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Miryam35

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  • Frank Thomas Smith
    There was supposed to be a wedding, everything was ready, only the bridegroom was missing. Evening came, then night, the guests became nervous, the bride began
    Message 1 of 12 , Jun 27, 2004
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      There was supposed to be a wedding, everything was ready, only the
      bridegroom was missing. Evening came, then night, the guests became nervous,
      the bride began to fear that he would not came or had lost his way. So she
      called ten girls, had them fill their oil lamps and place them along the
      way. They stood there and waited hour after hour. They were tired and fell
      asleep. At midnight they heard the call: the bridegroom is coming. But they
      sat in the dark, for the lamps had gone out. Five of the girls had brought
      an oil supply with them, and they filled their lamps. The others had to go
      into town first to get oil. Meanwhile, however, the bridegroom arrived and
      took the girls whose lamps were burning into the hall and closed the doors.
      When the others came, no one let them in no matter how much they called out
      and knocked.

      What a terrible story, I said. What kind of bridegroom is that who makes
      everyone wait so long for him? There’s no more oil, the food gets cold, the
      guests mistrustful, the bride is worried to death, and no one knows if this
      bridegroom will come and if he even exists and if the wedding will take
      place. And who knows if he who finally arrives is really the bridegroom.
      Maybe the bride is still waiting. And those who were shut out. They stand
      outside, having arrived a little late, and they let them knock and call out,
      although their lamps are lit again. What a hard man is that bridegroom.
      Rabbi, your story is a bad one. What does it have to do with you? Wouldn’t
      you, in case you were the bridegroom, wouldn’t you leave all the doors open?
      Could you happily celebrate the wedding when there are those who are shut
      out? Shouldn’t you have rebuked the girls who didn’t share their oil?
      Listen, Rabbi, I will share my oil and I will take those who are shut out
      with me into the hall, or I will stay with them outside.

      Yeshua said: You are right.

      How can you say, Rabbi, that I am right when your story is quite different?
      Or you aren’t telling the real ending, and its ending isn’t its ending, and
      no one know the ending. The bride is still waiting.

      Yes, she is waiting, she is always waiting, and her waiting is her wedding.

      Whoever can understand that, let them, I said, and left.


      Frank Thomas Smith
      http://SouthernCrossReview.org
    • dottie zold
      Frank: ... That s my girl! I have made the same deal with God pertaining to a certain relative of mine. How wonderful it is to see such a head strong gal with
      Message 2 of 12 , Jun 27, 2004
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        Frank:
        Miryam 35:
        > Listen, Rabbi, I will share my oil and I will take
        > those who are shut out
        > with me into the hall, or I will stay with them
        > outside.

        That's my girl! I have made the same deal with God
        pertaining to a certain relative of mine. How
        wonderful it is to see such a head strong gal with a
        heart of gold.

        Thanks Frank for continuing on with the Miryam saga.

        Dottie




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      • zapdingo
        This is an excerpt from an article with an interesting take on the Moore/Bush issue: The theatrical poster for Fahrenheit 9/11 (which even Moore s critics
        Message 3 of 12 , Jun 28, 2004
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          This is an excerpt from an article with an interesting take on the Moore/Bush issue:
           
          "The theatrical poster for "Fahrenheit 9/11" (which even Moore's critics must admit is pretty darn clever) features a heavily doctored photo of a smiling Moore holding hands with President Bush above a tagline which reads -- "Controversy . . . what controversy?" It's funny enough on a superficial level but even funnier in an ironic sense, because the two men actually have more in common than either of them would probably care to admit. "
          Read the whole thing here:
           
           

          Bryan
           


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        • holderlin66
          zapdingo wrote: Dear Zappy; Alright, I read the article you indicated. True, it wonderfully reflected the fair and balanced dictum of two men in a complex
          Message 4 of 12 , Jun 28, 2004
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            zapdingo wrote:

            Dear Zappy;

            Alright, I read the article you indicated. True, it wonderfully
            reflected the fair and balanced dictum of two men in a complex world
            who both present slants of the truth. And as we know truth or
            approach to truth is rather complex.

            " People are complicated creatures, and understanding their
            motivations and interactions takes time, thought and patience. All
            those things are in short supply in the best of times, but when a
            nation is at war they are as scarce as a copy of My Two Dads at a
            Southern Baptist Convention meeting.
            We want shortcuts, easy answers, and quick (if inadequate)
            solutions to our problems. That's where short-sighted and self-
            possessed men like Moore and Bush come in.
            Unfortunately, the things that make us feel good aren't always
            good for us. The scourge of terrorism is a multi-faceted, deep-
            rooted problem that will not be resolved by overthrowing a handful
            of shoddy third world governments or by replacing a marginally
            competent chief executive with another marginally competent chief
            executive.
            I wish things were as simple as Moore and Bush are telling us
            they are, but they just aren't. These pied pipers of the left and
            right and are both leading people away from the truth, and their act
            is getting tired"

            Bradford questions passion;

            Now of all the commentary out there on Fahrenheit this fine
            diplomatic middle ground piece is a wonderful example of moral
            relativism and IMO is the kind of luke warm stuff people like to
            soothe their aching brains with.

            But I am contentious. I have ached and puzzled over my relation to
            spiritual science my whole life. My wonderful wife attended Texas
            A&M and holds an MBA. I hold a Speech and Drama diploma from the
            Goetheanum. Now, in point of fact, my career as artist, playwright,
            teacher, by some standards is fairly useless. People never heard of
            the Goetheanum. It doesn't even register as a blip. It doesn't help
            me land high paying jobs. Yet I contend that what I ever and ever
            learn from Spiritual Science is heroic, infused with shattering
            thoughts that less than 1/2 of 1% of any of the highly educated
            would ever touch or care to approach realistically. And this really,
            really pisses me off and is part of my biography.

            Now when I describe Michael Moore as a Socratic Gadfly, I will even
            go further. When we watched Walter Cronkite, when I was younger and
            LIVE VietNam footage was in American Living rooms, we weren't so
            insulated from what the passion and the blood of our very ideas
            meant to villages holding onto Buddhism as we hold onto Fundamental
            Christianity. Best comparison was Oliver Stone's "Heaven and Earth".

            Here I digress out to little towns and villages in the East and
            those in the West..Here we encounter the savage attack on Buddhistic
            8 fold path followers, and on the otherside of the world,
            fundamental christian values - East and West and Heaven and Earth;
            and the complexity of the issues leads us to, and this is not a
            lukewarm issue, and less than 1/8 of 1% care to think on these
            subjects, it leads to Two Jesus Children, Buddha on Mars and
            Heinlein's "Stranger in a Strange land" as well as Hesse,
            Siddhartha. Nobody wants to touch the Two Jesus Children and Steiner
            did. We at the Michael School don't even connect the dots that would
            bring home all that Dr. Steiner prayed to Angels we would do.

            So Moore as the gadfly of our passivity to the press, and passivity
            to exactly what happened. What happened was, and this is one of
            those things never talked about, News rooms now had government
            advisers in them. America was allowed to live in a bubble and
            insulated from looking at the impact, and factual results of
            policies. This helped lull the Sixties and wonderful Dylan/Augustine
            generation into it's current passivity until recently.

            Moore, Maher, Franken and always Carlin and even Foxworthy has
            shifted and reawakened a paradigm that once was possible in
            intelligent nightly news in the sixties and seventies. Something we
            are missing in all this was our moral complicity. We have drifted so
            far into the insulated bubble that we couldn't even build the
            intelligent thoughts that reveal our moral complicity. Our thoughts
            were being numbed into toothlessness. Esoteric training is a giant
            dose of how intimate moral complicity really is.

            In Esoteric Training we are complicit in the community of Beings in
            which we live. We share the daily bread of not only meaningful
            humanism and commons sense, but Beings. We share as a community and
            are complicit with Ahriman, Michael, Lucifer and Christ, our Angels
            and our fellow human beings, animal, plants, mineral..and elemental
            kingdsoms. We are engaged in complicity and Moral relativism,
            especially the type of sweet diplomacy presented in this article you
            presented. It wonderfully expresses the opinion... Well who is right
            and who is wrong, it is far too complex and maybe they are both
            Right and everyone is happy? This is lukewarm whitewash.

            I drew attention a long time back to how Steiner responded to some
            vague scientist who blatantly slammed wisdom, not exactly about
            Steiner, but a Chemist Steiner heard, said, nobody could ever know
            anything about spirit in the same way as they think they know stuff
            about Science. Steiner got really passionate. On this list on
            message # 4303 I dealt with Steiner's passion over this comment.

            There was no Goetheanum yet, just something sitting inside Steiner
            and voices raised like a giant typhoon, against Steiner's small
            craft. There were whole unborn destinies Steiner was listening to.
            Whole waves of souls who would crave to wrestle with real issues and
            learn to share in the complicity of world Beings.

            So, of all the articles about Fahrenheit, you offer this, is it that
            you want us to know, that among the raging lunatics on this list,
            Riley for one, there are still those who are sensible, who see both
            sides of issue? But, the beauty of such a list, is that you have a
            chance to say what you think without mumbling, what exactly will
            others think, if I say something stupid.

            The other point I would make is that Brother Ron and I have had
            spats and I think we both consider that a Lewis and Barfield type
            spat, updated to passionate issues of our time, reveals larger
            chunks of our whole humanity.

            Brother Ron has never been luke warm and he always, always has
            exhibited a sense of humor higher than most were able to digest.
            That is most wooden Anthros who only heard words and didn't hear the
            humor and passion of the man, Ron. Ron has tremendous music and is a
            wonderful father and for better or for worse, he is on our side, the
            side of humor and passion.

            I hope others would not be as reckless as I am with Spiritual
            Science but at least would show passion instead of this lukewarm
            nonsense of moral relativism. You know the passage in the Bible......

            [message mysteriously broke off here]
          • Jo Ann Schwartz
            Yo, Bryan! Did you go see the movie? Did you pay attention at the end, when Michael Moore notes that the military of this country tends to be made up of poor
            Message 5 of 12 , Jun 28, 2004
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              Yo, Bryan!

              Did you go see the movie? Did you pay attention at the end, when Michael Moore
              notes that the military of this country tends to be made up of poor and working
              class men and women... folks the "system" is rigged against from the word go.
              But still, they volunteer to serve and protect us, to give up their lives for
              us, and "all they ask in return is that we promise not to put them in harms way
              unless truly and absolutely necessary." Then Moore asks the key question: How
              do those troops trust us again?

              Or as John Kerry famously asked back in the early 1970's -- How do you ask
              someone to be the last man to die for a mistake?

              Musing on war and its passions....
              JoAnn
            • zapdingo
              Bradford wrote: the type of sweet diplomacy presented in this article you presented. It wonderfully expresses the opinion... Well who is right and who is
              Message 6 of 12 , Jun 29, 2004
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                Bradford wrote:
                 the type of sweet diplomacy presented in this article you
                presented. It wonderfully expresses the opinion... Well who is right
                and who is wrong, it is far too complex and maybe they are both
                Right and everyone is happy? This is lukewarm
                 
                You missed the point, my friend. It's not about who is right or who is wrong. It is about where the truth is. And truth is not the monopoly of one individual or political view.  You may find a bit of it here and a bit of it there, even hiding beneath a bunch of lies sometimes. You may find some of it  in an Osama bin Laden message,  in a Bush speech, and yes, in a Michael Moore movie.
                As for passion, no need to preach about passion to a Sagittarius with ascendant in Leo. It so happens that I'd rather be the master of my own fire and not the other way round. I use it to illuminate, and then observe and learn,   instead of letting it run free and wild, burning down whatever is in its way, scorching friends and foes alike in the process.
                If you need some further convincing, my beloved spouse and I will be moving to Atlanta this year. We may meet in person, then. This  encounter may provide the kick in the butt you need to never accuse me of being lukewarm again.
                Bryan

                 the type of sweet diplomacy presented in this article you
                presented. It wonderfully expresses the opinion... Well who is right
                and who is wrong, it is far too complex and maybe they are both
                Right and everyone is happy? This is lukewarm whitewash.

                I drew attention a long time back to how Steiner responded to some
                vague scientist who blatantly slammed wisdom, not exactly about
                Steiner, but a Chemist Steiner heard, said, nobody could ever know
                anything about spirit in the same way as they think they know stuff
                about Science. Steiner got really passionate. On this list on
                message # 4303 I dealt with Steiner's passion over this comment.

                There was no Goetheanum yet, just something sitting inside Steiner
                and voices raised like a giant typhoon, against Steiner's small
                craft. There were whole unborn destinies Steiner was listening to.
                Whole waves of souls who would crave to wrestle with real issues and
                learn to share in the complicity of world Beings.

                So, of all the articles about Fahrenheit, you offer this, is it that
                you want us to know, that among the raging lunatics on this list,
                Riley for one, there are still those who are sensible, who see both
                sides of issue? But, the beauty of such a list, is that you have a
                chance to say what you think without mumbling, what exactly will
                others think, if I say something stupid.

                The other point I would make is that Brother Ron and I have had
                spats and I think we both consider that a Lewis and Barfield type
                spat, updated to passionate issues of our time, reveals larger
                chunks of our whole humanity.

                Brother Ron has never been luke warm and he always, always has
                exhibited a sense of humor higher than most were able to digest.
                That is most wooden Anthros who only heard words and didn't hear the
                humor and passion of the man, Ron. Ron has tremendous music and is a
                wonderful father and for better or for worse, he is on our side, the
                side of humor and passion.

                I hope others would not be as reckless as I am with Spiritual
                Science but at least would show passion instead of this lukewarm
                nonsense of moral relativism. You know the passage in the Bible......

                [message mysteriously broke off here]



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              • zapdingo
                ... You, you! ... No. Did you pay attention at the end, No. ...when Michael Moore notes that the military of this country tends to be made up of poor and
                Message 7 of 12 , Jun 29, 2004
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                  <sr_joanna@y...> wrote:

                  > Yo, Bryan!

                  You, you!

                  > Did you go see the movie?

                  No.

                  Did you pay attention at the end,

                  No.

                  ...when Michael Moore notes that the military of this country tends
                  to be made up of poor and working
                  > class men and women... folks the "system" is rigged against from
                  the word go.
                  > But still, they volunteer to serve and protect us, to give up their
                  lives for
                  > us, and "all they ask in return is that we promise not to put them
                  in harms way
                  > unless truly and absolutely necessary."

                  I see. There are situations when war is truly and absolutely
                  necessary.

                  Then Moore asks the key question: How
                  > do those troops trust us again?

                  Troops know they are merely pawns in the hands of politicians, whom
                  they mainly despise and seldom trust.

                  >
                  > Or as John Kerry famously asked back in the early 1970's -- How do
                  you ask
                  > someone to be the last man to die for a mistake?

                  He should be able to answer this himself now. Last I heard, he was
                  against pulling our troops from Iraq.

                  Bryan

                  > Musing on war and its passions.... > JoAnn
                • zapdingo
                  Just found this info on the plans lawsuit: http://hem.passagen.se/thebee/comments/litigation1.html The site was last updated in 2002 so it doesn t mention what
                  Message 8 of 12 , Jun 29, 2004
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                    Just found this info on the plans lawsuit:
                     
                    The site was last updated in 2002 so it doesn't mention what happened to the appeal mentioned (if anything).
                    Bryan

                     


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                  • dottie zold
                    ... Hey Bryan, Never met another Sag with rising in Leo. Hello:) Anyhow, I disagree with the sentiment that they mainly despise and seldom trust the
                    Message 9 of 12 , Jun 30, 2004
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                      Bryan:
                      > Troops know they are merely pawns in the hands of
                      > politicians, whom
                      > they mainly despise and seldom trust.

                      Hey Bryan,

                      Never met another Sag with rising in Leo. Hello:)
                      Anyhow, I disagree with the sentiment that they mainly
                      despise and seldom trust the politicians on a
                      technical point. The majority of the soldiers strongly
                      trust in the Republican leadership and historically
                      vote on that side. It is droned into them once they
                      begin all the drilling. Several of my army, airforce
                      friends told me that they are told to vote Republican
                      in no uncertain terms. And one does not have to twist
                      to much to get that after being in the military for a
                      year or so. I was pretty shocked but when you have
                      Rush Limbaughs, being piped in daily at tax payers
                      expense in Iraq, as one who represents what is
                      happening here in the states its not to hard
                      understand,

                      My best,
                      Dottie




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                    • walkinsnotwelcome
                      ... Would that it were so...
                      Message 10 of 12 , Jun 30, 2004
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                        zapdingo wrote:


                        > Troops know they are merely pawns in the hands of politicians, whom
                        > they mainly despise and seldom trust.

                        Would that it were so...
                      • zapdingo
                        dottie zold wrote: Never met another Sag with rising in Leo. Hello:) Well, hello there! And let me tell you this doesn t surprise me. Due to my
                        Message 11 of 12 , Jul 1, 2004
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                          dottie zold <dottie_z > wrote:
                           
                          Never met another Sag with rising in Leo. Hello:)

                           
                          Well, hello there!
                          And let me tell you this doesn't surprise me. Due to my lack of knowledge on the subject, I was never able to follow well the studies you are undertaking. However,  from what comes through in your writings, I always knew: We are kindred spirits, you and I. Therefore it only makes sense that we share this very interesting astrological configuration, which comes, by the way, with some pretty neat features: For starters, due to all this fire around us any pie thrown in our direction cooks immediatelly to ashes, never coming close to its target.  Just a question of keeping the flames strong and steady, really.
                          My best to you, too.
                          Bryan
                           
                           


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                        • Jo Ann Schwartz
                          ... Of course. The question Michael Moore is asking, along with many other folks, is: Was THIS war -- the war in Iraq -- necessary? Especially given the
                          Message 12 of 12 , Jul 1, 2004
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                            JoAnn:
                            >> ...when Michael Moore notes that the military of this country tends
                            >> to be made up of poor and working class men and women... folks the "system"
                            >> is rigged against from the word go. But still, they volunteer to serve and
                            >> protect us, to give up their lives for us, and "all they ask in return is
                            >> that we promise not to put them in harms way unless truly and absolutely
                            >> necessary."

                            Bryan:
                            > I see. There are situations when war is truly and absolutely necessary.

                            Of course. The question Michael Moore is asking, along with many other folks,
                            is: Was THIS war -- the war in Iraq -- necessary? Especially given the needs
                            of the war and reconstruction in Afghanistan, the need for greater expenditure
                            on 'homeland security', the way intelligence was twisted (to conform to
                            BushCo's pre-existing beliefs), and on and on and on. Especially given that
                            the American invasion and occupation of Iraq has served as a recruiting tool
                            for the very terrorists BushCo claims to oppose -- and predictably so, if Bush
                            & co had bothered to ask anyone who has studied the middle east and its
                            politics (which according to my friends who do, they pretty much didn't).

                            JoAnn:
                            >> Or as John Kerry famously asked back in the early 1970's -- How do you ask
                            >> someone to be the last man to die for a mistake?

                            Bryan:
                            > He should be able to answer this himself now. Last I heard, he was
                            > against pulling our troops from Iraq.

                            Yeah, he's caught himself between a rock and a hard place there. On the other
                            hand, it would be hard to make more of a hash of it than our current Fearless
                            Leaders have done. At least Kerry has some first-hand exposure to combat,
                            which one hopes will help keep him honest...

                            Musing on the nuances and hard choices inherent in service to one's country,
                            JoAnn
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