Loading ...
Sorry, an error occurred while loading the content.

R: [anthroposophy_tomorrow] Re: quid pro quo

Expand Messages
  • VALENTINA BRUNETTI
    ... Which one, pls ? Andrea VT is the reincarnation of FN,
    Message 1 of 6 , Sep 30, 2004
    • 0 Attachment
      ----- Original Message -----

      > > quid pro quo: One thing for another; an equivalent. Yo Stephen, my
      > > man, cough it up. What does this cryptic issue connected to
      > > Nietzsche mean. Was Tomberg his third cousin on his father's side?
      >
      > According to at least one source,



      Which one, pls ?

      Andrea



      VT is the reincarnation of FN,
      > being born on 2/27/1900, several months before the venerated one
      > left the physical plane. Now, the reason for this is wholy possible
      > when we consider what RS said in the KR about FN's former
      > incarnation in the 15th century as a Franciscan monk who practiced
      > certain venerated methods of ascetisism designed to lift the astral
      > body out of the physical in order to experience extended periods
      > of 'higher mind'. This practice was called "self mortification",
      > wherein the practitioner would basically despise his physical body
      > by abusing it with painful restrictions and other denials. As a
      > result, it had the consequent effect of allowing one to live more in
      > their astral body. And this monk was able to achieve this, as well
      > as aiding Saint Therese of Avila in forming her order of the
      > Carmelite nuns. And, this practice would come in handy at a
      > critical point in the life of this monk as FN.
      >
      > Valentin Tomberg would begin to study anthroposophy at the age of
      > 24, and for seven years engaged in an extraordinary practice of
      > intensified thinking relative to the subject matter. Then, at the
      > age of 31 years, in July of 1931, he became the holder of the Office
      > of the Bodhisattva, whereupon he wrote two great works of
      > anthroposophical interpretation of both the OT and the NT.
      > Unfortunately, several rebuffs from Marie Steiner in the form of
      > letters questioning his ability and authenticity because he had not
      > undergone "first class training", even though he was president of
      > the Dutch section, caused him to finally depart the realm of the
      > G.A.S. in 1939, at the outbreak of WWII.
      >
      > In 1945, he entered the Catholic church order in order to attempt to
      > bring a more hermetically-oriented christianity to the forefront,
      > aided by the ever-present spirit of Ignatius Loyola, founder of the
      > Jesuit order.
      >
      > In the final analysis, it is a matter of true speculation on whether
      > Valentin Tomberg would have achieved what anthroposophy seems to
      > need today if Ms Steiner had accorded him the seeming respect and
      > recognition that he deserved. But, then again, it only seems
      > logical for Carl Unger to have succeeded Steiner rather than Steffen.
      >
      > Steve
      >
      > >
      > > Stephen Hale wrote:
      > >
      > > "When Rudolf Steiner saw into those dark staring eyes in 1895, he
      > saw
      > > something that he could only elaborate on much later; in 1924. It
      > > is a story that has hardly been told, although some seem to think
      > > they know it. And what I mean concerns Tomberg.
      > >
      > > Steve
      > >
      > > Bradford wrote;
      > >
      > > "...we still don't have enough
      > > thinking fuel in the gradually depleted and watered down vitality
      > of
      > > our Anthro community, compared to the vibrant first blush of
      > > research strength that came from those like Bock, Hiebbel and
      > > Valentin Tomberg.
      > >
      > > I don't thrust the argument of Valentin Tomberg in anyone's face,
      > > but I can tell you that Tomberg really worked deeply with Steiner
      > > indications and the inner life. Later Tomberg buried himself in the
      > > Catholic Church of all places. He stole Steiner's deep Theosophy
      > > insights, that were connected to the early Pauline Church and then,
      > > with mystery and poverty following him, Tomberg buried his Michael
      > > Soul in the hypocrisy of the Catholic church. So in the word
      > > THEOSOPHY the entire riddle of Valentin Tomberg stands out. One we
      > > cannot solve with only one life time perspective."
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      > Yahoo! Groups Links
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
    • VALENTINA BRUNETTI
      ... Andrea asks: Have you any reference about it ? whereupon he wrote two great works of ... Further questions: What about his relationships with ZF Van
      Message 2 of 6 , Sep 30, 2004
      • 0 Attachment
        ----- Original Message -----
        From: Stephen Hale @h...> wrote:
        > their astral body. And this monk was able to achieve this, as well
        > as aiding Saint Therese of Avila in forming her order of the
        > Carmelite nuns. And, this practice would come in handy at a
        > critical point in the life of this monk as FN.
        >
        > Valentin Tomberg would begin to study anthroposophy at the age of
        > 24, and for seven years engaged in an extraordinary practice of
        > intensified thinking relative to the subject matter. Then, at the
        > age of 31 years, in July of 1931, he became the holder of the Office
        > of the Bodhisattva,

        Andrea asks:


        Have you any reference about it ?


        whereupon he wrote two great works of
        > anthroposophical interpretation of both the OT and the NT.
        > Unfortunately, several rebuffs from Marie Steiner in the form of
        > letters questioning his ability and authenticity because he had not
        > undergone "first class training", even though he was president of
        > the Dutch section, caused him to finally depart the realm of the
        > G.A.S. in 1939, at the outbreak of WWII

        Further questions:


        What about his relationships with ZF Van Emmichoven ?
        What about Tomberg's statementa about various "reincarnations"
        What do you think about Prokofieff's overwiew of VT's life ?


        .
        >
        > In 1945, he entered the Catholic church order in order to attempt to
        > bring a more hermetically-oriented christianity to the forefront,
        > aided by the ever-present spirit of Ignatius Loyola, founder of the
        > Jesuit order

        Again:

        What about his critioal remarks about Steiner's work, who as stated in
        "Lazarus" has no "magic" and no "life" inside it ? .
        What about the "failure" of "Consciousness Soul" ?

        Andrea

        > In the final analysis, it is a matter of true speculation on whether
        > Valentin Tomberg would have achieved what anthroposophy seems to
        > need today if Ms Steiner had accorded him the seeming respect and
        > recognition that he deserved. But, then again, it only seems
        > logical for Carl Unger to have succeeded Steiner rather than Steffen.
        >
        > Steve
        >
        > >
        > > Stephen Hale wrote:
        > >
        > > "When Rudolf Steiner saw into those dark staring eyes in 1895, he
        > saw
        > > something that he could only elaborate on much later; in 1924. It
        > > is a story that has hardly been told, although some seem to think
        > > they know it. And what I mean concerns Tomberg.
        > >
        > > Steve
        > >
        > > Bradford wrote;
        > >
        > > "...we still don't have enough
        > > thinking fuel in the gradually depleted and watered down vitality
        > of
        > > our Anthro community, compared to the vibrant first blush of
        > > research strength that came from those like Bock, Hiebbel and
        > > Valentin Tomberg.
        > >
        > > I don't thrust the argument of Valentin Tomberg in anyone's face,
        > > but I can tell you that Tomberg really worked deeply with Steiner
        > > indications and the inner life. Later Tomberg buried himself in the
        > > Catholic Church of all places. He stole Steiner's deep Theosophy
        > > insights, that were connected to the early Pauline Church and then,
        > > with mystery and poverty following him, Tomberg buried his Michael
        > > Soul in the hypocrisy of the Catholic church. So in the word
        > > THEOSOPHY the entire riddle of Valentin Tomberg stands out. One we
        > > cannot solve with only one life time perspective."
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        > Yahoo! Groups Links
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
      • VALENTINA BRUNETTI
        ... Militarism, Jesus Christ the ... incorporated ... Adolph Hitler said of his right-arm true Heinrich Mr.Himmler He is our Loyola Andrea Ignatius Loyola
        Message 3 of 6 , Sep 30, 2004
        • 0 Attachment
          ----- Original Message ----- > No wonder Tomberg became controversial.
          Militarism, Jesus Christ the
          > Generalissimo and all that, becoming deeply involved in the infamous
          > Inquisition - a vision RS attributed to Ahriman to the best of my
          > recollection. No wonder the Nazis and the Scientologists alike
          incorporated
          > key elements from the Jesuit system.



          Adolph Hitler said of his right-arm "true Heinrich" Mr.Himmler "He is our
          Loyola"

          Andrea


          Ignatius Loyola himself, however,
          > lived later in the personality of the Swedish seer Emmannuel Swedenborg,
          > Yahoo! Groups Links
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
        • dottie zold
          Tarjei: No wonder Tomberg ... It s funny when I see things like this from spiritual science students specifically the Doctors I can understand why they have
          Message 4 of 6 , Sep 30, 2004
          • 0 Attachment
            Tarjei:
            No wonder Tomberg
            > became controversial.
            > Militarism, Jesus Christ the
            > > Generalissimo and all that, becoming deeply
            > involved in the infamous
            > > Inquisition - a vision RS attributed to Ahriman to
            > the best of my
            > > recollection. No wonder the Nazis and the
            > Scientologists alike
            > incorporated
            > > key elements from the Jesuit system.

            Andrea:
            > Adolph Hitler said of his right-arm "true Heinrich"
            > Mr.Himmler "He is our
            > Loyola"

            It's funny when I see things like this from spiritual
            science students specifically the Doctors I can
            understand why they have such a fight with Mr.
            Staudenmaier and the nazi charge against the Doctor.
            The universe comes back and bites one in the ass.

            Dottie





            _______________________________
            Do you Yahoo!?
            Declare Yourself - Register online to vote today!
            http://vote.yahoo.com
          • dottie zold
            Andrea: What about Tomberg s statementa about various ... Andrea can you tell me what book I might find Prokofieffs overview on Mr. Tomberg? Thanks, Dottie
            Message 5 of 6 , Sep 30, 2004
            • 0 Attachment
              Andrea:
              What about Tomberg's statementa about various
              > "reincarnations"
              > What do you think about Prokofieff's overwiew of
              > VT's life ?

              Andrea can you tell me what book I might find
              Prokofieffs overview on Mr. Tomberg?

              Thanks,
              Dottie



              __________________________________
              Do you Yahoo!?
              Yahoo! Mail Address AutoComplete - You start. We finish.
              http://promotions.yahoo.com/new_mail
            • VALENTINA BRUNETTI
              ... Andrea answers. Tks for you kind reply. I have to disagree with you about this matter. (Bodishattva identities) . Steiner himself told to be not Him.
              Message 6 of 6 , Oct 2, 2004
              • 0 Attachment
                ----- Original Message -----

                >
                > >
                > > Which one, pls ?
                > >
                > > Andrea
                >
                > Andrea, I had a very enlightening almost one year discussion
                > concerning this subject via private e-mail four years ago. The
                > other party is a Swedish sophiaist with an in-depth understanding of
                > this Nietzsche-Tomberg connection, as well as knowing Prokofieff
                > during the time leading up to Prokofieff's split from the Jarne
                > region. Our main point of disagreement concerned his thesis that
                > Nietzsche was meant to be the Bodhisattva of the 19th century, but
                > this failed due to certain failed conditions in the Nietzsche model;
                > of course, his inability to grasp the Christ Impulse would be the
                > main factor. I, on the other hand, believed then as now that Rudolf
                > Steiner was the Bodhisattva of the 19th century as clearly
                > demonstrated by his profound teaching of the Christ Impulse, which
                > has predicted every incarnation of the bodhisattva since Siddharta
                > Gautama rose to become the Sixth Buddha after 42 bodhi incarnations.
                >
                > This ultimately became a bone of contention and we split ways. One
                > of the views he expressed was that V.S. Solovyov's astral body was
                > the one used for the Tomberg incarnation, being a perfect copy
                > available for such needs. Many more issues came forward during this
                > discussion, and then I spent a couple more years researching that
                > part that is truly significant to me, which involves the influence
                > that Bernhard Forster had on Elizabeth Nietzsche, and the conspiracy
                > they conducted to take control of Friedrich's will and power for the
                > glory of Germany and the rise of the Modern Zarathustra.
                >
                > Steve
                > >
                > >
                Andrea answers.
                Tks for you kind reply.
                I have to disagree with you about this matter. (Bodishattva identities)
                . Steiner himself told to be not Him. (See also T.Meyer's work about the
                riddle)
                Tomberg in my opinion (I see him , If you have tried to read what I wrote
                about it) was a kind of "fallen Initiate" , nothing to do with such a giant
                Spiritual task.
                What about Beinsa Duenov ?

                A.


                > >
                > > VT is the reincarnation of FN,
                > > > being born on 2/27/1900, several months before the venerated one
                > > > left the physical plane. Now, the reason for this is wholy
                > possible
                > > > when we consider what RS said in the KR about FN's former
                > > > incarnation in the 15th century as a Franciscan monk who
                > practiced
                > > > certain venerated methods of ascetisism designed to lift the
                > astral
                > > > body out of the physical in order to experience extended periods
                > > > of 'higher mind'. This practice was called "self
                > mortification",
                > > > wherein the practitioner would basically despise his physical
                > body
                > > > by abusing it with painful restrictions and other denials. As a
                > > > result, it had the consequent effect of allowing one to live
                > more in
                > > > their astral body. And this monk was able to achieve this, as
                > well
                > > > as aiding Saint Therese of Avila in forming her order of the
                > > > Carmelite nuns. And, this practice would come in handy at a
                > > > critical point in the life of this monk as FN.
                > > >
                > > > Valentin Tomberg would begin to study anthroposophy at the age
                > of
                > > > 24, and for seven years engaged in an extraordinary practice of
                > > > intensified thinking relative to the subject matter. Then, at
                > the
                > > > age of 31 years, in July of 1931, he became the holder of the
                > Office
                > > > of the Bodhisattva, whereupon he wrote two great works of
                > > > anthroposophical interpretation of both the OT and the NT.
                > > > Unfortunately, several rebuffs from Marie Steiner in the form of
                > > > letters questioning his ability and authenticity because he had
                > not
                > > > undergone "first class training", even though he was president
                > of
                > > > the Dutch section, caused him to finally depart the realm of the
                > > > G.A.S. in 1939, at the outbreak of WWII.
                > > >
                > > > In 1945, he entered the Catholic church order in order to
                > attempt to
                > > > bring a more hermetically-oriented christianity to the
                > forefront,
                > > > aided by the ever-present spirit of Ignatius Loyola, founder of
                > the
                > > > Jesuit order.
                > > >
                > > > In the final analysis, it is a matter of true speculation on
                > whether
                > > > Valentin Tomberg would have achieved what anthroposophy seems to
                > > > need today if Ms Steiner had accorded him the seeming respect
                > and
                > > > recognition that he deserved. But, then again, it only seems
                > > > logical for Carl Unger to have succeeded Steiner rather than
                > Steffen.
                > > >
                > > > Steve
                > > >
                > > > >
                > > > > Stephen Hale wrote:
                > > > >
                > > > > "When Rudolf Steiner saw into those dark staring eyes in 1895,
                > he
                > > > saw
                > > > > something that he could only elaborate on much later; in 1924.
                > It
                > > > > is a story that has hardly been told, although some seem to
                > think
                > > > > they know it. And what I mean concerns Tomberg.
                > > > >
                > > > > Steve
                > > > >
                > > > > Bradford wrote;
                > > > >
                > > > > "...we still don't have enough
                > > > > thinking fuel in the gradually depleted and watered down
                > vitality
                > > > of
                > > > > our Anthro community, compared to the vibrant first blush of
                > > > > research strength that came from those like Bock, Hiebbel and
                > > > > Valentin Tomberg.
                > > > >
                > > > > I don't thrust the argument of Valentin Tomberg in anyone's
                > face,
                > > > > but I can tell you that Tomberg really worked deeply with
                > Steiner
                > > > > indications and the inner life. Later Tomberg buried himself
                > in the
                > > > > Catholic Church of all places. He stole Steiner's deep
                > Theosophy
                > > > > insights, that were connected to the early Pauline Church and
                > then,
                > > > > with mystery and poverty following him, Tomberg buried his
                > Michael
                > > > > Soul in the hypocrisy of the Catholic church. So in the word
                > > > > THEOSOPHY the entire riddle of Valentin Tomberg stands out.
                > One we
                > > > > cannot solve with only one life time perspective."
                > > >
                > > >
                > > >
                > > >
                > > >
                > > > Yahoo! Groups Links
                > > >
                > > >
                > > >
                > > >
                > > >
                >
                >
                >
                >
                >
                > Yahoo! Groups Links
                >
                >
                >
                >
                >
                >
                >
              Your message has been successfully submitted and would be delivered to recipients shortly.