- Here is a post of mine to Anthropos-Science Wed, 25 Nov 1998.
It was my response to a query about Max Heindel. (Incidentally,
this was one of the threads that caused the topical puritans to
scream bloody murder because it wasn't _science_ , forcing
those who wanted a less narrow group to start Anthropos-Views.
So let me know what you think about this - I have to post on the
web btw so I hope the formatting doesn't get all messed up:
Max Heindel was an unscrupulous fraud and a clever puppet for
Ahriman's endeavors to destroy Rudolf Steiner's work. He took a
bunch of unpublished material from Rudolf Steiner, brought it to
Oceanside in California, and claimed that he was an initiate and
that the knowledge and wisdom was the fruit of his own
endeavors and revelations. And then he proceeded to badmouth
Rudolf Steiner's theosophy as bigoted and inferior.
"The Rosicrucian Cosmo-Conception" is plagiarized
anthroposophy, with some very interesting twists: Ahriman is
nowhere mentioned, only Lucifer. And the book is reeking with
virulent anti-semitism, hatred against Jews. Just read it, it's all
Rudolf Steiner did mention Max Heindel once, though he did not
call him by name. It was in a lecture about the Fifth Gospel that
he held in Christiania (now Oslo) 6th October 1913. Pay careful
attention to the following quote from this lecture:
"We have quite enough enemies already and the way they act is
really very curious. I do not propose to enlarge upon this, for you
probably know about it from the News Sheets. You are certainly
aware of another strange fact. There are people who have been
saying for a long time that the teaching I give is tainted by every
kind of bigoted Christian dogma, even by Jesuitism. This
malicious allegation is made chiefly by certain devotees of
"Adyar Theosophy," as it is called, and they talk sheer,
unscrupulous nonsense. But our teachings have also been
immesurably falsified from a quarter which had violently attacked
the intolerance, the distortions and the allegations. A man from
America, who spent weeks and months getting to know our
teachings, transcribed and carried them off in a watered-down
form to America, where he has given out a plagiarized
"Rosicrucian Theosophy." True, he says he learnt a good deal
from us over here, but that he was afterwards summoned to the
Masters and learnt more from them. He says nothing, however,
about having learnt from us the deeper things which he had
drawn from the then unpublished lecture-courses. When
something like this happens in America, one may of course
emulate the aged Hillel and be lenient; nor need one stop being
lenient when these things make their way across to Europe. In a
quarter from which the most violent attacks on us were
launched, a translation was made of what these circles in
America had taken from us, and in an introduction to this
translation it was said: True, a Rosicrucian conception of the
world is making its appearance in Europe, too, but in a bigoted,
Jesuital form; this kind of thinking can thrive only in the pure air of
California. Well... here I will pause! Such are the methods of our
opponents. We may regard these things with leniency and even
with compassion, but we should not shut our eyes to them.
When things like this happen, even those who for years have
been remarkably forbearing with people who acted so
unscrupulously, must be wary. Perhaps one day everyone will
have their eyes opened. If the servcice of truth did not demand it,
I should much prefer not to speak about these matters, but they
must be faced fairly and squarely."
For this reason, I would like anthroposophists and other
admirerers of Rudolf Steiner's works who peddle Max Heindel's
books as part of anthroposophy to be made aware of this matter,
of this quote. Sure, I've had "The Rosicrucian Conception" on my
shelf since 1972, but I keep it next to my collection of
Nazi-propaganda against anthrosophy. If anyone believes that
reading Heindel will enhance their understanding of
anthropopophy and of Christ, they won't get much out of it. But if
they read it to deepen their understanding of the Opposing
Forces that eventually led to the arsoning of the Goetheanum
and then to the Holocaust, it may be very educational.
In the fall of 1907 during a most successful period in Minnesota,
there came to Mr. Heindel a friend who had for months been
begging him to go to Berlin to meet a man whom she claimed to
be a most wonderful lecturer and teacher. Failing by
correspondence to induce him to leave his work in America, she
had come to Minnesota for the express purpose of personally
urging him to go. She was successful at last in persuading him
to make the trip.
After reaching Germany he attended lectures and had several
interviews with this teacher. But in a short time he found that this
man had little to give him, and that what he gave out was not new
to him. In disappointment he was ready to go back to America.
As he sat in his room in great dejection, feeling that he had given
up a big work in America to take this trip, a being, who he later
learned was an Elder Brother of the Rosicrucian Order and who
afterward became his Teacher, appeared, clothed in his vital
body, and offered to help him on certain occult points. The
information which the Teacher gave him was concise and logical
and beyond anything Mr. Heindel was capable of writing. On a
later visit the Teacher offered to impart to him the teachings
which he desired, provided that he keep them secret. Max
Heindel had for several years searched and prayed that he might
find something wherewith to appease the soul hunger of the
world. Having suffered and known the longings of his own heart,
he could not give the promise to the Elder Brother, and refused
to accept anything that he could not be permitted to pass on to
his soul-hungry brothers. The Teacher left him.
Can you imagine the feeling that would naturally come over a
starving man who had been denied food for some time to have
some one offer him a piece of bread but before he could taste of
it to have it snatched away? The last condition would be more
wretched than the first. So it was with Max Heindel. About a
month later, however, the Teacher appeared in his room again
and told him that he, Max Heindel, has stood his test. He stated
that if he had accepted the offer, namely, to keep the teachings a
secret from the world, he, the Elder Brother, would not have
returned. He was told of the candidate whom they had at first
chosen, who had failed to pass his test in 1905; also that he,
Max Heindel, had been under the observation of the Elder
Brothers for a number of years as the most fit candidate should
the first one fail. In addition he was told that the teachings must
be given out to the public before the close of the first decade of
the century, which would be the end of December, 1909.
Tarjei's comment (edited):
The above, which was penned by Mrs. Heindel, confirms my
I do believe that my judgement in this matter is objective from an
anthroposophical point of view, but when I keep sticking to an
opinion I have held for so many years, there may be a certain
justification in accusing me of stubbornness. It is a judgement
arising primarily from the life of feeling.
Let us assume that Heindel was a truly devout soul, soon to
experience a Christian initiation, with a genuine longing for a
deeper intimacy with Christ. And Rudolf Steiner had little to give
him, and most certainly nothing that was new to him.
What has always stuck me so remarkable about Steiner is the
fiery love, the Christ-love of all creatures, behind his words, even
the dryest, and his often kind words about even about his
bitterest enemies. This makes one very sensitive to his remarks
about "opponents." It is my deepest conviction that when a
spontaneous, mutual enthusiastic warmth did not result from the
meeting of Steiner and Heindel, the latter was lacking something
important in his soul. Because if he had nothing to learn from
Steiner - and he almost suggests that the Doctor offered him
stones when he hungered for bread - then he did not, in my
opinion, know the Christ. This is, perhaps a very serious charge,
but the point is that I have always had a distrust of Heindel
because I sense in him an Ahrimanized anthroposophy.
Jean-Marc's response to Tarjei's comment:
Tarjei, I thought you (and others as well perhaps) might like to
ponder on what Rudolf Steiner once said:
"...is Antichrist, whose resemblance to Christ may well be so
striking - that it's hard to tell them apart."
The full sentence goes:
"Der Führer derjenigen Geister, die in dieser Weise sechs
Prinzipien entwickelt haben, die also auf dem Monde bis dicht an
die Vollendung herangekommen sind, ist der Antichrist, der dem
Christus schon zum Verwechseln ähnlich sehen kann."
This assertion comes from a lecture in Stuttgart, 28 Nov 1911 (at
the end of GA 130: Das esoterische Christentum und...)
I think these few words shed much light on MANY A "RIDDLE" of
And Uncle Taz saith:
Hey Jean-Marc - join us here at the AT!
> And Uncle Taz saith:As you all see, I decided to make a very special exception to the
> Hey Jean-Marc - join us here at the AT!
rule of posting only my own texts from this six year old A-S
thread. IJean-Marc Nguyen always backed me up a hundred
percent when I became polemical or controversial, facing a lot of
Jean-Marc has disappeared from the face of the earth - at least
what the internet and online directories are concerned.
I've been missing Jean-Marc and his very valuable contributions
on the internet. If there are any French subscribers here, please
try to locate him and invite him. He's been impossible to find;
disappeared! Perhaps mentioning and quoting him here will get
him out of the woodworks someday when it hits the search
Anyway, Jean-Marc backed me up beautifully on this Max Heindel
I once used to receive monographs from AMORC, San José. Would there be someone who could offer an opinion on Spenser Lewis' and/or his son Ralph's version of "Rosicrucianism"? Is it just a parody of Ancient Egyptian and Mosaic doctrines?
Max Heindel was an unscrupulous fraud and a clever puppet for Ahriman's endeavors to destroy Rudolf Steiner's work. He took a bunch of unpublished material from Rudolf Steiner, brought it to Oceanside in California, and claimed that he was an initiate and that the knowledge and wisdom was the fruit of his own endeavors and revelations. And then he proceeded to badmouth Rudolf Steiner's theosophy as bigoted and inferior.
- --- In firstname.lastname@example.org, Goffredo
> I once used to receive monographs from AMORC, San José. Wouldthere be
> someone who could offer an opinion on Spenser Lewis' and/or hisson
> Ralph's version of "Rosicrucianism"? Is it just a parody ofAncient
> Egyptian and Mosaic doctrines?AMORC is a different story altogether. I was a member of the
organization myself thirty-some years ago when I lived in England.
They sent me their stuff from San Jose, candles and lessons and all
They openly practiced a certain form of black magic. At the back of
every magazine, there was a sketch of a world leader, and all the
members of AMORC werre soppose to make a suggestion to this person
through the subconscious, while the person was sleeping, so he or
she would wake up not knowing that the notion was coming from
outside like that.
When I recognized the implications of this according to Rudolf
Steiner, I also became suspicious about the couses of my headaches
and discomfort. They gave me a certain hour to sit in front of a
mirror with incence and candles, and they had me send them a photo
Enough said. For the most part, the AMORC people seeem to be
dillettantes dabbling in the occult with an air of secrecy and
mysticism, expressed through boring diagrams:
"You can still find a job,
go out and talk to a friend.
On the back of every magazine
there are those coupons you can send.
Why don't you join the Rosicrucians,
they can give you back your hope,
you can find your love with diagrams
on a plain brown envelope.
But you've used up all your coupons
except the one that seems
to be written on your wrist
along with several thousand dreams."
- Leonard Cohen: "Dress Rehearsal Rag"
To their credit, however, it was the AMORC people who tipped me off
about Max Heindel's fraud, long before I discovered Steiner's
reference to him. My certainty of MH being a fake and a wolf in
sheep's clothing was fortified through testimony from mutually
It's interesting to notice, btw, that prior to being commissioned by
Steiner's opponents to travel to Berlin and steal Steiner's
teachings, Heindel was hospitalized with heart problems after the
San Fransisco earthquake in 1906. I believe that if we dig deeper
into the mystery of Mephistopheles and Earthquakes, we'll find this
course of events very interesting indeed.
- At 00:38 24.08.2004, Stephen Hale wrote:
>And Heindel suffered with a diseased heart for the rest of his life, whichHe was obviously true to his path by refusing to utter the Doctor's name
>ended in early 1919. Carl Gustav von Grasshof, I believe was his real
>name. Interestingly, I also took the excerpt you posted from "The Fifth
>Gospel" concerning the unnamed figure who Steiner remembers following him
>and his entourage in 1907, feverishly taking notes during his "Theosophy
>of the Rosicrucian" lectures, and I posted it to the then Director of
>Educational Services of the Rosicrucian Fellowship, which still resides at
>Oceanside. Well, this guy, whose name I have forgotten since it was at
>least four years ago, scrupulously or otherwise refused to even mention
>Steiner's name in any context whatsoever relative to these matters. He
>simply said something like: "We all bear a slice of the truth, and nobody
>has all the truth. The goal is to take the slices of the truth-pie and
>make the whole pie that will only then give the answers concerning the
>real truth. And this will take time."
just like Heindel himself. It reminds me of Aleister Crowley who commanded
his girlfriend to punish herself, stab herself with a knife or something,
every time she uttered what she should NEVER utter, namely the word "I".
Later on, he bragged about having made her a totally soulless human being.
>I don't know if you have looked into the work of Alice Bailey at all, butMy mother left me just about all of Bailey's and Fortune's works in
>if you read about her life, say "The Unfinished Autobiography", she began
>her 'work' with the Tibetan master Djwhal Khul in November of 1919, in
>Sacramento, CA. And this body of work, numbering some 30 books, is quite
>rosicrucian in character; Heindelianism on a higher plane. Chief among
>these works is "A Treatise on the Seven Rays", which can be likened to
>"The Rosicrucian Cosmo-Conception", only on a higher level, amongst
>spiritual beings and their influences.
addition to more eccentric dillettantism, and these particular two ladies
are formidable icons in Theosophical history. To understand what is
happening with all this channeling in Tinseltown and elsewhere today, for
instance, we should trace it to the influences of Alice Baley and Dion
Fortune. One could argue that we should trace it still further back, but
that would be unfair to HPB.
We're talking about a spirituality where the "I" is dulled or put to sleep
in order to receive suggestions through channelling; and if some joker
whispers in your ear at that point that the woman you're living with
murdered you in a previous life, you're dumb enough to believe it and run
for your life immediately or try to punish her. These dumb-ass suggestions
are swallowed by New Agers who are into heavy channelling.
And then they start channeling wealth, money, sensuality, popularity,
beauty and all that. It's called love yourself, and money will come running
to you like a puppy. Tinseltown New Age, traceable back to Bailey & Fortune.
>Now, considering what Steiner has said about the occult powers workingYou're opening up a whole can of worms here, and I've only gradually become
>behind H.P. Blavatsky in the last quarter of the 19th century, wherein the
>so-called 'adyar theosophy' developed through her intimate relationship
>with the Master Koot Humi, who in actuality was the discarnate spirit of
>John King, an English privateer of the 17th century, I began to see a
>relationship between Humi/King and Khul/Heindel for the furtherance of the
>theosophical movement in America, c.1919 1949, now armed with a
>unique rosicrucian twist.
aware of a fraction of it. During the period of which you're speaking, in
the 1930's, there blossomed a movement in America known as "the I AM
Movement", which was primarily focused upon Count St. Germaine. This
movement was brought to a standstill when caught red-handed in mail fraud,
but when it was revived, it moved in an even more bizarre direction, being
increasingly influenced by greed, nationalism, and delusion. I'm talking
about what became the Church Universal and Triumphant of Elizabeth Claire
and Mark Prophet in Malibu, their Ascended Master Teachings, the violet
flame, etc. - plus, of course, an obsesion with the U.S. flag, the Founding
Fathers, demand for SDI (Star Wars), paranoid survivalism digging into
bunkers like the bigshots have in Washington and the populace in
Switzerland (where compulsory military service lasts a lifetime).
This Koot Humi character that you mention was also one of the Ascended
Masters for Mr. & Mrs. Prophet, but according to Steiner I seem to recall
he was some kind of 16th or 17th century pirate in the Caribbean - you say
he was a privateer, but that's kind of legal, isn't it? - although Count
St. Germaine was Christian Rosenkreutz - correct me if I'm wrong. The
history of Theosophy is a trip and a half and a lot more difficult to keep
track of than other types of history. (Are you reading me, Peter S? I'm not
going to repeat it.)
Pay careful attention to this: Elizabeth Claire Prophet - Mark Prophet,
alleged to have authored the Mark Gospel, died in 1974 - pursued the course
here described while paving her path with exactly the same kind of
government conspiracy speculations we ourselves are indulging in right here
on the AT. In other words, conspiracy talk can make you aware and awake, or
if it gets out of hand, it will chase you to the woods with a gun in your
hand, shooting at strangers and establishing kooky cults and militias. Lets
call that the RWRGE, shall we? The Right Wing Reaction to Government
Excesses. It's a demon whose threat is very real, from the inside of
everyone, heading straight for the War of All Against All. (Lightsearcher,
are you also present in class today?)
In other words, we have Communist Anarchism, which I usually call
Collectivist Anarchism, which is nothing but Communist dictatorship with an
alleged twist of anarchy; then we have Individualist Anarchism (Stirner,
Mackay, Tucker, Steiner), which is akin to anarchosophically oriented
sanity leading to the PoF and further to Anthroposophy; and then we have
gun-crazy paranoia. Ironically, it's the latter that is called Anarchy by
There is another interesting detail: What do Max Heindel and Mr. & Mrs.
Prophet have in common? Both movements settled in California, claimed that
America was the divinely ordained spiritual leader of humanity, and
ELIMINATED AHRIMAN, the Being Who is very very sensitive about being
noticed and identified, and whose approaching incarnation is to take place
on the Western Hemisphere.
Before I lived in California myself, I used to think it was the drinking
water. Well, looking back upon my years in L.A., perhaps it was, perhaps it
is. The L.A. water was originally stolen from some far-away county by the
Hearst family or some other dynasty a century ago; there's got to be a lot
of weird karma in that water producing Richard Nixon and Parry Hearst and
Max Heindel and the Violet Flame Prophets, Michael Jackson and Ronald
Reagan - becoming the most populous state in the union, attracting people
from all over the world, entertaining and infotaining the entire world
through the mass media - California with L.A. as its downtown center is the
capital of the world; it's the center from which opinions and attitudes and
fashions and trends and lifestyles are spewed out, absorbing Broadway and
Madison Avenue and Paris - everyone has to go through L.A. to count in this
world if they want to be really big at anything.
"In 1913, the local water company built an ingenious but ethically dubious
aqueduct to drain the Owens River 200 miles away into a city reservoir. The
movie Chinatown is a fictionalized account of that land and water grab. Los
Angeles still draws half of its water from the aqueduct. Last year, it
spent $80 million on a system to abate environmental damage and health
problems in the dry and dusty Owens Valley."
It's not quite that way, but almost. Steiner pointed out that in his day
and age, i.e. a century ago, the epicenter of world events was shifting
from the Atlantic to the Pacific. So it doesn't seem to be a coincidence
that Ahriman makes a lot of people so kooky around Tinseltown that we blame
it on the drinking water and say that the Government or some rogue old
hippie trucker from Texas poured a tanker full of acid into it.
Anyway, Randolf Hearst, who begat a granddaughter was kidnapped and turned
bankrobber for the Symbionese Liberation Army, also came out with a
newspaper - the Herald Examiner, wasn't it? Yep, I used to read it. I used
to subscribe, but it doesn't seem to be around anymore. Nevertheless, when
Patty was locked up in the early-to-mid-eighties - well, wasn't she? - her
family was still getting a paper out that I was subscribing to, and guess
what - they ran an exposé on Eluisabeth Claire Prophet in SIX PARTS, and
it wasn't pretty. Yes, it took them a week to get through with her.
It has to be the drinking water, that old nutty hippie-trucker from Texas
with his tanker full of acid coming to the aqueduct and reservoir every month.
- We've been through this before repeatedly, it should be all over the old AT archives.
Max Heindel didn't merely repeat Rudolf Steiner's teachings, he watered them down, plagiarizing them, falsifying them, and perverting them in the process, most significantly by eliminating Ahriman altogether(!), claiming that all these "revelations" were his own, that he, Heindel, was the great initiate and that Steiner was only a bigoted Jesuit dilettant. He put all his knowledge in the service of Rudolf Steiner's theosophical enemies, those who were deliberately spreading lies about him. So if you wanna whitewash Heindel, count me out.
"You see, we already have enough enemies and they act in a quite peculiar way. I don't wish to speak of this now, perhaps you already know about it from reading the "Newssheet". You also know the strange fact that there are people who have been saying for a long time now that what I teach is infected with all kinds of dogmatic Christianity, even with Jesuitism. Especially certain followers of the so-called Adyar-Theosophy talk in the worst way about this supposed Jesuitism, as well as many more hateful, unscrupulous things. And a certain source claiming outrage at the narrow-mindedness and perversity of our teaching, then completely falsified it. A man from America learned our teaching over a period of many months, wrote it down, brought it to America in a watered down version and then published a Rosicrucian Theosophy, which he copied from us. [The reference is to Max Heindel ed.]He says that he learned a lot from us, but that he was then called by the masters and learned more from them. He was silent about the fact that he took the more profound things from my unpublished lecture cycles. One could accept that such a thing could happen in America One could, like Hillel, remain meekly silent even when it spreads to Europe. Those who are most enraged at us here make a translation and in the translation say: Although there is also a Rosicrucian world view in Europe, it is narrow-minded and Jesuitical, and it can only thrive in the pure air of California.
"Well, that's enough! That is our enemies' method. We can look at these things not only calmly, but also with compassion but we may not close our eyes to them. When such things happen, then care must be taken by those who for years indulged such people who acted without scruples. I would really prefer not to speak about such things, were it not necessary in the service of truth. One must see everything with clarity."
( -- Rudolf Steiner: The Fifth Gospel, Lecture V, Oslo, Norway, October 5, 1913, GA 148)
- Steiner didn't use the name Ahriman in the start, he used the name
Jahve, as most Theosops did then, and if Heindel was student at that
time, he had no reason to use the word Ahriman.
As Steiner said, a watered down form, but he said nothing about
--- In email@example.com, "elfuncle"
>old AT archives.
> We've been through this before repeatedly, it should be all over the
>watered them down, plagiarizing them, falsifying them, and perverting
> Max Heindel didn't merely repeat Rudolf Steiner's teachings, he
them in the process, most significantly by eliminating Ahriman
altogether(!), claiming that all these "revelations" were his own, that
he, Heindel, was the great initiate and that Steiner was only a bigoted
Jesuit dilettant. He put all his knowledge in the service of Rudolf
Steiner's theosophical enemies, those who were deliberately spreading
lies about him. So if you wanna whitewash Heindel, count me out.
>peculiar way. I don't wish to speak of this now, perhaps you already
> "You see, we already have enough enemies and they act in a quite
know about it from reading the "Newssheet". You also know the strange
fact that there are people who have been saying for a long time now that
what I teach is infected with all kinds of dogmatic Christianity, even
with Jesuitism. Especially certain followers of the so-called
Adyar-Theosophy talk in the worst way about this supposed Jesuitism, as
well as many more hateful, unscrupulous things. And a certain source
claiming outrage at the narrow-mindedness and perversity of our
teaching, then completely falsified it. A man from America learned our
teaching over a period of many months, wrote it down, brought it to
America in a watered down version and then published a Rosicrucian
Theosophy, which he copied from us. [The reference is to Max Heindel
ed.]He says that he learned a lot from us, but that he was then
called by the masters and learned more from them. He was silent about
the fact that he took the more profound things from my unpublished
lecture cycles. One could accept that such a thing could happen in
America One could, like Hillel, remain meekly silent even when it
spreads to Europe. Those who are most enraged at us here make a
translation and in the translation say: Although there is also a
Rosicrucian world view in Europe, it is narrow-minded and Jesuitical,
and it can only thrive in the pure air of California.
>these things not only calmly, but also with compassion but we may
> "Well, that's enough! That is our enemies' method. We can look at
not close our eyes to them. When such things happen, then care must be
taken by those who for years indulged such people who acted without
scruples. I would really prefer not to speak about such things, were it
not necessary in the service of truth. One must see everything with
>October 5, 1913, GA 148)
> ( -- Rudolf Steiner: The Fifth Gospel, Lecture V, Oslo, Norway,