Loading ...
Sorry, an error occurred while loading the content.
 

Polmic propaganda pundits

Expand Messages
  • Mike Helsher
    Hey all, I hope not to bore you all to death, but our former anti-Steiner guest, and polemic propaganda game-show host, is up on the podium again over on the
    Message 1 of 10 , Jun 18, 2004
      Hey all,
       
      I hope not to bore you all to death, but our former anti-Steiner guest, and polemic propaganda game-show host, is up on the podium again over on the critics list,  http://makeashorterlink.com/?B5D862998  still interpreting written words to mean what he thinks they mean, based on the context that he likes to play his word games in: namely Rudolf Steiner's relationship to the German fascist ideology responsible for the holocaust. And oh how clever his word hunting seems to those who may be intimidated by intellectual prowess, and reading and writing ability. Or maybe even those who might like to keep such skills as *high up* on the human evolutionary scale.
       
      I for one am not intimidated by such skills when they so clearly present a complete  - and I think deliberate - lack of empathy. Which leaves open the door to polemic bias, bent on the destruction of Rudolf Steiner's reputation, and all that has come forth in the world as a result (which, I might add, could be conveniently replaced with the proliferation of Peter S's own ideological bend).
       
      His mountains of so called evidence amount to a grain of sand, to anyone who has any type of connection to their own inner reality, or even a heart, for that matter.
       
      Let the heartless drumbeat of those who would destroy what RS has brought to the world, thump on over the internet. Hell, we might even start an internet soap-opera and call it:
       
      "AS THE WORDS TURN"
       
      Then all those who have similar idiosyncrasies could hang together of fight for the podium.
       
      Silence is not always Golden.
       
      Mike
         
       
      "If you bring forth what is within you, what you bring forth will save you. If you do not bring forth what is within you, what you do not bring forth will destroy you."
       
       
    • holderlin66
      The Beheading of the Glorious Prophet, Forerunner and Baptist, John The martyric death of St. John the Baptist in the 32nd year after the Nativity of Our Lord
      Message 2 of 10 , Jun 18, 2004
        The Beheading of the Glorious Prophet, Forerunner and Baptist, John

        The martyric death of St. John the Baptist in the 32nd year after the
        Nativity of Our Lord Jesus Christ was recorded by the Evangelists
        Matthew and Mark.

        After the Baptism of Our Lord, St. John the Baptist was thrown into
        prison by Herod Antipas, the Tetrarch of Galilee. (After the death of
        Herod the Great, the Romans divided Palestine into four parts, each
        to be ruled by a Roman henchman. Herod Antipas was appointed the
        ruler of Galilee by the Roman emperor Augustus.) The Prophet of God
        openly denounced Herod for having abandoned his lawful wife, daughter
        of Aretas, the Arabian king, and for cohabiting unlawfully with
        Herodias, his brother Philip's wife. On his birthday Herod gave a
        banquet for his nobles, dignitaries and officers. Salome, Herodias'
        daughter, danced before the guests and greatly pleased Herod. In
        gratitude to the maiden, Herod swore that he would give her whatever
        she asked, even unto one half of his kingdom.

        Following the advice of her wicked mother, Herodias, Salome asked for
        the head of John the Baptist on a salver. This saddened Herod for he
        feared the wrath of God which would visit him if he were to murder
        the prophet whose words he himself had heeded in the past. He was
        also afraid of the people who loved the Forerunner. But because of
        his rash promise, made in front of his guests, he felt obliged to
        order St. John to be beheaded and his head given to Salome. Tradition
        has it that the mouth of the severed head of the prophet of
        repentance opened just once more to utter these words: 'Herod, thou
        shouldst not have the wife of Philip thy brother." Salome took the
        head on the salver and brought it to her mother.

        The enraged Herodias took a needle and with it repeatedly stabbed the
        tongue of the prophet and buried his holy head in an unclean place.
        But the pious Johanna, wife of Herod's steward Huza placed the head
        in a clay vessel and interred it on the Mount of Olives where Herod
        owned a piece of land. The body of St. John was claimed the same
        night by his disciples and buried in Sebaste, the place where his
        villainous execution had taken place. Herod continued to rule for a
        while after the murder of St. John. Pontius Pilate, governor of Judea
        sent to him Christ, who was bound with ropes, and Herod mocked Him.

        God's judgment befell Herod, Herodias and Salome even in their
        lifetimes. As Salome was crossing the frozen river Sikoris, she fell
        through the ice and was crushed by it in such a manner that her body
        floated in the water while her head stayed above ice. As once her
        feet had danced on the ground now her limbs writhed helplessly in the
        icy water. Thus she remained until the sharp ice severed her neck.
        Her headless body was never found; her severed head was brought to
        Herod and Herodias just as the head of St. John the Baptist had been
        brought to them as an earlier time. The Arabian king, Aretas, moved
        his armies against Herod to avenge the shame of his discarded
        daughter. Having suffered defeat, Herod incurred the wrath of Caesar
        Gaius Caligula (3741 A.D.) and was exiled, together with Herodias, to
        Gaul and thence to Spain. Tradition has it that they both perished
        there in an earthquake."

        The Green Man and the Etheric world;
        Midsummer/Midwinter seasonal meditation.

        For all the traditional romances about Arthur begin in this way, with
        a party at Christmas or Pentecost that is interrupted by an
        unexpected visitor with a tale or a challenge.

        Just as the food is brought in, they hear a noise, and a knight comes
        hurtling into the hall. He is unknown, of great size, but well-
        proportioned (so good-looking), and entirely green. His equipment
        (described in great detail) is green and gold, his horse too is
        green, even his very long hair is green, to say nothing of his
        enormous beard. The audience, like Arthur's knights, is bewildered.
        In the romances, if a knight comes riding in like this, he comes as a
        challenger; if he is an evil knight, his armour is red or black. The
        uncertainty is deliberate: this green knight is not armed to fight,
        and in one hand he carries a branch of holly, the medieval equivalent
        of a Christmas-tree; but in the other he has a huge and very sharp
        axe, it too with ribbons of green and gold. Is this a knight, a
        giant, or a spirit of nature?

        The knight addresses the court defiantly, mocking their very high
        reputation for prowess in arms and peerlessness in courtesy. He
        explains he has come to play a game; not, as in the usual romances,
        to fight. He considers them as beardless children, only the game is
        not a common one. It involves an exchange of blows, he explains, with
        his axe. This year if one of the knights is bold enough to give him a
        blow, he must be ready to take a return blow from him this time next
        year. The response is silence! He begins to mock them: "Where is now
        your arrogance and your boasting?" Arthur grabs the axe, but Gawain
        his nephew insists that the king is too important to take such a
        risk, and asks to take his place.

        The knight insists on his clearly stating the contract of their game,
        but when Gawain asks where he must go to meet him next year the Green
        Knight says that he will tell him after the blow. It is a "beheading
        game" as is found in Irish folklore, for example; and Sir Gawain duly
        cuts off the knight's head, which rolls around on the floor while the
        body bleeds but does not fall. Instead it goes and picks up its head,
        jumps onto the horse, and the head then opens its eyes and tells Sir
        Gawain to look for the Green Chapel, which he is sure to find if he
        looks for it. Then he gallops out. The party continues, as if nothing
        much had happened, but the atmosphere is strange.

        "After extensive apostolic work St. Paul was arrested
        and spent two years in prison in Rome. He was martyred by beheading
        around the same time as St. Peter's martyrdom in Rome. Both of these
        great Saints are honored this June 29, the feast of Saints Peter and
        Paul.
        There is a tradition that when St. Paul was beheaded his head
        fell and rolled landing three times __ and each time a fountain of
        water sprang up. Today one can visit the shrine of Tre Fontane
        (three fountains) on the outskirts of Rome, near the Basilica of St.
        Paul Outside the Walls (of Rome.)"

        "Paul healed many diseased people and he got bitten by a viper, but
        this did not harm him. After three months they boarded another ship
        and arrived in Rome. Christians in Rome received Paul warmly. In Rome
        Paul was placed under house arrest. He lived in a rented house for
        two years and could receive visitors, so he could continue teaching
        and preaching God's kingdom. He invited the chiefs of the Jews to
        hear the gospel, after which some of them believed and some not. Paul
        ended his speech with the following: "Be it known therefore unto you,
        that the salvation of God is sent unto the Gentiles, and that they
        will hear it."

        It was by now the beginning of winter and the voyage onwards was
        beset with strong and adverse winds. From Crete a gale blew them down
        to Malta where the ship was wrecked in what is now called St Pauls
        Bay. Eventually a ship brought them to Rome and there he was beheaded
        the same day Peter was crucified, around AD 67. It is apocryphally
        told that when Paul was beheaded milk and not blood flowed from his
        body."

        Finally, not to let it out of the bag, but Medusa was the atavistic
        clairvoyant kundalini serpent eyes that have to do with the brain as
        an organ of perception or the brain becoming Eyes in the sky.
        Atavistic Eyes that failed to use human thinking as the organ for the
        perception of thought but has allowed the wild instincts of the will
        to overwhelm the I AM. Ugliness, and overtaxing the astral by
        crippling the etheric, turning the etheric to stone, is that
        atavistic eyes in the brain, by taking too much LSD, acid, mushrooms
        or never using the organ of the brain for moral insight, moral
        imagination, moral intuition and moral technique, cripples the region
        where the I Am uses Thinking as a method to reconnect CONSCIOUSLY to
        the the spiritual world.

        Perseus cuts off the Summer head of ancient atavistic clairvoyance,
        but it is a deed each person must do for themselves in order to find
        the I AM and the thinking organ for the perecption of thoughts and
        ideas. See the Philosophy of Freedom.
      • dottie zold
        Bradford, I have Salome with Jesus at the cross with the other women. I also have John sacrificing the intellect for the heart. I find that Herodias was not an
        Message 3 of 10 , Jun 18, 2004
          Bradford,

          I have Salome with Jesus at the cross with the other women. I also
          have John sacrificing the intellect for the heart. I find that
          Herodias was not an evil woman rather the Mother and this is where
          John needed to go: to the Mothers. The dance performed by Salome I
          have as the reenactment of the seven veils being lifted and seven
          things of the worldly aspect left behind at each interval. Her name
          means 'peace' and she was with Him through out. The beheading was for
          the glory of God and the transformation from one epoch possibility to
          the next.

          Did you never consider where the 'grail' everyone was looking for,
          and many have credited Magdalene and Josephus with having taken,
          truly was? If Magdalene indeed had it with her what would you think
          this would mean? And I am not speaking of a babe and I am not
          speaking of the one we all have within us. I am speaking of the
          specific One that rested within Magdalene.

          my thoughts,
          d



          > The Beheading of the Glorious Prophet, Forerunner and Baptist, John
          >
          > The martyric death of St. John the Baptist in the 32nd year after
          the
          > Nativity of Our Lord Jesus Christ was recorded by the Evangelists
          > Matthew and Mark.
          >
          > After the Baptism of Our Lord, St. John the Baptist was thrown into
          > prison by Herod Antipas, the Tetrarch of Galilee. (After the death
          of
          > Herod the Great, the Romans divided Palestine into four parts, each
          > to be ruled by a Roman henchman. Herod Antipas was appointed the
          > ruler of Galilee by the Roman emperor Augustus.) The Prophet of God
          > openly denounced Herod for having abandoned his lawful wife,
          daughter
          > of Aretas, the Arabian king, and for cohabiting unlawfully with
          > Herodias, his brother Philip's wife. On his birthday Herod gave a
          > banquet for his nobles, dignitaries and officers. Salome, Herodias'
          > daughter, danced before the guests and greatly pleased Herod. In
          > gratitude to the maiden, Herod swore that he would give her
          whatever
          > she asked, even unto one half of his kingdom.
          >
          > Following the advice of her wicked mother, Herodias, Salome asked
          for
          > the head of John the Baptist on a salver. This saddened Herod for
          he
          > feared the wrath of God which would visit him if he were to murder
          > the prophet whose words he himself had heeded in the past. He was
          > also afraid of the people who loved the Forerunner. But because of
          > his rash promise, made in front of his guests, he felt obliged to
          > order St. John to be beheaded and his head given to Salome.
          Tradition
          > has it that the mouth of the severed head of the prophet of
          > repentance opened just once more to utter these words: 'Herod, thou
          > shouldst not have the wife of Philip thy brother." Salome took the
          > head on the salver and brought it to her mother.
          >
          > The enraged Herodias took a needle and with it repeatedly stabbed
          the
          > tongue of the prophet and buried his holy head in an unclean place.
          > But the pious Johanna, wife of Herod's steward Huza placed the head
          > in a clay vessel and interred it on the Mount of Olives where Herod
          > owned a piece of land. The body of St. John was claimed the same
          > night by his disciples and buried in Sebaste, the place where his
          > villainous execution had taken place. Herod continued to rule for a
          > while after the murder of St. John. Pontius Pilate, governor of
          Judea
          > sent to him Christ, who was bound with ropes, and Herod mocked Him.
          >
          > God's judgment befell Herod, Herodias and Salome even in their
          > lifetimes. As Salome was crossing the frozen river Sikoris, she
          fell
          > through the ice and was crushed by it in such a manner that her
          body
          > floated in the water while her head stayed above ice. As once her
          > feet had danced on the ground now her limbs writhed helplessly in
          the
          > icy water. Thus she remained until the sharp ice severed her neck.
          > Her headless body was never found; her severed head was brought to
          > Herod and Herodias just as the head of St. John the Baptist had
          been
          > brought to them as an earlier time. The Arabian king, Aretas, moved
          > his armies against Herod to avenge the shame of his discarded
          > daughter. Having suffered defeat, Herod incurred the wrath of
          Caesar
          > Gaius Caligula (3741 A.D.) and was exiled, together with Herodias,
          to
          > Gaul and thence to Spain. Tradition has it that they both perished
          > there in an earthquake."
          >
          > The Green Man and the Etheric world;
          > Midsummer/Midwinter seasonal meditation.
          >
          > For all the traditional romances about Arthur begin in this way,
          with
          > a party at Christmas or Pentecost that is interrupted by an
          > unexpected visitor with a tale or a challenge.
          >
          > Just as the food is brought in, they hear a noise, and a knight
          comes
          > hurtling into the hall. He is unknown, of great size, but well-
          > proportioned (so good-looking), and entirely green. His equipment
          > (described in great detail) is green and gold, his horse too is
          > green, even his very long hair is green, to say nothing of his
          > enormous beard. The audience, like Arthur's knights, is bewildered.
          > In the romances, if a knight comes riding in like this, he comes as
          a
          > challenger; if he is an evil knight, his armour is red or black.
          The
          > uncertainty is deliberate: this green knight is not armed to fight,
          > and in one hand he carries a branch of holly, the medieval
          equivalent
          > of a Christmas-tree; but in the other he has a huge and very sharp
          > axe, it too with ribbons of green and gold. Is this a knight, a
          > giant, or a spirit of nature?
          >
          > The knight addresses the court defiantly, mocking their very high
          > reputation for prowess in arms and peerlessness in courtesy. He
          > explains he has come to play a game; not, as in the usual romances,
          > to fight. He considers them as beardless children, only the game is
          > not a common one. It involves an exchange of blows, he explains,
          with
          > his axe. This year if one of the knights is bold enough to give him
          a
          > blow, he must be ready to take a return blow from him this time
          next
          > year. The response is silence! He begins to mock them: "Where is
          now
          > your arrogance and your boasting?" Arthur grabs the axe, but Gawain
          > his nephew insists that the king is too important to take such a
          > risk, and asks to take his place.
          >
          > The knight insists on his clearly stating the contract of their
          game,
          > but when Gawain asks where he must go to meet him next year the
          Green
          > Knight says that he will tell him after the blow. It is
          a "beheading
          > game" as is found in Irish folklore, for example; and Sir Gawain
          duly
          > cuts off the knight's head, which rolls around on the floor while
          the
          > body bleeds but does not fall. Instead it goes and picks up its
          head,
          > jumps onto the horse, and the head then opens its eyes and tells
          Sir
          > Gawain to look for the Green Chapel, which he is sure to find if he
          > looks for it. Then he gallops out. The party continues, as if
          nothing
          > much had happened, but the atmosphere is strange.
          >
          > "After extensive apostolic work St. Paul was arrested
          > and spent two years in prison in Rome. He was martyred by beheading
          > around the same time as St. Peter's martyrdom in Rome. Both of
          these
          > great Saints are honored this June 29, the feast of Saints Peter
          and
          > Paul.
          > There is a tradition that when St. Paul was beheaded his head
          > fell and rolled landing three times __ and each time a fountain of
          > water sprang up. Today one can visit the shrine of Tre Fontane
          > (three fountains) on the outskirts of Rome, near the Basilica of
          St.
          > Paul Outside the Walls (of Rome.)"
          >
          > "Paul healed many diseased people and he got bitten by a viper, but
          > this did not harm him. After three months they boarded another ship
          > and arrived in Rome. Christians in Rome received Paul warmly. In
          Rome
          > Paul was placed under house arrest. He lived in a rented house for
          > two years and could receive visitors, so he could continue teaching
          > and preaching God's kingdom. He invited the chiefs of the Jews to
          > hear the gospel, after which some of them believed and some not.
          Paul
          > ended his speech with the following: "Be it known therefore unto
          you,
          > that the salvation of God is sent unto the Gentiles, and that they
          > will hear it."
          >
          > It was by now the beginning of winter and the voyage onwards was
          > beset with strong and adverse winds. From Crete a gale blew them
          down
          > to Malta where the ship was wrecked in what is now called St Pauls
          > Bay. Eventually a ship brought them to Rome and there he was
          beheaded
          > the same day Peter was crucified, around AD 67. It is apocryphally
          > told that when Paul was beheaded milk and not blood flowed from his
          > body."
          >
          > Finally, not to let it out of the bag, but Medusa was the atavistic
          > clairvoyant kundalini serpent eyes that have to do with the brain
          as
          > an organ of perception or the brain becoming Eyes in the sky.
          > Atavistic Eyes that failed to use human thinking as the organ for
          the
          > perception of thought but has allowed the wild instincts of the
          will
          > to overwhelm the I AM. Ugliness, and overtaxing the astral by
          > crippling the etheric, turning the etheric to stone, is that
          > atavistic eyes in the brain, by taking too much LSD, acid,
          mushrooms
          > or never using the organ of the brain for moral insight, moral
          > imagination, moral intuition and moral technique, cripples the
          region
          > where the I Am uses Thinking as a method to reconnect CONSCIOUSLY
          to
          > the the spiritual world.
          >
          > Perseus cuts off the Summer head of ancient atavistic clairvoyance,
          > but it is a deed each person must do for themselves in order to
          find
          > the I AM and the thinking organ for the perecption of thoughts and
          > ideas. See the Philosophy of Freedom.
        • holderlin66
          Seven times she passes through a gate and seven times she abandons an implement of her power. dottie zold wrote: Mother and this is where John needed to go:
          Message 4 of 10 , Jun 19, 2004
            "Seven times she passes through a gate and seven times she abandons
            an implement of her power."

            dottie zold wrote:

            "Mother and this is where
            John needed to go: to the Mothers. The dance performed by Salome I
            have as the reenactment of the seven veils being lifted and seven
            things of the worldly aspect left behind at each interval. Her name
            means 'peace' and she was with Him through out. The beheading was for
            the glory of God and the transformation from one epoch possibility to
            the next."

            Bradford comments;

            Midsummer is an expansion of the soul and a lifting up into the wide
            reaches of space, nature, joy, celebration, picnic, barbecue, and,
            seasonally, only after August and September comes the descent of
            Inanna, the descent of the soul. The Soul Calendar and general
            humanity in the Northern Hemisphere begin their descent after summer
            is over. The leaves begin to fall and it becomes colder and the light
            no longer draws us out. In fact, opposite to the Northern Hemisphere,
            at this exact moment of our expansion, the Southern Hemisphere would
            be heading for the descent, autumn etc. The descent of Inanna through
            seven highly interesting experiences, are part of the 7 veils
            experience and the removing of the seven veils is a mystery that
            can't be just lightly spoken of.

            The Michael School can follow with interest how seduction and Salome
            demanded a spoiled, astral and petulant gift, The head of John the
            Baptist on a silver charger. We can see and feel the sexual
            pedophillia and Luciferic forces in Herod. We need to know that
            Christ was tossed between Luciferic Herod, with all the sub
            infections of soul; to Caiaphas, the cunning Ahrimanic.

            We can, by looking into how Christ took the pre-configured destiny
            and karma of John and turned it to the good of the disciples, used
            the terrible request of Salome, for the good. You see, John had cut
            off the heads of about 400 priests of Baal in a previous incarnation.
            The karma would chase him and catch up to him as the very decayed
            Luciferic astral forces of his people, in Herod, finally found a
            responsive chord in envy, jealousy and decadence, in the inbred
            family values, Jonn Benet, decayed astral values of the incest ridden
            desires of Salome. We are in decadent Lucifer land with this
            Midsummer warning of beheading.

            So, yes, Dottie, there is always good to come of something, and thank
            heavens that at that very actual historical instant the adjuster of
            cosmic Karma happened to be johnny on the spot, when St. John was
            beheaded. However this does not remove the level of discernment or
            the weight of free deeds, foul deeds, murder, torture and human sin
            and error from the books, just because it all worked out in the end
            as you have said. This is not the way we slide by grasping Freedom,
            Karma and intuition, in moral deeds, moral intuition and moral
            technique, no we study the depth of the mystery with close
            discernment. We are students of these mighty forces, but Christ was
            the actual Master of these forces and he was tossed back and forth
            between Ahrimanic Caiaphas and Luciferic Herod. But John the Baptist
            mitigated and paid for a Luciferic aspect of his people. We have to
            struggle with preventive and corrective EcoChristology in our own
            souls education.

            " [1]Inanna dons a crown, representing intellectual functioning, the
            power of "being in her head".

            [2] She places a circle of beads around her neck. The circle is a
            symbol of eternity and of the womb--she claims the power of eternal
            creativity.

            [3] She fastens sparkling gems to her chest, pretty, "nice", positive
            feelings to protect her from the underworld.

            [4] She places a gold ring around her wrist, a symbol of her power to
            act.

            [5] She takes her lapis measuring rod in her hand, her critical
            ability to judge.

            [6] She armors herself with a breastplate for protection, and covers
            herself with a royal robe. The armor is whatever psychic defenses and
            walls a person casts up to protect themselves from others.

            [7] The royal robes make a nice analogy with the persona, the ability
            to look good for others."

            Bradford continues;

            There is a stuning reality that Spiritual Science, Initiation Science
            brings to our 21st Century. Christ went down the same route that
            Inanna went down but what a difference an actual Advanced Human
            profiled, human clothed Elohim is, to the entire Karma of the
            seething underworld. After Good Friday, Christ on Saturn's day,
            descended to the underworld. Christ grasped the tangled webs of
            karmic error, which really knot up the entire planetary body, and
            Christ took the reins and became the Chariot Driver as the Lord of
            Karma within the mighty Initiation School of Earthly Destiny.

            Christ recovered the garments Inanna had shed. But this is no free
            ride, no free lunch anymore. Since Spiritual Science has crashed into
            the foundations of the world, the whole range of vision, just like
            the church, suffers from obsolete thinking. Obsolete education and
            obsolete psychology, Spiritual Science has knocked these old ideas
            off their hinges.

            Initiation Science now offers the I AM tools what just weren't there,
            until the Conceptual Egg of Spiritual Science landed in our midst
            through Steiner. Understanding the Gods, demons, Jinn, Angels,
            reincarnation, disease, life and death, were reordered and
            reconfigured for the special region of our current Consciousness Soul
            thinking phase. We were updated on the current Christ patterns,
            rhythms and introduced to an Archai and let in on the secret of how
            the gods have handed weighty realities over to human hearts. Our
            hearts remain unable to meet the challenge placed before us because
            of retarded an obsolete thought constructs. We oooo and ahhhh over
            James Hillman and Joseph Campbell, but most souls run screaming from
            Dr. Steiner, because he is the real deal.

            http://www.jelder.com/mythology/inanna.html

            "At the beginning of the myth, Inanna has been prefigured to descend
            into the underworld. It has already been named as her destiny by
            Enki. Inanna, as Queen of Heaven and Earth, represents the ego, the
            conscious ruler of the known psyche. And yet, it has been
            foreordained that she must experience the depths, that the underworld
            awaits her.

            A periodic lowering of the mood is a natural part of human existence.
            Life is full of cycles, and human affect is not immune from them. The
            healthy course is for people to experience a lowering of mood, a
            turning inward, a contacting of unconscious depths, and then to
            return to "normal" functioning. A depressed person, however, has lost
            the ability to return, and feels trapped in his own personal kur.

            The prophesied result of Inanna's journey through the netherworld is
            that she will gain Truth and the Art of Lovemaking. In one
            translation, Inanna is frequently referred to as "the pure Inanna"
            (Henderson & Oakes). In her purity, she is a child of light, lacking
            the experience of darkness. She has no Truth, only naiveté. Without
            the knowledge of their own unconscious depths, a person cannot be an
            intimate lover.

            Real love, empowering intimacy, can exist only between people who
            have each experienced their own depths and discovered that in the
            depths, they each partake of the same material. This experience makes
            a true sharing possible. Thus, descent is a prerequisite to mastering
            the "Art of Lovemaking".

            The descent begins when Inanna hears the moans of her sister,
            Ereshkigal, the Queen of the Underworld. The conscious mind hears
            something stirring, something related but rejected, consigned to the
            darkness. Ereshkigal is the shadow consciousness, that repository of
            everything rejected by the ego.

            But the shadow is more than just a collection of ego jetsam--it also
            includes "the insufficiently developed functions and the contents of
            the personal unconscious" (Jung, 1953, p. 66, note 5). The "pure" ego
            must be reunited with the undiscovered and rejected psychic contents
            in order for integration to occur. Enthralled, the ego must descend,
            must harken unto the cries, abandoning everything in this quest,
            risking all.

            The descent is not made naked, however. The ego insists on defending
            itself with all its conscious powers. Inanna dons a crown,
            representing intellectual functioning, the power of "being in her
            head". She places a circle of beads around her neck. The circle is a
            symbol of eternity and of the womb--she claims the power of eternal
            creativity. She fastens sparkling gems to her chest, pretty, "nice",
            positive feelings to protect her from the underworld. She places a
            gold ring around her wrist, a symbol of her power to act. She takes
            her lapis measuring rod in her hand, her critical ability to judge.
            She armors herself with a breastplate for protection, and covers
            herself with a royal robe. The armor is whatever psychic defenses and
            walls a person casts up to protect themselves from others. The royal
            robes make a nice analogy with the persona, the ability to look good
            for others.

            Thus arrayed, she set out for the depths.

            The meeting with oneself is, at first, the meeting with one's own
            shadow. The shadow is a tight passage, a narrow door, whose painful
            constriction no one is spared who goes down to the deep well. (Jung,
            1969, p. 21)

            At first, Inanna cannot gain admission to the underworld. When the
            gatekeeper finally allows her to enter, he narrows the gates so that
            she must abandon all that she had depended upon for her safe journey
            into the underworld. At each gate she can barely squeeze through, it
            is almost as if she is repeating a birth process.

            Seven times she passes through a gate and seven times she abandons an
            implement of her power.

            In descending into the depths, the weapons of consciousness become
            impediments. The work of descent cannot be done by the well
            fortified, but only by the vulnerable, by the helpless and
            disempowered.

            [ IS THAT STILL THE CASE TODAY?]

            At the first gate, she must leave her intellectualizing behind. At
            the second gate, she must quit relying on her cleverness and
            creativity. At the third gate, her niceness must be surrendered. At
            the fourth gate, her armor; at the fifth, her ability to do; at the
            sixth, her critical judgement; and at the final gate, her persona is
            stripped away from her. She enters the underworld naked and helpless
            as the day she was born.

            [ ARE THESE INITIATION MODELS THE SAME TODAY?]

            In this vulnerable state, she faces her sister, her shadow self.
            Unprotected in the depths, she finds herself judged and crucified,
            left putrifying hanging from the wall. This is the depths of
            depression. Self judgement and despair, everything turns to shit.
            Alone and in the darkness, Inanna decomposes. The depressed person is
            often left with a sense of hopelessness, feeling as if nothing they
            can do will alleviate their misery. They can only hang around in
            their own private hell and rot.

            [IS IT POSSIBLE TO FIX, ADJUST AND PREPARE SOULS WITH EDUCATION TODAY
            SO THAT THEY DON'T END UP IN ANDREA YATES OR 'WHAT DREAMS MAY COME"
            NIGHTMARE?]

            All is not lost, however, for Inanna's faithful servant seeks help.
            In depression, the person does not cease functioning. The client's
            mood is lowered, but they still live, still remaining conscious.
            Ninshubur, Inanna's servant, is that remaining consciousness, the
            part of the client who is willing to seek help, to take some action,
            no matter how small, to solve the problem.

            Ninshubur first goes to the Sun God, but gets no help. Power and
            enlightenment are not what will rescue the descended consciousness.
            Then, Ninshubur goes to the Moon God, and gets no help. Neither
            mystery nor emotion, nor even the personal unconscious can solve the
            situation. Finally, Ninshubur goes to Enki, God of Wisdom and the
            Waters.

            Enki is troubled, but he has a solution. He scrapes the dirt from
            under his fingernails and creates from it two genderless beings to
            solve the problem. The solution to depression lies not in great
            intellectual power, nor in great emotional power. It comes from
            Wisdom, which encompasses all of the psychological functions.

            Enki takes action--and he is a God of action; note the dirt under his
            fingernails. He is also the God who predicted, who arranged for this
            situation. Wisdom accepts the descent into darkness, knows that as
            unpleasant as it may be, it is necessary for completion of growth.

            [CERTAINLY THIS APPLIES TO THE FREE DEED OF CHRIST AS WELL]

            When the beings the Enki created arrive in the underworld, they do
            not confront Ereshkigal in a power struggle for Inanna. Instead, they
            listen to her moans. They hear her pain and they name it back to her.
            This is the action of Wisdom. Depression begins to heal when the
            hidden pain is named and honored.

            This continues until Ereshkigal feels relief. She offers the
            creatures anything they desire, and they request Inanna's corpse.
            They revive it, and she returns to be Queen of Heaven and Earth. No
            longer is she pure delightful lightness, for she now knows pain and
            darkness. She has experienced them for herself. The Wisdom which
            originally orchestrated this descent into the underworld has also
            arranged her return.

            After she made the passage through the narrow doors, Inanna
            encountered uncertainties for which she had no preparation. All her
            tools had been stripped from her. But Enki, the power of Wisdom and
            the ability to "go with the flow", brought her through."

            Bradford concludes;

            Now the above represents a modern psychological model of a soul
            quest, not only underway by Dottie, but tagged onto Kundry and the
            reincarnation and destiny of the Grail and Arthur texts. The above
            represents some of Jungian and modern psychological efforts, which by
            understanding something real in terms of Andrea Yates or real in
            terms of how the seven fold model of the human being is structured,
            prepares the ground for attaining to new self corrective tools for
            firmer self knowledge.

            These self corrective tools are dynamically grasped when from
            childhood to adulthood souls are woven with real patterns internally
            correct patterns and theories. The rainbow, the 7 days of the week,
            the meanings and myths working on sevens, Music, painting, and all
            these carried through education allow one to have the tools to face
            oneself later in life. The ancient stories and sagas and myths of
            different cultures give a steady elasticity to unfolding
            consciousness and enable us to meet deeper crisis regions of the soul.

            Dottie I know has a focused set of issues and these issues are part
            of the real Initiation Science. But the model, if it be Kundry,
            Richard Wagner's Parsifal, Arthurian Grail tales, Salome and the
            historical beheading of John the Baptist or the understanding of
            Lazarus/John; Consciousness Soul hovering over the disciples in the
            floating, beheaded John, and the Initiated Lazarus with his head on
            the breast of Christ at the Last Supper, all, all, did you hear me,
            all build a deeper and more elastic structure of how to enter
            psychology and esoteric study.

            So now look carefully at the focus. Why do we see painters showing
            how Lazarus/John has his head leaning directly on the breast of
            Christ? Can you see more deeply into the union of the Beheaded John
            the Baptist and the soothing link between Angel - He who was born,
            suckled the breast and was day cared for by Mary, John and Jesus.
            Jesus quietly holding the bond between Lazarus and the invisible John
            Gospel.

            I still don't think we understand it enough. Why? Because lovers,
            soul mates and meeting where two are gathered togeether and there am
            I in the midst of them, suddenly we see two biographies linked with
            John and Lazarus and we must say. JOhn was the Angel of his people,
            Elias, going way back.. and Lazarus.. hmm there is an amazing bond
            where two wide soul patterns crossed through the Christ. Imagine, two
            individuals passing through the Christ Heart and coming out the other
            side as Novalis and Christian Rosenkreuz.

            We really barely think at all do we?
          • dottie zold
            ... Well, Bradford, it seems you assume the seediness of the deeds when I do not believe they were. I think the story is confused and distorted again to make
            Message 5 of 10 , Jun 19, 2004
              > So, yes, Dottie, there is always good to come of
              > something, and thank
              > heavens that at that very actual historical instant
              > the adjuster of
              > cosmic Karma happened to be johnny on the spot, when
              > St. John was
              > beheaded. However this does not remove the level of
              > discernment or
              > the weight of free deeds, foul deeds, murder,
              > torture and human sin
              > and error from the books, just because it all worked
              > out in the end
              > as you have said. This is not the way we slide by
              > grasping Freedom,
              > Karma and intuition, in moral deeds, moral intuition
              > and moral
              > technique, no we study the depth of the mystery with
              > close
              > discernment.

              Well, Bradford, it seems you assume the seediness of
              the deeds when I do not believe they were. I think the
              story is confused and distorted again to make the
              female the meany when indeed this was not the truth.
              My thoughts have nothing to do with 'things turned out
              alright in the end' rather they have to do with the
              point that Salome is one of Jesus followers to the
              end. This story we have is a distortion and the one
              you have related is just an echo of this distortion.
              If we keep just reporting on these specific words
              without any enlightment than of course we will always
              come out with what it 'looks' like. THere is no other
              way this could have happened. And it is unto the
              Mothers where death and rebirth occur in an instant.

              Bradford:
              > " [1]Inanna dons a crown, representing intellectual
              > functioning, the
              > power of "being in her head".
              >
              > [2] She places a circle of beads around her neck.
              > The circle is a
              > symbol of eternity and of the womb--she claims the
              > power of eternal
              > creativity.
              >
              > [3] She fastens sparkling gems to her chest, pretty,
              > "nice", positive
              > feelings to protect her from the underworld.
              >
              > [4] She places a gold ring around her wrist, a
              > symbol of her power to
              > act.
              >
              > [5] She takes her lapis measuring rod in her hand,
              > her critical
              > ability to judge.
              >
              > [6] She armors herself with a breastplate for
              > protection, and covers
              > herself with a royal robe. The armor is whatever
              > psychic defenses and
              > walls a person casts up to protect themselves from
              > others.
              >
              > [7] The royal robes make a nice analogy with the
              > persona, the ability
              > to look good for others."

              Bradford, where did you get these specific gate steps.
              Mine are pretty different than yours. I mean extremely
              different than yours. Please site your resources.

              Bradford:
              > > Christ recovered the garments Inanna had shed.

              What do you mean by this? Have you studied what
              happens on the way down. I don't think Christ had
              anything to give up. John had to give all this up but
              Christ, well at least it would seem to me, would not
              be checked, it would be a clear passage.

              Dottie










              __________________________________
              Do you Yahoo!?
              New and Improved Yahoo! Mail - 100MB free storage!
              http://promotions.yahoo.com/new_mail
            • holderlin66
              dottie zold wrote: Salome is one of Jesus followers to the end. This story we have is a distortion and the one you have related is just an echo of this
              Message 6 of 10 , Jun 19, 2004
                dottie zold wrote:

                "Salome is one of Jesus followers to the
                end. This story we have is a distortion and the one
                you have related is just an echo of this distortion.
                If we keep just reporting on these specific words
                without any enlightment than of course we will always
                come out with what it 'looks' like. THere is no other
                way this could have happened."

                No comment;

                "Salome was the name of one of the women present at the tomb of
                Christ on Easter morning according to Saint Mark's Gospel. It is also
                traditionally given as the name of the girl who danced for Herod and
                then requested Saint John the Baptist's head on a platter. I have two
                questions: Where do we get this name for the dancer, as she is never
                named in scripture? Is this one and the same person or are they two
                different people with the same name merely by coincidence?

                Answers
                1- name of the daughter of herodias and herod the great. she danced
                in presence of herod . recieved as a price the head of john de
                baptist.
                2-mother of james and john the evangelist, present at the crcifixion
                and at the tomb on Easter morning. aunt of Jesus.

                they are two different women. in the first case the gospels don't
                mention her name but the jewish historian josephus does."
              • dottie zold
                Dear Bradford, If we are using Josephus s book we might want to consider a work of fiction that also used this book for much of her study on Magdalene; The
                Message 7 of 10 , Jun 20, 2004
                  Dear Bradford,

                  If we are using Josephus's book we might want to consider a work of
                  fiction that also used this book for much of her study on Magdalene;
                  The Moon Under Her Feet'.

                  I don't subscribe to all the book at being a true rendition however
                  there are jewels in this midrash, I will call it. And what is really
                  interesting as I was rereading it today was the point that John is
                  beheaded against the wishes of the women but and here it comes 'his
                  head was thrown at the feet of the Magdalene' as her payment for
                  embarrassing Herod. The point for me in this little scene is that at
                  the time of the beheading we have the Magdalene going through the
                  ritual of Inanna; going down to the Mothers. Unbelievable.
                  Unbelievable how this moment appears in the book at the exact timing
                  of the beheading.

                  So, in this book we have Magdalene as the mother and Salome as the
                  daughter and the dance is to request something from Herod that would
                  release Magdalene from his clutches. Looking at the idea that this
                  name does not come by accident we have to look at the meaning which
                  is 'Peace'. How is it that 'Peace' is the one who beheaded John the
                  Baptist and was also there at the cruxifiction? And She is also there
                  at the ressurection as Jesus is always leaving us with his 'Peace'.
                  I've heard tell that She was also at the birth. Hmm.

                  I think they are one and the same person. I am not sure but it feels
                  that way to me. This story about the Mother asking for the head is
                  not the seedy story that is gleamed from unthinking minds rather it
                  speaks to a higher mystery in where John had to decrease and this was
                  said before he was beheaded.

                  I will share the descent in another post once I can get it all in one
                  piece.

                  d


                  Bradford:

                  > "Salome was the name of one of the women present at the tomb of
                  > Christ on Easter morning according to Saint Mark's Gospel. It is
                  also
                  > traditionally given as the name of the girl who danced for Herod
                  and
                  > then requested Saint John the Baptist's head on a platter. I have
                  two
                  > questions: Where do we get this name for the dancer, as she is
                  never
                  > named in scripture? Is this one and the same person or are they two
                  > different people with the same name merely by coincidence?
                  >
                  > Answers
                  > 1- name of the daughter of herodias and herod the great. she danced
                  > in presence of herod . recieved as a price the head of john de
                  > baptist.
                  > 2-mother of james and john the evangelist, present at the
                  crcifixion
                  > and at the tomb on Easter morning. aunt of Jesus.
                  >
                  > they are two different women. in the first case the gospels don't
                  > mention her name but the jewish historian josephus does."
                • dottie zold
                  Dottie: So, in this book we have Magdalene as the mother and Salome as the ... would ... there ... You know, I have to say, I am really beginning to respect my
                  Message 8 of 10 , Jun 20, 2004
                    Dottie:
                    So, in this book we have Magdalene as the mother and Salome as the
                    > daughter and the dance is to request something from Herod that
                    would
                    > release Magdalene from his clutches. Looking at the idea that this
                    > name does not come by accident we have to look at the meaning which
                    > is 'Peace'. How is it that 'Peace' is the one who beheaded John the
                    > Baptist and was also there at the cruxifiction? And She is also
                    there
                    > at the ressurection as Jesus is always leaving us with his 'Peace'.
                    > I've heard tell that She was also at the birth. Hmm.

                    You know, I have to say, I am really beginning to respect my
                    intuitions and inspirations. Just thinking on how a few years back I
                    was on the path of Magdalene and now the Sophia and the
                    Anthroposophia I am finding it is all for some reason. Even getting
                    my butt kicked about it just forced me to keep looking for other
                    places where She shows up. The reason I say this is looking at the
                    above paragraph from The Moon Under Her Feet I am stunned at
                    realizing the connection once again of John and Magdalene sacraficed
                    at the same moment. I mean she is going down to the Mothers as John
                    is beheaded. She must rise when He goes down and he then becomes her
                    ransom in a way as one must take the place in order for the re-
                    ascencion. And I find this in John 11.

                    I get I talk about things differently than the Doctors students but
                    in the end I do believe it will come out that this moment in time
                    with the 'Lazarus' is not what it appears to be. I am in such a funk
                    when I read Danny and Bradfords points about this rising as John and
                    Lazarus. I have never had anything feel so wrong as I do this point.
                    There is a crucial piece missing and it has to do with the Magdalene.
                    I mean crucial and it is unto the understanding of the Sophia.

                    I can think of only two points this can come to: either it was
                    Magdalene that was raised as the new man or it is that Magdalene is
                    the step mother of Jesus. And if Magdalene is the step mother of
                    Jesus than we can allow something of this John Lazarus rising as a
                    physical human being. In all the inner research and the outer it
                    really keeps coming back to these two possibilities.

                    d
                  • Tarjei Straume
                    ... I m running four months behind on the archive backups at uncletaz.com, and the threads I m currently formatting and interlinking are like a giant puzzle
                    Message 9 of 10 , Jun 23, 2004
                      At 20:35 18.06.2004, Mike wrote:

                      >Hey all,
                      >
                      >I hope not to bore you all to death, but our former anti-Steiner guest,
                      >and polemic propaganda game-show host, is up on the podium again over on
                      >the critics list,

                      I'm running four months behind on the archive backups at uncletaz.com, and
                      the threads I'm currently formatting and interlinking are like a giant
                      puzzle with thousands and thousands of pieces in different sizes. Peter
                      Staudenmaier juggled his multiple simultaneous threads with a special style
                      of snipping that is very challenging to follow up. He has left us with some
                      unforgettable PS quotes, however, that I'd like to share:

                      **************************************************************
                      (March 13)

                      Dottie:
                      "Again Peter, you may not feel the love on this list but it is there."

                      Peter:
                      "Thanks, but no thanks. I didn't come here for love, I came here to talk
                      about Steiner's racial and ethnic doctrines."

                      **************************************************************
                      Tarjei:
                      A person's ethnicity can often be guessed by observing physiological
                      characteristics. If you think that's racist, you have stretched the
                      definition considerably.

                      Peter:
                      No, observing physical characteristics is not racist. Attributing spiritual
                      significance to them often is.

                      <snip>

                      Tarjei:
                      If human beings evolve and human races exist, human races evolve too.

                      Peter:
                      But they don't evolve according to spiritual criteria.

                      **************************************************************
                      Upon re-reading this, I discovered that PS actually admits here that the
                      allegation of racism is made against anthroposophy because the critics find
                      *anthroposophical spirituality* offensive. In other words, if anthroposophy
                      were a materialistic philosophy (or a traditional religious one perhaps),
                      we wouldn't have all this talk of racism, anti-Semitism, Nazism and
                      "Steiner equals Hitler" crap hurled at us ad nauseum from those quarters.

                      I'll leave you with a pearl from Dottie - yeah, Dottie is like a Joan of
                      Arc in action, and sometimes she throws in something so hilarious I just
                      fall off my chair. (Guess what PS is full of? Try again! And again!)

                      Check this out:

                      **************************************************************
                      (March 14)

                      Peter:
                      "No, assimilationist antisemitism is very different from exterminationist
                      antisemitism."

                      Dottie:
                      Staudenmaier, who the hell do you think you are fooling with all this
                      philosemetic, antisemitic, assimilation philo semitic and now a new one
                      exterminationist antisemitic none sense....whew........ ......as if they
                      really mean something outside your own brain. All these words to stop you
                      from feeling your everyday life. What a waste.

                      I really have to find another phrase other than you are so full of shit
                      because I would be embarrassed if Eloise showed up here and found me to be
                      talking in such a manner....... but saying you are full of baloney just
                      doesn't feel right.............maybe, maybe, yes, I know, I could say
                      'Peter, you are so full of peanut butter....yes, that is a good one.
                      :) Dottie"

                      **************************************************************

                      Cheers,


                      Tarjei
                      http://uncletaz.com/
                    • holderlin66
                      http://www.smirkingchimp.com/print.php?sid=16840 How can we not imagine someone we love in the hands of these madmen? How can we not picture our husbands or
                      Message 10 of 10 , Jul 3, 2004
                        http://www.smirkingchimp.com/print.php?sid=16840

                        "How can we not imagine someone we love in the hands of these
                        madmen? How can we not picture our husbands or wives, sons or
                        daughters, trembling and crying and pleading and weeping and
                        suffering such hideous psychological, and then physical, pain?

                        When I think of these beheadings my hands clench and unclench, my
                        teeth grind, and my brain spins around in circles. I want to
                        scream "Stop it!" at the top of my lungs - like a kindly
                        kindergarten teacher pushed over the edge by her charges' smirking
                        bad behavior. Stop it! Stop it! Stop it! These beheadings make me
                        feel as though our most precious possession, our civilization, is
                        under direct attack.

                        But beheadings have a long history, in the West as in the East, and
                        not just in the name of terrorism. There are at least two famous
                        beheadings in the Bible. David cut off Goliath's head after he was
                        dead, and Herod had John the Baptist's head cut off while he was
                        still alive.

                        Man's inhumanity doesn't stop with the Bible. The guillotine,
                        created to be a "humane" method of execution, comes to mind. So does
                        the Coliseum of ancient Rome, the Inquisition, Vlad the Impaler, and
                        the Tower of London. Remember Mary, Queen of Scots?

                        And today we have Saudi Arabia, which has already given us Osama bin
                        Laden, al-Qaida and 9/11. On Fridays there, they cut off the hands
                        and feet of thieves and the heads of murderers, homosexuals and
                        those who practice "witchcraft," among other offenses. According to
                        Amnesty International, the Saudis have executed 1,409 men and women
                        between 1980 and November 2002, "and the real figure may be much
                        higher."

                        In Afghanistan, during the Taliban days, they held public beheadings
                        on Fridays in a stadium in Kabul. On an Islamic Web site called
                        Haimza, which claims it is "linking the Muslim community together on-
                        line," Dr. Abu Ameenah Bilal Philips explains why Friday is the
                        preferred day.

                        "We were instructed (by the Prophet) to carry out the cutting of
                        hands or heads, stoning people to death, lashing, etc. in public,
                        and the greatest gatherings of Muslims, excluding the two Eids and
                        Hajj, is on Fridays," he says. "It was the practice of the Prophet
                        to gather as many people from the community to witness the
                        implementation of the Islamic law."

                        Philips goes on to say that in Saudi Arabia, beheadings are a
                        deterrent to crime: "The number of murders which are committed in
                        Saudi Arabia in a year are less than the number of murders which are
                        committed in New York City in a week."

                        This is faulty reasoning. For the low crime rate in Saudi Arabia to
                        be attributable solely to the brutality of its justice system, you'd
                        have to first flood it with guns. Then see what happens.

                        The death penalty in any form is brutal, dehumanizing and
                        coarsening - look at our behavior at Abu Ghraib. It has proven so
                        unsuccessful as a deterrent against violent crime that most nations
                        have given it up.

                        Violence just breeds more violence. As a case in point, consider a
                        Reuters story out of Afghanistan last week: "Afghan soldiers
                        beheaded four Taliban fighters after guerrillas cut off the heads of
                        an Afghan interpreter for U.S.-led forces and an Afghan soldier."

                        Many Muslim leaders have suddenly become shocked, shocked, by the
                        recent terrorist beheadings. They fear a backlash, especially
                        against Muslims living in Europe.

                        According to a story last week in USA Today, Imam Mohamad Adam El-
                        Sheikh, co-founder and chief cleric at the Dar Al Hijrah mosque in
                        Falls Church, Va. says, "Beheadings are not mentioned in the Koran
                        at all. According to Islamic penal law, killers will be sentenced to
                        death, but the means of execution are not mentioned... Whoever did
                        (the beheadings), we don't condone this. They are not following
                        Islam. They are following their own whims."

                        Some suggest that terrorist beheadings are symbolic: the brutal
                        killing of one American is a symbol of killing all Americans.

                        "These radical Islamists see such acts as the ultimate symbols of
                        power over an enemy: horrific and utterly unambiguous examples of
                        ruthlessness," wrote Daniel J. Wakin in The New York Times last week.

                        Just after 9/11, we made jokes about bombing Afghanistan and Iraq
                        back to the Stone Age. Instead, it looks as if we just bombed
                        ourselves back there and took the whole world with us."
                      Your message has been successfully submitted and would be delivered to recipients shortly.