R: [anthroposophy_tomorrow] Tomberg's Intentions
----- Original Message -----
From: dottie zold >
Sent: Sunday, October 03, 2004 3:53 PM
Subject: Re: [anthroposophy_tomorrow] Tomberg's Intentions
> Andrea, what was the relationship between the Doctor
> and Mr. Tomberg?
Steiner never met Tomberg who had written twice to him,(1920-24) asking
the Doctor in the first letter to to be recieived into "his gropup of
pupils" and ,in the second one,to be admitted into the "School". There is
no trace in the archive of a reply from Steiner that, seemingly, should have
not given at all.
Very strange; RS was used to reply to everyone in an actual need of help or
advice, doesn't it?
Do we have any hints of their
> particular relationship?
Well Tomberg seemed till the days of his "conversion" to think himself like
a favourite disciple , also "from Beyond the Treshold".
In my opinion he had no special relationship at all with the Doctor, Anyway
he wrote some good anthro-thing till the 1935-38 and , after his closesness
to Catholicism he went to "pasture elsewhere".
> What are the comments that are deemed harsh from Mr.
> Tomberg towards the Doctor or were they towards what
> had happened to the Doctors initiative after his
In 1967 VT he wrote about it on "Lazarus komen herren"- pag.77(Basel 197
edition- in which he twisted Steiner's insights till the claim that
Spiritual Science has no "life" inside her having the form of a "science".
This remark is more and more heavy if you think that he also wrote -lying-
that RS was aware of such a "failure" inside Anthropos-Sophia! and he was
"waiting for someone" namely a Bodhisattva (of the "life"?.
So, many "Tomberghians" (see also Stephen Hale on AT) are ready to identify
the Bodjisattva with VT himself!
Moreover the above misunderstanding seems to be also the starting point
in order to look for the "life" outside Spiritual Science namely into both
Jesuitsim and Hermeticism as written especially inside the "Tarot's" work
and most of all to claim about the "failure" of Cosciousness Soul's
experience and the necessity to look at the Pope as the true Orienteer in
modern Spiritual Experience.
(A good review is iside SOP's book)..
> When I am a little pickled on this subject it is
> because at times when in Anthro circles I hear people
> judging other Anthros because they like Tomberg. Even
> here in Los Angeles. I guess thats when it really hit
> home. And the people talking bad about the Tomberg
> likers didn't seem like very likeable nor open people.
> And this point made me ponder the validity and
> personal all tied up in the opinions.
This is the sad side of the story: one-sidedness at 100%
> I was hit by a car today while walking from my coffee
> shop to pick up a book I had left in the car. It was a
> pretty horendous experience but I am okay. And it
> makes me sad. But I am glad to be here to open your
> mail today. It's interesting to me how many people in
> the hosptial caring positions are so cold and blocked
> by what is happening to people who have had such a
> terrible experience. Anyhow, thanks for the post
My best wishes
> > Tomberg's Intentions.
> > If we want to think about Tomberg's story in a
> > positive way we can say the following.
> > For those born catholic it has often occurred to
> > think " From a Spiritual Scientific standpoint
> > what's necessary for Catholic weltanschauung in
> > order to gain a true link with Christian Esoteric
> > insights as they are presented by Steiiner?"
> > Comparing Anthroposophic and Catholic cosmo-
> > conception we could find that if we were able to
> > rejuvenate Catholicism by the means of the
> > "injection" of some Spiritual scientific insights
> > about for instance the Reincarnation's Law -as
> > depicted in Anthro-works- the pre-birth and
> > after.death life , the Man as built up in
> > Spirit-Soul-Body , things should begin to work in a
> > fruitful direction.
> > This could have also been Tomberg's intention when
> > he decided to get close to Catholicism but , if in
> > case, such good-rooted intentions met ,as it were, a
> > second giant hindrance.
> > The hindrance on a possible path of linking
> > Esotericism and Exotericism in the Christian world
> > was the powerful, Pyramidal, Third-Epoch-like
> > structured Catholic Government in those years when
> > Pio XII ruled as a Roman Emperor, with Jesuits as
> > his right arm.
> > So while Tomberg ended his path falling into some
> > harsh criticism against Steiner's work and into a
> > crucial misunderstanding of some basic
> > Anthroposophical issue his attempts seemed to end
> > in a vacuum. (1945-63)
> > After 1963 there was also an attempt of change
> > something inside the Roman Empire-like structure of
> > the Vatican, namely the experience of Second
> > Vatican Council carried on by Pope John XXIII, who,
> > in his younger years , has been working hard, in
> > the turmoil of Shoah, to save many Jews from the
> > gassing.
> > Such an attempt , to day, is at least
> > slowed if not stopped by the very puzzling
> > personality of Karol Wojtyla who, in spite of his
> > open viewed readings and interests gave a strongest
> > impulse to a rebirth of Centralism inside Catholic
> > Church strongly sided by the "modern" jesuitic
> > stream called "Opus Dei".
> > These guys' deeds are sometimes actually
> > "dressed of darkness" , if we think about the story
> > of the death of the banker Roberto Calvi a fifteen
> > years ago.
> > Such a story , in a deeply shocking way, based on a
> > path between Masonry and Opus Dei , via the armed
> > hand arm of Mafia's killers and Intelligence, is
> > able to remind to us what Steiner told Polzer Hoditz
> > about "occult agreements" between Brotheroods and
> > Loyola's followers.
> > Surely, also to the best positive glance ,a
> > Catholic Church close to people like those seems
> > very , very hard to be Spiritually renovated. .
> > Andrea
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> In 1967 VT he wrote about it on "Lazarus komen herren"- pag.77(Basel 197
> edition- in which he twisted Steiner's insights till the claimthat
> Spiritual Science has no "life" inside her having the form ofa "science".
Andrea, do you think he could have meant that spiritual science was
becoming too intellectualized and that the 'spirit' or love or heart
of Spiritual Science was being left by the way side by this strong
loveless intellect? I ask as you seem to have read more on him than I
and I am wondering what you think?
> This remark is more and more heavy if you think that he alsowrote -lying-
> that RS was aware of such a "failure" inside Anthropos-Sophia!Andrea, I have to say that the Doctor, and I am sure for some good
reason, has really left it up to his followers to develope the Sophia
theme to its fullest extent. I do not find that the Doctor dealt with
Her as explicitely as he has with the masculine aspects of the work.
It may sound harsh to the Doctors students but I wonder if you have
thought of it from another perspective such as mine. I have felt
guided by the Doctors work to Magdalene hence Sophia. But look how
long it has taken me and how convoluted it is. So much so that more
than half of his students if not more are still not on the Being
Sophias doorsteps. Their still wondering if Brabant-Schmidt or Sergio
Prokofieff are the real things or not. Yet I can tell you that I have
been led to the same works as these learned men. And The Fifth Gospel
was the start of it for me.
So, is there anyway to look and see what he was talking about versus
it being an insult to the Doctor? But then again I have not read the
context and you have so maybe he was being more meanspirited. I guess
I will have to read up although I am not sure why I am supposed to.
Unless maybe it is to bring a bridge connection to what has been
percieved and possibly through a dark glass.
and he was
> "waiting for someone" namely a Bodhisattva (of the "life"?.I wonder if he was speaking of Magdalene in this Bodhisattva? Mostly
I wonder this because she is in the lodge supposedly and she is the
earthly representative of Sophia. Maybe he wasn't fully aware of it
and that is where the 'waiting' comes from.
> So, many "Tomberghians" (see also Stephen Hale on AT) are ready toidentify
> the Bodjisattva with VT himself!Well, he may have been on the Bodhisattvas path but so am I:) But I
believe the Bodisattva he was looking for has to do with the Sophia
and I am getting a stronger sense that this is why he entered into
the Catholic Church: he could not find her in Anthroposophy. But She
is there but the students are just now finding this out on a larger
scale. And in regards to his Tarot cards it makes absolute sense as
those cards are truly the Feminine Divine cards. Well at least in my
opinion and from what I can gather of what little I have read.
Everyone seems so worried about not 'seeing' Her before their
supposed to as its for the next epoch. But She is here and I imagine
he felt Her presence coming up through the church and the hidden
teachings. I mean Magdalene is in these teachings and even though it
is not clear to the non-discerning eye she is front and center. Even
Father Justino has found her through Mr. Browns work.
All my best,
- Andrea, I want to say I think my interpretations of Tombergs
intentions are correct. I can find that only this way makes sense for
some reason. What do you think? Is this too simplified of an
explanation that you do not wish to share more of what Mr. Tomberg
has said that seems like and affront to the Doctor? For I would like
to flesh this out so we can get past Tomberg as the adversary. Not
that you personally have said so but there is a strong division that
has been created within AP and I think it deserves to be thought
through in a clear headed manner. For it seems that what has been
thought of as insults truly are not, they were just not taken well by
the students and Maria very well at the time. But they were not meant
as an insult rather as what was really happening within him and what
he truly wanted to share and he actually felt was his mission to
share with Anthroposophy. But he was turned down in no uncertain
terms. And maybe it was for the best and maybe not. But She is coming
through and I believe he has been a faithfull guide to the Doctors
initiative of bringing awareness of the Being Anthroposophia and Her
mission here on Earth.