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R: [anthroposophy_tomorrow] Research for Ivan

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    The only place where RS talks about I-less people is inside Priest s Revelation . (Don t have at hend the page and the lecture at this moment) lectures
    Message 1 of 2 , Nov 1, 2004
      The only place where RS talks about "I-less" people is inside "Priest's Revelation". (Don't have at hend the page and the lecture at this moment)  lectures given  in September 1924 and it's a topic to be HANDLED WITH CARE (Nothing to do with someon mental  masturbation....)
      Many remarks are, here and there, about the "invasion" of elemantl agrimanic-luciferic.asuric being inside human soul-spirit-body,a very different issue.
      ----- Original Message -----

      I have been through the on-line library and my own library but I have not found any reference to humans without egos in the present day. I read all lectures on-line that contained the key words Ahriman, Asuras, Atlantis, Ego, I AM, China, Chinese, and retarded. I have not been through all the books yet but have reviewed Cosmic Memory, Occult Science and the Study of Man. I will keep researching because what I have found is interesting and may have meaning for you. In the meantime-perhaps you could conduct some research as well.

      Could you, the next time you feel the black hole around a person make note of the situation, the context, the physical reality of the situation he/she is in. What is the person saying, doing, seeing, or hearing when you feel this blackness? I have, as I have mentioned seen the black hole, and although I have a different explanation for it, I would like to compare notes with you regarding actual experience of this phenomena. Thanks-Val

      Steiner, agiin. In a lecture given to the workers he was asked about the same question that has giiven fire to Ivan s mindgame .he simply answered that if
      Message 2 of 2 , Nov 2, 2004
        Steiner, agiin.
         In a lecture given to the workers he was asked about the same question that has giiven fire to Ivan's mindgame .he simply answered that if x-people are  on earth at a due moment in time is enough that  y (who was not in the earth at this moment) and z (the same) will be back in anew life all together to create a change in earth'spopulation level.
        ----- Original Message -----
        /lecture before. But this is far more explicit than the one I found.
        I can only add that times have since developed (or deteriorated) - from the time this statement was made, some 4 billions of people (?) have been born, e.g. in Steiner's time he mentions 1 billion people that inhabit the earth..
        Also, the cast-down demon clans have had enough time to do some "research work" too. They had time to implant themselves deeper into the "humans", possess them, take over control as much as they could, help them building up a world-view of a demonic kind etc.
        So, they are not only among us, but inside many of "us".
        We better start seeing with our spirit - who is belonging to us, and who is not.
        And regarding half-truths we better take them away from "bad sources" and we better take the half of the truth from HItler and see there are classes of humans in broader sense of meaning - and not the races - that make them come into 3 categories: Those that build culture, those that maintain it, and those that destroy.
        Humans build culture, the innocent can only maintain it and the astral-fixed are destroying it constantly.
        One may proclaim "all humans are born equal" as stated in the declarations of UN and US. That is the same kind of half truth that Onkel Adolf has proclaimed: The other half of the racial theory.
        Both are lethal weapons of ethical mass destruction when taken - exclusively - without the other part.
        Moreover, the paranoid insistence on pure doctrinal lines of thought is producing a spiritual China-Wall. We may then say that "our way is the best and the only" as the modern american (read US) false prophets all insist, from AMWAY (sic!) to scientology.
        Someone pursuing her/his own genuine spiritual path should safeguard from such unscientific non-senses. Free thinking exactly means breaking out of boundaries, prejudices and confines of a system.
        It is sad when you inside a group that claims to be spiritual find hostile emotions towards other ways of thinking as systems or towards other religions. It is even sadder when you see that critic comes from a human who has no bad intentions at all but follows the group-mind trend of taking other creeds for lower then - Christianity.
        In this last case I am talking about the exrpessed loathing in one of recent mailings towards Shaivism, Shiva and Shivalinga. If the author had had a chance to gather any serious knowledge of the themes he is speaking about he hadn't talk like that. It is pretty funny once you know the Personalities behind the divine game - to say bad words about the One of the Highest Trinity while pretending to follow His Servant, namely Vishvakarman or popularily, Christ.
        But these are the direct consequences of doctrinal exclusivism and the play with glass pearls, e.g. exhange of thoughts that come not into action and remain futile and infertile inside the castle walls.
        That is also one of the reasons those that have knowledge need go out among the wolves, rather than to play social games inside a closed group. One learns not only from Angels, but from demons as well. What is vita contemplativa without vita activa?
        My respect,
        P.S.Besides, it is of the interest of the astral-fixed or egoless members of one group to keep negativity towards other groups or negativity of any sort. It is even greater fun for them, to "simply have fun" and entertain exchanges of thoughs that lead to no action and have no meaning. Because, while engaging in thought-plays the dangerous anthroposofhists are dissenged from fulfilling their mission.
        Jan <starbirdgarden@...> wrote:
        Speaking of population growth in lecture 13 of The Book of Revelation and
        the work of the Priest Steiner says

        "Well first of all the facts are not quite what they seem because the
        statistics are based on errors; statistical comparisons never refer to the
        earth as a whole but only to parts, and one forgets that at other times
        different parts of the earth were more densely populated than they are
        today.  So the details are not always quite correct, but taken as a whole it
        is correct to say that in our time certain supernumerary people are
        appearing who have no 'I' and are therefore not human beings in the full
        sense of the word.  This is a terrible truth.  They go about but are not
        incarnated 'I's; they take their place in physical heredity, receive an
        ether body and an astral body and in a sense become equipped inwardly with
        an ahrimanic consciousness.  They appear to be human if you do not look  too
        closely yet they are not human beings in the full sense of the word.  This
        is a terrible truth but it is a fact.  The apocalyptist is pointing directly
        at human beings themselves when he speaks about the age of the fifth
        trumpet.  Once again we can recognize the apocalyptist by the manner of his
        vision.  In their astral body such people appear just as the apocalyptist
        describes them: like etheric locusts with human faces.  It is definitely
        necessary for us to think in this way about such supersensible matters and
        for priests to know these things.  A priest is a shepherd of souls.  He must
        be able to find words for everything that goes on in such a soul.  These are
        not necessarily always evil souls; they may merely be souls that develop  as
        far as the soul realm but lack an 'I'.  One is sure to notice if one comes
        across such a person, and the priest must know about it for it will have a
        bearing on the quality of communion in his congregation.  Above all, people
        who have healthy souls suffer as a consequence of those who go about as
        human locusts.  So the question can arise, and indeed must arise, as to how
        one should behave towards such people." end quote

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