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Re: Moltke "initiated" WWI ?

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  • holderlin66
    holderlin wrote: Speculation that I have brought up on this list, that linked Wagner ... the ... potential ... is ... List location note 4109 Wagner, who
    Message 1 of 32 , Jun 1, 2004
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      holderlin wrote:

      "Speculation that I have brought up on this list, that linked
      > to Kaspar Hauser, also shows what could be the opposite side of
      > spectrum of Moltke. In Moltke we have someone taking credit for a
      > bunch of idiots who launched WWI. In Kaspar Hauser we have
      > credit for all that would have prevented WWI if Hauser, as Wagner
      > himself would have met Hauser and a different cultural life could
      > have arisen in Europe under different destiny conditions. Destiny
      > very peculiar. Moltke or Kaspar Hauser makes for interesting
      > speculation on the destiny of Europe.

      List location note 4109

      "Wagner, who wanted to prepare the soil for a new mental impulse by
      its artistic work, was surely the central shape under the "homeless
      souls". In the year 1851, when he worked on the draft ' Ring of the
      Nibelungen ', he hoped still that South Germany could become center
      of a new Mysterienkultur:

      Wagner states:

      "at the Rheine I break then a theatre open, and invite to large
      dramatic celebrations: after one year preparation I specify my whole
      work then in the course of four days. With him I give humans to the
      revolution then the meaning of this revolution to recognize after its
      noblest sense. This public will understand me; the current cannot do

      These "homeless souls" with their often tragic fates lived in the
      expectation of something large one, which could not become on earth
      reality at that time... At the beginning of of 1833 drove the
      20(year old) Richard Wagner from peppering castle to
      Bamberg; it heard its fate, heard of by nine months the older (nine
      months older than Wagner) Kaspar Hauser, on peculiar way deeply moved
      (Kaspar was murdered in the December of the same year 1833.)

      Kaspar Hauser later even imagined itself as "the child of Europe" on
      this journey to have seen. Something of the shape Kaspars flowed
      anyhow into Wagners conception of the parent less Parsifal, "pure
      gates",searching for Nut/ the mother.

      This strange fate led Wagner 1857 to Karlsruhe, where the 45 (the 45
      year old Kaspar Hauser would have been the one to meet Wagner)
      Kaspar could have received Wagner as a Grand Duke. Now however it was
      Grand Duchess Luise of Prussia, who required to review Wagner's
      works. The plan was discussed, ' Tristan and Isolde ' in
      Karlsruhe, "at the Rheine" to be specific. Here also Wagner's
      fruitful co-operation began with the extraordinary tenor Ludwig
      Schnorr of Carolsfeld. But the fate remained unfulfilled. Wagner
      unsatisfied left the city 1862, by two years later in Ludwig II.,
      the cousin of Kasparto find its largest sponsor. "

      Bradford comments;

      But had Wagner and Kaspar Hauser got together and had culture been
      warmed by the idealism of Goethe and the classic vision of Wagner
      the derailed disaster of WWI might have been defused. But would
      humanity have begun the difficult climb upwards to encounter not
      only the mystery of the Christ Being and human Karma and
      Reincarnation but also the facts that the I Am is surrounded by
      Beings that we, as humans, must learn to grasp as to what hypocrisy
      really is? We left Nietzsche standing alone with spider venom of
      hypocrisy infecting his very soul to the core. We have never
      understood that a vast Michael Event had happened on the otherside
      of the Threshold and thereby the incarnation coming and the world of
      the dead were bringing whole new ideals. Because of many
      catastrophic events all former thought forms were forced to
      rediscover the I Am as a Fact not a theory. This remains humanities
      prime issue and failure. We continue to think that our brain is the
      source of our I Am. That clever thinking is good I Am juice. That we
      dispose of this body and destiny and disappear into christian or a
      dark void of hypocrisy. Here it still stands, failed and unlearned
      and remaining the crown lie of higher education taught to our
    • Gisele
      Tarjei Straume wrote: Another clown is back with his one-track-mind about RS being ignorant about who was responsible for the outbreak of WW I and about
      Message 32 of 32 , Oct 8, 2004
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        Tarjei Straume  wrote:

        Another clown is back with his one-track-mind about RS being ignorant about
        who was responsible for the outbreak of WW I and about Andrea and myself
        lying about his own posts.

        I an AT message dated Tuesday, 05 Oct 2004, Eric told the following story
        about the Goethanum and Anthroposophy Tomorrow:


        "No wonder when I called the Goetheanum office ten minutes ago and after
        being handed around twice, someone told me this list is considered by
        Anthroposophists to be one for "crackpots" ! "

        Thank you for letting us know what attracts you to this group. It takes one
        to know one, obviously. But are you sure they didn't call *you* a crackpot
        after handing you around twice as you say, and that you imagined they were
        talking about someone else?

        Gisele, didn't you visit the Goethanum right after that post was made and
        expose the ramblings of this space cadet?

        ~~~~Yeah, I felt almost embarrassed by the looks they gave me like:"What is she on about?" - they had no idea of what Eric was talking about, never heard of this list either...


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