Loading ...
Sorry, an error occurred while loading the content.

Moltke "initiated" WWI ?

Expand Messages
  • holderlin66
    Eric wrote; I rather say we should let the evidence take us wherever it takes us, and avoid to many speculations about the rest. Except when we create art or
    Message 1 of 32 , Jun 1, 2004
    • 0 Attachment
      Eric wrote;

      "I rather say we should let the evidence take us wherever it takes
      us, and avoid to many speculations about the rest. Except when we
      create art or write a novel, a play, and so on.

      So also I see Steiner as a very talented artist and philosopher
      (plus an honest and hardworking idealist I should ad) , but not a
      supernatural prophet, pardon if I say so.

      But to come back to the subject in this case, for example there
      simple was no `conspiracy' to do Germany in, or that this war was
      planned by the British (forget the "Ahrimanic Woodrow Wilson and
      House" as Anthroposphists will claim) that is revisionism I would
      say. For a good study of the difference between these two, read
      about one example when the "relativity" of "facts" or not
      in `History on Trial' around five years ago for example:"

      Bradford; where evidence takes us;

      Eric, I understand you are an educated person. I bet you can feel my
      barbs and hackles rising. Well I not only enjoy research and history
      and new ideas emerging, but I also admire actual history. Presently,
      with your current scorn for spiritual research into history and the
      Beings that interfere or help in human history, we are left with
      table scraps and dried out Dialectical fables without a moral and
      without a root ideology. Just so much abstract crap bouncing off
      abstract crap and no Symptomology of motive to observe. The root of
      most of the struggle in the previous century was centered around
      blundering about without faculties of deeper recognition.

      Let us say that Goethe and Novalis certainly had no idea who each
      other were, but they liked each other. Schiller and Goethe didn't
      know who they were, but they liked each other as well. Suddenly, and
      without warning an historian of the I AM of advanced human
      development wades into history, very quietly and hidden connections
      suddenly snap into focus. Mind you startling concepts of reality
      have not trickled down to your level yet, too bad.

      Naturally at this point cult weapons are drawn by those who distrust
      mysticism and occultism and your usual educated denial that humans,
      any human being can attain to a schooling of higher insight without
      being granted permission by historians and researchers like
      yourself, charges those who have studied the Ahrimanic question
      carefully, as suspects of Free Mason hypnotic magik spells. A whole
      host of robust intellectual soul wasps are let loose out of the
      hornets nest and anyone who pretends to know, see and understand
      things other than what is presented by sincere clueless historians
      are mocked at and called quacks.

      One could easily draw a tight bulls-eye on Bush's Premptive strke
      Imperialistic War Mongering and the Strike first Moltke paradigm you
      have presented and really get down to some interesting historical
      comparisons. It took a number of idiots to start WWI and it took a
      few Neocon Idiots to start this new 21st century hyped detour, War
      on Iraq and Preemptive permission for a Project for a New American
      Century is like a legalized Moltke.

      All the Presidents Men are still all the idiots who drink from the
      same historical foul well that you are drinking from are they not?
      Drips and drabs of squeaked out new angles on worn out old ideas?
      The worse thing is that you blunder up to this site firing your
      pistols at Dr. Steiner claiming, that with all your incredible
      study, you found this man to be a nice idealist. I find you an
      unenriched and uneducated baby thinker in short pants and sucking
      your thumb. Okay so your merely an Intellectual soul who has failed
      to find out what startling facts mean.

      Don't expect to have the same ole, same ole history lessons after
      the Awakening of the research of humanity and the I AM and the
      grounding of Occult Science and Outline into human history that
      Steiner offered to the world. Don't expect to have the usual Jesus
      stories and good and evil fairy tales mouthed around here. These
      fairy tales on human biography and history have been given such an
      enormous shot in the arm that to be presented proudly with your rich
      assessment of startling facts only means that you haven't ever
      encountered real earth shattering, startling facts.

      Rudolf of Austria

      "Rudolf became increasingly frustrated and cynical. Rudolf had long
      been fascinated by death. On his desk he kept a revolver with a
      human skull together. Like his mother he feared the heritage of his
      Wittelsbach blood and the mental instability of that family. In the
      year preceding his death, many noticed the deterioration of his
      moods and appearance.

      The Tragedy of Mayerling

      "...but he did have feelings for her and he was touched by her
      boundless love for him. Above all, he had found someone who was
      prepared to accompany him in death. The reasons that drove the Crown
      Prince to suicide, remain the true mystery of Mayerling to this day.

      On the 30th January, 1889, the dead bodies of Rudolf and Mary
      Vetsera were found in the hunting lodge of Mayerling. ..the wildest
      of rumours and speculations circulating about the Crown Prince's
      death. Everything from heart attack, poison, murder, political
      revenge to a suicide pact made the rounds! The majority of the known
      evidence, however, points to suicide."


      "Steiner traces the lives of Emerson, going back to Tacitus, a
      historian in Roman times. In his next incarnation he appears as
      Countess Mathilde...

      Another example he gives is of Crown Prince Rudolf, a brilliant
      personality due to ascend the Throne of Austria, who commits suicide
      in the prime of his life. Impossible to understand looking at his
      one life, but when one discovers that Rudolf is the reincarnation of
      the profligate and heartless Roman emperor Nero, the mystery

      [page 78] But these things are merely the consequences of the soul's
      endeavour as it were to direct against itself all the arrows which
      in the past had been directed to the world. And then, when we have
      insight into these relationships, we perceive the unfolding of an
      overwhelming tragedy, but for all that a righteous, just tragedy.
      The two pictures are co-ordinated.

      Steiner is led to finding the connection between Rudolf and Nero by
      his friend, Schrör, who blurted out the word, "Nero!" when Steiner
      visited him shortly after the suicide was reported. Steiner says
      that he had learned to pay special attention to Schrör, especially
      when things he said things for no apparent reason, as if they had
      come to him "out of the blue." It occurs to me that when ideas come
      to each of us out of the blue, just like sunshine, they meet the
      very flowers of our humanity."

      Bradford continues where the facts lead;

      Speculation that I have brought up on this list, that linked Wagner
      to Kaspar Hauser, also shows what could be the opposite side of the
      spectrum of Moltke. In Moltke we have someone taking credit for a
      bunch of idiots who launched WWI. In Kaspar Hauser we have potential
      credit for all that would have prevented WWI if Hauser, as Wagner
      himself would have met Hauser and a different cultural life could
      have arisen in Europe under different destiny conditions. Destiny is
      very peculiar. Moltke or Kaspar Hauser makes for interesting
      speculation on the destiny of Europe.

      Strindberg and Nero would have tales to tell about a Europe that had
      at its core a mad emperor and Julia who had to put up with the
      nightmare of Nero and all that bad family blood, all gathered
      together in Europe again. Bergman does a movie of the Strindberg
      piece about Julia... But Rudolf of Austria is so depressed at
      finding himself at the center of cosmic historical events again,
      that he truly is a weak link in the whole matrix of Europe. If
      indeed as is suspected, many lodges had only faint or no capacity of
      understanding reincarnation and history, yet here comes this young
      man Steiner.

      Now the development of education is in question if humanity has the
      ability to attain to capacities that both Buddha and Steiner could
      manifest as higher human capacity. This means graduate school and
      PHD's suddenly have become as common and as meaningless in terms of
      higher education as the monumental stupidity of holding firmly
      either to the Big Bang theory or to Fundamentalism and the six days
      of creation theory. Spiritual Science is not based on opinion, and
      Christ is not a religion but a Fact of Earth evolution. I may enjoy
      the new speculation of history such as the comparison between Moltke
      and Kaspar Hauser, but my speculation is far closer to reality than
      the washed out and dried up opinions of intellectual soul flunkies
      who have failed to move upward to the Consciousness soul. Who have
      not yet been given permission to entertain really startling facts.
      Poor baby, you have my permission to entertain startling facts.

      Therefore Eric; Presenting your latest intellectual soul research is
      wonderful and I am proud of you. But don't come around here and
      start mouthing off on how you can push aside Ahrimanic forces as
      some petty rubbish connected to tarot cards and star gazing. You
      aren't even out of your diapers yet and your momma hasn't given you
      permission as a Free Spiritual Being to entertain true and startling
      facts. You might want to start there.
    • Gisele
      Tarjei Straume wrote: Another clown is back with his one-track-mind about RS being ignorant about who was responsible for the outbreak of WW I and about
      Message 32 of 32 , Oct 8, 2004
      • 0 Attachment

        Tarjei Straume  wrote:

        Another clown is back with his one-track-mind about RS being ignorant about
        who was responsible for the outbreak of WW I and about Andrea and myself
        lying about his own posts.

        I an AT message dated Tuesday, 05 Oct 2004, Eric told the following story
        about the Goethanum and Anthroposophy Tomorrow:


        "No wonder when I called the Goetheanum office ten minutes ago and after
        being handed around twice, someone told me this list is considered by
        Anthroposophists to be one for "crackpots" ! "

        Thank you for letting us know what attracts you to this group. It takes one
        to know one, obviously. But are you sure they didn't call *you* a crackpot
        after handing you around twice as you say, and that you imagined they were
        talking about someone else?

        Gisele, didn't you visit the Goethanum right after that post was made and
        expose the ramblings of this space cadet?

        ~~~~Yeah, I felt almost embarrassed by the looks they gave me like:"What is she on about?" - they had no idea of what Eric was talking about, never heard of this list either...


        ALL-NEW Yahoo! Messenger - all new features - even more fun!
      Your message has been successfully submitted and would be delivered to recipients shortly.