believe that one need not
      behave compassionately towards children. In each case one has to discover
      what is present in such people. In some cases it might be a posthumous
      soul, posthumous in comparison with souls who came into being at a
      particular stage of evolution and have repeatedly been incarnated as human
      beings.
      Others might be retarded souls who have come back from another planet to
      which the whole of humanity once went at a specific time. This kind of
      soul, too, can enter such a human body. In full awareness of this we must
      bring up such human beings like eternal children.
      All this is hidden in the Book of Revelation. The pictures that appear
      are sometimes quite heart- rending and it is terrible to read about all
      kinds of suffering coming upon humanity on earth. And when these pictures,
      which appear as Imaginations, are taken in this way one cannot help saying
      that a great deal of what they show is really present in our time - in its
      spiritual aspect, of course." End quote

      There is so much here to study! Nothing is simplistic, there are no mass
      designations - each case is individual even if lacking individuality! What
      wonders of Revelation Rudolf Steiner gave, and how much further each of us
      has to go in really understanding them. He goes on to speak of pictures in
      the Book of Revelation of wonderful gentleness....... Always the key to
      spiritual discerning.
      Jan
    • Ivan Gottel
      I am slightly shocked to see the products of your research coming; I haven t myself found such explicit statements as I have not read the complete works of RS.
      Message 2 of 2 , Nov 2, 2004
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        I am slightly shocked to see the products of your research coming; I haven't myself found such explicit statements as I have not read the complete works of RS.
        In this citation it goes about a very certain group of egoless peole whom I have called "the innocent".
        There are many nice and good people in this scheme; farmers, cowboys, South East Asians, good boys and girls; naturally these "definitions" don't mean any one belonging to a named group cannot be otherwise.
        I can hardly imagine anyone would put the Bush here, but I see him as a simple guy. And Bruce Willis too. They don't have bad intentions, they just don't know what they're doing.
        And you can go to Thailand, for example, maybe the most hospitable folk on earth.
        I never compared the egoless to the animals, that was done by others in this list. Animals are moved by very different principles.
        And of course for the sake of the un-willing-to-understand, I can sign that I love animals.
        The whole trick is in keeping the proper distance.
        You won't (usually) keep crocodiles at your home.
         
        And yes, this is a discreet subject; but is this not a spiritual group? Isn't anthroposophy itself a descreet topic?
        If you speak of Lucifer or Ahriman to someone who has not met the concepts, s-he might react even stronger than if you say there are people without ego.
        For the last statement is officially adopted (but in a different sense) - in science, e.g. psychology etc.
        It is quite normal to say someone has no ego - in everyday context.
        And regarding the reaction of the egoless themselves, they nowadays react to anything anyway, and not only they react but they initiate - wars, campaigns etc.
        What was a secret a few decades ago is a no-news today.
         
        Highest regards,
        Ivan

        Jan <starbirdgarden@...> wrote:
        Hello Val,
          First let me say how much I enjoy your contributions!  I loved your Yellow
        Brick Road post.

        Quote from where I left off yesterday. Again I say that lectures really need
        to be read in sequence and in full, but time presses!

        Lecture thirteen from The Book of Revelation and the Work of the Priest
        available from Rudolf Steiner Press.

        Quote - "So the question can arise, and indeed must arise as to how one
        should behave towards such people.
          This can be quite a difficult task, for such people often have deep
        feelings; they can have very deep feelings and yet one notices that there is
        no actual individuality in them.  Of course the fact that there is no
        individuality in them must be carefully concealed from them for otherwise
        they would go mad.  Despite having to conceal this from them one must ensure
        that such souls - for souls they are , even if not spirit - can make contact
        with other human beings and can develop in their wake, so that they can, as
        it were, tag along with the others.  Such human beings fairly accurately
        demonstrate the nature and being of man up to the twentieth year, for it is
        not until the twentieth year that the mind soul or intellectual soul is
        born, which is what provides the possibility for the 'I' to live on the
        earth.
          It is a great error to believe that one need not behave compassionately
        towards these 'I-less', individuality-less human beings on the grounds that
        as they have no individuality they will have no future incarnations.
        Someone who believed that would equally have to believe that one need not
        behave compassionately towards children.  In each case one has to discover
        what is present in such people.  In some cases it might be a posthumous
        soul, posthumous in comparison with souls who came into being at a
        particular stage of evolution and have repeatedly been incarnated as human
        beings.
          Others might be retarded souls who have come back from another planet to
        which the whole of humanity once went at a specific time.  This kind of
        soul, too, can enter such a human body.  In full awareness of this we must
        bring up such human beings like eternal children.
          All this is hidden in the Book of  Revelation. The pictures that appear
        are sometimes quite heart- rending and it is terrible to read about all
        kinds of suffering coming upon humanity on earth.  And when these pictures,
        which appear as Imaginations, are taken in this way one cannot help saying
        that a great deal of what they show is really present in our time - in its
        spiritual aspect, of course." End quote

          There is so much here to study!  Nothing is simplistic, there are no mass
        designations - each case is individual even if lacking individuality!  What
        wonders of Revelation Rudolf Steiner gave, and how much further each of us
        has to go in really understanding them. He goes on to speak of pictures in
        the Book of Revelation of wonderful gentleness....... Always the key to
        spiritual discerning.
        Jan



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